• Ban on smoking in public places + high cigarette tax
    197 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lankist;36427011](I was trying to get him to say hitler, damn it.)[/QUOTE] stalin
[QUOTE=squids_eye;36427201]The only reason I can think of to increase tax on cigarettes is to help offset the costs heavy smokers cause in healthcare. Obviously this doesn't apply to the US.[/QUOTE] The state still pays for healthcare if the person doesn't have money to pay their own way/doesn't have insurance. So there's still a heavy cost in the US.
If people wish to damage themselves they might as well pay an extra fee for it,it also benefits the treasury therefore slightly more money can be relocated to healthcare budget for example.
[QUOTE=znk666;36441468]If people wish to damage themselves they might as well pay an extra fee for it,it also benefits the treasury therefore slightly more money can be relocated to healthcare budget for example.[/QUOTE] How about a fat tax, then?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36426060][B]YES.[/B] Fucking transhumanism all the way. Fuck biology. Don't even keep the brain alive. Copy it, save it elsewhere and turn the shitty body into fertilizer. I will live [I]forever.[/I] [editline]21st June 2012[/editline] Kurzweil it up like a muh.[/QUOTE]Makes me wonder, though; would one's consciousness transfer over? I mean, it'd still behave exactly like you, but your own consciousness wouldn't transfer over, much like it wouldn't for a perfect clone i.e. you wouldn't see through your own eyes and those of the clone; it'd have it's own consciousness.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36441495]How about a fat tax, then?[/QUOTE] I never said i want to tax people that are unhealthy,i said i wish to tax things that make them unhealthy. [editline]22nd June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sgt Doom;36443282]Makes me wonder, though; would one's consciousness transfer over? I mean, it'd still behave exactly like you, but your own consciousness wouldn't transfer over, much like it wouldn't for a perfect clone i.e. you wouldn't see through your own eyes and those of the clone; it'd have it's own consciousness.[/QUOTE] Only if the brain would be transplanted into another body. But if your brain were to be just ''copied & pasted'',you would be two separate conscious beings.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36419087]I believe that smoking should be banned in public places, but not on private property. I do not want higher taxes in the hopes of "higher life expectancy". People have the right to do to their own bodies what they wish.[/QUOTE] Even at the expense of the health of others? This is why the "people should be free to do with their bodies as they wish." argument is bullshit, your not just affecting yourself when you smoke, but the people around you, what about people like me with asthma who CAN'T be around people who smoke, else I risk asthma attacks and such. Should one person's freedom come at the expense of others?
I'm in favor of smoking bans in public places, but "morality taxes" are stupid as shit because smokers tend to be on the lower end of the wealth spectrum and it just makes people who are addicted have a harder life. [editline]22nd June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=viperfan7;36444629]Even at the expense of the health of others? This is why the "people should be free to do with their bodies as they wish." argument is bullshit, your not just affecting yourself when you smoke, but the people around you, what about people like me with asthma who CAN'T be around people who smoke, else I risk asthma attacks and such. Should one person's freedom come at the expense of others?[/QUOTE] I have asthma, I hate smoke, I also have legs and a voice and can either move or ask a smoker to, if it's on private property then it should be the property owners decision.
[QUOTE=zakedodead;36444657]I'm in favor of smoking bans in public places, but "morality taxes" are stupid as shit because smokers tend to be on the lower end of the wealth spectrum and it just makes people who are addicted have a harder life. [editline]22nd June 2012[/editline] I have asthma, I hate smoke, I also have legs and a voice and can either move or ask a smoker to, if it's on private property then it should be the property owners decision.[/QUOTE] Hey, if its in your house I'm ok with it, hell, I'm ok with it if your walking down the street, but places like bars and restaurants, or any place where people come to socialise no.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36444939]Hey, if its in your house I'm ok with it, hell, I'm ok with it if your walking down the street, but places like bars and restaurants, or any place where people come to socialise no.[/QUOTE] why not? They're private businesses. If someone wants to run a restaurant that's smoker friendly, why should you have any capacity to dispute it besides not giving them your money?
Higher taxes benefit no one but the rich.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;36445077]why not? They're private businesses. If someone wants to run a restaurant that's smoker friendly, why should you have any capacity to dispute it besides not giving them your money?[/QUOTE] I'm going to use your own argument against you here and say that I have the right to go to a restaurant and be free of an obvious health hazard.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36445212]I'm going to use your own argument against you here and say that I have the right to go to a restaurant and be free of an obvious health hazard.[/QUOTE] At the end of the day it's the businesses decision as it's they're property and their service. If you don't like it you're free to take your business elsewhere.
[QUOTE=MachiniOs;36445247]At the end of the day it's the businesses decision as it's they're property and their service. If you don't like it you're free to take your business elsewhere.[/QUOTE] Its a health hazard in a location that serves food, want to know another health hazard that will shut down a restaurant? Cockroaches, so your saying that restaurants should be allowed to operate when they have a pest infestation as well?
Honestly if people think that you should receive a higher tax on things like cigarettes because you are damaging your self with them then why not have 'fat tax' like one mentioned above or make you pay higher taxes if you don't exercise 30 minutes everyday or if you spend too much time sitting on your ass in front of the computer all day. Hey have you guys heard of this little thing called liberty?
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36445275]Its a health hazard in a location that serves food, want to know another health hazard that will shut down a restaurant? Cockroaches, so your saying that restaurants should be allowed to operate when they have a pest infestation as well?[/QUOTE] How is it a serious health hazard? Are millions of people getting salmonella from cigarette smoke?
[QUOTE=MachiniOs;36445320]How is it a serious health hazard? Are millions of people getting salmonella from cigarette smoke?[/QUOTE] No, millions of people are getting cancer from cigarette smoke.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36445645]No, millions of people are getting cancer from cigarette smoke.[/QUOTE] There's usually smoke free areas in restaurant and then areas where you're allowed to smoke. Don't sit in the smoke area if you don't want to inhale smoke. Don't ban it everywhere simply because you don't like it.
[QUOTE=Robbi;36445684]There's usually smoke free areas in restaurant and then areas where you're allowed to smoke. Don't sit in the smoke area if you don't want to inhale smoke. Don't ban it everywhere simply because you don't like it.[/QUOTE] Its not that I don't like it, which I don't, but that it can kill me, cancer takes a few years, but an asthma attack would kill me quite quickly. Also, cigarette sales may make a crap load of money, but that is nothing compared to the strain put on the health care system of any country caused by smokers.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36445760]Its not that I don't like it, which I don't, but that it can kill me, cancer takes a few years, but an asthma attack would kill me quite quickly. Also, cigarette sales may make a crap load of money, but that is nothing compared to the strain put on the health care system of any country caused by smokers.[/QUOTE] How will it kill you if you sit in smoke free area's or simply don't go to restaurants that allow smoking? Also from what I've seen when restaurants ban smoking instead of sitting in the smoke area and smoke a cig they all go out into the streets so people who walk by have to walk through it, causing a lot more harm.
[QUOTE=Robbi;36445805]How will it kill you if you sit in smoke free area's or simply don't go to restaurants that allow smoking? Also from what I've seen when restaurants ban smoking instead of sitting in the smoke area and smoke a cig they all go out into the streets so people who walk by have to walk through it, causing a lot more harm.[/QUOTE] I'd rather have to walk through it where I can hold my breath instead of needing to sit in it, and do you know what happens when you have an asthma attack, your throat closes up similar to some allergic reactions, one thing that will trigger really severe asthma attacks is cigarette smoke, out side the smoke can disperse into the air and is carried off by the wind, inside, it sits around. Also to the argument of go to a restaurant that doesn't allow smoking, first thing that will happen is that those will all disappear, because why wouldn't they allow smoking if it brings in more customers.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36445212]I'm going to use your own argument against you here and say that I have the right to go to a restaurant and be free of an obvious health hazard.[/QUOTE] You have the right to own your own restaurant and place whatever restrictions you want on it.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;36446135]You have the right to own your own restaurant and place whatever restrictions you want on it.[/QUOTE] So there shouldn't be health and safety regulations?
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36446207]So there shouldn't be health and safety regulations?[/QUOTE] I can see the need in public, badly ventilated areas, since by making someone breathe your second hand smoke you're potentially damaging your body. But there's absolutely nothing preventing you from you know... [I]not[/I] going into a smoker-friendly restaurant? As long as these places are transparent and honest with their health policies, I see absolutely no reason for legally prohibiting smoking in the restaurant somebody's made. There's a demand for smoke-free restaurants, so there would be smoke-free restaurants. But not everyone should suffer just because of those who don't like smoke, even if it's a majority. As long as second-hand smoke is avoidable, there's no issue.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36445955]I'd rather have to walk through it where I can hold my breath instead of needing to sit in it, and do you know what happens when you have an asthma attack, your throat closes up similar to some allergic reactions, one thing that will trigger really severe asthma attacks is cigarette smoke, out side the smoke can disperse into the air and is carried off by the wind, inside, it sits around. Also to the argument of go to a restaurant that doesn't allow smoking, first thing that will happen is that those will all disappear, because why wouldn't they allow smoking if it brings in more customers.[/QUOTE] Sit in the nonsmoking section, they aren't going to dissapear because people who don't smoke generally don't want to be around smoke, they get the most customers by sectioning out smoking and nonsmoking.
[QUOTE=zakedodead;36446525]Sit in the nonsmoking section, they aren't going to dissapear because people who don't smoke generally don't want to be around smoke, they get the most customers by sectioning out smoking and nonsmoking.[/QUOTE] Does it change that its a health hazard? No. Using the cockroach comparison again, would you want a restaurant to have a cockroaches allowed and no cockroaches section? Just because they have their own section doesn't mean shit, unless you want to spend a couple hundred thousand redoing the entire ventilation system of the building, having a smoking and non smoking section will just mean that all the smoke in the building is coming from one area. Instead, places will just put a sign that assigns those seats to be in a smoking area. Nothing to keep smoke out of the other areas.
I'm quite happy for restaurants to have cockroaches as long as they disclose this important health and safety information to be prior to making the voluntary transaction. Obviously there's not going to be a great deal of demand for such a restaurant though..
[QUOTE=Robbobin;36446844]I'm quite happy for restaurants to have cockroaches as long as they disclose this important health and safety information to be prior to making the voluntary transaction. Obviously there's not going to be a great deal of demand for such a restaurant though..[/QUOTE] Again, time to use the same argument you use, you volunteered to start a disgusting habit that no one wants to be around, you can suffer the consequences and not be welcome in places where people eat. Buy an E-Cig if you want to smoke indoors, same effects, without the smoke. I'd be fine with outdoor smoking areas, but what about the people who work there serving people outside, that smell sticks to everything that gets near it, and even that is enough to cause asthma attacks in some people (I dont have it that bad, but some people d, not only that but it creates a hazard to the worker.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36446751]Does it change that its a health hazard? No. Using the cockroach comparison again, would you want a restaurant to have a cockroaches allowed and no cockroaches section? Just because they have their own section doesn't mean shit, unless you want to spend a couple hundred thousand redoing the entire ventilation system of the building, having a smoking and non smoking section will just mean that all the smoke in the building is coming from one area. Instead, places will just put a sign that assigns those seats to be in a smoking area. Nothing to keep smoke out of the other areas.[/QUOTE] Have you ever been in a restaurant? Smoking sections are totally isolated from nonsmoking.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;36446995]Again, time to use the same argument you use, you volunteered to start a disgusting habit that no one wants to be around, you can suffer the consequences and not be welcome in places where people eat. Buy an E-Cig if you want to smoke indoors, same effects, without the smoke. I'd be fine with outdoor smoking areas, but what about the people who work there serving people outside, that smell sticks to everything that gets near it, and even that is enough to cause asthma attacks in some people (I dont have it that bad, but some people d, not only that but it creates a hazard to the worker.[/QUOTE] So by your logic we should bubble wrap every staff member and patron of the restaurant?
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