Redwall: the Evillest Children's Book Series of All Time
125 replies, posted
also I couldn't read the first Redwall book, the made-up language was so ridiculous I was unable to take it seriously
TH89 best thread maker all years.
I do not agree with what you said about how in the Redwall series all "vermin" are bad. In the Redwall book, "The Outcast of Redwall" the ferret child that was abandoned by his warlord father and taken in by the Redwall community was quite evil through out the book, but at the very end he gives his life to save the mouse who raised him and took care of him as a child. That is one example of my point, and now unfortunately my next point will be a little iffy since I cannot remember the books title, and I have since given away all my Redwall books. But in the book I am referring to there are two weasels (again i'm not sure) who join the Redwall community, and while one of them turns out to be evil, one of them turns out to be good, and actually takes up residence near Redwall at the end of the book. Also in the book "Pearls of Lutra" the Abbot is captured by a group of corsairs and monitors (the big lizard). The Abbot is taken to a tropical island that is ruled by an evil dictator. On the way there a fight breaks out between the monitors and the corsairs, because the captain (who at least I realized early on was not completely bad) will not allow the monitors to eat the Abbot. After the fight is over the only one left alive is the Abbot and the captain, and the captain is about to die, and right before he dies the captain remarks that she would have liked to grow up good. Regarding your comment that the mice of Redwall brutally murder the opposing army without remorse, in the first book, "Redwall" the people of Redwall have a chance to kill the opposing army, but the Abbot orders the mice to not go after them and kill them while they retreat. Just my two cents.
[QUOTE=Plasma Rifle;33798627]So says the guy with the pentagram...[/QUOTE]
I may be evil, but I'm not racist. I'm an equal opportunity satanist.
I remember the original thread.
I haven't read the books but I remember the cartoon and being bored by it.
I reject the notion that books aimed at children have to be simple. I mean, there are certain levels of complexity I think should be kept in the background, but to make your villains evil from birth just because you don't think your reader's will be able to understand moral grey areas is horribly condescending.
[QUOTE=Potanis;33802071]I do not agree with what you said about how in the Redwall series all "vermin" are bad. In the Redwall book, "The Outcast of Redwall" the ferret child that was abandoned by his warlord father and taken in by the Redwall community was quite evil through out the book, but at the very end he gives his life to save the mouse who raised him and took care of him as a child. That is one example of my point, and now unfortunately my next point will be a little iffy since I cannot remember the books title, and I have since given away all my Redwall books. But in the book I am referring to there are two weasels (again i'm not sure) who join the Redwall community, and while one of them turns out to be evil, one of them turns out to be good, and actually takes up residence near Redwall at the end of the book.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, see my earlier post about those characters.
[QUOTE=Potanis;33802071]The Abbot is taken to a tropical island that is ruled by an evil dictator. On the way there a fight breaks out between the monitors and the corsairs, because the captain (who at least I realized early on was not completely bad) will not allow the monitors to eat the Abbot. After the fight is over the only one left alive is the Abbot and the captain, and the captain is about to die, and right before he dies the captain remarks that she would have liked to grow up good.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, s/he "would have liked to grow up good." Too bad s/he couldn't, because s/he was a vermin, and according to Brian Jacques there can't be good vermin. Just "not as bad as other vermin" vermin, which is pretty much what all of these examples are.
[editline]20th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Robbobin;33794712]While I'm convinced by most of your argumentation, ferrets are the bomb. My housemate has one at our house and despite spelling like a thousand old people weeing themselves at the same time, she's fucking adorable.[/QUOTE]
I know man! I never said ferrets weren't adorable.
[img]http://www.justanimal.org/images/ferret-16.jpg[/img]
:)
[quote=Brian Jacques]To gain a brief respite, Cluny pushed Killconey into Matthias. The ferret grappled vainly but was cloven in two with one swift stroke.[/quote]
:(
[QUOTE=Sumap;33793689]Huh.
[img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/redwall.png[/img]
Many "classic" fantasy series actually have some themes that could be seen to be similar in terms of "evil by brith". I think it's not so much intended by the author, just more of a way of setting up a certain enemy without too much trouble.[/QUOTE]
I draw your attention to one of the early books which has a female protagonist, and a ferret she raised who wants to emulate his (evil) father but eventually redeems himself. I can't remember it's name because I read them over ten years ago.
Interestingly enough, the vast majority of his "evil" species are carnivores or omnivores with a carnivorous slant, so from the point of view of the predominantly vegetarian cast (Otters are an exception and mice/shrews can be seen as an exception as well but weren't in-universe), it is "evil by birth" - Because they'd happily eat the protags.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;33805011]I draw your attention to one of the early books which has a female protagonist, and a ferret she raised who wants to emulate his (evil) father but eventually redeems himself. I can't remember it's name because I read them over ten years ago.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, we already talked about that twice. Cmon man.
Also, all the good guy animals (not just the otters) eat fish, and as far as I know none of the bad guy animals are ever seen to eat the good guy animals, just kill them and steal their stuff. So I don't know if diet is a legitimate canonical factor in their conflicts.
It's hilarious you wrote this the same day as cracked wrote about racist kids books
[URL]http://www.cracked.com/article_19610_the-6-most-secretly-racist-classic-childrens-books.html[/URL]
Holy shit.
I really liked all of the Redwall books in elementary school for two reasons. First of all, they have good story lines that you can actually follow as a kid, and secondly at my school we had something called "Accelerated Reader" [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Reader[/url]. You basically have to read a book and take a test on it whenever you finish. If you get a high score on a test you get points that go toward a goal for the semester. If you meet your goal, which is assigned to you based on your reading skills, you get to go to a special field trip to the bowling alley at the semester's end. Redwall books always were worth about 15 points and my average goal was 35. So I would read two of the books per semester and maybe one more small book and boom I was done.
The thing that would really piss off the teachers is when I would read a Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter book, which were worth like 40 points. I would read one book and be done with the dumbass AR. :smug:
But I agree, they are evil.
[QUOTE=scotty1;33806082]I really liked all of the Redwall books in elementary school for two reasons. First of all, they have good story lines that you can actually follow as a kid, and secondly at my school we had something called "Accelerated Reader" [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Reader[/url]. You basically have to read a book and take a test on it whenever you finish. If you get a high score on a test you get points that go toward a goal for the semester. If you meet your goal, which is assigned to you based on your reading skills, you get to go to a special field trip to the bowling alley at the semester's end. Redwall books always were worth about 15 points and my average goal was 35. So I would read two of the books per semester and maybe one more small book and boom I was done.
The thing that would really piss off the teachers is when I would read a Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter book, which were worth like 40 points. I would read one book and be done with the dumbass AR. :smug: [/QUOTE]
Whoa that sounds vaguely familiar. I think I might have had that too.
I also remember when we had pen pals in 5th grade. I wrote to my pen pal about how much I liked reading Redwall books, and he wrote back "Redwall is to long."
I swear I watched an animated series of this?
Yeah there was one. I aint seent it though
Someone should stream it and we can all analyze every detail to shit, and maybe have a contest for it or something.
I got one of my books signed by him :v:
lotr has that evil by birth thing. with the orcs i think.
[QUOTE=scotty1;33806082]I really liked all of the Redwall books in elementary school for two reasons. First of all, they have good story lines that you can actually follow as a kid, and secondly at my school we had something called "Accelerated Reader" [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Reader[/url]. You basically have to read a book and take a test on it whenever you finish. If you get a high score on a test you get points that go toward a goal for the semester. If you meet your goal, which is assigned to you based on your reading skills, you get to go to a special field trip to the bowling alley at the semester's end. Redwall books always were worth about 15 points and my average goal was 35. So I would read two of the books per semester and maybe one more small book and boom I was done.
The thing that would really piss off the teachers is when I would read a Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter book, which were worth like 40 points. I would read one book and be done with the dumbass AR. :smug:
But I agree, they are evil.[/QUOTE]
I had that in my school too. Grade 6 they gave me like a 50 pt goal, got like 300 pts... Harry Potter, Pendragon, Redwall for the win
[editline]20th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jah Mason;33806174]I swear I watched an animated series of this?[/QUOTE]
I don't remember a series, but I thought there was a movie?
[editline]20th December 2011[/editline]
Nevermind, seems that there was never a movie but a series instead..
[QUOTE=Daedulas;33807750]lotr has that evil by birth thing. with the orcs i think.[/QUOTE]
But the orcs are descended from elves and men who had been twisted through torture (I think). There's a reason for them to be evil, they weren't just born into it without reason.
Correct me if I'm wrong though, I think this is one of the origins Tolkien came up with atleast.
[QUOTE=lum1naire;33807826]
Nevermind, seems that there was never a movie but a series instead..[/QUOTE]
There is a movie.
Redwall The Movie
Redwall The Movie: To save his besieged Abbey, a young mouse novice must learn of his destiny to be the successor to a great warrior.
Released: January 01, 2000
Runtime: 84 mins
Genres: Adventure Animation Family Fantasy
Countries: Canada
Director: Dean Howard
Actors: Alison Pill Chris Wiggins David Hemblen Diego Matamoros Janet Wright John Stocker Jonathan Wilson Julie Lemieux Keith Knight Marion Day Tracey Moore Tyrone Savage Wayne Robson
[editline]20th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=kitthehacker;33808360]But the orcs are descended from elves and men who had been twisted through torture (I think). There's a reason for them to be evil, they weren't just born into it without reason.
Correct me if I'm wrong though, I think this is one of the origins Tolkien came up with atleast.[/QUOTE]
I thought the orcs were manifestations of mans greed/wrath/lust/blahblahsins
[QUOTE=-nesto-;33808362]I thought the orcs were manifestations of mans greed/wrath/lust/blahblahsins[/QUOTE]
no fuckign no
god damnit i just explained this
the lord of all darkness who was a member of a race of beings who created the world brought elves into his pit of ultimate evil and twisted and tortured them there for hundreds of years and made them into his slaves
jesus it's like you people haven't even READ the silmarillion
[editline]20th December 2011[/editline]
and no they aren't descended from men, those are uruks, which are combinations of orcs and men created by saruman so that he could have an army that could march during the day
whoa nerdout
Didn't we have like a 100 page long thread about Redwall being about homosexuality a few years back?
There's a TV series of absolutely every single redwall book out there, following "I am that is", his son and I forget who the fuck founded the abbey.
i used to love these books, and look what happened to me. keep on spreading the truth th89
Didn't you post the exact same thread a year or so back?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;33808736]no fuckign no
god damnit i just explained this
the lord of all darkness who was a member of a race of beings who created the world brought elves into his pit of ultimate evil and twisted and tortured them there for hundreds of years and made them into his slaves
jesus it's like you people haven't even READ the silmarillion
[editline]20th December 2011[/editline]
and no they aren't descended from men, those are uruks, which are combinations of orcs and men created by saruman so that he could have an army that could march during the day[/QUOTE]
uruks were superior to orcs in every conceivable way so why didn't sauron use them he was all "must use my shitty master morgoth's shitty orcs"
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;33809218]uruks were superior to orcs in every conceivable way so why didn't sauron use them he was all "must use my shitty master morgoth's shitty orcs"[/QUOTE]
because uruks weren't slaved to his power, they had individuality. that's why they followed saruman at the end instead of going back into their holes like the rest of the orcs.
besides, sauron was busy doing his crazy experiments as the necromancer in murkwood, trying to find the rings of power and other magical artifacts
there was also the problem with uruks and orcs not getting along all that well
TH89 is a pretty funny guy sometimes, and I like his writing style
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