• Tim Schafer tries to make a joke at GDC
    183 replies, posted
Egevened, can you answer the question on how ignoring and essentially allowing corruption in gaming journalism would have been to the benefit of... anyone, other than the ones in on the corruption? [QUOTE=Géza!;47267468]Consumers attribute power to these people because the media tells them these people have power. Brianna Wu for example, did not become a known person for being attacked by Gamergate (it's debatable whether there was an attack in the first place because there's been multiple discrepancies), she did because half the games media and even regular news sites have trumpeted it across the globe that she is a games developer being harassed by nasty gamers.[/QUOTE] Aaaactually, from [URL="https://archive.today/uJ0rk"]an interview/profile on Wu[/URL], buried among the fluff and Wu tales, [QUOTE]Wu is in the dining room, finishing an interview with a filmmaker for a documentary about Gamergate, GTFO, debuting this spring at the South by Southwest festival in Austin. Earlier in the day, she had met with a prospective ghostwriter who wants to tell her life story. But one of Wu's friends in the gaming industry has suggested that her story may be more complicated than she lets on--that as bad as the situation has been for Wu, she "wasn't dragged" into it. "She taunted Gamergate for weeks," this woman continued, who asked that her name be withheld. "She baited them, and then they finally came after her, which is exactly what she wanted them to do."[/QUOTE] Brianna Wu became a known person because she wanted to, and leveraged the controversy for her own personal benefit. And the moment she dared break with the narrative, [URL="https://i.imgur.com/UhO68Yo.png"]the true feelings came out[/URL], since she was at risk of no longer being useful.
[QUOTE=Egevened;47267436]did you miss the entire part where I said that the consumers attribute the power to these people[/QUOTE] No, but that doesn't mean you made a coherent argument
[QUOTE=Egevened;47267436]did you miss the entire part where I said that the consumers attribute the power to these people[/QUOTE] Ok so isn't bitching about biased reviews exercising our power? I don't want some poor kid saving up quarters for weeks just to buy gone home and play it for 10 minutes just because polygon gives it a 10/10.
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;47267985]Ok so isn't bitching about biased reviews exercising our power? I don't want some poor kid saving up quarters for weeks just to buy gone home and play it for 10 minutes just because polygon gives it a 10/10.[/QUOTE] so you're telling me you never bought a shitty overhyped game? consumers adapt, the kid will learn to never buy anything without serious insight again and it's done, boom the corrupt journalism has no power over him anymore
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47267574]Egevened, can you answer the question on how ignoring and essentially allowing corruption in gaming journalism would have been to the benefit of... anyone, other than the ones in on the corruption?[/QUOTE] So that's a no, then.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47268024]So that's a no, then.[/QUOTE] I have this slight feeling you guys deem the average consumer way too dumb you were also an average consumer before you got super deep into video games and internet forums, if you are unaffected by game journalism corruption, then why would anyone else be? [editline]6th March 2015[/editline] they can spout 10/10s all they want, one bad purchase and anyone with half a brain considers them untrustable
Everything gamer gate is loud obnoxious bullshit that has done nothing but bring a silly war to the internet, make con artists get rich, and made neutral gamers and people who just talk about games into targets of media, targets of social media, and overall just make us look like dumb mouth breathing white folks. I just want it to end this year so we can get back to focusing on gaming. The sooner this giant flame war ends, the better for the rest of us. [sp]Yes we can still talk about Ethical games journalism and stuff like that without GG, or AGG or whatever. It doesn't need to be mentioned, but it keeps people from misinterpreting my post here.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;47268055]Everything gamer gate is loud obnoxious bullshit that has done nothing but bring a silly war to the internet, make con artists get rich, and made neutral gamers and people who just talk about games into targets of media, targets of social media, and overall just make us look like dumb mouth breathing white folks. I just want it to end this year so we can get back to focusing on gaming. The sooner this giant flame war ends, the better for the rest of us. [sp]Yes we can still talk about Ethical games journalism and stuff like that without GG, or AGG or whatever. It doesn't need to be mentioned, but it keeps people from misinterpreting my post here.[/sp][/QUOTE] this guy gets it
[QUOTE=Egevened;47268031]I have this slight feeling you guys deem the average consumer way too dumb you were also an average consumer before you got super deep into video games and internet forums, if you are unaffected by game journalism corruption, then why would anyone else be? [editline]6th March 2015[/editline] they can spout 10/10s all they want, one bad purchase and anyone with half a brain considers them untrustable[/QUOTE] Because the average consumer isn't spending their time reading multiple reviews just because they got burned once, the average consumer isn't a prosumer, they're a consumer. People who read multiple reviews, look up and down and left and right for all the info they can find about a game before they buy it obviously do not fit into the definition of average, by definition. When the major outlets use their sway to sell games or dissuade people from buying others, they are directly abusing that influence. I agree with you, that the best way to stop them is to stop reading them, but part of the issue becomes that they can still influence the industry, the market, and the views of the average consumer in a way that is far superior to what the consumer, or prosumer, would be able to argue with. There is a huge backlash over the very nature of what gamergate was about, and a huge number of people in the community took to the view that there was nothing to gamergate, due to the medias view of it, it's taken 7 months of constant bullshit for us to get anywhere with this, and get any traction, so really, the average consumer would just see through that all right away? I don't think the average consumer is smart, or dumb. They're average.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;47268055]Everything gamer gate is loud obnoxious bullshit that has done nothing but bring a silly war to the internet, make con artists get rich, and made neutral gamers and people who just talk about games into targets of media, targets of social media, and overall just make us look like dumb mouth breathing white folks. I just want it to end this year so we can get back to focusing on gaming. The sooner this giant flame war ends, the better for the rest of us. [sp]Yes we can still talk about Ethical games journalism and stuff like that without GG, or AGG or whatever. It doesn't need to be mentioned, but it keeps people from misinterpreting my post here.[/sp][/QUOTE] The claim that gamergate has done nothing is simply not true. Check it out [url]http://wiki.gamergate.me/index.php?title=GamerGate_Achievements[/url] And with that last sentence, from what I understand, you seem to want gamergate goals without "gamergate" name. To you, why would a crusade for ethical journalism without a name be any better from what we have? Ethical journalism is a common want among gamergate. You get rid of the name, and all that's left is a chunk of people who have that common want. That's easy for the journalists to marginalize and ignore. You get rid of the name, and there's no more organization, or operation hashtags. You get rid of the name, and people can't google it, can't discuss it, can't refer to it using just one word. We have precedence for the above scenario: People wanted ethical journalism before gamergate. Lots of folks hated Kotaku and friends. There were a lot of attempts to change things. But back then, there was only shit flinging. No coordinated efforts to change this industry for the better. "We should get rid of the name! Our image is ~poisoned~!" No, that would do nothing more than dissipate the members into complete inaction.
Wasn't Gamergate also about those articles about the "gamer" dying because more people are accessing the medium and it's becoming less of an exclusive subculture? Because I'm totally in support of that. Why would you be against your beloved hobby not being stigmatised and associated with antisocial nerds and basement dwellers? I might be wrong, but that's kind of the impression that I got from some GGers' comments.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;47268371]Wasn't Gamergate also about those articles about the "gamer" dying because more people are accessing the medium and it's becoming less of an exclusive subculture? Because I'm totally in support of that. Why would you be against your beloved hobby not being stigmatised and associated with antisocial nerds and basement dwellers? I might be wrong, but that's kind of the impression that I got from some GGers' comments.[/QUOTE] They said gamers are no longer pasty white basement dwellers, implying that was the general demographic in the first place.
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;47268382]They said gamers are no longer pasty white basement dwellers, implying that was the general demographic in the first place.[/QUOTE] That sounds like you're taking it a bit literally.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;47268408]That sounds like you're taking it a bit literally.[/QUOTE] I wish I was joking. [url=https://archive.today/l1kTW#selection-1665.345-1669.155]Gamasutra[/url] [quote]You know,[B] young white dudes[/B] with disposable income who like to Get Stuff. Suddenly a generation of [B]lonely basement kids[/B] had marketers whispering in their ears that they were the most important commercial demographic of all time.[/quote] A piece by [url=https://archive.today/L4vJG#selection-83.306-83.563]Dan Golding[/url] [quote]Campaigns of personal harassment aimed at game developers are nothing new. They are dismayingly common among those who happen to be women, or [B]not white straight men[/B], and doubly so if they also happen to make the sort of game that in any way challenge the status quo, even if that challenge is only made through their very existence.[/quote] [url=https://archive.today/9NxHy#selection-1185.0-1191.135]The Daily Beast[/url] [quote]Or maybe it has to do with the historical accident of [B]gaming being seen as the last refuge of the straight white male[/B], a neglected medium that because it was neglected was able to lag behind movies, TV, and music in the push to be culturally inclusive.[/quote] [url=https://archive.today/jVqJ8]Buzzfeed draws parallels with movies[/url] [quote]Imagine that as movies spread from laboratories to theaters over the next decade, the people who naturally gravitated to them were people who liked science fiction and new technology and had disposable income and time: [B]young white suburban dorks[/B]. Imagine thousands and thousands of [B]young white suburban dork[/B]s taking to movie houses after school every day and spending hour after hour there in the dark, just [B]watching, pretending, escaping.[/B][/quote] [url=https://archive.today/HkPHc#selection-2753.137-2753.275]Financial Post[/url] [quote] They want to keep video games, now a multi-billion dollar industry enjoyed by a wide variety of people and genders, [B]confined to solely focus on appealing to young men[/B], a group that the gaming industry has already targeted for decades.[/quote] Self contradicts itself on the same paragraph [quote]In fact, the number of women playing games on mobile devices and consoles has risen to account for approximately 48% of the entire market.[/quote] [url=https://archive.today/i928J#selection-825.0-833.190]Ars Technica[/url] [quote]Many of the people slagging on Sarkeesian and Quinn bind their arguments up in bigger issues, saying that Quinn's situation shines light on ethical quandaries in games and gaming journalism, and Sarkeesian's illuminates crowd-funded "scams" where "social justice warriors" "cherry-pick" evidence to undermine the [B]massive business and culture of video games, rightfully owned by a particular kind of white man[/B].[/quote] This is 6/19 articles. There's probably more that I missed, but these ones literally say white males(with the exception of the Financial Post article).
[QUOTE=Egevened;47267323]It's not capitalism, consumerism, statisticalism, pandering, dlc and expansion whoring, profit orientation ruining the scene. It's you. I've been closely following but never commenting on this entire thing, not because I prefer to stay afar from arguments, in fact, I enjoy being in the middle of them - but simply because of what I just came to realize. there is no argument. There is no racism in video games. you insert the racism. there's no sexism, you insert the sexism. you see what you want to see. I don't walk down the street judging people based on their color, I don't look at a woman and think 'this bitch should never play video games'. I want to play video games with women. I want to play video games with everyone. That is, I wanted to, until I found out the majority of you have become this - opinionated for the sake of just holding one (an opinion). You're all so focused on opening up the amazing thing that is gaming to everyone that you slowly, and unnoticeable to you, alienate every single person.[/QUOTE] Stupid people are widespread in gaming as far as I've experienced it. It's way too common for you to see people using racial and sexual slurs. It's not an issue with homophobia or racism, it's just people being dumb as all hell and not realizing that there's someone on the other side of the screen. They'll attack whatever they can, just to get a few cheap reactions or to feel better about themselves. [QUOTE=Egevened;47267323] you're the one making the casuals. noone wants to get into video games more seriously than the surface, because the moment they look below it, they see what I see. [/QUOTE] Noone? Please tell me how did LoL or CS:GO became such huge hits. MOBAs and Competitive FPSes are the definition of hardcore gaming. They, with RTSes and Fighting Games are basically the biggest competitive genres out there. [QUOTE=Egevened;47267323][B]realist painters don't shit on post-modernists[/B][/QUOTE] [quote=wikipedia, Modern Art Week]It was organized chiefly by painter Emiliano Di Cavalcanti and poet Mário de Andrade, in an attempt to bring to a head a long-running conflict between the young modernists and the cultural establishment, headed by the Brazilian Academy of Letters, which adhered strictly to academicism.[1] The event was controversial at best and divisive at worst,[1] with one member of the Academy, Graça Aranha, ostracized for attending. He had opened the week with a conference titled "The aesthetic emotion in modern art". Due to the radicalism (for the times) of some of their poems and music, the artists were vigorously booed and pelted by the audience, and the press and art critics in general were strong in their condemnation (such as in a famous episode by editor, writer and art critic Monteiro Lobato).[1][/quote] There are some wondeful quotes such as "These debil, cretin spirits" or "impish futurists", used to describe the new-born movement that spawned on the 'Modern Art Week'. You could describe the Brazillian Modernism as a branch of post-modernism, since it was derived from both late-modernism pieces studied in Europe and enfused with the Brazillian stylism. I'm waiting for this movement to bear it's fruits so I can judge it. We've already seen walking sims in the form of story-driven point and click adventures and interactive novels, none of this is new. They're not an artistic movement, they are simply trying to attack a whole medium in hopes to prove their point and/or achieve victim status, and they're winning. [editline]6th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;47268055]Everything gamer gate is loud obnoxious bullshit that has done nothing but bring a silly war to the internet, make con artists get rich, and made neutral gamers and people who just talk about games into targets of media, targets of social media, and overall just make us look like dumb mouth breathing white folks. I just want it to end this year so we can get back to focusing on gaming. The sooner this giant flame war ends, the better for the rest of us. [sp]Yes we can still talk about Ethical games journalism and stuff like that without GG, or AGG or whatever. It doesn't need to be mentioned, but it keeps people from misinterpreting my post here.[/sp][/QUOTE] Changed nothing in my life other than making me trust games journalism even less than I already did before it. I guess that's a positive outcome on my end, since now I simply try the games instead of trusting reviews and shit. Another good outcome are the discussions regarding the merits of numerically grading pieces of media that are mostly subjective experiences.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47261906]Anti-gamergate has attempted to paint the opposition as white pasty misogynist nerds and Xbox Live racists trying to oppress minorities -- to deflect from pro-gamergate's actual goal of rooting out corruption in gaming journalism and game development. Minority members came out in support with #notyourshield on Twitter, people of colour, women, non-hetero people, any combination of the above and so on, tweeted that anti-gamergate could not speak for them as a silent majority. Anti-gg has basically claimed them to be either brainwashed and acting according to "internalized misogyny/racism" (i.e. for being "too dumb" to pick the "right" side of the argument) or flat out sockpuppets as a way of denying the clear and persistent photographic proof. Found on Twitter: [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_UmABrVAAALvca.jpg:large[/IMG][/QUOTE] doesn't this picture literally just prove that women and minorities need to be brought into the gaming industry in substantially larger quantities? it's a small photo so i can't parse out too much detail in the bottom photo but it looks seriously male dominated up in there, and it's incredibly obvious that the top one is male and white dominated.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47269853]doesn't this picture literally just prove that women and minorities need to be brought into the gaming industry in substantially larger quantities? it's a small photo so i can't parse out too much detail in the bottom photo but it looks seriously male dominated up in there, and it's incredibly obvious that the top one is male and white dominated.[/QUOTE] The image is small but I can spot at least 3 females in the bottom one. I'm sure there's even more if we had a higher res one.
A couple of people in the room at the bottom are women. The point of the top picture is to prove that the people who claim to want more diversity and actively speak for them are mostly white-male dominated, something they constantly use to shut down arguments of other white males and even females (as seen in the Tim Schafer speech, that's the same crowd cheering for him!) Hypocrites, basically.
Well I guess we can discredit him for the funny aspects of his old games.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;47265793]at least sess got out while he could crazy how kotick was actually right[/QUOTE] Kotick was right because he bought a failing gaming company decades ago and turned it into one of the biggest powerhouses in all of gaming. Its really no surprise. I would trust him over any game dev when it comes to running a business and handling money, he obviously knows his shit.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;47269928]Kotick was right because he bought a failing gaming company decades ago and turned it into one of the biggest powerhouses in all of gaming. Its really no surprise. I would trust him over any game dev when it comes to running a business and handling money, he obviously knows his shit.[/QUOTE] He's brutally efficient, I'll give him that. I just wish he'd give the passionate people a little more leash.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47269853]doesn't this picture literally just prove that women and minorities need to be brought into the gaming industry in substantially larger quantities? it's a small photo so i can't parse out too much detail in the bottom photo but it looks seriously male dominated up in there, and it's incredibly obvious that the top one is male and white dominated.[/QUOTE] That's the point. Those are the advocates for "diversity", who have infinitely more power to create "diverse" work forces it haven't done much to actually change anything
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47270048]That's the point. Those are the advocates for "diversity", who have infinitely more power to create "diverse" work forces it haven't done much to actually change anything[/QUOTE] "ideas guy" stereotype. All talk, no actual progress.
[QUOTE=Egevened;47267323]I like video games. the more I read about video games, the more I realize I should not be into video games, or more accurately, I realize why it is a fucking retarded past-time to associate with. I remember when I was just into my teen years, I played metal gear solid 2. That had to be one of my first- if not the first - video games I ever played. Barely spoke a fucking word of english. That game, (and knights of the old republic) probably constitute 80% of my memories around that time. endlessly replaying those games, literally sitting over them with a book to translate them, slowly made me realize how much more possibility does this arc of mass media have than say, movies, or music, books - it encompassed every single good trait of them, and did away with the boring or bad; while at the same time making the experience of them an interactive one. every single game I cherish I cherish for the reasons that I could not a movie, or anything else, really - their interactivity however deep, be it an rpg with tactical depth, or a linear shooter like those old medal of honors that railroaded you down a movie-like, yet still involving experience, or an adventure game where you had to figure out where to go and what to do, like the longest journey. a medium full of brilliant, inspirational minds working on these titles, and following specific journalists to find out what is good and why (who were equally inspired, and massively into the scene) made me a fan of video gaming as a whole. an engrossing thing. made friends with fans of the scene, talked about it, the entire medium had its ups and downs, but every year there were great, dedicated, thought-provoking or simply blast-you-away titles coming out, with small companies rising from the ground simply because people were willing to notice their genius. not unlike films, really - the scenes, the people and major companies became estabilished, but there was no shortage of underground masterpieces coming out of the woodwork; and more importantly, everyone appreciated it. people were calling video games out to have progressed as far in 20 years as hollywood has progressed in 70. It's not capitalism, consumerism, statisticalism, pandering, dlc and expansion whoring, profit orientation ruining the scene. It's you. I've been closely following but never commenting on this entire thing, not because I prefer to stay afar from arguments, in fact, I enjoy being in the middle of them - but simply because of what I just came to realize. there is no argument. There is no racism in video games. you insert the racism. there's no sexism, you insert the sexism. you see what you want to see. I don't walk down the street judging people based on their color, I don't look at a woman and think 'this bitch should never play video games'. I want to play video games with women. I want to play video games with everyone. That is, I wanted to, until I found out the majority of you have become this - opinionated for the sake of just holding one (an opinion). You're all so focused on opening up the amazing thing that is gaming to everyone that you slowly, and unnoticeable to you, alienate every single person. you're the one making the casuals. noone wants to get into video games more seriously than the surface, because the moment they look below it, they see what I see. waiting for zoey quinn to fuck some people; and for the whole thing to come to life. you were all waiting for a reason to hold sides, to hold strong opinions over which is literally nothing. the issue would not exist if people in the scene were smart enough to overlook things like the corrupt journalists or clashing ideals. realist painters don't shit on post-modernists, photographers of models don't shittalk people who take snapshots of nature, people in politics wholly ignore fox news/russia today; yet you insist. you're just a cog in the mechanism for the wrecking ball that's fucking this entire thing over. people, in any case, are only as powerful as the power you attribute to them, and you people have attributed way, way too much to figureheads whose personal quarrels have become the bane of the industry. Fuck gamergate. Fuck anti-gamergate. All there is below the surface is shit-flinging. and you're part of it. even deeper, there's video games, and it's like you've all forgotten.[/QUOTE] And here you are taking a stand to look down upon everyone. To aggressively push your belief that if you don't care about an issue, no one should.
[QUOTE=Van-man;47270118]"ideas guy" stereotype. All talk, no actual progress.[/QUOTE] i think tim schafer is the only one who can actually not be the ideas guy. now i dont have a list for the demographics at double fine, but im gonna assume they're a lot more diverse just because he's the guy running the show. but this is all just my assumption, i doubt tim is the kind of person who would post a video or pictures about how diverse his company is cause that would be the most shameful thing, like "LOOK AT HOW DIVERSE WE ARE SEE IM NOT LYING INTERNET" you can see where that could go wrong. but i really would like him to speak more than just being condescending douche on twitter and making some backhanded remarks at these press events, like id rather see him put effort forward to speak to the actual industry and call for change (the fem frequency video doesn't count towards that)
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;47266437] [img]http://puu.sh/go7Kz/a7350abf4a.png[/img] [img]http://puu.sh/go7Hl/e47c6e1116.jpg[/img] [/quote] How is this evidence of TotalBiscuit being a bad person? I always see AGG bring this up. He critizised internet slacktivism for not accomplishing anything and that people should just treat Trans people like normal human beings as just asking bigots to stop won't do anything. You could say he's wrong but it's not like he's transphobic.
[QUOTE=SelfishDragon;47270516]How is this evidence of TotalBiscuit being a bad person? I always see AGG bring this up. He critizised internet slacktivism for not accomplishing anything and that people should just treat Trans people like normal human beings as just asking bigots to stop won't do anything. You could say he's wrong but it's not like he's transphobic.[/QUOTE] Because unlike many others, he is unfiltered and blunt when it comes to what he says, wrong or not. That in turn causes a lot of hurt feelz and hate.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;47265027]by being anti-gamergate "in the honor of women and minorities in gaming", he's contradicting himself by making fun of a hashtag all about women and minorities not being used as an example by white men that try to guilt trip everybody. he's essentially trying to save women and minorities by erasing them so they never exist in the first place.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Screen-Shot-2014-09-08-at-3.42.20-PM.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=NOR_92;47272656][IMG]http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Screen-Shot-2014-09-08-at-3.42.20-PM.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] this was posted after NYS was started it's just some random 4channer saying "hey you guys should stick it to the SJWs"
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;47272707]this was posted after NYS was started it's just some random 4channer saying "hey you guys should stick it to the SJWs"[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://img.pixady.com/2014/09/202517_bwm9q3ciaaxi4t.jpg[/IMG]
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