considering i'm probably going to die of cancer in the middle of my life i'm going to go somewhere for legal euthanasia before it gets shit. anyone in my life who cares about me will be able to be there for me if they want.
euthanasia not being legal is mostly a non separation of church and state masked by a bunch of bullshit excuses.
[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;30186185]Obviously for this to not be abused the patient has to go on record to say they want this done, the doctor shouldn't be able to euthanize anyone without a psychological test and their permission on paper record.
Interesting documentary about this topic, "You Don't Know Jack".[/QUOTE]That shouldn't need to be said, really; it should be the absolute minimum expected by law, and indeed is in the countries where it's legal.
[QUOTE=nono345;30179359]if young people want to go to asia I think it should be allowed[/QUOTE]
i strongly disagree
I'm all for it. Assuming the following.
(1). The forgiveness of debts.
(2). No chance of proper resuscitation.
(3). Saving live is possible, but only prolong the inevitable.
And yes, God is not real. Some people simply need to feel that there is something greater than themselves out there. A huge force that enacts order that has their best interests at heart.
Why is everyone saying debt goes to the next of kin? It absolutely does not. It goes to the [b]estate[/b]. Their heirs might not get anything from that estate because debt can wipe it out but unless you're in some kind of joint liability with the deceased you don't have to pay their debt.
[QUOTE=TehWhale;30185694]you should be able to end your life if you wish[/QUOTE]
and you can do that, any day.
it's just that the people in a vegetative state can't quite do that themselves, even if they wanted to. So I guess it should be up to the closest relative to decide on, but they can make stupid choices too like "hurrdurr lets wait until he wakes up even though he won't but let's have a little faith"
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;30187943]and you can do that, any day.[/QUOTE]
Suicide has certain legal ramifications that legal euthanasia wouldn't
Through sickness, if somebody was reduced to the mental capacity of a two year old I would support euthanasia. Nobody wants to live like that. Nobody.
I'm pretty neutral on the issue, I just don't think allowing people to commit suicide is morally right, yet I really don't think it's my right to control other people's lives.
[QUOTE=kaine123;30188301]I'm pretty neutral on the issue, I just don't think allowing people to commit suicide is morally right, yet I really don't think it's my right to control other people's lives.[/QUOTE]why don't you think people have the right to end their life?
[QUOTE=TehWhale;30188352]why don't you think people have the right to end their life?[/QUOTE]
because generally people with suicidal thoughts can't think clearly
now euthanasia due to illness is a completely different story, but he was only talking about suicide
I suppose if the person took a mental examination to make sure that they were making a rational decision, yeah. Though, for whatever reason, it just feels wrong to have a public option where you can just go to the doctor and kill yourself, I'd probably say it should be reserved for people who are terminally ill.
When trying to determine whether an issue concerning morality should be made illegal or not, I always ask myself two questions: what would I want or expect if this issue concerned me, and does allowing the issue to remain legal (or to legalize it) hurt anybody? With a subject like euthanasia, however, the lines become more gray.
If I became terminally ill with a degenerative sickness such as cancer, I would absolutely want to have the option to end my life on my own terms while I still retained full cognitive function. It's better to die in your right mind than lose your identity, memory, and basic motor skills to the sickness and the drugs used to fight it. I'd want to die with some dignity, you know?
But Euthanasia makes the second question considerably harder to answer. Obviously somebody gets hurt, the entire point of euthanasia is to end a life. More so, the families of the affected individuals will mourn the death of a loved one. However, while euthanasia [i]is[/i] intended to kill, it's only meant to do so as a mercy to the pain of a worse death, so I suppose people [i]aren't[/i] really hurt by it in the broader sense.
Euthanasia is definitely a toughy for me. Yes, in the event of terminal illness I think euthanasia should be legal, but what of suicide? Applying my method, I'd say: No, I would never commit suicide unless it was to spare me a worse death; and yes, people [i]are[/i] hurt by suicide--both the suicidal person and his family and friends suffer for his loss. I also believe that suicide is the worst possible case of "jumping the gun" you could make, as depression isn't forever. Your life could turn around at some point down the road, and you might find peace and happiness again. Morally, I think suicide for emotional reasons is wrong and should be prevented at all costs in favor of helping a suicidal person address his problems and learn how to be happy, but then again, I have to ask myself, "who the hell am I to tell somebody else what they can or cannot do with their own life?"
This question makes my head hurt. In the future, please ask simpler questions.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;30189257]In the future, please ask simpler questions.[/QUOTE]
as a moderator your statements are official
you just outlawed intelligent discussion on facepunch nice work
now nothing changes...
[quote]"who the hell am I to tell somebody else what they can or cannot do with their own life?"[/quote]
That's pretty much the only thing I consider when thinking about this, personal sovereignty takes precedent over everything else from my point of view.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;30189257]
This question makes my head hurt. In the future, please ask simpler questions.[/QUOTE]
I asked the question because it's better than asking "lol how do you start a garrysmud svr?"
In future, I will refrain from asking questions to stimulate intelligent discussion, if thats what you'd like
Yes I realize you're probably joking when you said that but there we are
I agree with your point about suicide, perhaps it should not be used unless in the case of a terminal illness. Suicidal feelings can subside with help, and so it shouldn't be allowed to make suicide easier to entice people into doing so.
Morality is subjective
end thread
Let them decide beforehand whether or not they want to off themselves. Some people might not want to because they want to hope that they get better. Others just say "fuck it" and don't want to live as a vegetable. It should also be a big deal when they decide they want to or not. They should have to consult their lawyers, get approval from a psychologist (if they are able to be communicated to), and sign a waiver.
"off themselves" is another way of saying fap v:v:v
[QUOTE=Barrowsx;30190172]Let them decide beforehand whether or not they want to off themselves. Some people might not want to because they want to hope that they get better. Others just say "fuck it" and don't want to live as a vegetable. It should also be a big deal when they decide they want to or not. They should have to consult their lawyers, get approval from a psychologist (if they are able to be communicated to), and sign a waiver.[/QUOTE]
My problem with forcing a psychological evaluation is that I don't know how many shrinks out there have an agenda, be it religious or otherwise.
It's not like doctors where it's obvious whether or not they're doing controversial procedures (like abortion), with shrinks it's harder to prove an agenda.
[QUOTE=Checkers;30189893]Morality is subjective
end thread[/QUOTE]
Morality is universal and subjective only to species [b]pragmatically[/b] based on their perception of reality.
Euthanasia should be legal if the patient is in too much pain to ever be helped or consents.
Where I live, assisted suicide is legal.
[QUOTE=Helix Alioth;30194612]Morality is universal and subjective only to species [b]pragmatically[/b] based on their perception of reality.[/QUOTE]
To suggest that morality is universal can suggest that there is a god-like entity that sets the standard for morality.
I say fuck it. People should learn to die with dignity, regardless of pain. It only lasts for so long before it stops, you need to go and face it like a boss and show you're going to be a tougher motherfucker than what that disease/disorder/wound has ever seen.
When I die, I'll accept no god damn painkillers, no euthanasia. That's how I've dealt with all injuries in my life. Just because one of them will be fatal won't change a damn thing. [sp]I'm going to get some boxes for this, I just know it.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Trumple;30186117]If everyone thought like that we'd still be cavemen[/QUOTE]
Nope we could still be civilised but think for ourselves instead.
[QUOTE=Hullu V3;30186162]In that case I'll come and kill you. Why? Because I can.[/QUOTE]
Yeah you can but you might die trying, so... Is it really worth it?
I laugh at the people who rated me dumb because I think for myself instead of letting the Government do it for me. If i want to do something I will do it regardless of what other people say, there is no right or wrong, there are only consequences to your actions.
If something you want to do is illegal, think "should this be illegal?" and if you think it shouldn't then just be careful when you do it. Fuck what everybody else says.
[QUOTE=Sabrina;30196309]I say fuck it. People should learn to die with dignity, regardless of pain. It only lasts for so long before it stops, you need to go and face it like a boss and show you're going to be a tougher motherfucker than what that disease/disorder/wound has ever seen.
When I die, I'll accept no god damn painkillers, no euthanasia. That's how I've dealt with all injuries in my life. Just because one of them will be fatal won't change a damn thing. [sp]I'm going to get some boxes for this, I just know it.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Have you ever had a terminal illness or been in the kind of pain you'd have from such an illness?
Then stop acting like such a bad-ass because you know you'll be taking the painkillers in such a situation, too.
[QUOTE=Sabrina;30196309]I say fuck it. People should learn to die with dignity, regardless of pain. It only lasts for so long before it stops, you need to go and face it like a boss and show you're going to be a tougher motherfucker than what that disease/disorder/wound has ever seen.
When I die, I'll accept no god damn painkillers, no euthanasia. That's how I've dealt with all injuries in my life. Just because one of them will be fatal won't change a damn thing. [sp]I'm going to get some boxes for this, I just know it.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Do you really think you'll give a shit how 'tough' you are when you're in agony and are desperate to die?
[QUOTE=Sabrina;30196309]
When I die, I'll accept no god damn painkillers, no euthanasia. That's how I've dealt with all injuries in my life. Just because one of them will be fatal won't change a damn thing. [sp]I'm going to get some boxes for this, I just know it.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I'm guessing the worse injury you've sustained was a broken bone
Certainly in terminal patients, but I'd probably go further and say that anybody should be allowed to euthanise if they could be proven to be of rational agency (obviously it would be best if they had to go a rigorous session of therapy first to ensure it was a last resort).
People should be more open with suicide so the problem can be tackled more scientifically and seriously.
Depression is an illness. It fogs your mind and the only thing you see as a viable exit is suicide. It's the same when you're drunk or high or tired. Your mind gets fogged and you do stuff you normally wouldn't.
Providing a depressed person with euthanasia or any other substance that will kill him should count as taking advantage of because the person can't think logically while depressed.
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