TotalBiscuit will now talk about microtransactions for just under 25 minutes - General

If you decried Paid Mods, but don't decry microtransactions in games you already pay for, you're a hypocrite. Fuck microtransactions in games you pay for, no matter how "just cosmetic" or "you dont need them" they are. Fuck "economies" built around virtual skins (especially in games you already pay for) and fuck Valve for popularizing that idea.

[QUOTE=bdd458;49193077]If you decried Paid Mods, but don't decry microtransactions in games you already pay for, you're a hypocrite. Fuck microtransactions in games you pay for, no matter how "just cosmetic" or "you dont need them" they are. Fuck "economies" built around virtual skins (especially in games you already pay for) and fuck Valve for popularizing that idea.[/QUOTE] lmao skins basically saved CSGO and made it one of the most sucessful games right now and that is a game that you buy first

I just can't really bring myself to be 100% vehemently against it because at its core, I understand it's an attempt at a new method of monetization in the face of vastly growing costs for development. I don't like it, I want to be clear about that, and I haven't ever paid for any microtransaction in any game or app. But I feel like I know why they want to do that beyond "gouging". Games are a pretty expensive business and failing to meet a break even point is pretty damning to the individual studios. I'm more inclined to disagree with the general hatred of developers wanting to get more money because in a lot of cases, we're assuming what their motives are. I agree it's largely not customer friendly to double dip, and it being an early access game is what makes this particularly objectionable. It isn't a good PR move though that's for sure.

[QUOTE=HSF;49193128]lmao skins basically saved CSGO and made it one of the most sucessful games right now and that is a game that you buy first[/QUOTE] And that is a statement I've always laughed at (It's also easy to parrot PC Gamer, right? :smile:). If your game was "saved" by gouging people with virtual items, you have fucked up. I actually used to think CS:GO was fairly decent, and then I noticed it really went downhill once the skins went live. I always thought the skins were ridiculous, I can understand it in a F2P game since you do need to be able to make money off of your game, however KF2, CS:GO, PD2, Assassin's Creed - those aren't free to play games. Those are games you already fucking pay for, and its shameful to see developers/publishers fuck customers around like they do. Not to mention the culture such an "economy" brings with it; gambling for starters. My friend did a lot of Streaming of CS:GO back in December/January, and he built a fairly decent small following. However, most of his views weren't when he was actually playing the game - it was when he fucking did unboxings of skins (and then even did some giveaways). They weren't there for the game, they were there for the skins. I saw him spend so much fucking money on virtual pieces of nothing, which by the way he gambled some of it away on betting on CS:GO matches. As a result of Payday 2, and this, I've taken a much more hardline stance against skins and even DLCs which are "just" cosmetic. I can't stand seeing how scummy and greedy many developers truly are and the culture of acceptance and the other things that it breeds. [editline]26th November 2015[/editline] just remember you're defending Horse Armor, because "That's just cosmetic and I want to support Bethesda because I like their games". we've standardized Horse Armor and made it 1000 times worse.

Come for the superficial 'hats' and stay for the great gameplay.

The shitty update speed is just shows how inept Tripwire is when it comes to giving a fuck about their game

No if I bought horse armor I'd be supporting it. Being for companies trying new things to make money is hardly the same as buying and supporting it. I'll buy it if it ever works for me.

[QUOTE=bdd458;49193267]And that is a statement I've always laughed at (It's also easy to parrot PC Gamer, right? :smile:). If your game was "saved" by gouging people with virtual items, you have fucked up. I actually used to think CS:GO was fairly decent, and then I noticed it really went downhill once the skins went live. I always thought the skins were ridiculous, I can understand it in a F2P game since you do need to be able to make money off of your game, however KF2, CS:GO, PD2, Assassin's Creed - those aren't free to play games. Those are games you already fucking pay for, and its shameful to see developers/publishers fuck customers around like they do. Not to mention the culture such an "economy" brings with it; gambling for starters. My friend did a lot of Streaming of CS:GO back in December/January, and he built a fairly decent small following. However, most of his views weren't when he was actually playing the game - it was when he fucking did unboxings of skins (and then even did some giveaways). They weren't there for the game, they were there for the skins. I saw him spend so much fucking money on virtual pieces of nothing, which by the way he gambled some of it away on betting on CS:GO matches. As a result of Payday 2, and this, I've taken a much more hardline stance against skins and even DLCs which are "just" cosmetic. I can't stand seeing how scummy and greedy many developers truly are and the culture of acceptance and the other things that it breeds. [editline]26th November 2015[/editline] just remember you're defending Horse Armor, because "That's just cosmetic and I want to support Bethesda because I like their games". we've standardized Horse Armor and made it 1000 times worse.[/QUOTE] Believe it or not, supporting a game after release cost money. You paid once, that's great! But do you know the cost of a dozens of full-time programmer for only one week? In Early-Access format, I find it unacceptable. When you release a game in Early-Access, there's a contract where you're supposed to finish the game and release it in a proper final state. I despise the choice of Tripwire to use micro-transaction to make more money, when their development practices on KF2 has been dubious at best. Their time is evidently used elsewhere, as their development speed is currently terrible. However, in games like CS:GO or TF2, there needs to be a way for the developers and events to gain money in order to support the game. In a common situation, Overwatch currently has skins that are purely cosmetic, added with a base price of 40 US, while being in Beta. Even if TB seems to support it, I feel like those cosmetics should find a way to be earned with game accomplishment, rather than just dishing out additional money.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192719]they already monetized their game by charging $30. i already supported the developer by buying it. why do they get to double dip?[/QUOTE] But it's okay if Valve sells shit tons of cosmetic items in TF2 because you have over 5,700 hours in it, am I right?

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;49193567]But it's okay if Valve sells shit tons of cosmetic items in TF2 because you have over 5,700 hours in it, am I right?[/QUOTE] i actually hate tf2 lol. i stopped playing the game sometime in late 2011, early 2012. i despise what theyve done with it, and i dont play csgo or dota for the same reasons. i blame valve for popularising this type of monetary system with tf2, and i hate tf2 because it has eaten itself alive with the economy shit.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192598]I get that arguement, however we don't know the full story of Tripwires financial situation as TB stated in the video. Maybe they need the extra cash flow, maybe they are greedy basterds, who knows? I just think the anger is a case of people judging too quickly without taking other factors into consideration.[/QUOTE] Maybe they should actually communicate then. Buying a game in early access is basically investing in that game's development, normally investors get told how their investment's doing. If Tripwire just said "Hey we don't have enough money to sustain development so we're doing this to increase our income" that would make the situation so much better.

[QUOTE=Feuver;49193539]Believe it or not, supporting a game after release cost money. You paid once, that's great! But do you know the cost of a dozens of full-time programmer for only one week? [/QUOTE] Believe it or not the company could focus on making a nice sized DLC for people to buy, or here's the real kicker, another game! Not milk the other one with pointless microtransactions. not to mention other people buy the game, they don't need to milk whales to survive, which is ALL that Microtransactions are designed to do. It's the same damn thing as cancerous mobile games, and it's legit funny as hell to hear people defending companies treating them not as a customer, but as a wallet to be raped all in the name "trying new ways to make money" and "They're a starving developer :ccc"

Further proof that the only winning move in playing early access games is not to play. This post is dedicated to Starforge and other shovelware early access games available to steam.

I don't really understand how he can have so much ire for early access games, when his logic against it seems to be the exact inverse of the logic by which he supports micro-transactions. His argument for micro-transactions, at least judging by this video, is that while most developers get it wrong, they don't always get it wrong so there's nothing inherently wrong about it. But there are also cases where early access caused some really great cames to come out, and yet he condemns the system because the majority don't.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;49193567]But it's okay if Valve sells shit tons of cosmetic items in TF2 because you have over 5,700 hours in it, am I right?[/QUOTE] Valve games are either extremely cheap or free. However, nothing wrong with the "double dip" if its cosmetic stuff that doesn't affect the game.

[QUOTE=Wormy;49193824]Tripwire is a small studio with not many developers, the long wait between updates are somewhat understandable. I'd rather they take time and effort when making their updates so they can be sure they meet the playerbase's expectations.[/QUOTE] Promising a perk a month to what we got (Broken as hell and months late for the first two perks) is another matter

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192493]I dont understand the anger around KF2 microtransactions. They are optional, cosmetic only and you don't need them at all. If Tripwire wants to monitize their game, they can go right ahead. This isn't as bad as Payday 2's microtransaction implementation.[/QUOTE] remember when tf2's microtransactions were only cosmetic? yeahh

[QUOTE=cccritical;49194206]remember when tf2's microtransactions were only cosmetic? yeahh[/QUOTE] ehm, they've always been cosmetic and weapons you know

[QUOTE=Zannabluke;49194247]ehm, they've always been cosmetic [B]and weapons[/B] you know[/QUOTE] yeah, he does know. that was his point.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49194257]yeah, he does know. that was his point.[/QUOTE] and? what's his point? tf2 microtransactions have always been from the start cosmetics and weapons (that you can also craft but whatever) kf2 micros are now only cosmetics but could potentially sell sidegrades in the future two completely different routes for this business model

17:15 to left grey fox,.??

The problem is they're promising micros in a game that's still in a state of early access That's the definition of scummy, I mean I wouldn't mind if they held off until the game was released, but they hardly update the game as is, this will only make it slower. I know the developers said it won't take away form their time, but I can't trust any developer anymore after Payday 2. Do what you say, not say what you're going to do.

I would be fine with this if the game was actually finished. However it isn't and it seems like they are prioritizing making content that'll sell right now rather than making content to finish a game. Either they are greedy or are hurting for money. Thank god I refunded this.

They definitely announced things in the wrong order, the microtransactions are being added as part of a big content update, but they decided to announce the microtransactions separately first.

Here's a good article about microtransactions and why people are mad at PD2 and KF2: [url]https://medium.com/steam-spy/why-paid-games-are-adding-micro-payments-526f358426c6#.vyfnkjce4[/url]

Valve is applauded and praised for the shit they pulled in TF2, Dota and CS:GO, Tripwire does it and gets tons of shit for it [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=redBadger;49194635]I would be fine with this if the game was actually finished. However it isn't and it seems like they are prioritizing making content that'll sell right now rather than making content to finish a game. Either they are greedy or are hurting for money. Thank god I refunded this.[/QUOTE] It's almost like you want major updates to a game instantly this shit takes time, you entitled fuck also a game is never technically finished until the day that a developer completely abandons it and stops updating it

[QUOTE=Jetpack Bear;49196150]also a game is never technically finished until the day that a developer completely abandons it and stops updating it[/QUOTE] A game is finished as soon as it leaves Early Access. When a game is out of early access, it is completely qualified to be criticized as a finished game. I don't know why you felt the need to throw in that made-up technicality other than to back up your already baseless argument.

[QUOTE=Jetpack Bear;49196150]Valve is applauded and praised for the shit they pulled in TF2, Dota and CS:GO, Tripwire does it and gets tons of shit for it [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] It's almost like you want major updates to a game instantly this shit takes time, you entitled fuck also a game is never technically finished until the day that a developer completely abandons it and stops updating it[/QUOTE] TF2, Dota and CS:GO are all cheap/free games that were actually feature/content complete before drops/microtransactions were added. KF2 is missing multiple perks, a fuck ton of weapons and 2 of 3 promised bosses.

My opinion on this situation is this, yeah you bought the game for 30 bucks, they never promised to not have microtransactions in their game, you bought a product that as TB said may look totally different on "release" - but I also think you have all the right in the world to be upset about it and should by no means stay quiet about it because you did in fact pay for the game so you have the right to criticize it. After all, isn't one of the points of EA to have community feedback? This is - mostly - an issue with the early access model being vague and sort of dodgy and if Tripwire thinks the uproar is unjustified then I don't think they understand EA, but likewise you as a consumer shouldn't have bought into EA.

[QUOTE=Jetpack Bear;49196150]Valve is applauded and praised for the shit they pulled in TF2, Dota and CS:GO, Tripwire does it and gets tons of shit for it [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] It's almost like you want major updates to a game instantly this shit takes time, you entitled fuck also a game is never technically finished until the day that a developer completely abandons it and stops updating it[/QUOTE] honestly who is applauding valve lol ive never seen anyone say anything good about the tf2/csgo/dota store (other than the people that jerk off to how large their steam inventory is)