TotalBiscuit will now talk about microtransactions for just under 25 minutes - General

I really can't help but wonder how much of this backlash is due to the Payday 2 scandal.

[QUOTE=Shalaska;49196191]TF2, Dota and CS:GO are all cheap/free games that were actually feature/content complete before drops/microtransactions were added. KF2 is missing multiple perks, a fuck ton of weapons and 2 of 3 promised bosses.[/QUOTE] Dota wasn't even close to complete when valve added crate loot. Hell, 4 years later and Dota still isn't complete.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;49197914]Dota wasn't even close to complete when valve added crate loot. Hell, 4 years later and Dota still isn't complete.[/QUOTE] But DOTA is f2p, KF2 isn't.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;49197914]Dota wasn't even close to complete when valve added crate loot. Hell, 4 years later and Dota still isn't complete.[/QUOTE] The only reason Dota 2 "still isn't complete" is because, like TF2, it's getting constant updates and recently was moved over to Source 2. And as rider said it's fucking F2P and the never once has a cosmetic even began to touch gameplay.

[QUOTE=cccritical;49194206]remember when tf2's microtransactions were only cosmetic? yeahh[/QUOTE] They still are? There's nothing gameplay exclusive to the store. All gameplay changing weapons can be found through drops, or crafting. Every weapon is only worth a scrap anyway so you could just trade 2 weapons you found through drops for whatever weapon you want. And even then, in most scenarios the default weapons are usually the most reliable.

[QUOTE=Zannabluke;49194247]ehm, they've always been cosmetic [b]and weapons[/b] you know[/QUOTE] ehm yeah, am I the only person who sees this as a bad thing? "this new weapon can be yours for only $4.99!" I won't start talking about how even just the cosmetics ruined tf2's aesthetic but to sell changes to core gameplay, and often put players at an advantage because they have access to their mom's credit card? nah son, that's a bad model I'm not invested in kf2 at all, didn't really like the first one, but I'm going to be plenty sore if more companies see how successful valve was at monetizing gameplay in tf2 and start implementing it in their own games [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=DrCactus;49198098]They still are? There's nothing gameplay exclusive to the store. All gameplay changing weapons can be found through drops, or crafting. Every weapon is only worth a scrap anyway so you could just trade 2 weapons you found through drops for whatever weapon you want.[/QUOTE] yeah let's sit for however many hundreds of hours until we finally get that drop, or pay $2.50 a key to get something that can only be found in a crate it'd be kind of dumb to lock players out of classes until a variable amount of time is up, wouldn't it? how is it different for weapons? the impact may not be as drastic but the reduction in options and the model of paying for immediate access is still a blight, because the alternative is wishing upon a star that someday, weeks or months or years into the future, you're lucky enough to get a drop with that one weapon you've been eyeing

The thing I dont get is why are people getting so pissy about a game, that is in early acess, suddenly getting a big change like this. Its something that you can come to expect when you buy in early. I dont expect half of the games in the Facepunch Prototype pack to remotely resemble what they look like now in both gameplay, and artistic stylization. I get that you paid for the game already. Don't buy the ugly skins then. No one is forcing your hand to put in your CC information and buy something. This zed-conomy could have been planed from the start, too, and they needed the Early Access money to pay the other team to make the system for it. Once again, thats a risk that you take when buying into a game that uses the EA system that clearly states that it might not remotely resemble its current look and feel later on down the road. This also comes along with a sizable update with the Patriarch and new maps and some weapons. All of which I am aware, are free. At least its not taking the TF2 route, and just completely going free to play and saying "thanks for the $20, heres a shitty cosmetic. Enjoy!"

the moment you add micro transactions of any sort to a paid early access title I think it's OK to judge the game as if it were released if you're so confident in your game that you'll add microtransactions you deserve to have it judged in full as it stands the game isn't finished, even still, and yet they added them. That just not ok. Wait until the game is fully formed before doing this.

We can also bring up how Rust, a facepunch game thats in early access, has micro transactions in it after you buy it.

[QUOTE=Digivee;49198141]We can also bring up how Rust, a facepunch game, has micro transactions in it after you buy it.[/QUOTE] I've always hated the rust community anyways personally, and ever liked survival games at all. at least rust is actually getting updates, so it's a lot easier to forgive. Killing Floor on the other hand appears to be getting very slow updates.

[QUOTE=cccritical;49198101] yeah let's sit for however many hundreds of hours until we finally get that drop, or pay $2.50 a key to get something that can only be found in a crate it'd be kind of dumb to lock players out of classes until a variable amount of time is up, wouldn't it? how is it different for weapons? the impact may not be as drastic but the reduction in options and the model of paying for immediate access is still a blight[/QUOTE] The average player gets 7-8 weapon drops a week. Most of the really good weapons like Kritzkrieg + Ubersaw, jarate, Direct Hit Buff Banner etc are all weapons that can be unlocked by doing achievements. And if you don't get a weapon you want from drops, valve gives you an option to borrow a weapon from the store for a whole week free of charge (there's no limit on this either, so you can keep borrowing a weapon as long as you want) There's also plenty of websites like scrap.tf that will 1:1 trade any weapon in the game for you.

[QUOTE=DrCactus;49198146]The average player gets 7-8 weapon drops a week. Most of the really good weapons like Kritzkrieg + Ubersaw, jarate, Direct Hit Buff Banner etc are all weapons that can be unlocked by doing achievements. And if you don't get a weapon you want from drops, valve gives you an option to borrow a weapon from the store for a whole week free of charge (there's no limit on this either, so you can keep borrowing a weapon as long as you want) There's also plenty of websites like scrap.tf that will 1:1 trade any weapon in the game for you.[/QUOTE] this is why the tf2 system is so forgivable, it doesn't unbalance the game at all. no weapon in the game is unobtainable and is entirely free. The game was already finished, they simply converted it into a free to play game.

[QUOTE=DrCactus;49198146]The average player gets 7-8 weapon drops a week. Most of the really good weapons like Kritzkrieg + Ubersaw, jarate, Direct Hit Buff Banner etc are all weapons that can be unlocked by doing achievements. And if you don't get a weapon you want from drops, valve gives you an option to borrow a weapon from the store for a whole week free of charge (there's no limit on this either, so you can keep borrowing a weapon) There's also plenty of websites like scrap.tf that will 1:1 trade any weapon in the game for you.[/QUOTE] you can just borrow weapons now?? huh, it's been a long while since I've played tf2, didn't realize that's definitely a good step forward, but I still don't think you should have to rely on third parties (organized websites like that or random players to trade with) to permanently get what you want. I also think it's a shame that tf2's gameplay has been so grossly diluted and homogenized, where the sniper can become a close quarters effective character and the engineer loses all defensive options. I think it only came to that because valve saw an opportunity to make more money, and scrambled to come up with new weapons and abilities. It all started out so straightforward, a rock-paper-scissors game where only the occasional crit or a huge imbalance in skill would throw it off, but now it's a clusterfuck of revolvers with headshot damage and m2+axstinguisher I digress, I'm completely off the subject of the thread now, but I'd hate to see more games go this route, [i]especially[/i] when they start off as a single-purchase title. Early adopters end up getting shafted, even when the company behind the game has a good (or great) track record.

Valve's been currently on a roll with trying to balance the newer weapons out recently. Axtinguisher got a pretty notable nerf. But on the topic of KF2, I think it's [B]way[/B] too early to be doing this kinda nonsense. Earliest I'd think they should do it is like a year after they actually finish the game. I think that it's only fair to monetize future update content when the game has already been done and finished for a while. Right now it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth because most of the paid content that's currently in the game should be free to obtain, especially because this is a $30 game.

[QUOTE=DrCactus;49198219]Valve's been currently on a roll with trying to balance the newer weapons out recently. Axtinguisher got a pretty notable nerf. But on the topic of KF2, I think it's [B]way[/B] too early to be doing this kinda nonsense. Earliest I'd think they should do it is like a year after they actually finish the game. I think that it's only fair to monetize future update content when the game has already been done and finished for a while. Right now it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth because [B]most of the paid content that's currently in the game should be free to obtain, especially because this is a $30 game.[/B][/QUOTE] Philosophers have spent eons deciphering this cryptic scrawling.

I wonder if Tripwire needs more money to produce the game. Would you all be in favour of tripwire going under rather than having dread and truly evil microtransactions for purely cosmetic items? Unlike Overkill, these guys never promised there wouldn't be microtransactions. Hell, if you bought KF2, you blew 30$ down the drain, out the window, whatever, it's early access and you have NO guarantee that the game will ever be done.

[QUOTE=Mr_Ripper;49198227]Philosophers have spent eons deciphering this cryptic scrawling.[/QUOTE] Paid content in a $30 early access game is dumb. It's not that hard to figure out, but epic zinger dude!

buying a 30$ early access title in general is dumb

Does anyone own any Amiboo's? Cause owning 1 of those is a million times worse than buying microtransactions in my opinion. Toys that ARE microtransactions, that are utterly worthless, and incredibly rare. [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=DrCactus;49198244]Paid content in a $30 early access game is dumb. It's not that hard to figure out, but epic zinger dude![/QUOTE] yeah things ARE that black and white

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198252]Does anyone own any Amiboo's? Cause owning 1 of those is a million times worse than buying microtransactions in my opinion. Toys that ARE microtransactions, that are utterly worthless, and incredibly rare.[/QUOTE] at least you physically get something out of it and also they're made for games that are actually totally finished if anything Amiibo's are collectible toys that are also digitally usable. People buy amiibo's generally for the collectable-ness of it, not for the microtransactionness of it

Don't know if this has been posted here yet, but [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbdJUVzWP4Y[/media] 1 hour 58 minutes in.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198252]Does anyone own any Amiboo's? Cause owning 1 of those is a million times worse than buying microtransactions in my opinion. Toys that ARE microtransactions, that are utterly worthless, and incredibly rare. [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] yeah things ARE that black and white[/QUOTE] 1. I own amiibos, but I own them more because they're figures of characters I like. Most of the games I have that are amiibo compatible have relatively tame uses for them (Smash Bros for example) 2. Yes, it is that black and white in this case. The game is unfinished, there is no reason for them to be using microtransactions/dlc at this point of the game's life.

[QUOTE=J!NX;49198255]at least you physically get something out of it and also they're made for games that are actually totally finished if anything Amiibo's are collectible toys that are also digitally usable. People buy amiibo's generally for the collectable-ness of it, not for the microtransactionness of it[/QUOTE] They're literally 10 cents of crappy plastic and a microchip with a microtransaction. How is that better..? And yeah, they are for finished games. But they're still microtransactions. So apparently, like I initially thought, it isn't microtransactions that piss you people off because you'll apparently buy into them if they're dressed up nice enough for you [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=DrCactus;49198283]1. I own amiibos, but I own them more because they're figures of characters I like. Most of the games I have that are amiibo compatible have relatively tame uses for them (Smash Bros for example) 2. Yes, it is that black and white in this case. The game is unfinished, there is no reason for them to be using microtransactions/dlc at this point of the game's life.[/QUOTE] 1) So you're totally and utterly fine with microtransactions if they're by someone you like, and you get what is essentially, a few cents of plastic and almost as much virtual functionality? How is that worth it? 2) So if they're running out of money, you'd rather see them fail, disappear, say goodbye to your EA title, and never see KF2 be made further? Games are expensive and I feel like you people have NO concept of the financial element of them.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198286]They're literally 10 cents of crappy plastic and a microchip with a microtransaction. How is that better..? And yeah, they are for finished games. But they're still microtransactions. So apparently, like I initially thought, it isn't microtransactions that piss you people off because you'll apparently buy into them if they're dressed up nice enough for you[/QUOTE] the problem here is that you don't seem to understand what "CONTEXT" means Unfinished title getting micro transactions done instead of updating their game even though there are 1000 players at best VS [B]a finished game[/B] it's not the microtransactions, it's the fact that they didn't even finish the game yet [QUOTE]it isn't microtransactions that piss you people off[/QUOTE] yes, because my idealogy entirely summarizes everyone elses and I'm just like everyone else. I have no identity of my own.

[QUOTE=J!NX;49198294]the problem here is that you don't seem to understand what "CONTEXT" means Unfinished title getting micro transactions done instead of updating their game even though there are 1000 players at best VS [B]a finished game[/B] it's not the microtransactions, it's the fact that they didn't even finish the game yet[/QUOTE] its not like it's made by backend artists/devs that have nothing better to do

Like apparently, microtransactions when limited to a certain number of people(I mean how many of the rare amibo's are actually out there? Not many) through basically predatory marketing practices that negatively effects MOST of the players of those titles, APPARENTLY, that's fucking kosher. But god damn if you're not nintendo and you try that, you're the devil. I'm sorry, but the hypocrisy is so fucking thick.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198308]But god damn if you're not nintendo and you try that, you're the devil. I'm sorry, but the hypocrisy is so fucking thick.[/QUOTE] what the fuck are you even arguing. You're just sort of throwing shit around and acting like people fall under a certain mentality towards it. [B]almost as if you don't get the fucking point.[/B] it's not the fact that it's cosmetic items that don't effect the game, it's the fact that it's an unfinished game.

[QUOTE=J!NX;49198294]the problem here is that you don't seem to understand what "CONTEXT" means Unfinished title getting micro transactions done instead of updating their game even though there are 1000 players at best VS [B]a finished game[/B] it's not the microtransactions, it's the fact that they didn't even finish the game yet yes, because my idealogy entirely summarizes everyone elses and I'm just like everyone else. I have no identity of my own.[/QUOTE] Neither do you would it seem. These microtransactions, cosmetics, aren't going to effect development. Why? Because when they announced this, they also announced bosses and other content, but people such as yourself saw this and said "Well now they're just purely gouging us and not even working on the game" which is at least half false. A finished game that some people never get to enjoy in the same way as other because of a limited supply? And that's something you're defending and lauding? How? Why? For what reasons?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198317]Neither do you would it seem. These microtransactions, cosmetics, aren't going to effect development.[/QUOTE] [B]THE GAME ISN'T OUT YET[/B] that's how it's a problem

[QUOTE=J!NX;49198314]what the fuck are you even arguing. You're just sort of throwing shit around and acting like people fall under a certain mentality towards it. [B]almost as if you don't get the fucking point.[/B] it's not the fact that it's cosmetic items that don't effect the game, it's the fact that it's an unfinished game.[/QUOTE] But like I've said, idk, maybe 3 times now and been ignored EVERY FUCKING TIME MAYBE, they need money? Maybe it's this or kiss KF2 goodbye? Maybe they're doing this so they don't have to fire their artists as most companies usually do once they're done with them? Maybe there's reasons? [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;49198325][B]THE GAME ISN'T OUT YET[/B] that's how it's a problem[/QUOTE] I'm done. If you want to ignore me, and the arguments in front of you to repeat yourself ad nauseum, be my guest, but I made it clear why there's a reasons why the game not being done yet isn't a sole reason to go ape shit nuclear on them. Maybe they need fucking money to finish the game because smart people don't buy EA titles and wait til the games done? Maybe they were banking on people buying in early to fully fund the game? maybe there's reasons beyond what has been tossed around in this thread?