TotalBiscuit will now talk about microtransactions for just under 25 minutes - General

[QUOTE=J!NX;49198314]what the fuck are you even arguing. You're just sort of throwing shit around and acting like people fall under a certain mentality towards it. [B]almost as if you don't get the fucking point.[/B][/QUOTE] No, you don't get the fucking point. Tripwire put this shit out for some extra revenue and some extra stuff for the players. It was put into action by back end coders and artists that would be [B]OUT OF A FUCKING JOB[/B] if they hadn't found something to be put towards. It's totally (wait for it) [B]OPTIONAL[/B] and you don't need to even fucking have that shit in your inventory. Maybe they need the extra money to finish the game, because in case you didn't know, games aren't cheap to make, especially with the amount of effort they pour into their animations for the weapons.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198242]I wonder if Tripwire needs more money to produce the game. Would you all be in favour of tripwire going under rather than having dread and truly evil microtransactions for purely cosmetic items? Unlike Overkill, these guys never promised there wouldn't be microtransactions. Hell, if you bought KF2, you blew 30$ down the drain, out the window, whatever, it's early access and you have NO guarantee that the game will ever be done.[/QUOTE] I mean I know when I said this, I know you couldn't have read it. I know that, because this post contains the answers to your rage of 'WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT OMG!'

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198286]They're literally 10 cents of crappy plastic and a microchip with a microtransaction. How is that better..? And yeah, they are for finished games. But they're still microtransactions. So apparently, like I initially thought, it isn't microtransactions that piss you people off because you'll apparently buy into them if they're dressed up nice enough for you [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] 1) So you're totally and utterly fine with microtransactions if they're by someone you like, and you get what is essentially, a few cents of plastic and almost as much virtual functionality? How is that worth it? 2) So if they're running out of money, you'd rather see them fail, disappear, say goodbye to your EA title, and never see KF2 be made further? Games are expensive and I feel like you people have NO concept of the financial element of them.[/QUOTE] 1. I actually don't mind microtransactions when they're cosmetic. But I think you don't quite understand why I buy Amiibo. I buy them because they're figures of characters I like that rarely ever get merchandise. I don't care about the in game functionality, especially because most of the games I play that use them don't really paywall anything (all smash bros use them for is ai buddies) 2. They're not running out of money though? KF2 was one of the top selling steam games the month it came out for EA. The Zedconomy doesn't even help them much because most of the proceeds will go to the workshop users who made the skins/hats. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198308]Like apparently, microtransactions when limited to a certain number of people(I mean how many of the rare amibo's are actually out there? Not many) through basically predatory marketing practices that negatively effects MOST of the players of those titles, APPARENTLY, that's fucking kosher. But god damn if you're not nintendo and you try that, you're the devil. I'm sorry, but the hypocrisy is so fucking thick.[/QUOTE] It's not fine though. I'm not denying that paywalling content behind certain amiibos is an unfair marketing decision. But most of the amiibo shortages have been sorted out, and honestly most of the now "rare" amiibos don't have much exclusive functionality anymore, especially with nintendo making amiibo cards now as cheap alternatives. If Nintendo made an early access game with micro transactions, I wouldn't be happy.

[QUOTE=Mr_Ripper;49198333]No, you don't get the fucking point. Tripwire put this shit out for some extra revenue and some extra stuff for the players. It was put into action by back end coders and artists that would be [B]OUT OF A FUCKING JOB[/B] if they hadn't found something to be put towards. It's totally (wait for it) [B]OPTIONAL[/B] and you don't need to even fucking have that shit in your inventory. Maybe they need the extra money to finish the game, because in case you didn't know, games aren't cheap to make, especially with the amount of effort they pour into their animations for the weapons.[/QUOTE] Then why not put it out as packs? Give $2 for this set and done. Why the fucking crate system? Oh yeah, because it's easier to exploit people who want a rare drop that way.

[QUOTE=DrCactus;49198338]1. I actually don't mind microtransactions when they're cosmetic. But I think you don't quite understand why I buy Amiibo. I buy them because they're figures of characters I like that rarely ever get merchandise. I don't care about the in game functionality, especially because most of the games I play that use them don't really paywall anything (all smash bros use them for is ai buddies) 2. They're not running out of money though? KF2 was one of the top selling steam games the month it came out for EA. The Zedconomy doesn't even help them much because most of the proceeds will go to the workshop users who made the skins/hats.[/QUOTE] Okay so then why is it an issue at all then? How do you people perceive this as an issue that will effect the games development? If their artists aren't even doing it, then how does this effect game development at all? How is that argument going to hold up when it's not even one that's self consistent? Is it solely the nature of it being EA? I don't think it being Early Access makes it purely wrong to sell these things. Selling a game in EA in the first place is risky business for the customer and you honestly shouldn't buy into it. [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=kilerabv;49198348]Then why not put it out as packs? Give $2 for this set and done. Why the fucking crate system? Oh yeah, because it's easier to exploit people who want a rare drop that way.[/QUOTE] yes of course they looked at a wildly popular title that's succeeding with that system Why wouldn't you do that? How is it inconceivable that the game industry looks at things like CSGO and says "well it's working for them, lets try it"? CSGO is so highly played and so highly lauded and it's crate system is still not even that big of a deal. I think it's a bad way to go because it personally pushes me out of the game and I don't want to be involved with it, but really, how do you not expect companies to adopt succesful business plans for themselves?

[QUOTE=DrCactus;49198338]1. I actually don't mind microtransactions when they're cosmetic. But I think you don't quite understand why I buy Amiibo. I buy them because they're figures of characters I like that rarely ever get merchandise. I don't care about the in game functionality, especially because most of the games I play that use them don't really paywall anything (all smash bros use them for is ai buddies) [/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/qVTS9xC.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/AJXvfFh.png[/t]

So instead of working on putting more updates out so that more people will buy it, they instead have the artists work on micro transaction systems instead and fund that portion of the game instead it sounds like they don't have money because they had a huge burst of it when they killed in sales and because they don't know how to budget their game any more. that's why it's a huge issue for a game that isn't out. and the reason I keep "Saying the same thing" is because you don't understand my point in "Yes, it actually IS different than Nintendo" and pretend its exactly the same thing. As if smash needs artists at all now. [QUOTE=Mr_Ripper;49198374][t]http://i.imgur.com/qVTS9xC.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/AJXvfFh.png[/t][/QUOTE] It's not about how "Optional" it is. It's not about who makes it. Its not about how it's identical to CS:GO's market. It's not about it being cosmetic, at all. It's not about the micro transaction it's not about the market. it's not about who makes it. Should I continue?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198242]I wonder if Tripwire needs more money to produce the game. Would you all be in favour of tripwire going under rather than having dread and truly evil microtransactions for purely cosmetic items? Unlike Overkill, these guys never promised there wouldn't be microtransactions. Hell, if you bought KF2, you blew 30$ down the drain, out the window, whatever, it's early access and you have NO guarantee that the game will ever be done.[/QUOTE] id rather tripwire go under than see yet another microtransaction filled game. just like in any other industry, if you make a bad product, you lose money. if you lose too much money, you go out of business. but if youre a developer, when you make a bad product, just fill it with microtransactions. [URL="https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/the-whales-of-microtransactions-and-the-elephant-in-the-room"]someone, somewhere[/URL] [I]will[/I] buy them for some reason. and when people dont like it, call them entitled. tell everyone youre a poor starving artist, and youll have swathes of people defending you and your money grubbing practices. this kind of shit wouldnt fly in any other industry -- so why do we have to put up with it here?

[QUOTE=Mr_Ripper;49198374][t]http://i.imgur.com/qVTS9xC.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/AJXvfFh.png[/t][/QUOTE] In their FAQ page they also note that they may put "side grade" weapons into the crates as well. Considering how TWI considers broken shit like the Bezerker Xbow, the flares and the Steam Musket (a literal upgrade to the LAR), it's not going to be only cosmetic, especially with stuff like the chivalry sword being paywalled behind owning the game, and is currently the best zerker melee in the game. But nice try

[QUOTE=J!NX;49198391]So instead of working on putting more updates out so that more people will buy it, they instead have the artists work on micro transaction systems instead and fund that portion of the game instead it sounds like they don't have money because they had a huge burst of it when they killed in sales and because they don't know how to budget their game any more. that's why it's a huge issue for a game that isn't out. and the reason I keep "Saying the same thing" is because you don't understand my point in "Yes, it actually IS different than Nintendo" and pretend its exactly the same thing. As if smash needs artists at all now. It's not about how "Optional" it is. It's not about who makes it. Its not about how it's identical to CS:GO's market. It's not about it being cosmetic, at all. It's not about the micro transaction it's not about the market. it's not about who makes it. Should I continue?[/QUOTe] good lord almighty backend artists and coders that literally have nothing else to do too many chefs spoil the broth fucking BROOKS LAW

actually you know what, imma screenshot all the posts saying "completely optional, cosmetic only" and when they inevitably break that rule, im gonna laugh at how so many people said "its only skins, bruh"

[QUOTE=DrCactus;49198442]In their FAQ page they also note that they may put "side grade" weapons into the crates as well. Considering how TWI considers broken shit like the Bezerker Xbow, the flares and the Steam Musket (a literal upgrade to the LAR), it's not going to be only cosmetic, especially with stuff like the chivalry sword being paywalled behind owning the game, and is currently the best zerker melee in the game. But nice try[/QUOTE] Well at least this argument has a reasonable point. Y'know, except TF2 gets away with the same thing.

[QUOTE=Mr_Ripper;49198450]good lord almighty backend artists and coders that literally have nothing else to do too many chefs spoil the broth fucking BROOKS LAW[/QUOTE] only in this case, there aren't enough chefs on the stew because the others are off doing other things

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49198454]actually you know what, imma screenshot all the posts saying "completely optional, cosmetic only" and when they inevitably break that rule, im gonna laugh at how so many people said "its only skins, bruh"[/QUOTE] THEN you'll actually have ground to stand on.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49198454]actually you know what, imma screenshot all the posts saying "completely optional, cosmetic only" and when they inevitably break that rule, im gonna laugh at how so many people said "its only skins, bruh"[/QUOTE] I'm just bookmarking these threads.

[QUOTE=Mr_Ripper;49198456]Well at least this argument has a reasonable point. Y'know, except TF2 gets away with the same thing.[/QUOTE] I want to love tf2 more and I like the weapons system, hats are cool but when is enough e-fucking-nough the game wasn't team fortress after a point. it LITERALLY WAS a hat simulator. it's still fun but it encompasses the community so much, like just play the game lol at the same time tf2 gets away with it because artists literally don't have anything to do. Killing floors updates are being possibly held back by it.

[QUOTE=Mr_Ripper;49198456]Well at least this argument has a reasonable point. Y'know, except TF2 gets away with the same thing.[/QUOTE] We literally had the exact same discussion on the last page. TF2 offers various free alternatives to get every weapon in the game. for now, TWI has not listed any way to get them without paying money, or finding somebody with money. If they give us ways to get weapons for free, then I won't mind.

In my opinion, microtransactions have always been and will always be shit, no matter if they're cosmetic only or if they affect the stats. The reason? Simple, it has a huge, irreversible influence on how the game is developed. Ask anyone in the TF2 community what weapons and hats are currently broken either in terms of models, or in terms of gameplay mechanics, and you'll get a pretty long list handed to you. Yes they're still updating the game, and every now and then you'll get a fix and some updates in terms of gameplay. But the clear focus of most updates is cosmetic items, ESPECIALLY the gambling aspect introduced by the crates, the contents of which are also tiered by rarity now. Microtransactions are a deal with the devil. You gain long-term support in exchange for half-assed updates whose main focus is on the devs getting loads of money. For particular developers this can also mean a stagnation in getting new games made -- why make a new game when you can earn much more by adding a bunch of paid skins to your old ones? (I still think Payday is worse than Killing Floor in this aspect. Overkill's track record is far worse)

honest question: would any of the people defending this buy the oblivion horse armor? im legit curious to know, because i remember years ago facepunch [B]hated[/B] it, and now theres so many people defending literally the same thing, in every other game. i mean, everyone knows bethesda is a studio full of starving artists, so it makes sense theyd release a cosmetic only™ dlc so that they can afford to make a sequel, right?

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49198468]nothing else to do? dude its in early access they have plenty to do and stop flaunting around brook's law, i don't think he had videogames in mind when talking about multiple people typing shit into a single file[/QUOTE] You cannot throw all your coders on one thing because you start to get inconsistent coding.

I think that if its something like robocraft it's honestly ok you can actually upgrade your robot at a pretty ok speed without buying the premium account. The game is free to play. The thing about robocraft is that all their funding is from the ingame money, and the game is TOTALLY FREE OTHERWISE, and yet robocraft has an active and booming dev team that is churning out some pretty big updates. No money is being spent on a microtransactions system. There isn't an alternate team like in KF2 who are only building items for the market. They're working on the game. unless they hit a huge development snag, come release robocraft will be a well funded, successful game that used early access properly. Robocraft even now, if it was released, would stand on its own fairly alright for some time. the "Cosmetics" they have is literally like a half or so page long, and like most of them are flags. They're clearly for people that want to support development.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49198454]actually you know what, imma screenshot all the posts saying "completely optional, cosmetic only" and when they inevitably break that rule, im gonna laugh at how so many people said "its only skins, bruh"[/QUOTE] They're saying it is, and they've never said they wouldn't do this. I'm not invested in it because I'm never going to buy into it. If I'm wrong, then oh well, I was wrong about a companies motives to sell a product. Oh no. How horrible I feel now.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49198454]actually you know what, imma screenshot all the posts saying "completely optional, cosmetic only" and when they inevitably break that rule, im gonna laugh at how so many people said "its only skins, bruh"[/QUOTE] can't wait to do the same thing for the overwatch thread

[QUOTE=Zannabluke;49198559]can't wait to do the same thing for the overwatch thread[/QUOTE] we can speculate all we like, it doesn't mean we're right. If a game like Overwatch charges for game altering things, that game will die, and they know that.

I mean I just don't know how a multiplayer only game of ANY sort, KF, Overwatch, Siege, Battlefront, etc, I don't see how ANY game like that can last for a long time, as long as we as players want them to last, if we only pay once, and expect ALL SUPPORT to be free. I just don't know how those companies can make money doing that, and if they don't make money doing that, guess what? You won't ever play those types of games because they won't exist.

i actually have no idea what overwatch plans to do in regards to that tbh. last i heard is that it was ambiguous still. if they decide to do that, then ill bitch about that too. i dont see why people are going through my posts and steam profile like theyre gonna call me out on my hypocrisy, when ive held all games to the same standards lol

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49198579] nah they could charge for characters and the game would still live, blizzard can make anything work[/QUOTE] No that games balance is entirely determined by everyone on the team being able to switch to any character at any time to balance the teams for the situation. That game will be broken if you have to buy characters because the games balance is BUILT around the concept of switching mid match to make something new work. I'll be buying into Overwatch but the second it's not cosmetic only I'm out with a vengeance.

The double edged sword of early access is that there are too many games that never get finished, or get released and abandoned, and that's entirely why people are so pissed about microtransactions in a paid 'beta' game. just look at Loadout, and gear up. Great games, devs stopped giving a shit. And then there are currently early access games that use "ITS ALPHA" as an excuse for lazy devs. we would have never gotten some pretty amazing games that exist now, but developers have previously funded games without early access. Early access being, lets say, totally killed off, wouldn't honestly hurt the market.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49198604]well mobas do it all the time, and since we're only just now seeing a resurgence of class based shooters, i think it's safe to say that they aren't at least thinking about making paid characters[/QUOTE] the difference is that in mobas, youre locked into a character for the whole game. in overwatch, you can change on the fly, like in tf2. but that doesnt excuse the way mobas lock you out of characters. i fucking hate that idea, and i have no idea how a piece of shit game like league has gotten so big when its based around one of the greediest monetization systems ive ever had the displeasure of seeing lol

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49198604]well mobas do it all the time, and since we're only just now seeing a resurgence of class based shooters, i think it's safe to say that they aren't at least thinking about making paid characters[/QUOTE] Yeah but this isn't a moba and the game just doesn't work if you can't switch characters, it just doesn't. listen to the "pros" of that game and listen to the people who've played it a lot, and play it yourself, because the balance of that game is straight up FUCKED and the game is DEAD if they sell characters. It won't work. It won't. It's not like a MOBA. MOBA's give you 20 characters who fill similar roles but are unique enough. This isn't that. This doesn't work like that.