[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;50608073]From Max on the Youtube page. Not much to complain about if they know about all the little niggles.[/QUOTE]
Cool, I'll patiently wait for more stuff to come along. Didn't realize it was an alpha!
I also hope they ditch the door code on the wall in blood. Logs and emails were a big part of the game and I would hate to see their significance lowered to just world builders. I don't think you can even leave the first room in the original without checking your email for the door code.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50608069]Yeah, but when I'm looking at them nothing is really being established with them. I'm staring at a chip - why does it matter? I read the text on the screen pretty quickly... can we move on?
I think it would be more interesting if something really important was on it, and from a cinematography perspective importance was drawn to it, i.e. a close-up of maybe some text on it or something that hints of it's significance. Instead, he awkwardly holds it in front of his face for some time that seems unnatural and slow, paired with text that kind of removes both authenticity in immersion as well as any real reason to drag it out that long.
Dunno! Maybe I'm a crazy nitpicker. It's an option. And if it's limited to only these few items it's not a big deal, I guess. But I think if game developers are going to start putting more emphasis on cinematography, they should go full force with consideration given to pacing, symbolism, etc. And I feel like they should focus a lot more on the gameplay too, which I don't think was really explored all that much. System Shock II covers a lot of ground with it's gameplay and I think it could have done a lot better with pumping you up and getting you to want to play it - it's got a lot that I think it could show without spoiling so much.[/QUOTE]
I think it's meant to be more of a nostalgia pump than anything of significance. This is the first System Shock, which for those of us who played it, was very lackluster in the department of graphic appeal and left a lot to the imagination.
It's kinda like in the new Doom when doomguy picks up his helmet. We've seen it before but only as a 2D sprite.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;50608111]I think it's meant to be more of a nostalgia pump than anything of significance. This is the first System Shock, which for those of us who played it, was very lackluster in the department of graphic appeal and left a lot to the imagination.
It's kinda like in the new Doom when doomguy picks up his helmet. We've seen it before but only as a 2D sprite.[/QUOTE]
But I think the difference is effectiveness and, again, effective cinematography blending with gameplay. It's not super intrusive and it's executed well. But discovering that this is in alpha kind of puts me off criticizing too harshly about it, and I do hope the animations evolve. As it stands, it's a lot of awkward pausing, and I think they can improve!
Those animations are awful, gee lets make a remaster, to show our new detail lets give the MC jelly fingers. I blame max.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;50608254]Those animations are awful, gee lets make a remaster, to show our new detail lets give the MC jelly fingers. I blame max.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't be surprised if it was Max considering he tweeted a video of him messing around with a Mocap Glove that he got.
i dont mind the animations for pick ups what does bug me is that weak ass swing with the pipe who the hell swings something like a pipe whole holding just under the head its totally ineffevtive and honesltyly it looks amateurish comlared to the fancy pick up animations
I wonder how the completely redone opening video looks
[QUOTE=Cows Rule;50608090]I also hope they ditch the door code on the wall in blood. Logs and emails were a big part of the game and I would hate to see their significance lowered to just world builders. I don't think you can even leave the first room in the original without checking your email for the door code.[/QUOTE]
This was done to make sure Polygon wouldn't miss it.
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50607370]Yeah, on second thought I think it's the quality of the animations that are off-putting. A lot of them appear to be just gazing at objects which doesn't really add anything. They could go all out with describing the shit of what those objects are with lots of intercom audio or fancy on-screen text or whatever - as it stands though, it's just mindless gazing that doesn't look so good. It could go further and add to the game play a lot, but in its current state it just wastes time. It's not doing any immersion.
You could redo them to make them faster and better for story telling.[/QUOTE]
Polygon's build is from over ten days ago; a lot of those concerns were addressed in the version of the alpha demo that everyone will be able to download on the Kickstarter page.
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Vaegir Guard;50607838]The only things i disliked were the length of the recharge animation from the power station and the lack of an option to change the sparq beam settings.[/QUOTE]
You can absolutely change the power settings on the Sparq Beam, Polygon just didn't do it.
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50606968]I really don't get people's problems with the animations. They look just fine and it's nice to have something to look at while there's some downtime such as listening to the intro.[/QUOTE]
Thanks! That's mostly why they're in there. I've actually shortened them right after we sent the build to Polygon. The plan is to have a short "inspect" animation for important items while also having text on-screen that describes the item and its primary features (this is in place for the Kickstarter demo)
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50608143]But I think the difference is effectiveness and, again, effective cinematography blending with gameplay. It's not super intrusive and it's executed well. But discovering that this is in alpha kind of puts me off criticizing too harshly about it, and I do hope the animations evolve. As it stands, it's a lot of awkward pausing, and I think they can improve![/QUOTE]
Thanks! This was put together by pretty much a skeleton crew (me and three other core people), and a lot of the work was spent on underlying frameworks which is obviously not something you can showcase.
Also FYI you can still move and look around during those inspect animations!
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Downsider;50605740]It's a shame they're sticking to the original level geometry so heavily when they're putting so much effort into everything else. The cheap tile-based, grid-like layouts lack setpieces and make it look like an FPSCreator game at points.
At the same time, I kind of like that they're staying super true to the source material, though. I won't feel guilty about playing this without having played SS1.[/QUOTE]
Our intention is to stay close to the original level geometry "for now" because it provides a good point of reference to compare the rooms in the original vs. our remake. Later on we'll be able to take more creative liberties with the level design. It's like dipping your toe in a pool to check the temperature.
[QUOTE=spekter;50607628]Yet they somehow regressed to having to actually punch in codes with the crosshair instead of doing what literally every other game with keypads does and having a small GUI which is much faster and easier to use.[/QUOTE]
This will be changed.
i mean i can understand why people would have problems with the animations but i'm really getting the feeling most people are [I]really fucking targeting[/I] those animations [I]JUST [/I]because max is involved in that process. like i get it, they are pretty obnoxious at points but I really don't think they're worth 70% of the commentary here. i feel like there's a lot more you can discuss about this.
especially considering in the way that polygon was playing the game, i'm guessing you don't actually have to come to a dead stop for the observing animations. more importantly, I think for the kind of style they're going with for this game, the animations being very slow do fit in with the kind of brooding atmosphere they're going for. albiet i've never played the original game, but it all seems to fit into place from what I can see here. though the rubbery fingers should definitely be tied up more, they're my only real complaint on this very minor feature of an otherwise fantastic looking demo.
oh hey max
fucking automerge whyyy
[QUOTE=mlebled;50608447]This was done to make sure Polygon wouldn't miss it.
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
Polygon's build is from over ten days ago; a lot of those concerns were addressed in the version of the alpha demo that everyone will be able to download on the Kickstarter page.
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
You can absolutely change the power settings on the Sparq Beam, Polygon just didn't do it.
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
Thanks! That's mostly why they're in there. I've actually shortened them right after we sent the build to Polygon. The plan is to have a short "inspect" animation for important items while also having text on-screen that describes the item and its primary features (this is in place for the Kickstarter demo)
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
Thanks! This was put together by pretty much a skeleton crew (me and three other core people), and a lot of the work was spent on underlying frameworks which is obviously not something you can showcase.
Also FYI you can still move and look around during those inspect animations!
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
Our intention is to stay close to the original level geometry "for now" because it provides a good point of reference to compare the rooms in the original vs. our remake. Later on we'll be able to take more creative liberties with the level design. It's like dipping your toe in a pool to check the temperature.[/QUOTE]
Is there a specific reason Polygon got the demo over everyone else?
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50606391]Honestly, I just wish this was getting a PS4 release. There's no way in hell my PC could handle this.[/QUOTE]
We have done a bit of optimization on the game so far, and I'm sure you'll be able to play it. That's why you have the demo to try out after all! My Surface Pro 4, which has a low-power i7 processor and an Intel Iris Pro 540 can get ~20fps at 720p and 45fps if I dial down the resolution further, which is rather encouraging given that we don't have "graphics options" implemented yet (meaning, it's as if everyone was running the game on High or whatever). When we'll have the manpower to optimize the game (and, well, actually make the whole thing first) it should be all good. 👌
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
Also, if you had concerns over the soundtrack: [url]https://twitter.com/jonathanperos/status/747644558184452096[/url]
What engine is it running on?
[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;50608516]What engine is it running on?[/QUOTE]
Unity 5.4
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;50608495]i mean i can understand why people would have problems with the animations but i'm really getting the feeling most people are [I]really fucking targeting[/I] those animations [I]JUST [/I]because max is involved in that process. like i get it, they are pretty obnoxious at points but I really don't think they're worth 70% of the commentary here. i feel like there's a lot more you can discuss about this.
especially considering in the way that polygon was playing the game, i'm guessing you don't actually have to come to a dead stop for the observing animations. more importantly, I think for the kind of style they're going with for this game, the animations being very slow do fit in with the kind of brooding atmosphere they're going for. albiet i've never played the original game, but it all seems to fit into place from what I can see here. though the rubbery fingers should definitely be tied up more, they're my only real complaint on this very minor feature of an otherwise fantastic looking demo.[/QUOTE]
I enjoy Max. He's got some terrible posts from being stubborn and a little pushy about his views but he's an alright dude. I follow him on Twitter, and he shares cool stuff from other game designers.
I just have a problem with his animations, and I gave my critique before realizing it was Max.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;50608495]especially considering in the way that polygon was playing the game, i'm guessing you don't actually have to come to a dead stop for the observing animations. more importantly, I think for the kind of style they're going with for this game, the animations being very slow do fit in with the kind of brooding atmosphere they're going for. albiet i've never played the original game, but it all seems to fit into place from what I can see here. though the rubbery fingers should definitely be tied up more, they're my only real complaint on this very minor feature of an otherwise fantastic looking demo.[/QUOTE]
You can actually still move and look around (albeit at a slower pace) while the first-time inspect/equip animations are taking place.
Also here's a webm of changing the setting on the Sparq from high to overload
[vid]https://giant.gfycat.com/ScalyAdolescentFawn.webm[/vid]
I hope that the intro from the original game will be recreated faithfully with the absolutely awesome theme song the original game had. Im okay with new songs being added into the soundtrack, I just hope the original songs will factor in somewhere.
Personally regarding the animations: Im okay with most of them, but yeah the pipe swinging animation could look alot less dainty. If anything, he could continue to hold it two handed but with the right hand being placed more downward on the pipe instead of right near the top of it. The recharge animation could be shorter too.
I suppose if anything art asset wise, i think some of them look slightly low quality either with their texture or polycount, and I hope that is addressed over time.
Orchestrated System Shock 2 would be great too. People might disagree with me on that, though, and I don't think they're wrong for disagreeing as much of the original was very electronic, but perhaps a happy medium can be met with ambient-electronic instruments at the forefront instead with more of an orchestral backdrop.
[media]https://soundcloud.com/blaketothefuture/system-shock-ii-engineering[/media]
[media]https://soundcloud.com/blaketothefuture/system-shock-ii-med-sci[/media]
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50608873]Orchestrated System Shock 2 would be great too. People might disagree with me on that, though, and I don't think they're wrong for disagreeing as much of the original was very electronic, but perhaps a happy medium can be met with ambient-electronic instruments at the forefront instead with more of an orchestral backdrop.
[media]https://soundcloud.com/blaketothefuture/system-shock-ii-engineering[/media]
[media]https://soundcloud.com/blaketothefuture/system-shock-ii-med-sci[/media][/QUOTE]
In my opinion anything orchestral at all doesn't fit the cyberpunk horror atmosphere of System Shock. It needs to be full electronic or ambient horror. Maybe not what sounds like dance music like SS2 had, but orcehstral stuff just misses the mark entirely.
[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50608887]In my opinion anything orchestral at all doesn't fit the cyberpunk horror atmosphere of System Shock. It needs to be full electronic or ambient horror. Maybe not what sounds like dance music like SS2 had, but orcehstral stuff just misses the mark entirely.[/QUOTE]
Maybe orchestral isn't the best way to portray what I'm thinking. I'm trying to think of how to describe what style I'm thinking of in my brain, with more of an avant-garde approach.
[video=youtube;2vvs4__2XRI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vvs4__2XRI[/video]
Maybe something like this - what I'm thinking of is something that still has the pulsating blood-pumping synthwork with some ambient stuff mixed in. It's not intrusive while still being exciting. I was thinking, "orchestrate synths" - make a big soundtrack sound using synths in the way an orchestra would compliment a movie.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;50608254]Those animations are awful, gee lets make a remaster, to show our new detail lets give the MC jelly fingers. I blame max.[/QUOTE]
I like to shit on max as much as the next person for his opinions but the animations fit with the character. Maybe a shortening on some of them is needed but for the most part they're pretty good. Don't just blindly hate on it because it was done by max.
[QUOTE=mlebled;50608511]We have done a bit of optimization on the game so far, and [B]I'm sure you'll be able to play it[/B].[/QUOTE]
This is why I rely on console ports.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5hsyk0o.png[/IMG]
You were saying?
So while everyone's focusing on the animations, am I the only one who isn't a fan of the overall art style? IMO they're trying to recreate the SS1 look a bit too faithfully. It's like they literally took all the original textures as a template and then made the new ones look as close as possible, just in higher resolution.
I thought that technological limitations played a pretty big role in the original art style. The artists had tiny texture resolutions and limited color palettes to work with, so they did the best they could with what they had. The textures were meant to be displayed without any sort of filtering applied. And they came up with art that worked well within the boundaries of that primitive 3D engine.
When you try to directly copy the same art style into a modern engine that's capable of achieving near photorealism, it just looks weird. You don't need to stick to mostly rectangular patterns anymore just because they neatly align with the pixel-grid. You don't need to keep the same funky colors that were used in the original game. So why do it? I'm not saying they should make everything look completely different, but they could easily take a bit more artistic liberty and try to make something that's better suited for higher levels of detail and modern rendering techniques.
[QUOTE=pebkac;50610272]So while everyone's focusing on the animations, am I the only one who isn't a fan of the overall art style? IMO they're trying to recreate the SS1 look a bit too faithfully. It's like they literally took all the original textures as a template and then made the new ones look as close as possible, just in higher resolution.
I thought that technological limitations played a pretty big role in the original art style. The artists had tiny texture resolutions and limited color palettes to work with, so they did the best they could with what they had. The textures were meant to be displayed without any sort of filtering applied. And they came up with art that worked well within the boundaries of that primitive 3D engine.
When you try to directly copy the same art style into a modern engine that's capable of achieving near photorealism, it just looks weird. You don't need to stick to mostly rectangular patterns anymore just because they neatly align with the pixel-grid. You don't need to keep the same funky colors that were used in the original game. So why do it? I'm not saying they should make everything look completely different, but they could easily take a bit more artistic liberty and try to make something that's better suited for higher levels of detail and modern rendering techniques.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=mlebled;50608447]Our intention is to stay close to the original level geometry "for now" because it provides a good point of reference to compare the rooms in the original vs. our remake. Later on we'll be able to take more creative liberties with the level design. It's like dipping your toe in a pool to check the temperature.[/QUOTE]
come on man it's right on the last page
I've never played system shock but graphically, this does not look like a game from 2016.
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
although some of the webm's in the thread make it look much better somehow
Never played the first game, but I'm hoping the visual style will be lore-consistent if/when the time comes to take on System Shock 2. The 2nd game always felt dirtier to me, sci-fi of a harsher sort of mood. Maybe it was just the old style polygonal lighting.
I dunno, I'm just hoping they'll be able to move to the 2nd game without the visual style having this dramatic tonal shift, making them feel less like the same series.
[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;50610424]In which way though? Stylistically or fidelity wise? (Pretty obvious)
Stylistically it's supposed to be pretty much 1:1 with the original.[/QUOTE]
the graphics look more 2011-2012 to me in the OP video
[QUOTE=mlebled;50608570]You can actually still move and look around (albeit at a slower pace) while the first-time inspect/equip animations are taking place.
Also here's a webm of changing the setting on the Sparq from high to overload
[vid]https://giant.gfycat.com/ScalyAdolescentFawn.webm[/vid][/QUOTE]
When setting it to overload it should look and feel more powerful. You should keep that discharging electric and smoke at all times while it's set to overcharged, or at least have some sort of cosmetic change. and the animation going into it should feel more forceful. He's just turning a small knob to overload the gun? Put a bit more of stylistic yet simplistic thought to the animation there.
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