Closed book exams are fucking pointless(especially in College)

[Number-41]

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27410186]That really doesn't apply to shit like calculus where if you need to know the indefinite integral of something you could just look it up in your book. You need to develop the comfort with them to do them in your sleep and blindfolded.

Although I don't know what sort of handicap blindfolding really provides when you're already sleeping.[/QUOTE]

Ughh we have to learn all these damn mean value theorems & shit, they're nice and all but don't want to learn them by heart :(

[Sir Tristan]

My lowest exam grade for the fall semester, exams which I finished taking the last of yesterday, was a 96. I don't see why the extreme inconvenience of sitting in front of a book for an hour a day entices such whining from people. Sometimes I think people fail to realize that their entire future depends on something as easy as spending half of their social networking and video game time to study.

[Andaeeee]

I guess it sorta makes sense because you need to prove that some of the information has sunk into your mind so that you can recall it without the need of a book, but I still agree.

[PvtCupcakes]

[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;27407290]What are you going to do when you need knowledge, and you don't have anything to look it up from? That's what closed book exams are for, you need to learn how to retain knowledge, when all information sources are all unavailable.[/QUOTE]

When's that going to happen?
I'm a programmer. I sit at my desk all day and Google whatever I need to find out.

[editline]14th January 2011[/editline]

I Google a lot of stuff multiple times because I don't memorize it the first time.

[AWarGuy]

I have the freakish ability to absorb/retain my knowledge of history.

[Kingy_who]

[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy18;27409493]I really couldn't care less because I ace every exam anyway

And I don't even study :smug:[/QUOTE]

You shouldn't need to study for primary school exams.

[BrickInTheHead]

i'm guessing you're a first semester freshman taking either history courses or sciences like chemistry, biology, etc; those exams that are very specific and fact based as opposed to the more parsimonious things like political science, english, and anthropology

i'd like to welcome you to your college experience. exams are designed to test your knowledge of the course. College trains you to be a professional, to be experienced in the field of your choice. If someone asked you a question and you opened up a book to answer it, there would be no difference between you and some random schmuck that's never taken the course and is given the book. A goddamn middle schooler could use the index.

The specifics that they ask you on exams for the more liberal schools of education (aka all BA programs as opposed to BS) are there so that you have a backup to explain general trends and themes. They're on the exam so you think they're important, and you garner a better understanding of the topic as a whole.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Magick;27409339]I can't even remember the last time I took an open note/book test. Writing notes helps you to remember them, and most teachers/professors recommend that you re-write your notes the night before an exam as to remember them better.

Like previous posts have stated, anyone can open a book and copy the answer directly from it. But this process takes time, and some kids will spend too much time looking for an answer and not finish the rest of the test. Having closed note tests prepares you for timed tests, like the ACT or SAT, where you need to be able to answer questions quickly.

I have noticed in my classes that my exams are not based on remembering single facts, but on remembering major concepts and applying them to a problem.

for example, in my physics class last year, and my AP physics class this year, my teacher gives us every formula and constant that we need on a piece of paper for every test. But due to the fact that we use the equations over and over again, we end up memorizing them, which is needed, because on the AP test the multiple choice section is to be done with out equation sheet or calculator.

Also, taking closed book/notes tests helps to delay the effects of Alzheimer’s.[/QUOTE]

The ACT is bullshit anyways(for me at least). It said I had horrible math skills and needed to retake basic math in college. I go to college and take basic math, I learn NOTHING. The stuff I had problems with on the ACT were covered in College Math!

[Sykez]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27407219]Exams, we have all had them right? Right? Well, some of us have, those of you that haven't should probably go to school or something. Exams are an excellent way to gauge how much you have retained the knowledge that was presented to you in class, but in some cases they seem to be layered up in traditional bullshit.

The worst of these traditions is having it be closed book/closed notes. The whole point of a class and college in general is to train you to be able to not only hold knowledge, but know how to seek it out. That is why many papers tell you that you must have a certain number of sources(that aren't wikipedia). Why you are supposed to read through textbooks and also why teachers will have you go online to find supplementary material. Closed book exams totally defeat this purpose.(for the remainder of the thread I use the term closed book to refer to closed book and closed note exams)

Hear me out on this. I am in general a pretty smart person. However, I pay attention to too much stuff at once for a short amount of time to be able to retain important ideas and information sometimes(is that ADD? I have no clue). However, I can be a wiz at seeking information that I need out of a book or text. If you hand me a history book and tell me to find out what the name of some guy who did this thing at this time, I can probably find it within 5 minutes. I can pretty much ctrl + F a book by skimming incredibly fast looking for keywords. This isn't to brag, I think this is the best way to have knowledge.

[b]Why should you memorize history when books have it already recorded down for you when you need it?[/b]

This isn't a stab at history, this goes for any field. Why should I be forced to memorize the voltage, impedance, and signal:noise ratio of a Shure SM57 when I have documents that I can pull up in a moment's notice with that information when I need it? Sure, it's nice to have the information on hand sometimes(you want to know how to do basic algebra in your head for instance), but for most shit it is just plain unnecessary and from a "data storage" standpoint, you are filling your head with un-needed data when you could be putting in more useful information instead(instead of specifics, why not take the lesson of why something in history happened and the effects?).

Open book tests your general knowledge, since most exams generally want you to elaborate on stuff anyways. However, it also tests your ability to sift through piles of unneeded data to find the bit you are looking for as well. Open note serves another function as well, it tests your ability to take notes, and also refines it. You know you fucking suck if you fail an open note exam. This teaches you how to effectively take notes, which goes way beyond college, and goes into any field where you constantly have to keep up with new technology and techniques.

I will leave on a low note. Closed book exams are BULLSHIT!

[img_thumb]http://www.casinosnob.com/archives/pictures/Penn_and_Teller.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]

Oh you need brain surgery? Let me just look up on the internet real quick on how to accomplish this, don't worry, I am a professional searcher up-er.

You're retarded.

[Swilly]

I just hate the fact some college courses seem to ignore the fact that you'll never work alone. Like in my old Pre-calc and Calculus classes when I know for a fact that in the real world we're going to be working with others so why not help advance cooperation :v:

[editline]14th January 2011[/editline]

I also hate the fact the Calculus exams aren't more visual because I suck without visuals.

[larrylumpy]

[QUOTE=Sykez;27420584]Oh you need brain surgery? Let me just look up on the internet real quick on how to accomplish this, don't worry, I am a professional searcher up-er.

You're retarded.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure he was more of using the context of history. The situation you presented is completely different.
For history and theory and things like that it's more of a why than what/ when. For something hands on and that important like surgery, yea you should know what you're doing by heart. But the thing is, why should I memorize 20 formulas when I could have a piece of paper next to me to refer to? Now when you train to become an engineer or physicist yea, sure maybe it would be a good idea to memorize it, but other wise? waste of time

[T.F.W.O.]

We live in an age where knowledge is instantly accessible. I concur, teaching memorization is quite silly now a days.

[ExplodingGuy]

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;27415505]When's that going to happen?
I'm a programmer. I sit at my desk all day and Google whatever I need to find out.

[editline]14th January 2011[/editline]

I Google a lot of stuff multiple times because I don't memorize it the first time.[/QUOTE]
Lets say internet access becomes unavailable at your office. Of course, you probably have books for whatever language you code in. But I have to admit, I do the same thing whenever I decide to program.

[QUOTE=T.F.W.O.;27421335]We live in an age where knowledge is instantly accessible. I concur, teaching memorization is quite silly now a days.[/QUOTE]
Instantaneous information access is still no reason to not memorize required knowledge. Not to mention, you'll look like a complete idiot picking up your device, trying to figure out the details of the subject at hand.

[POLOPOZOZO]

[QUOTE=T.F.W.O.;27421335]We live in an age where knowledge is instantly accessible. I concur, teaching memorization is quite silly now a days.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't hurt to develop a mind that can recall specific information, technology shouldn't be a crutch.

[JaffaOrange]

Some exams test understanding in a way that resembles memorisation. The point in education usually isn't to memorise things anymore but when they have to ask for a definition that can be copied straight out of a book then having the book with you doesn't help the institution guage your understanding.

[Doom14]

Concepts are important. Facts are important.

Remembering tiny slivers of information are not. If I'm going to be dealing with a chemical, I'll research the hell out of it before hand. I should not be expected to memorize every variable single variable about every single element and compound.

Technology should not be a crutch, but outside of situations where it has a high potential to fail (Space, Sea, etcetera), it should not be sin.

[Orayn]

I think it really depends on the course. My chemical engineering class last semester had all open book exams and finals, but that's because it required us to look up quite a few values for heat capacity, heat of reaction, Antoine equation constants and the like.
My calculus and material science classes, on the other hand, didn't require us to use nearly the same volume of information. It was all about learning a few main equations, and learning to use them well. In this case, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect students to know how to work with those equations without looking up examples and explanations - If it's something you're going to have to use frequently, there's no way you can keep up if you don't know it by heart.

[Magick]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27416809]The ACT is bullshit anyways(for me at least). It said I had horrible math skills and needed to retake basic math in college. I go to college and take basic math, I learn NOTHING. The stuff I had problems with on the ACT were covered in College Math![/QUOTE]

I've taken the ACT 7+ times. No where, on the entire thing, was there ever a math that needed a college math course's information to answer. Algebra, Geometry, and basic Trig are the only things on it, and that is taught within your first three years of high school.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Magick;27423386]I've taken the ACT 7+ times. No where, on the entire thing, was there ever a math that needed a college math course's information to answer. Algebra, Geometry, and basic Trig are the only things on it, and that is taught within your first three years of high school.[/QUOTE]

Uh trig is an advanced math class. College math is like linear and quadratic equations, and basic log.

[sloppy_joes]

The point is to test you on how much you know without any aid and with a time restriction, everyone and their dog could finish an open book exam with no time restriction.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;27423856]The point is to test you on how much you know without any aid and with a time restriction, everyone and their dog could finish an open book exam with no time restriction.[/QUOTE]

Maybe my field of study is just more focused on getting the job done quickly than memorizing useless stuff.

[Explosions]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27407334]Like I said, there is important information to retain, but the point of the class is to give you the fundamentals to be able to build on through practice or study.[/quote]

And now back to National Geographic:
*Mr. Historian walks on screen*
"So why were the Ancient Romans so important? Well, according to... ehm... hold on."
*Pulls out large history text book and surfs the pages*
"Ah yes, it was Cicero. Yes he said the Romans were important because... ah..."
*Flips to the glossary and looks to Cicero references*

With modern cell phones and laptops there should [b]never[/b] be a time in your professional life when you are unable to near instantly grab relevant data.[/quote]

What happens if your phone/laptop/electronic device breaks? This is just continuing the horrifying reliance on technology.

[quote]By the way, stuff like doctors and lawyers don't count, since they sort of have to remember a shit ton of information for their professional life.[/QUOTE]

"The hardest and most important jobs don't count because you actually need to know stuff."

ITT: I got a bad grade on a college exam and I don't think there should be any more because I'm angry.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Explosions;27423959]And now back to National Geographic:
*Mr. Historian walks on screen*
"So why were the Ancient Romans so important? Well, according to... ehm... hold on."
*Pulls out large history text book and surfs the pages*
"Ah yes, it was Cicero. Yes he said the Romans were important because... ah..."
*Flips to the glossary and looks to Cicero references*[/quote]

If someone asks you the significance of an event that should be memorable, but not the specific times and dates involved.

[quote]What happens if your phone/laptop/electronic device breaks? This is just continuing the horrifying reliance on technology.[/quote]

Yes because using tools definitely is not what got us to the top of the food chain and allowed us to dominate the planet. It was our amazing ability to memorize useless facts. :downs:

[quote]"The hardest and most important jobs don't count because you actually need to know stuff."[/quote]

The nature of their job requires memorization, which is why they are exceptions.

[quote]ITT: I got a bad grade on a college exam and I don't think there should be any more because I'm angry.[/QUOTE]

I do fine on my exams, that doesn't mean I don't dislike the way they are given. How pretentious of you to just assume that I do poorly because I disagree with the system.

[Ninjarooster]

What if you don't have a textbook and you are presented with a need for information.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Ninjarooster;27424084]What if you don't have a textbook and you are presented with a need for information.[/QUOTE]

You don't need a textbook, this is why you should notes accessible in situations where you might likely need them, and also have some sort of device to view documents or the internet.

[Explosions]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27424065]If someone asks you the significance of an event that should be memorable, but not the specific times and dates involved.[/quote]

Times and dates are extremely important. They apply context to situations without which could be easily misunderstood.

[quote]Yes because using tools definitely is not what got us to the top of the food chain and allowed us to dominate the planet. It was our amazing ability to memorize useless facts. :downs:[/quote]

That's not what I said. What if there was some disaster which destroyed or rendered useless many of the electronics we depend on today?

How about this: what do you do at your house when the power goes out?

[quote]The nature of their job requires memorization, which is why they are exceptions.[/quote]

All jobs which lead to success require memorization of specific facts. Do you know which job doesn't? A guy who boxes stuff at a factory. Or a janitor. I'm not judging you, but if that's really what you want to do then by all means, stop taking all these useless exams.

[quote]I do fine on my exams, that doesn't mean I don't dislike the way they are given. How pretentious of you to just assume that I do poorly because I disagree with the system.[/QUOTE]

OK, that was pretentious and I apologize.

[TreasoN.avi]

Memorizing what's in the book and then taking the time to really process the information and come to conclusions as to what it's about and its reason or effect on the world is what teachers want you to do. Most of the time they speed through chapters too fast for anyone to want to take that much time to do so.

[Explosions]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27424128]You don't need a textbook, this is why you should notes accessible in situations where you might likely need them, and also have some sort of device to view documents or the internet.[/QUOTE]

You keep bringing this up, but in reality it wouldn't work in all. What exactly are the jobs that you don't need to memorize things for? I'm assuming you don't mean doctors, lawyers, basically any type of scientist, politician, engineer, and well basically every single job there is you need to memorize things besides factory boxers and people who clean pools and mow lawns. Could you just tell me some of the jobs you can do without needing to memorize many specific facts?

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Explosions;27424142]Times and dates are extremely important. They apply context to situations without which could be easily misunderstood.[/quote]

Not really, I can understand the effects the Civil War had without knowing any dates(1859 or something when it started? Fuck if I know). You don't need that shit at all, you just gotta know what happened, what happened before it, and what happened after.

[quote]That's not what I said. What if there was some disaster which destroyed or rendered useless many of the electronics we depend on today?

How about this: what do you do at your house when the power goes out?[/quote]

I'm probably calling in sick to work if there was a disaster which rendered electronics and electricity useless.

[quote]All jobs which lead to success require memorization of specific facts. Do you know which job doesn't? A guy who boxes stuff at a factory. Or a janitor. I'm not judging you, but if that's really what you want to do then by all means, stop taking all these useless exams.[/quote]

I can record someone's voice without knowing the impedance on the microphone and the voltages of the console I am running it through. I just got to know what microphone sounds good and where to place it.

And if I ever do need that information I have like 5 different physical sources for it and infinite online sources.

[quote]OK, that was pretentious and I apologize.[/QUOTE]

:h:

[FerrisWheel]

Think of it like this:

Who would you prefer to hire on an overseas trip, a man with an extensive knowledge of the foreign language of the country visiting, or a man who looks up each word in a language dictionary?