Closed book exams are fucking pointless(especially in College) - General - Facepunch Forum

Closed book exams are fucking pointless(especially in College)

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[QUOTE=FerrisWheel;27424279]Think of it like this: Who would you prefer to hire on an overseas trip, a man with an extensive knowledge of the foreign language of the country visiting, or a man who looks up each word in a language dictionary?[/QUOTE] Language is a skill, not a bunch of memorized facts. If you memorize a language you fucking suck at it, you have to integrate it.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27424224]Not really, I can understand the effects the Civil War had without knowing any dates(1859 or something when it started? Fuck if I know). You don't need that shit at all, you just gotta know what happened, what happened before it, and what happened after.[/quote] Of course the starting date isn't important at all. Knowing the specifics of when and where something happened is fundamental to understanding the entire picture, and thus, learning what really happened. If I said "the Confederates did a sneak attack" what does that even tell you? You don't know where they attacked from, how the attack went, what the pretext of the attack was, and, after all that, what it might have been like to be there during the attack. [quote]I'm probably calling in sick to work if there was a disaster which rendered electronics and electricity useless.[/quote] OK so you just sit at home and wither and die. [quote]I can record someone's voice without knowing the impedance on the microphone and the voltages of the console I am running it through. I just got to know what microphone sounds good and where to place it. And if I ever do need that information I have like 5 different physical sources for it and infinite online sources.[/quote] If all you do is switch microphones for someone then I'm sure you'll have a wonderful career ahead of you.

OP thinks everyone should be librarians

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27423934]Maybe my field of study is just more focused on getting the job done quickly than memorizing useless stuff.[/QUOTE] It just proves how much you know relative to the people in your class. The fact that you think it's useless just proves what a bad program you're in. Good programs have no redundant information.

Its not pointless. Personally I prefer it but I have a really good memory and can usually recall things I learned weeks ago if I want. Though most of the time my memory is used to remember talking to girls I like.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27424297]Language is a skill, not a bunch of memorized facts. If you memorize a language you fucking suck at it, you have to integrate it.[/QUOTE] Is a skill not a collection of memorised facts?

Text books don't teach you "useless" stuff. They teach you what you need to know.

Exams test if you actually know something though.. IMO open book exams are fucking pointless.

Open book exams prove nothing of your intelligence. It proves that you are able to go to the glossary in a book and find everything.

The exams (closed book) I take measure how well I understand the subject, not how much I can remember in every single fine detail. Most of the questions require a true understanding of what and why things happen. Open book exams are for subjects that require analysis and the ability to intellectually piece together various bits of information to answer a question. They're not like: 1) In what year did WWII end? -- and then you open your book to that page. Bing! There's your answer. It's more like: 1) State which side won in WWI in your own opinion and why? -- you reread bits of information for some hard evidence and write out a paragraph using those facts. What I'm basically saying is, both exams must have questions crafted for them in order to engage the student to answer them with his/her own intelligence, understanding and logic.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27424297]Language is a skill, not a bunch of memorized facts. If you memorize a language you fucking suck at it, you have to integrate it.[/QUOTE] This is what some people in this thread are missing. A functional knowledge of math, chemistry, physics, or the something similar is very similar to learning a new language, in that they're sets of skills you need to be able to exercise at a moment's notice. Sure, they involve drawing from large banks of information, but the underlying concepts are the important parts people should be tested on.

[QUOTE=binarybitz;27424483]The exams (closed book) I take measure how well I understand the subject, not how much I can remember in every single fine detail. Most of the questions require a true understanding of what and why things happen. Open book exams are for subjects that require analysis and the ability to intellectually piece together various bits of information to answer a question. They're not like: 1) In what year did WWII end? -- and then you open your book to that page. Bing! There's your answer. It's more like: 1) State which side won in WWI in your own opinion and why? -- you reread bits of information for some hard evidence and write out a paragraph using those facts. What I'm basically saying is, both exams must have questions crafted for them in order to engage the student to answer them with his/her own intelligence, understanding and logic.[/QUOTE] In closed-book exams I've done, there are questions like both you have suggested there. Low mark questions on purely recalling information, and higher mark questions for applying knowledge such as the second question. Open-book exams are generally smaller versions of assignments, and the questions (should) generally start with "create", "invent", "improve" or "why".

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27423800]Uh trig is an advanced math class. College math is like linear and quadratic equations, and basic log.[/QUOTE] Who the fuck is just learning about quadratic equations in college? I was learning about them at 12 years old. [editline]15th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;27424425]Open book exams prove nothing of your intelligence. It proves that you are able to go to the glossary in a book and find everything.[/QUOTE] You're in high school or lower aren't you [editline]15th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=FerrisWheel;27424389]Is a skill not a collection of memorised facts?[/QUOTE] No, not necessarily. A lot of it is developed intuition. I could study historical fencing for decades but if I'd never so much as held a sword I'd still get my ass handed to me by someone with a year's practice.

[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;27407290]What are you going to do when you need knowledge, and you don't have anything to look it up from? That's what closed book exams are for, you need to learn how to retain knowledge, when all information sources are all unavailable.[/QUOTE] when are you going to ever be in a job situation where they don't allow you to look anything up?

Not really the best way to look at it. It's like saying "Why do I need to learn ANYTHING when I can just google?"

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27425225]You're in high school or lower aren't you[/QUOTE] What does this have to do with anything?

I retain information really well, albeit I'm only in grade 10 so the work is definitely easier... We have had a few open note science tests lately, and I have had no notes to work from. I am the first person done, no exceptions, and get usually a 95 or so.

OP can be summed up in two words: "Google generation"

A lot of people said, going on about programming 'Oh, I look stuff up all the time! It's not fair' - I know at least at my uni, (where I do a dual honours Biology & Comp Sci) for all my biology stuff it's the run of the mill closed book exams, which are fine, and for the programming module of Comp Sci, that's not assessed by exams at all, we get given things to program and then we do them and they get assessed. I'm sure later down the line they'll be some sort of exam but it won't be "Write out some code on this paper" so there's nothing to look up, it would be principles I should know. The point i'm trying to make is whether it be an exam, open book or closed, or another form of assessment, the chances are that (for the reasons a lot of people have mentioned) the type of assessment is chose for a reason, they're not just trying to piss you off, and they [i]do[/i] need to assess your competence somehow if they're going to be handing out a qualification to you.

[QUOTE=Explosions;27425546]What does this have to do with anything?[/QUOTE] I take exams all the time where I could have the book open and it wouldn't help me for shit if I don't know what I'm doing.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27431465]I take exams all the time where I could have the book open and it wouldn't help me for shit if I don't know what I'm doing.[/QUOTE] My question was what does anyone's age have to do with anything.

[QUOTE=Explosions;27432443]My question was what does anyone's age have to do with anything.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure I never mentioned your age and I just explained it. Are you one of those people who constantly gets fighty over being young?

I'd go a step further and rant on about how our entire educational system is outdated and fucked, but since its not changing anytime soon, you might as well just get the degree and get out.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27424224] I can record someone's voice without knowing the impedance on the microphone and the voltages of the console I am running it through. I just got to know what microphone sounds good and where to place it. And if I ever do need that information I have like 5 different physical sources for it and infinite online sources. :h:[/QUOTE] Dude, just deal with it. Every course has subjects that purely require memorizing. Today's college courses not only teach a certain subject to people, they also try to educate them to people that are a bit more rounded in their abilities and that have a good general knowledge about the field they're in. A little extra information never hurts. It seems to me that courses today try to give people the ability to contextualize the subject they're studying, not just teaching them the subject. Besides there are indeed certain courses that are about a craft that is purely obtained through experience, but the system, opposed to earlier times, needs a sort of quantitative way of evaluating people. I'm not saying that it works, but it's just a result of education being made into a sort of industry where people with lots of money who exploit the business and invest in it want to see numbers, not results... As a matter of fact I find memorizing stuff not that big of a deal, it's easier than actually learning certain methodologies or any other intellectual skill (and it's actually a relief if you had 2 months of hardcore math exams that turn your brain to mush) Also, the ratio of useless information carried in a certain course is actually an indicator for the quality of the course. Professors who actually know what they're doing never do these kind of things.

There are a few circumstances where closed book exams are in need. Say you're taking a chem class for the first time. You pretty much [i]need[/i] to memorize some certain things (at least the most common elements) in order to really understand what you are learning later on. A closed book test on those elements would be perfect. Same goes for knowing the 50 states in a US History class, or learning spelling/grammar/vocabulary in an English class. But in any other circumstance, there is almost no point. That's why I like how they give you a sheet of a lot of formulas, conversions, etc. during standardized tests.

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;27433701] Same goes for knowing the 50 states in a US History class. [/QUOTE] Why would you have to know that?

[QUOTE=Number-41;27433862]Why would you have to know that?[/QUOTE] Before learning that I honestly had no clue that Missouri wasn't on the gulf coast. That would have really screwed up my interpretation of the Missouri compromise. And that's just one example, there are so many other reasons why learning the states is important in a US History class.

[QUOTE=GunsNRoses;27407753]You're not as good at maths as you think, then.[/QUOTE] Incredibly stupid remark. Mathematics are not about how fast or accurate you can do simple arithmetic. You can train a smart animal to add. Mathematics should be judged on how well you understand the concepts and the proof behind what you're doing. [editline]15th January 2011[/editline] And to a level I agree with the OP. Intelligence is not about what you know it's about the application of what you know in a meaningful and logical way.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27424065]Yes because using tools definitely is not what got us to the top of the food chain and allowed us to dominate the planet. It was our amazing ability to memorize useless facts. :downs:[/QUOTE] Unless you went and looked that up in a book before posting, then you've just proved why memorizing facts is important.

This has got to be one of the silliest threads I've seen in a long time... Any idiot can go and look up what to do in a certain scenario, but they don't pay you to go to a job and look up how to do the job you're doing on wikipedia. You have to be able to retain a certain amount of knowledge of what you're learning, otherwise you'll be too slow at the task to be useful to anyone. The same goes for people who say "Well, if I had more time I could get an A!". I'm sure that will be useful to a company one day when you can solve problems for them at 1/29th of the rate of their competitor. Of all my exams, only one was open book (a digital electronics course) due to the high amount of datasheets present in the course. I only had to look at my notes about twice the entire test, and did very well on the test. The people who thought they should just be able to find what they need in the textbook failed, because they had to look up even the most basic concepts.

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