Spanking your child as punishment- Ethical or not? - General

They defined authoritarian right there for you (in case you missed it): characterized by harsh physical and/or verbal punishment. Obviously mild physical punishment doesn't fit into that definition... because well, it specifically says harsh.

[QUOTE=sgman91;35823683]Also, according to this: [URL]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111024133033.htm[/URL] these were the types of punishments used in a "punitive environment:" "beating with a stick, slapping of the head, [B]and pinching[/B] were administered publicly and routinely for offenses ranging from forgetting a pencil to being disruptive in class." Now doesn't that seem a bit different than rare spanking by parents?[/QUOTE] man that pinching must be brutal, then, if it's more harsh than spanking you think they're using a vice for that? [editline]4th May 2012[/editline] seriously do you even think about shit before you post or do you just not remember the shit you said five minutes ago?

"An assessment of the log book revealed children in the punitive elementary school witnessed on average 40 incidents (range = 15–65 across grades) of corporal punishment (slapping, pinching, hitting with a stick) per day at the school. In addition, to the ‘‘serious’’ incidents that were logged in the log book, there were frequent uses of slapping the child on the head or hand when they committed minor offenses. These were not recorded in the log book." Ugh, how about beating with a stick?

because if pinching falls into the harsh, authoritative range, I'd say physically hitting them in any capacity does.

[QUOTE=Lankist;35826742]because if pinching falls into the harsh, authoritative range, I'd say physically hitting them in any capacity does.[/QUOTE] READING COMPREHENSION MAN! They said the environment was punitive (by that definition), not every action done was punitive. I'm sure they praised children... by your description this would also be authoritarian since it was done in a punitive environment.

And this kind of back-and-forth on your position is precisely why I'm not taking you seriously. You change your shit constantly to suit your needs. [editline]4th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;35826754]READING COMPREHENSION MAN! They said the environment was punitive (by that definition), not every action done was punitive.[/QUOTE] I quoted your words, not the study's are you saying you were wrong before? Because what you're saying now and what you said ten minutes ago are contradictory.

Forget it, I can't do it... I give you the award of taking things out of context.

What context? What the fuck is your thesis? I ask you continually, what is the overlying point you are trying to make, and you give no answer. There is no fucking context. Each time I address one point, you jump to another random point of contention, often diametrically opposed to whatever point you were trying to make previously. You're not arguing for a thesis or a cause. You're arguing because you don't want to lose. Your inconsistency and incoherence are evidence of that. Get your shit together if you want to try to call me on something.

If you take away all of the meaning and social stigma etc, it's literally just plain child abuse. You are hitting your child to cause physical harm. So I don't have to know if it fucks up a kid or works, it's just plain child abuse.

I remember my mom spanking me when I was a child. My dad was against physical punishment, but he got creative with his punishments. I don't think I would spank my kids; there are other ways to punish a child.

every single organization set up for children and every single organization specializing in the mental health of children agrees that physical punishment is harmful to children, under any circumstance.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35805369]You are just a terrible parent. Again, here in Sweden we don't ever hurt our kids. Yet we get along just fine. We are actually civilized over here and are not stuck in 19th-century methods.[/QUOTE] Your civilized, how? Uhhh, great at making your country seem like a dick, because i doubt its "civilized" No country in the world is all entirely civilized. And if you didn't know that, go back to school and learn more about what civilized actually means.

[QUOTE=ChloeBlackSythe;35832649]Your civilized, how? Uhhh, great at making your country seem like a dick, because i doubt its "civilized" No country in the world is all entirely civilized. And if you didn't know that, go back to school and learn more about what civilized actually means.[/QUOTE] what the fuck are you talking about.

Always the "wtf are u on about?" when someone just concludes that the whole world is shit in frustration. But all countries, especially the civilized places (Parts of US, Parts of Europe..) have terrible parenting sometimes, and it often goes unnoticed (dumb fuck 1st world problems?) Some kids have just terrible lives because of no parenting, let alone anything, at all (Parts of Africa for example) I'd still say my home city is pretty civilized regardless.

I don't think spanking a child works because it only makes them fear of doing that wrong-doing again rather than understand why it is wrong. I just remembered how many times I got the crap beat out of me for sneaking out of the apartments to go to the playground only to get caught and beat again. The fear really can mess up a child's social skills because they can become extremely shy in doing anything and fell like they have the need to ask about everything, but also to fearful to ask which can cause them to be more probable to be self-destructive later in life.

Use of physical punishment seems pretty dated to be honest, since it relies on an association of pain with the immoral act which is pretty primitive. Since there have been advances in psychology it doesn't really seem necessary any more. However I don't really believe it's unethical unless the punishment is too extreme as in OP's case with a belt/shoe, I mean I turned out fine-ish.

All it did to me was make me fear my dad to the point of resentment. I'd never spank my kids; I don't hate myself that much.

[QUOTE=Someoneuduno;35833867]Use of physical punishment seems pretty dated to be honest, since it relies on an association of pain with the immoral act which is pretty primitive. Since there have been advances in psychology it doesn't really seem necessary any more. However I don't really believe it's unethical unless the punishment is too extreme as in OP's case with a belt/shoe, I mean I turned out fine-ish.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Dated, but not unethical. I will definitely not be spanking my kids as much as I can. My spankings will be the equivalent of death penalty in rankings of punishment. Not in strength of course.

You're only going to spank your children if they commit a capital crime?

[QUOTE=Lankist;35844906]You're only going to spank your children if they commit a capital crime?[/QUOTE] Are you an idiot?

[QUOTE=Antdawg;35844932]Are you an idiot?[/QUOTE] No but I sure as shit don't like the idea of a parent referring to their punishments as "equivalent to the death penalty" in any context.

[QUOTE=Lankist;35845172]No but I sure as shit don't like the idea of a parent referring to their punishments as "equivalent to the death penalty" in any context.[/QUOTE] He was referring to the fact that as a punishment spanking would be the most severe, like how in some countries the most severe punishment is the death penalty. Note how rare death penalty is used, but specifically the scale of the infringement which has made it the option used. No, it's not going to be used if a kid does a capital crime but if they do something very, very bad.

And I was making a quip.

I believe it's effective but also has the worst side effects out of all the punishments, especially extreme corporal punishment.

*snip*

I believe spanking, with an open palm on the rear, is perfectly acceptable. A belt, switch, anything like that is going too far. My other half and I both agree that in severe cases (A pre-teen or teenager throwing and breaking things) deserve a spank and a grounding. I don't believe in spanking a kid for not eating vegetables or something minor like that, and it should be limited to such a thing. Here in Nevada, you're allowed to hit your kids provided it's open palm (or a belt) and there's no bruises/cuts/any marks whatsoever. I fully agree with this law, and think it should be allowed everywhere. Of course, it's parental right whether or not to do it, but I plan on doing it. I was spanked as a kid for throwing tantrums and breaking things, and I stopped more out of the maturity issue than being fearful of my dad hitting me. I was old enough to understand that he did it to teach me to be a better person, rather than fear him.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35805313]No. It's [B]never[/B] justifieable. If you need to actually physically hurt your kid, then you have since long completely failed as a parent. You don't fucking hurt children. How cowardly can you get? It's not needed anyway! In Sweden and a lot of other countries, any form of physical abuse is illegal. Yet we are not undisciplined in any way. What's your excuse?[/QUOTE] This is what creates brats. Not every kid is the same and will stop when you tell them to. It is a LAST RESORT thing.

[QUOTE=Roukan;35865995]I believe spanking, with an open palm on the rear, is perfectly acceptable. A belt, switch, anything like that is going too far. My other half and I both agree that in severe cases (A pre-teen or teenager throwing and breaking things) deserve a spank and a grounding. I don't believe in spanking a kid for not eating vegetables or something minor like that, and it should be limited to such a thing. Here in Nevada, you're allowed to hit your kids provided it's open palm (or a belt) and there's no bruises/cuts/any marks whatsoever. I fully agree with this law, and think it should be allowed everywhere. Of course, it's parental right whether or not to do it, but I plan on doing it. I was spanked as a kid for throwing tantrums and breaking things, and I stopped more out of the maturity issue than being fearful of my dad hitting me. I was old enough to understand that he did it to teach me to be a better person, rather than fear him.[/QUOTE] This. When I was younger, I did a lot of stupid things that led to my parents spanking me. To be honest, I sort of thank them for it, because I'm a much more smarter and obedient person because of it. I'm not sure if I'd spank my own children as much as my parents spanked me though, but I guess it'd depend on the situation.

I personally think that spanking is what parents do to children when they're really really young because they don't understand anything else. (other than the fact that pain is something they don't really want.) When children have more of an understanding about things, like value of objects, then more thoughtful punishments should be used, thus removing the need to resort to corporal punishment. That's just my view on it.

People don't seem to see the difference between a quick smack on the arse when a child is too young to understand anything else, and beating the shit out of a kid with a belt. Sitting a toddler down and giving them a lecture on burns isn't going to stop them playing with the stove. Whether you physically punish your kids or not doesn't define whether or not you're a bad parent. This isn't a black and white issue.