Spanking your child as punishment- Ethical or not? - General

With the recent string of anecdotes, I find it amusing that a recent study has come to light. [quote] There is increasing interest in discovering mechanisms that mediate the effects of childhood stress on late-life disease morbidity and mortality. Previous studies have suggested one potential mechanism linking stress to cellular aging, disease and mortality in humans: telomere erosion. We examined telomere erosion in relation to children's exposure to violence, a salient early-life stressor, which has known long-term consequences for well-being and is a major public-health and social-welfare problem. In the first prospective-longitudinal study with repeated telomere measurements in children while they experienced stress, we tested the hypothesis that childhood violence exposure would accelerate telomere erosion from age 5 to age 10 years. Violence was assessed as exposure to maternal domestic violence, frequent bullying victimization and physical maltreatment by an adult. Participants were 236 children (49% females; 42% with one or more violence exposures) recruited from the Environmental-Risk Longitudinal Twin Study, a nationally representative 1994–1995 birth cohort. Each child's mean relative telomere length was measured simultaneously in baseline and follow-up DNA samples, using the quantitative PCR method for T/S ratio (the ratio of telomere repeat copy numbers to single-copy gene numbers). Compared with their counterparts, the children who experienced two or more kinds of violence exposure showed significantly more telomere erosion between age-5 baseline and age-10 follow-up measurements, even after adjusting for sex, socioeconomic status and body mass index (B=−0.052, s.e.=0.021, P=0.015). This finding provides support for a mechanism linking cumulative childhood stress to telomere maintenance, observed already at a young age, with potential impact for life-long health. [/quote] [url]http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp201232a.html[/url] Of course one study or even 10 cannot prove anything definitively, however this study certainly raises concern for how children who are exposed to violence (i.e spanking) will fare later in life. Another interesting take on this new study [quote]From a biologist's perspective, this is downright devastating. That's damage on an extremely basic, cellular level. That's premature aging, cancer (if telomerase, the protein that helps keep telomeres from being damaged, is upregulated to compensate) and a whole host of problems that could get carried through life like ticking time bombs.[/quote]

A hit in the back of the head is okay , spanking is just too homo erotic . [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating." - Megafan))[/highlight]

If we acted up as kids we used to get a slap, it's how things were. My mum was never harsh with it, we were little shits at time, but a slap would put us back in line. We all turned out fine as far as I can tell. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Anecdote - Read the rules sticky." - Megafan))[/highlight]

Personally being struck several times according to how severe my misbehavior was, I can definitely say that I do not completely see how hurting your child is supposed to "teach them" other than making them fear your disapproval and fear that stinging pain on their ass. With that being said, I also have seen slight differences in comparison between how my friends treat their parents and how I treat my parents/adults in general. I only have one close friend that I know who does not disrespect his parents and as far as I'm aware he was not spanked as a small child. As for everyone else I know, they treat their parents with complete and utter disrespect. It irks me to see how my friends can tell their parents to "Fuck off." "Get out of my room." "Fuck you."..Along those lines, them having confirmed they were never spanked as a small child. I was spanked from as far back as I can remember until I was about 5 or 6. I have told my dad to "Fuck off" once in my life, when we were in a huge fight. Me and my 3 siblings were all spanked and my brother has severe anger management issues, my sister has severe depression and my other sister has horrible anxiety and anger management issues.. leaving me to having severe depression (that I take medication for) and anxiety. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Anecdote - Read the rules sticky." - Megafan))[/highlight]

I preferred spanking to hot sauce or soap in the mouth whenever I talked back or cursed. It would have worked except I fucking love hot sauce. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Anecdote - read the rules sticky." - Megafan))[/highlight]

I'm not sure how some still haven't gotten it, but I'll say it again: Anecdotes have no place in a debate.

So far not a single study has been provided on either side that directly relates to spanking and other "gentle" corporal punishment methods. They either talk about "violence," like that last one posted, but doesn't specifically define what that means. Or they don't take into account the million other factors that go into the behavior of children. Anecdotal evidence is all we have so far. So far I haven't seen a single person who was very rarely spanked think that it had a negative impact on their lives. In fact most seem to think it was either necessary, beneficial, or at a minimum equal to any other form of punishment.

[QUOTE=sgman91;36174639]So far not a single study has been provided on either side that directly relates to spanking and other "gentle" corporal punishment methods. They either talk about "violence," like that last one posted, but doesn't specifically define what that means. Or they don't take into account the million other factors that go into the behavior of children. Anecdotal evidence is all we have so far. So far I haven't seen a single person who was very rarely spanked think that it had a negative impact on their lives. In fact most seem to think it was either necessary, beneficial, or at a minimum equal to any other form of punishment.[/QUOTE] Whether either type of study is definitive or not is not the point, the point is that at least then you can claim to have some basis in analysis or science, whereas now all we've got is people throwing opinions of their own experience at each other, something about as close to biased as you can get without literally saying "I'm right because I am".

My point being that if anecdotes are being banned than almost every post in this thread should be banned as unsupported opinions are essentially at the same level.

[QUOTE=sgman91;36177970]My point being that if anecdotes are being banned than almost every post in this thread should be banned as unsupported opinions are essentially at the same level.[/QUOTE] I'm just saying support it with [I]something.[/I] Even if a given study doesn't prove you're right, it provides some backing.

[QUOTE=sgman91;36174639]So far not a single study has been provided on either side that directly relates to spanking and other "gentle" corporal punishment methods. They either talk about "violence," like that last one posted, but doesn't specifically define what that means. Or they don't take into account the million other factors that go into the behavior of children. Anecdotal evidence is all we have so far. So far I haven't seen a single person who was very rarely spanked think that it had a negative impact on their lives.[/QUOTE] I'm slightly confused as you seem to believe that the effects of spanking are more important than the ethical implications. Ignoring ethical claims is like arguing about whether slavery has a net positive or a net negative affect on society, and practical issues that come with the abolition of slavery. A common argument made by pro-slavery proponents was "who will pick the cotton if there are no slaves to work the fields?". This is akin to asking "how will children be disciplined without spanking?". Could you please make the ethical case for spanking? No arguments from effect please, as ethical claims aren't based on effects. [QUOTE=sgman91;36174639]In fact most seem to think it was either necessary, beneficial, or at a minimum equal to any other form of punishment.[/QUOTE] The principal here is "if someone thinks something is beneficial, it is". There are obvious issues with this principal, especially considering psychological effects like Stockholm syndrome. If you want me to expand upon the issues with the claim I can do so.

First of all, who decided that the effect of an action has nothing to do with the ethics of that action? There are entire systems of ethics based on the effects of actions (e.g. Utilitarianism) So it seems your claim there is fairly arbitrary. [QUOTE]The principal here is "if someone thinks something is beneficial, it is". [/QUOTE] No, the principal here is, "If many people agree that something is beneficial under many difference circumstances and without collaborating it is more likely that that thing is beneficial." The key isn't a single anecdote, but the combined force of many anecdotes that all agree. [QUOTE]There are obvious issues with this principal, especially considering psychological effects like Stockholm syndrome. If you want me to expand upon the issues with the claim I can do so.[/QUOTE] To assume Stockholm syndrome in dozens of people who all lived with completely different factors and in separate situations seems to me like a desire to discredit, not a legitimate concern. [editline]3rd June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafan;36178829]I'm just saying support it with [I]something.[/I] Even if a given study doesn't prove you're right, it provides some backing.[/QUOTE] A personal experience IS support though. While it isn't at all enough to prove a point it does give a reason for a belief. There are plenty of posts that make a claim without any sort of support at all, yet for some reason that's perfectly fine. It seems more like a vendetta against anecdotes, not bad argumentation. In the end, you're the mod and I'm not. These bans just seems a little inconsistent to me.