Crossdressing & Transgender & A̲L̲L̲I̲E̲S̲ Discussion v. Thread Reassignment Surgery - General

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;49809057]That's so absurdly over complicated for literally no reason. "Feminine man" would pretty much summarizes perfectly what you just said.[/QUOTE] holy crap do you want to be more offensive with your wording. like, I'm sure you know what it's like having that sort of shit flung at you, but now flinging it at someone in the same fucking boat as you? [quote]Agender doesn't make any sense either how can you even be neither.[/quote] [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;49809209]Yeah I get that too... it's clearly a way to say you believe gender is just a social construct. That would be fine but by labeling yourself as "agender" you're simultaneously acknowledging that both binaries exist while saying you're neither. You can't be neither when you accept the binaries exist. That's contradictory and that's where I get lost on the ideology.[/QUOTE] how is it that hard to understand. instead of male/female, you look at is as masculine/not-masculine + feminine/not-feminine. essentially two bits instead of one bit (bit being like a computer bit)

[QUOTE=biodude94566;49809254]holy crap do you want to be more offensive with your wording. like, I'm sure you know what it's like having that sort of shit flung at you, but now flinging it at someone in the same fucking boat as you?[/quote] Woah hold the phone here. First and foremost to insinuate I'm attacking Quas is fucking asinine. Re-read what was just said on both sides. He states he is neither male nor female and, as a result, is neither cis nor trans and is a combination of the two. Me pointing out that's an over complicated, tumblr-based, special-snowflakey bullshit way of essentially labeling people as feminine men or masculine women is not me flinging shit. It's me having a viewpoint and debating it. Secondly I'm not even remotely on the same boat. Bigender people don't have any physiological evidence to support and validate their identity. Transsexual people, such as myself, do. That's why we're medically recognized. What was once considered a mental thing like agender, bigender, gender fluid, trigender, etc has now been backed by research claiming this is caused during pre-natal development in the womb. My original point is that these extra labels have no reason to exist when everything can be basically categorized into four groups of people: Cisgender Transgender (Non-binary i.e. feminine men/masculine womem) Transsexual Free Spirits (I don't know what to call them I just made up SE shit to classify people who don't actively believe in gender norms) Even then you can still be transsexual and still be non-binary. Thirdly calm the fuck down. [Quote]how is it that hard to understand. instead of male/female, you look at is as masculine/not-masculine + feminine/not-feminine. essentially two bits instead of one bit (bit being like a computer bit)[/QUOTE] Mmm... still doesn't make sense to me. That's essentially saying you classify yourself as neither of two or four binaries. Again, that's understandable if you're the kind of person who doesn't believe with gender norms. But by actively labeling yourself as agender your acknowledging they exist and that you believe in them but then claim you are nothing. You can't be nothing. I don't believe in gender norms myself, and I strongly believe them to be socially made up constructs. But I'm not going to around saying I'm agender when I, obviously, have a female brain.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;49809057]That's so absurdly over complicated for literally no reason. "Feminine man" would pretty much summarizes perfectly what you just said.[/QUOTE] heyoo don't you know that bisexual people are REALLY just gay guys or lesbians who haven't made a choice? whodathunkit no seriously, don't do this. don't invalidate someone else just because you don't think its right or you don't understand it, that's the kind of attitude bigots have about people like you. there's no reason to adopt it. also agender/bigender really isn't hard to understand? one is feeling an absence of an identifiable gender(i.e: I don't feel like a guy or a girl in any sense, neither socially or inwardly.) and bigender is feeling like a good mixture of either gender, usually in the sense of gender roles. it's rly not hard. no need to go invalidate people.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;49809394]First and foremost to insinuate I'm attacking Quas is fucking asinine. Re-read what was just said on both sides. He states he is neither male nor female and, as a result, is neither cis nor trans and is a combination of the two. Me pointing out that's an over complicated, tumblr-based, special-snowflakey bullshit way of essentially labeling people as feminine men or masculine women is not me flinging shit. It's me having a viewpoint and debating it.[/quote] except you've taken qaus' explanation and gutted it into something that no longer explains bigender into what equates to "trap" feminine men are not bigender, masculine women are not bigender. being bigender means BOTH, not just that you're one and exhibit some traits of the other. [quote]Secondly I'm not even remotely on the same boat. Bigender people don't have any physiological evidence to support and validate their identity. Transsexual people, such as myself, do. That's why we're medically recognized. What was once considered a mental thing like agender, bigender, gender fluid, trigender, etc has now been backed by research claiming this is caused during pre-natal development in the womb. My original point is that these extra labels have no reason to exist when everything can be basically categorized into five groups of people: Cisgender Feminine men Masculine women Transgender (Transsexual) Free Spirits (I don't know what to call them I just made up SE shit to classify people who don't actively believe in gender norms)[/quote] "no true scot" also I like how now everything apparently has to be recognized by medical professionals in order to be legitimate? [quote]Mmm... still doesn't make sense to me. That's essentially saying you classify yourself as neither of two or four binaries. Again, that's understandable if you're the kind of person who doesn't believe with gender norms. But by actively labeling yourself as agender your acknowledging they exist and that you believe in them but then claim you are nothing. You can't be nothing.[/QUOTE] how do you understand "both" but not "neither"? like you literally explain it yourself and then say you don't understand it. you [i]acknowledge[/i] that they both exist and then claim that [i]neither[/i] fits you

[QUOTE=Paige;49809423]heyoo don't you know that bisexual people are REALLY just gay guys or lesbians who haven't made a choice? whodathunkit[/quote] There's a fallacy in your counter argument. You're comparing sexuality and gender identity when they're entire different subject matter. So immediately this point lost traction before it even got started. [quote]no seriously, don't do this. don't invalidate someone else just because you don't think its right or you don't understand it,[/quote] So don't ever debate and have a civil conversation because people like you will just just claim I'm attacking and invalidating people. Got it. You fail to comprehend that I'm not trying to invalidate Quas or anyone who goes by those identities. I'm simply arguing the identites themselves are unncessary when it can be simplified into a much more digestible formula for the general public. That and I'm also stating tumblr made them up. Which they did. [quote]that's the kind of attitude bigots have about people like you. there's no reason to adopt it.[/quote] No, a bigot will flat out insult, demean, and invalidate someone with stupid, uneducated banter. I've done none of that in my posts. [quote]also agender/bigender really isn't hard to understand? one is feeling an absence of an identifiable gender(i.e: I don't feel like a guy or a girl in any sense, neither socially or inwardly.)[/quote] Okay, see, now that is actually something I can go off of here. I can understand and respect that mentality. I just fail to see what you can be if you're neither to go off. That's what still throws me off about it. [quote]and bigender is feeling like a good mixture of either gender, usually in the sense of gender roles.[/quote] So, again, feminine men and masculine women? This is another point of why I, personally, don't see a point as to why it needs an over-complicated label when the words exist for it already and are much quicker to explain. [editline]gdhf[/editline] Okay after reading candy's latest post I've decided to not continue this. Not with you two, at least, because you both are fucking incapable of having a discussion without digging for shit that isn't there, accusing me of shit, and being passive aggressive. If any one else would like to [i]civilly[/i] debate with me you can PM me.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;49809509]You fail to comprehend that I'm not trying to invalidate Quas or anyone who goes by those identities. I'm simply arguing the identites themselves are unncessary when it can be simplified into a much more digestible formula for the general public.[/quote] except "I am both genders" is still easy to understand? like it doesn't any more digestable than that while still accurately describing the situation [quote]That and I'm also stating tumblr made them up. Which they did.[/quote] stop this. seriously. just because "tumblr did it!" doesn't automatically and immediately invalidate it. I'm all for agreeing that tumblr does some stupid shit from time to time (though I'm getting to the point that half of it is probably parody), but on a case-by-case basis, bigender and agender are just as legitimate as transgender [quote]No, a bigot will flat out insult, demean, and invalidate someone with stupid, uneducated banter. I've done none of that in my posts.[/quote] you have, though? you're saying that someone who identifies as both gender is the same as someone who identifies male but embraces their feminine traits [quote]Okay, see, now that is actually something I can go off of here. I can understand and respect that mentality. I just fail to see what you can be if you're neither to go off. That's what still throws me off about it.[/quote] it's just like asexuality. you acknowledge that both genders exist, you just don't find either sexually attractive. except in this case, you acknowledge both genders, you just don't identify with either of them. [quote]So, again, feminine men and masculine women? This is another point of why I, personally, don't see a point as to why it needs an over-complicated label when the words exist for it already and are much quicker to explain.[/quote] no no no [b]no no NO[/b] how many times do I have to say that identifying with both genders is not the same as identifying as one or the other and embracing your traits of the other? [quote]Okay after reading candy's latest post I've decided to not continue this. Not with you two, at least, because you both are fucking incapable of having a discussion without digging for shit that isn't there, accusing me of shit, and being passive aggressive. If any one else would like to [i]civally[/i] debate with me you can PM me.[/QUOTE] yeah I do this because you have this stupid holier-than-thou, know-it-all, bull-headed attitude and refuse to ever admit that you're wrong or actually learn anything, on top of all the shit that you put paige and through for years, and repeatedly just be a dummy. professionalism has ended because I'm legit tired of dealing with your shit.

Can we like not take over the thread with drama? That's what makes people not want to post here. People who genuinely want advice or help.

Not conforming to gender roles is fine. But, I don't like it when people announce they are bigender, genderfluid, etc because gender identity as observed is different than sex yet for most things we reference as though they are the same thing for the sake of simplicity. Taking this into account is a semantic mess and is superfluous because people can immediate observe when someone has elements of both genders or is different than normal. It doesn't matter if you are a boy, girl, or superposition of Elvis and a bulldozer, its still easier to catagorize by physical characteristics, and if for whatever reason neither gender feels 100% you then theres nothing wrong with identifying as the one you feel closest to. If both cause great distress, then there are other problems at work. Its just an identifier. Some languages even lack gendered identifiers. You'll live. Every person i have met who isolates their gender like this has their world revolve around it, often with their own following of 'supporters'. Its annoying, and I wish it could stop so it wouldn't stigmatize people transitioning and make simple conversation a minefield. In reply to Quas i dont wish to invalidate whatever someone identifies as because in the context of pretty much every interaction it makes no difference. Stuff like labelling oneself a nonbinary gender or pronouns just uncomfortably shoehorns it into useless places. In the correct context i would love to describe myself as all sorts of different things, but for all other intents and purposes there is no reason im anything but female even though i barely fit the gender at all. This is why people see it as childish.

maybe for posterity: it's probably not a good idea to invalidate what someone identifies as unless it's exceedingly absurd. "i sexually identify as an attack helicopter" etc. [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] and for the sake of semantics: if you're not cis, you're trans* (umbrella use)

15 new posts! Oh..

Me yesterday: "Well, it seems better than SA's trans thread" Me now "...... Well, it seems better than SA's trans thread"

[QUOTE=biodude94566;49809590]except "I am both genders" is still easy to understand? like it doesn't any more digestable than that while still accurately describing the situation stop this. seriously. just because "tumblr did it!" doesn't automatically and immediately invalidate it. I'm all for agreeing that tumblr does some stupid shit from time to time (though I'm getting to the point that half of it is probably parody), but on a case-by-case basis, bigender and agender are just as legitimate as transgender you have, though? you're saying that someone who identifies as both gender is the same as someone who identifies male but embraces their feminine traits it's just like asexuality. you acknowledge that both genders exist, you just don't find either sexually attractive. except in this case, you acknowledge both genders, you just don't identify with either of them. no no no [b]no no NO[/b] how many times do I have to say that identifying with both genders is not the same as identifying as one or the other and embracing your traits of the other? yeah I do this because you have this stupid holier-than-thou, know-it-all, bull-headed attitude and refuse to ever admit that you're wrong or actually learn anything, on top of all the shit that you put paige and through for years, and repeatedly just be a dummy. professionalism has ended because I'm legit tired of dealing with your shit.[/QUOTE] I know I'm not exactly welcome here but considering I lurk. You people do nothing but sling shit at other people and when they bring up a valid point, you brought up shit that person did along with your defense squad to go shut them the fuck down. A suggestion here would be actually taking shit to PMs and discussing it like civilized people but tbh that'll never happen because it never /did/ happen before, and god forbid it did; we'll have someone going back four years digging through chat logs to incriminate someone. If you don't like her attitude how about not responding to her and baiting yourself to look like an idiot when you and Paige and Brandon and whoever the fuck else will undoubtedly come through to rate me/her/whoever hurt your hugbox dumb and then the collective three of you will jump down their throats like a rabid dog. tldr get the fuck over it and ignore the people that piss you off instead of defending shit that doesn't need defending because you have a personal problem with someone. It just makes you and the rest of the CDTG look like shit endrant. And no Candy you won't get a reply out of me nor do I expect you to take anything away from this because knowing you, you'll probably get offended and pull some counterpoint out of your ass to make me look like the asshole. Like you guys always do. Edit: Hello Quas I see you're the newest member of the HBDF. Trust me you rate me dumb now but this is common practice. I see all those boxes and disagrees. I can only imagine the shit you've heard secondhand.

[quote] yeah I do this because you have this stupid holier-than-thou, know-it-all, bull-headed attitude and refuse to ever admit that you're wrong or actually learn anything, on top of all the shit that you put paige and through for years, and repeatedly just be a dummy. professionalism has ended because I'm legit tired of dealing with your shit.[/QUOTE] Aw poor Paige. It's so hard getting over some bullying that occurred 10 odd years ago when we were kids. Shit I've already regretted and apologized for. Poor Paige, the same Paige who decided to willingly have an affair with my ex-boyfriend while I was still with him, knowingly lying about it for 6 months, to a point where I had to learn from a mutual friend the truth which ruined my fucking life. Poor Paige, the one who I fucking /forgave/ after all the lying and cheating and tried being their friend. Poor Paige, the one who likes to be a big fucking drama queen over the stupidest of shit in video games and throwing fucking temper tantrums. Poor Paige, the one who stopped being my friend because I was the only one who stood up to her bullshit and convinced my ex to follow suit because he's a lemming. Poor Paige, the one who added me back to try and fix things only to see that every other word out of her mouth was "nigger" because racism is funny which I silently jumped ship on immediately without any drama. Yeah, I put her through the some shit alright. How fucking dare you make this some personal fucking vendetta against me. I fucking knew it too. You, her, and your fucking girlfriend always white knight and jump down my throat at any given moment you feel you have the chance too. Thanks for admitting it flat out to me. Now fuck right off and block me. Stop jumping down my throat any time you find me in a thread because you don't like me and grow the fuck up.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;49811037]Aw poor Paige. It's so hard getting over some bullying that occurred 10 odd years ago when we were kids. Shit I've already regretted and apologized for. Poor Paige, the same Paige who decided to willingly have an affair with my ex-boyfriend while I was still with him, knowingly lying about it for 6 months, to a point where I had to learn from a mutual friend the truth which ruined my fucking life. Poor Paige, the one who I fucking /forgave/ after all the lying and cheating and tried being their friend. Poor Paige, the one who likes to be a big fucking drama queen over the stupidest of shit in video games and throwing fucking temper tantrums. Poor Paige, the one who stopped being my friend because I was the only one who stood up to her bullshit and convinced my ex to follow suit. Poor Paige, the one who added me back to try and fix things only to see that every other word out of her mouth was "nigger" because racism is funny which I silently jumped ship on immediately without any drama. Yeah, I put her through the some shit alright. How fucking dare you make this some personal AL fucking vendetta against me. I fucking knew it too. You, her, and your fucking girlfriend always white knight and jump down my throat at any given moment you feel you have the chance too. Thanks for admitting it flat out to me. Now fuck right off and block me. Stop jumping down my throat any time you find me in a thread because you don't like me and grow the fuck up.[/QUOTE] Threads over go home

[QUOTE=Miracle;49810998] endrant.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, thank you. Holy fucking shit. It's pointless bullshit like these arguments that feed into people's insatiable appetite for attention and the idea of "How about it's [I]our[/I] thread instead of a [I]community's[/I]" that has forced me out of here and encouraged me never to come back. This thread is a fucking cesspit, and for actual trans issues it more or less glosses over them because SOMEBODY's gotta get upset about it. You all need to pull up your fucking pants and quit acting like assholes every time someone disagrees with you. The fact that this thread has more vitriol and user-to-user fighting than any other on the entire site is deplorable. I have never felt welcomed in this thread. This whole thing always feels like its some sort of exclusive club for a few 5-6 members and their friends, and then maybe sorta people will discuss how to get trans issues but that usually gets drowned out with "haha sex" and "haha thigh highs". And if you try to turn this around on me with "but i have depression" well don't even start because you don't know the half of it and you're going to just end up hitting a brick wall with that shitty fucking argument that I've had to deal with in this thread and outside of it time and time again. I'm so sick of this thread being detrimental to trans users that could actually use help on this website. I thought I could come here and actually discuss things, but I see nothing but you people going to each other's throats time and time again. How is anyone supposed to get help in a thread like this? How is anyone supposed to feel welcomed in a community so hostile? It's fucking mind boggling how aggressive you people tend to be to others and how quickly some of you go to lock yourself in your little shell when someone calls you out on your BS. TL;DR: It's not that long, fucking read it.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;49808104]Because he (or she I dunno) understands that any other identity except for cisgender and transgender (more specifically transsexual) is stupid and made up special snowflake crap.[/QUOTE] imagine having a worldview SO COMMITED to the idea that gender is binary that you insult people that believe otherwise wait frig ninja'd by all the posts inbetween that one and this one because i somehow didn't notice them earlier frig

[QUOTE=Levithan;49811062]imagine having a worldview SO COMMITED to the idea that gender is binary that you insult people that believe otherwise wait frig ninja'd by all the posts inbetween that one and this one because i somehow didn't notice them earlier frig[/QUOTE] I can't I'd sooner kill myself

And people wonder why I avoid opening this thread, it either depresses me or its a bitchfest, quite literally. Hopefully everything will cool down now, right?

[QUOTE=Reagy;49811085]And people wonder why I avoid opening this thread, it either depresses me or its a bitchfest, quite literally. Hopefully everything will cool down now, right?[/QUOTE] It will until the defense force gets here at least, you're a resident here you should know how these things work.

Hi _Kilburn [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49811044] TL;DR: It's not that long, fucking read it.[/QUOTE] I think that effect is caused by a few people posting really often and then getting uppity, not because its an exclusive club or something.

[QUOTE=Aircraft;49811185]I think that effect is caused by a few people posting really often and then getting uppity, not because its an exclusive club or something.[/QUOTE] I don't wanna sound like an asshole but again if you dare speak something that someone doesn't agree with, especially here, chances are you get the hugbox defense force because you hurt someone's feelings god forbid. It happens entirely too much.

I'm over here like "Call yourself whatever the fuck you want I don't give three fucks as long as you don't infringe on my transition." I have demigender friends, I have agender friends. Going all Transtapo on them would just create problems and stress that I don't need one bit, and neither do they. For me, the only real issue is pronouns. I prefer you pick from "he," "she," or "they." You can't make me call you "xhi" or "ze." It ain't gonna happen.

Hello all. I'm really curious by this since i recently just said that i enjoy RuPaul in another thread and another user who has many trans friends and a trans girlfriend commented on it saying that they loathe it and everything about drag queen culture because they feel its a mockery. I completely disagree with this. I was just wondering if anybody else felt like that too? Any trans or allies hate RuPauls Drag Race for reasons? Can you please explain why? I'm really interested since i really don't see it they way the user mentioned.

[QUOTE=greeley;49811457]Hello all. I'm really curious by this since i recently just said that i enjoy RuPaul in another thread and another user who has many trans friends and a trans girlfriend commented on it saying that they loathe it and everything about drag queen culture because they feel its a mockery. I completely disagree with this. I was just wondering if anybody else felt like that too? Any trans or allies hate RuPauls Drag Race for reasons? Can you please explain why? I'm really interested since i really don't see it they way the user mentioned.[/QUOTE] I've never watched it, but I have no issues with transvestism or drag culture. It sucks that it tends to trivialize the issues of transgender people, but I'm not the type to tell people not to do what they enjoy if it is in all honesty harmless and fun for them.

[QUOTE=greeley;49811457]Hello all. I'm really curious by this since i recently just said that i enjoy RuPaul in another thread and another user who has many trans friends and a trans girlfriend commented on it saying that they loathe it and everything about drag queen culture because they feel its a mockery. I completely disagree with this. I was just wondering if anybody else felt like that too? Any trans or allies hate RuPauls Drag Race for reasons? Can you please explain why? I'm really interested since i really don't see it they way the user mentioned.[/QUOTE] I've never gotten the vitriol that so many transpeople have towards him. If people conflate drag queens with transfolk, that speaks volumes about how well learned they are. Given that trans issues have picked up so much media traction in the last three years, most people who don't give two shits about this stuff at least have greater awareness. So, yeah, it really isn't worth getting worked up over dragqueens. I mean, come on guys! It's [CURRENT YEAR HERE] for crying out loud.

I just dont see any connection between trans people and drag queens. As i said in the previous thread, i see Drag Queens as entertainers. They wear their costumes, wigs and make up, and create this character thats completely different to them because its who they wish they were internally. I see them as people who want to have fun and express themselves by making this alter-ego come to life physically. I think its brilliant. Although i couldn't do it myself. I admire that these people do it! But i don't in any way, see them in the same or even similar category to trans.

[QUOTE=greeley;49811559]I just dont see any connection between trans people and drag queens. As i said in the previous thread, i see Drag Queens as entertainers. They wear their costumes, wigs and make up, and create this character thats completely different to them because its who they wish they were internally. I see them as people who want to have fun and express themselves by making this alter-ego come to life physically. I think its brilliant. Although i couldn't do it myself. I admire that these people do it! But i don't in any way, see them in the same or even similar category to trans.[/QUOTE] There really isn't a connection, they're two vastly different things. It's just that culturally ignorant people see a transgender woman and think "man in women's clothes" so they label them the same.

If I'm not mistaken it's less about the drag queens and more about the way the show is done. It's about [i]Ru Paul[/i], not drag, drag shows, or kings and queens.

[QUOTE=greeley;49811457]Hello all. I'm really curious by this since i recently just said that i enjoy RuPaul in another thread and another user who has many trans friends and a trans girlfriend commented on it saying that they loathe it and everything about drag queen culture because they feel its a mockery. I completely disagree with this. I was just wondering if anybody else felt like that too? Any trans or allies hate RuPauls Drag Race for reasons? Can you please explain why? I'm really interested since i really don't see it they way the user mentioned.[/QUOTE] The main controversy I've seen is that RuPaul and co can occasionally use words like 'shemale' and 'tranny' which are also used as derogatory terms towards trans people, so people have gotten up in arms about that before. I used to be against him for that reason, but then I realised that there's no reason why we should be preventing people from using words, especially since the terms have been used to refer to both groups (and in fact, the [I]reason[/I] why it's derogatory for trans people is [I]because[/I] they're being conflated with drag queens) in the past. I mean, a lot of early trans figures were drag queens, so there is definitely a muddled history in there, but it's clear now that they're two separate things and there's no particular need for members of either group to get involved with the other (unless they're a part of both).

If Ru Paul ever called me a tranny I'd slap his dick off, just saiyan