Eh, I don't see it as a selfish act. Either way you'll end up dead and your friends and family will be sad. If killing yourself makes them sad thus making you selfish, then surely making friends that will see you die of age or something else is also selfish, isn't it?
I don't see it as an act of cowardice either, but more as an act of relief. I also think someone should be able to control whether or not they are on this planet.
Personally I'd rather people not kill themselves, but I don't think that should be my decision.
The only time I would ever commit suicide is if I wanted to make someone in particular feel really shitty.
Never gonna happen though, since everyone else I know will be sad, and I kinda like living.
On the matter of cowardice, I agree in some cases, like those twelve year olds who hang themselves because people at school call them gay. This shit happens to me on a regular basis, and I'm still alive.
My grandmother (Which I had not spoken to for 7 years or so) drowned herself in the sea, near where I live. Since I had no contact with her, I honestly didn't care much, and I was not shocked, since she had tried to do it many times before. In her case, she was in her 70ies, and I was in some way relieved that she had finally gotten what she had found rest.
One thing I feel bad for, is how someone has found her in the water. I am disgusted that she can treat others this way, if a kid had found her, the kid could be scarred for the rest of his/her life, and that is something I can not forgive her for.
In the end I think it is up to the individual person to choose if they want to live or not, and I think it is a shame euthanasia is not legal in most countries. If it was legal, I think we would see less people being found dead after weeks of rotting all alone in their houses, this would help the people who would otherwise find them. The families would also be able to talk about it, and talk their loved ones from doing it, instead of it coming as a surprise that a family member has committed suicide.
[QUOTE='[Green];32850079']I see it as weakness. If you're going to die, die with dignity, endure the pains and problems like a real person. Taking the easy way out, however mentally challenging it might be, is stupid.
At least for me, your bias may vary.[/QUOTE]
What about people in like fucking Africa whose lives are just constantly shitty, where they just have no reason to live on this planet, and will probably never escape their situation? Do you really blame those people for killing themselves?
Or even outside of areas of such awful poverty, there's people who the government just seemingly picked out and then said fuck you, just constantly getting fucked up the ass by the government, and their 'friends' and 'family'. What about the homeless in this country who are just doomed to live on the streets? What about the people who are about to die soon anyway, but extremely painfully?
Believe it or not, some people are in worse situations than your cozy, middle class life.
The way I see most cases of suicide is it's a long-term solution to a short-term problem.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;32857772]The way I see most cases of suicide is it's a long-term solution to a short-term problem.[/QUOTE]
Except that you don't actually know that.
Do you have any statistics on suicide reasons at all, or are you just pulling that out of your ass?
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;32857419]It's also selfish to stop someone from killing themselves just because it'll make you sad[/QUOTE]
I never understood this arguement. You shouldn't help someone who is most likely depressed and not in a clear frame of mind, because it's selfish? Isn't it worse to let them do it because you're to lazy/apathetic too actually [i]help them[/i]?
Why is it better for someone to kill themselves out of desperation than to try to help them?
[QUOTE=Regulas021;32854836]Because disconnect or not, and whether or not they do it for selfish reasons, it is ultimately a selfish act.[/QUOTE]
Suicide is a desperate action, you can't really say that any action made out of desperation is selfish. It's a natural human response to want to put a stop to pain.
That is, unless you're a cynic who believes every single action we take is taken out of selfishness, but if you believe that it kind of devalues the meaning of the word
[editline]19th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;32857984]I never understood this arguement. You shouldn't help someone who is most likely depressed and not in a clear frame of mind, because it's selfish? Isn't it worse to let them do it because you're to lazy/apathetic too actually [i]help them[/i]?
Why is it better for someone to kill themselves out of desperation than to try to help them?[/QUOTE]
Some people simply aren't able to get the help they need, either because of where they live, because they can't afford it (in some countries it costs thousands of dollars to visit a shrink once, America for example), or because getting help has been stigmatized by society
It's an unfortunate truth of the world we live in.
Suicide is outlawed in most countries as it allows for the police to seize the corpse so that they can test it easily, as the body was involved in a crime. Basically, it's to help stop foul play - you can't set up someone to make it look as if they killed themselves, as the body will be investigated properly. This is especially useful as families will often try to conceal suicide victims from other people, thus helping the a potential murderer get even further away.
It used to be illegal as it was seen as satanic, but there is an actual reason for it now.
If someone honestly wants to die, then I feel that it's their own right to do so. If they have decided that they just don't want to live, then it's selfish to ask them to keep on living, especially if their life is hell. If someone I knew commited suicide, sure I'd feel bad, but I wouldn't call them selfish, especially if they had their reasons.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32858309]Some people simply aren't able to get the help they need, either because of where they live, because they can't afford it (in some countries it costs thousands of dollars to visit a shrink once, America for example), or because getting help has been stigmatized by society
It's an unfortunate truth of the world we live in.[/QUOTE]
I understand that, but he didn't say that. He said it's selfish to not let someone die because it makes you sad, which is counter productive. He worded it to seem (at least to me) that we should just let people die because of their depression rather than trying to rid them of their depression. As though standing aside and not helping, when you have the capacity to, was the more moral choice. Which I disagree with.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;32858558]I understand that, but he didn't say that. He said it's selfish to not let someone die because it makes you sad, which is counter productive. He worded it to seem (at least to me) that we should just let people die because of their depression rather than trying to rid them of their depression. As though standing aside and not helping, when you have the capacity to, was the more moral choice. Which I disagree with.[/QUOTE]
How about instead of calling either side selfish, we say that the whole thing is a shitty situation and both parties get hurt?
I really don't understand the vilification of suicidal people on this site
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32858965]How about instead of calling either side selfish, we say that the whole thing is a shitty situation and both parties get hurt?
[/QUOTE]
that's a really selfish position zeke
A person owns their body, therefore they should be able to end their body. A law forbidding suicide must entail that that the government owns your body when implies slavery.
There's one problem with being selfish and killing yourself. When you're dead you will not care what others think of you. If you really feel that depressed that it gets to suicide, chances are you won't care for others.
People will eventually get over your death as they don't have any other choice.
Living a world of pain just to not sadden someone else doesn't seem a good way to live.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32859607]A person owns their body, therefore they should be able to end their body. A law forbidding suicide must entail that that the government owns your body when implies slavery.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Try and cut off your leg in front of psychiatrist and see how well that goes for you.
The state also works through state institutions (like medical discourses), which tends to declare those who do things that aren't socially acceptable as unreasonable, legitimating government interference.
[QUOTE=Contag;32859752]Yeah. Try and cut off your leg in front of psychiatrist and see how well that goes for you.
The state also works through state institutions (like medical discourses), which tends to declare those who do things that aren't socially acceptable as unreasonable, legitimating government interference.[/QUOTE]Try to suicide in front of a psychiatrist.
If someone wants to cut off their leg, they're free to do so.
If you want to end your life it should be up to you to do so,, why would you want to stop someone you don't even know from ending there life? they would have their own personal reasons
[QUOTE=Typhoonx10;32860341]If you want to end your life it should be up to you to do so,, why would you want to stop someone you don't even know from ending there life? they would have their own personal reasons[/QUOTE]I don't know, human decency maybe?
Many suicides are caused because of misunderstandings and depression which can be easily cured.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32860471]I don't know, human decency maybe?
Many suicides are caused because of misunderstandings and depression which can be easily cured.[/QUOTE]
I guess if can be fixed, someone should at least try and help them but if it were someone who was going to be in serious pain the rest of their life then it should be okay.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;32857419]It's also selfish to stop someone from killing themselves just because it'll make you sad[/QUOTE]
Selfish? I can't immediately think of anything more self[i]less[/i].
In my opinion suicide is the weak man's way out, because it leaves the people you left behind with your problems that you couldn't solve.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32860471]I don't know, human decency maybe?
Many suicides are caused because of misunderstandings and depression which can be easily cured.[/QUOTE]
And that gives you a right to use force?
[QUOTE=Typhoonx10;32860618]I guess if can be fixed, someone should at least try and help them but if it were someone who was going to be in serious pain the rest of their life then it should be okay.[/QUOTE]
"Force is acceptable if you think someone is making a mistake".
[QUOTE=koekje4life V2;32860837]In my opinion suicide is the weak man's way out, because it leaves the people you left behind with your problems that you couldn't solve.[/QUOTE]
"My opinion on this issue on suicide somehow matters and is an answer to whether practice is acceptable or not".
Suicide is dumb because it leaves all the possibilities you could have had in your future life gone and any impact on other people thereof. Like if Einstein or his father killed themselves when they were 12.
I can't think of a justifiable reason to kill yourself without thinking too hard. If you're a slave you could someday escape, if you're crippled they could someday cure you. And all the common reasons are just people with the wrong frame of mind, usually temporary.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32860975]And that gives you a right to use force?
"Force is acceptable if you think someone is making a mistake".
"My opinion on this issue on suicide somehow matters and is an answer to whether practice is acceptable or not".[/QUOTE]
Stop twisting people's words. They're stating their opinions on the subject, as everyone else has.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;32861396]Stop twisting people's words. They're stating their opinions on the subject, as everyone else has.[/QUOTE]
There was no twisting, if you don't understand the implications I can make it clear.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32860471]I don't know, human decency maybe?
Many suicides are caused because of misunderstandings and depression which can be easily cured.[/QUOTE]
What is being said here is that the prevention of suicides through force is justified because of the cause (depression and misunderstandings). Though force is not mentioned, it would be the only mean capable.
[QUOTE=Typhoonx10;32860618]I guess if can be fixed, someone should at least try and help them but if it were someone who was going to be in serious pain the rest of their life then it should be okay.[/QUOTE]
The use of force follows from the above reply. Logically if follows that most suicides can be fixed, that all suicides are applicable to intervention.
[QUOTE=koekje4life V2;32860837]In my opinion suicide is the weak man's way out, because it leaves the people you left behind with your problems that you couldn't solve.[/QUOTE]
An opinion is useless unless a person happens to be an expert on the matter. This gets into the issue of credibility. What is offered here isn't an argument.
[QUOTE=Wormy;32861729]Suicide is not an solution.[/QUOTE]
Eh. Any more info on that maybe?
Suicide is okay, if you have reached 60+ or something, since you already have lived your life. If you suicide before that line, you might miss something great that will make you happy untill you die (And no, not dying by suicide)
If you are born in the western world, you should not suicide, since it's a big punch in the face for those who wasn't born there, for example, people in Asia and Africa. They would kill to be in the spot you were born in.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32860471]Many suicides are caused because of misunderstandings and depression which can be [B]easily cured.[/B][/QUOTE]
hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha
aahahahhahahaah
seriously you are so ignorant if you think that depression is such a trifling matter that can be brushed aside by a little sweet talk.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;32861840]hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha
aahahahhahahaah
seriously you are so ignorant if you think that depression is such a trifling matter that can be brushed aside by a little sweet talk.[/QUOTE]For most causes it can. Teen angst is nothing new and is usually overblown because of puberty and hormones. Bullying at school can easily be fixed by transferring schools.
If you get bullied for being gay and that makes you suicidal, stop telling everyone you're gay. It's not the best way out, but sure as hell much better than killing yourself. Wait till college where no one gives a shit anymore.
And clinical depression can be cured with medicine.
Hahaha ahahahahah at you.
Sure if your entire family gets slaughtered it might be devastating, but most of the time that is not the reason why the people suicide.
[editline]19th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pepin;32860975]And that gives you a right to use force?[/QUOTE]
What force? You're not locking anyone up in a 4x4 cell. I actually can't imagine how you can stop a suicide with force.
Not to mention you have to be a jedi to use it.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32861946]
And clinical depression can be cured with medicine.
[/QUOTE]
Doesn't cure it
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;32862059]Doesn't cure it[/QUOTE]
Depends. Quite a lot of them do cure or atleast reduce the effect so you don't kill yourself for some stupid shit.
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