[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32862168]Depends. Quite a lot of them do cure or atleast reduce the effect so you don't kill yourself for some stupid shit.[/QUOTE]
It's a temporary fix, at best. What are you supposed to do, continue taking medication for the rest of your life? You need to get to the root of the problem and fix it.
I agree sometimes people truly may not have anything to live for but there's almost always a different solution.I also hate seeing people pointlessly waste their life.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;32862329]It's a temporary fix, at best. What are you supposed to do, continue taking medication for the rest of your life? You need to get to the root of the problem and fix it.[/QUOTE]
Hence why I said most suiciders can be fixed while Darth went all hahahaha.
Maybe not easily, but can be cured no doubt. Difficulty differs from person to person.
[editline]19th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=znk666;32862363]I agree sometimes people truly may not have anything to live for but there's almost always a different solution.I also hate seeing people pointlessly waste their life.[/QUOTE]Please tell more, what counts as wasting their life.
[editline]19th October 2011[/editline]
Also clinical depression has no roots, it's just an illness like any other.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32861698]There was no twisting, if you don't understand the implications I can make it clear.
What is being said here is that the prevention of suicides through force is justified because of the cause (depression and misunderstandings). Though force is not mentioned, it would be the only mean capable.
The use of force follows from the above reply. Logically if follows that most suicides can be fixed, that all suicides are applicable to intervention.
An opinion is useless unless a person happens to be an expert on the matter. This gets into the issue of credibility. What is offered here isn't an argument.[/QUOTE]
No body said anything about force, you used that so you could ignore their arguements. They were clearly talking about therapy and medication.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;32862664]No body said anything about force, you used that so you could ignore their arguements. They were clearly talking about therapy and medication.[/QUOTE]
Therapy and medication is force because you have to take them to get well. Duh.
[QUOTE=MasterG;32861747]Suicide is never justified. If you want to die, go out in a blaze of glory doing something good.[/QUOTE]
Can you provide me with an example?
It seems kind of silly to demand a person who is clinically depressed to perform a spectacular, altruistic feat when they can't even get out of bed.
I've read on the internet one good advice.
If you want to kill yourself, don't just cut your wrists or hang yourself.
Go out, run from home, explore the world, do something crazy, because if you have the mentality to kill yourself, why would you care about the outcome of these things anyway? Have fun and then die.
But please don't go blazing guns.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32863461]I've read on the internet one good advice.
If you want to kill yourself, don't just cut your wrists or hang yourself.
Go out, run from home, explore the world, do something crazy, because if you have the mentality to kill yourself, why would you care about the outcome of these things anyway? Have fun and then die.
But please don't go blazing guns.[/QUOTE]
If you're unstable enough, you won't be able to have fun at all - seriously, heavy bullying can break people down to shells who have literally no hope or chances, it's not minor name calling, this is constant, persistant abuse from everyone that leaves them unable to enjoy a single minute.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;32863528]If you're unstable enough, you won't be able to have fun at all - seriously, heavy bullying can break people down to shells who have literally no hope or chances, it's not minor name calling, this is constant, persistant abuse from everyone that leaves them unable to enjoy a single minute.[/QUOTE]
But why? You're not getting bullied anymore. It's not like your dead body has to go to school tomorrow.
Because there's literally nothing to have fun for - the thought won't appear in their heads.
Essentially, you need to be hopeful to experience joy and thoughts like "I want to have a good time before I go." If you're being seriously bullied, you'll just want it to end, grab "control" and finish it. They are past caring how, or even why.
Basically, we can't put ourselves into the mind of a severely depressed person, no matter how empathetic we are.
Suicide is a weird topic when it comes to discussing with other people since it all changes depending on the person. I can understand while it's extremely selfish in most situations, if you had a disease or illness that was slowly killing you i can see it as justified and it's pretty much torture keeping someone who's in pain alive against their will. Depressed people shouldn't do it, although i've been at that rock-bottom moment where you're unable to see anything but shit in the future and suicide seems to be the only way to end the sadness, but even then when your at that point help is still there. but yeah as the guy above posted you will never entirely understand what a depressed person is going through, because chances are they're not having a nice time at all.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32863461]Have fun and then die.[/QUOTE]
Really. You don't know jack about depression, do you?
Depression, in my experience, is where you get no pleasure out of life. In fact, you get the opposite. You're sad. All the time. It doesn't stop, you can't be happy.
[QUOTE=Gareth;32864396]Suicide is a weird topic when it comes to discussing with other people since it all changes depending on the person.[/QUOTE]
Suicide debates are always a clusterfuck because the people who are truly experienced in it and have gone through with it aren't really available to share their wisdom with the rest of us.
So it ends up being a circlejerk of people who have no idea arguing with people who have somewhat of an idea, both quoting professionals with differing ideas.
The only real thing everyone can agree on is [b]why[/b] suicide happens - people kill themselves when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.
Unfortunately both sides of the argument interpret that statement differently.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32863545]But why? You're not getting bullied anymore. It's not like your dead body has to go to school tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
Past a certain point with depression it becomes impossible to actually enjoy anything anymore. Like if youre watching a comedy show, you might find the jokes witty our clever, but you won't laugh, and you won't get any enjoyment out it
People seem to be misunderstanding that when a person is contemplating suicide, they literally do not care about anyone or anything else whatsoever, because their life so full of misery and pain they only want to end it. Another thing to remember is that depression completely fucks with your mind to the point where you are no longer actually rational about suicide or self harm. The justifications they create for it make no sense whatsoever, so this argument is pretty much poinless anyway
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32860207]If someone wants to cut off their leg, they're free to do so.[/QUOTE]
Uh...
[QUOTE=Contag;32872264]Uh...[/QUOTE]
Fun fact, people actually do have that done [url=http://www.cracked.com/article_19369_the-6-most-mind-blowing-ways-your-brain-can-malfunction_p2.html]for them.[/url]
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;32873216]Fun fact, people actually do have that done [url=http://www.cracked.com/article_19369_the-6-most-mind-blowing-ways-your-brain-can-malfunction_p2.html]for them.[/url][/QUOTE]
are you referring to the same article that says
[quote]Apparently shooting for the title of World's Most Unethical Surgeon
the hospital ordered him to stop, for some reason.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Contag;32873258]are you referring to the same article that says[/QUOTE]
yes
the point was that people try to get it done and have done so in the past not that it's currently happening (although with how many people there are out there I'm sure at least one doctor is doing it)
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;32873434]yes
the point was that people try to get it done and have done so in the past not that it's currently happening (although with how many people there are out there I'm sure at least one doctor is doing it)[/QUOTE]
And? People kill themselves as well, it doesn't mean that wanting to chop off your limbs or kill yourself isn't a reason to be involuntarily detained
I was replying to Pepin, indicating that state institutions regularly detain people for harming themselves
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32861946]What force? You're not locking anyone up in a 4x4 cell. I actually can't imagine how you can stop a suicide with force.[/QUOTE]
Someone is about to jump off a building, and there is a rescue team below and they pull the person from behind. Someone has a gun to their head, a SWAT sniper shoots the gun out of his hand and people tackle him to the ground. Someone is found to have written "suicidal" poems at school, any school official that sees it is required by law to make a report and the student has to attend a number of sessions to talk about it. Suicide is against the law, the law is a force, the law enforecment must en[B]force[/B] the law, and a law against suicide requires [B]force[/B] to be taken against those who try to commit suicide.
I've always seen suicide as a sort of 'self euthanasia' Why would you want someone to live when they don't want to live? Everyone should have the right to die in my opinion, yeah of course you'd be sad, but I suppose you could also try to be happy for them.
(Speaking from very recent experience, however they didn't actually manage to end their life, got very close though)
To me:
Suicide isn't wrong, it's just usually done at the wrong time.
Let's say you're 80 years old and you can't do anything for yourself. Go ahead and OD if you want, I wouldn't blame you.
In fact, I'd do the same thing in that situation.
Its a bit silly that choosing to end your own life would be "illegal," with that said I don't really see a [I]point[/I] in suicide..
I mean, if you really just stop giving a fuck, enough up to the point where you'll actually end your own life, why not just do something else like up and leave your current surroundings? I mean we've got this entire earth and most people who commit suicide have probably only seen like .5% of it at best. Also, know it sounds a bit cold, but really the biggest problem with suicides is the "messy" ones, where people jump off a building into the street, or jump in front of a train in the station. You shouldn't put that kind of psychological burden on people around you by killing yourself in such a horrific and public way.
Other than that, it's just one of those grey areas that need to be accepted. People are going to kill themselves... so long as they are doing it in a safe manner that isn't going to involve a squadron of police searching for their corpse in a river, or literally scraping their remains off of the asphalt, then its their choice. Hopefully they just make that choice properly; and not at a time of irrational depression.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32874171]Someone is about to jump off a building, and there is a rescue team below and they pull the person from behind. Someone has a gun to their head, a SWAT sniper shoots the gun out of his hand and people tackle him to the ground. Someone is found to have written "suicidal" poems at school, any school official that sees it is required by law to make a report and the student has to attend a number of sessions to talk about it. Suicide is against the law, the law is a force, the law enforecment must en[B]force[/B] the law, and a law against suicide requires [B]force[/B] to be taken against those who try to commit suicide.[/QUOTE]
Yet noone was thrown into jail for attempted suicide.
Suicide is against the law in most countries so that they can seize the body for testing to ensure that there was no foul play. It's basically the only solid way of getting the body impounded, as it was involved in a crime.
if i had cancer and was gonna die slowly, id probably just kill myself once it got so painful i couldnt enjoy doing the things that make me happy in life. Why would i wanna sit in a bed, in pain all the time while my loved ones watch me suffer. Thats not honorable, its selfish, but who the fuck is gonna be upset about me killing myself when the pain is finally gone?
No. Not even last case scenario.
The reason I say this is because if you do it any other way, suicide as a whole would look like escape from things that can be handled quite well. If we treat suicide as normal and OK, it reduces it to "something I can do to easily get out when something bad happens". I don't want it to turn into that.
I know you can't stop everyone, and I know each person has a right to do what he wants with his body, but treating suicide as OK is just going to make the issue worse.
Seriously guys, wanting to commit suicide is generally part if a wider mental illness. You can't let someone with a mental illness just do whatever they want to their body, because theyre (damn phone autocorrect) irrational. Suicide is only a rational decision, I would say, In a tiny % of cases. Thats slowly dying of cancer etc
And hypno toad, if youre in a state if mind where you are seriously considering suicide, to the point where you actually might do it, chances are you'll feel its the only way to escape from whatever things are happening in your life. There is a sort of learned helplessness (pavlovian response, you might say) that comes with mental illness. You feel you cannot change anything despite the fact you could. That plus apathy makes for poor motivation beyond what could be an easy solution; that is, suicide
Euthansia?
What the fuck? Need permission to end your own life?..
I don't see a point in suicide, but it takes a lot of courage to end your own life.
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