[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;32879106]Yet noone was thrown into jail for attempted suicide.[/QUOTE]
Yes they are.
Not jail, but psychiatric wards.
It's a lack of freedom all the same.
I had a cousin commit suicide back in May. It was fucked up.
If making suicide illegal will get people who attempt to commit suicide professional help (even if it's from a sub-par psychiatric facility offered by the US legal system), I think it'd be for the best.
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem... [I]anything[/I] that can stop people from committing suicide is a good thing in my book.
Make suicide legal, force the people wishing to partake in it go to at least a month of psychiatrist meetings.
[QUOTE=Underline;32885339]
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem...[B] [I]anything[/I] that can stop people from [/B]committing suicide is a good thing in my book.[/QUOTE]
That is such a stupid fucking line.
There are more than a few cases where suicide is a solution to a very permanent problem.
[QUOTE=Contag;32873749]I was replying to Pepin, indicating that state institutions regularly detain people for harming themselves[/QUOTE]
Were you adding on to what I was my general argument or are you making a retort? It doesn't seem like a retort.
[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;32879106]Yet noone was thrown into jail for attempted suicide.[/QUOTE]
I'm not really sure what this is nor the point or what you're saying. The statement does nothing to rebut any claim I made, and the claim that force is acceptable as long as there is no jail sentence is a bit difficult to justify.
[QUOTE=Peter;32881095]But it takes a lot of courage to end your own life.[/QUOTE]
There is no objective measure for this, and it can be reasoned that if someone truly didn't value their life that the reasoning would not at all follow. The entire premise is centered on the idea that a person values their life, which is contradictory to the whole notion of suicide.
[QUOTE=Underline;32885339]If making suicide illegal will get people who attempt to commit suicide professional help (even if it's from a sub-par psychiatric facility offered by the US legal system), I think it'd be for the best.
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem... [I]anything[/I] that can stop people from committing suicide is a good thing in my book.[/QUOTE]
Your argument already has a major flaw in it in that it assumes that the illegality of suicide will have a deterring effect, to which no evidence can be provided. It is a fallacy to assume that law always deters, I can cite many examples, drug usage being a big one.
The second paragraph is quite irrational as it justifies any means to meet an end, and there hasn't even been a case made as to why that end should be attained.
An easy way to prevent suicide is to strap someone someone to a table and to feed to them through a tube. Now since the future is unpredictable, they can't be trusted to be let off and this is more preventative action to keep them from dying. A justifiable mean to a end?
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;32885374]Make suicide legal, force the people wishing to partake in it go to at least a month of psychiatrist meetings.[/QUOTE]
What is the justification of force? That you know what's best for an individual?
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;32885374]Make suicide legal, force the people wishing to partake in it go to at least a month of psychiatrist meetings.[/QUOTE]I doubt people will go through all that just so they can tie a rope around their neck legally.
Suicide should be illegal for people with children.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;32888239]Suicide should be illegal for people with children.[/QUOTE]Making suicide illegal will not make the suicider go "oh it's illegal, I better not do it then".
[QUOTE=OreoExtremist;32879532]if i had cancer and was gonna die slowly, id probably just kill myself once it got so painful i couldnt enjoy doing the things that make me happy in life. Why would i wanna sit in a bed, in pain all the time while my loved ones watch me suffer. Thats not honorable, its selfish, but who the fuck is gonna be upset about me killing myself when the pain is finally gone?[/QUOTE]
Terminal illnesses. Oooh boy. If I had one of those I would does up on drugs and go orbit height skydiving without a chute, but not before doing stuff I really wanted to do.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32887464]
What is the justification of force? That you know what's best for an individual?[/QUOTE]
I was saying that if you're just told it's illigal and you want to suicide, you will anyway. If there is a punishment afterward- same thing. If you put this kind of restraint before the fact, a few people would do it, and a percentage of those would change their minds- and that small percentage is still lives saved.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;32854836]Because disconnect or not, and whether or not they do it for selfish reasons, it is ultimately a selfish act.[/QUOTE]
Not to sidetrack the debate, but the majority of actions are selfish. It's selfish to want to keep someone around when they're suffering. on both sides of suicide, is selfishness.
Interesting fact I have a Jordanian exchange student at my school and he said that in Jordan if you want to kill yourself you have to kill your whole family first as not to dishonour them.
[QUOTE=Tinovac;32899785]Interesting fact I have a Jordanian exchange student at my school and he said that in Jordan if you want to kill yourself you have to kill your whole family first as not to dishonour them.[/QUOTE]
I think I heard somewhere a son killed himself and then their entire family did that too because they couldn't live with the shame. I think it was somewhere in asia maybe.
I recently read a book by Jeffery Deaver concerning suicide. It stated that a quadriplegic was desperate to kill himself, but couldn't find any assistance to do so because of American law. He set fire to his house and drove his wheelchair into the flames, dying of third degree burns.
Whilst this is totally fictional writing, it does pose an interesting thought and point to this argument. Prevention of suicide can be considered cruel.
[QUOTE=jakeabbott96;32910935]I recently read a book by Jeffery Deaver concerning suicide. It stated that a quadriplegic was desperate to kill himself, but couldn't find any assistance to do so because of American law. He set fire to his house and drove his wheelchair into the flames, dying of third degree burns.
Whilst this is totally fictional writing, it does pose an interesting thought and point to this argument. Prevention of suicide can be considered cruel.[/QUOTE]
But if he was quadriplegic, how did he set the house on fire?
[QUOTE=jakeabbott96;32910935]I recently read a book by Jeffery Deaver concerning suicide. It stated that a quadriplegic was desperate to kill himself, but couldn't find any assistance to do so because of American law. He set fire to his house and drove his wheelchair into the flames, dying of third degree burns.
Whilst this is totally fictional writing, it does pose an interesting thought and point to this argument. Prevention of suicide can be considered cruel.[/QUOTE]
Why didn't he just buy a gun?
[QUOTE=sp00ks;32912975]Why didn't he just buy a gun?[/QUOTE]
He was paralyzed, you can't move much when you're paralyzed. Hence why I am wondering how he started a fire.
It's pretty coward to suicide, yet it takes big balls. It's probably the worst way of dying though
[QUOTE=Icedshot;32880642]Seriously guys, wanting to commit suicide is generally part if a wider mental illness. You can't let someone with a mental illness just do whatever they want to their body, because theyre (damn phone autocorrect) irrational. Suicide is only a rational decision, I would say, In a tiny % of cases. Thats slowly dying of cancer etc
And hypno toad, if youre in a state if mind where you are seriously considering suicide, to the point where you actually might do it, chances are you'll feel its the only way to escape from whatever things are happening in your life. There is a sort of learned helplessness (pavlovian response, you might say) that comes with mental illness. You feel you cannot change anything despite the fact you could. That plus apathy makes for poor motivation beyond what could be an easy solution; that is, suicide[/QUOTE]
so what if they are irrational?
it is still their decision, their power-of-attorney.
[editline]23rd October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32911485]But if he was quadriplegic, how did he set the house on fire?[/QUOTE]
turn on all the gas, use gas lighter when house is suitably full of gas
[QUOTE=Glorbo;32879942]If we treat suicide as normal and OK, it reduces it to "something I can do to easily get out when something bad happens". I don't want it to turn into that.[/QUOTE]
Human survival instinct will ensure that suicide never becomes routine.
What an asinine, uneducated, baseless statement to make.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NS3sll2aXU[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8r3uLbgO40&feature=related[/media]
watch the full episode Star trek Voyager - Death Wish
Found this on Reddit (read it anyway), dumping it here:
[release]I'm a suicide hotline responder and moderator over at /r/suicidewatch, and I've thought about this a lot, so I can't resist weighing in even though I'm kind of late arriving.
Everything I've figured out about this issue over the years is totally validated in the excellent book [url=http://books.google.com/books?id=RSt4hnnKoWkC]Myths About Suicide[/url] by Thomas Joiner, one of the leading research psychologists working in suicidology today. He does an excellent job of both debunking the fallacy that suicide is selfish, and explaining why this mistaken idea is so persistent.
Basically what he says is that one of the factors necessary for people to be suicidal is a profound alienation, a complete fracture of the person's connection to the rest of humanity. So, suicidal people are unable to believe that their deaths will cause any sense of grief or loss in others. Thus, their behaviour can appear selfish from the outside.
But, this kind of alienation is very difficult for someone who has not "been there" to understand. Plus, suicidal behaviour, whether the attempts are completed or not, usually results in tremendous pain and trouble for others. So, the myth that "suicide is selfish" persists.
The origins of the myth (also discussed by Joiner) are probably in the religious doctrines that labelled suicide as sinful, but I think the reason that it hangs around are psychological, not theological.
A lot of people posting here seem to be assuming that it's logical to infer that suicidal behaviour is selfish because it causes suffering. That doesn't take into account the degree to which the suicidal mindset's worldview is skewed. Most suicidal people truly believe that they have nothing to offer the world and that they don't belong in it, and that the best thing they can do to improve the world is to take themselves out of it. Their self-destructive actions are rooted in that belief. The fact that these beliefs are usually wrong doesn't make their actions selfish, just tragically misguided.[/release]
In my opinion, it does take guts to kill yourself. I mean unless it's painless. I've been through depression and suicidal thoughts a lot before, but I've never actually gotten up the nerve to take a knife and slit my wrist. I just couldn't see myself doing it or putting my family through that. Sometimes though, it feels like it's the only way to prove yourself or show someone how you felt.
This song sends a very strong message out about suicide imo
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XleOkGsYgO8&ob=av3e[/media]
Committing suicide is a terminal and horrible resolution over a temporary issue. Nearly all reasons behind suicides can be found with alternative choices and resolutions when given the right amount of time and consultant.
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;32987350]
Committing suicide is a terminal and horrible resolution over a temporary issue. Nearly all reasons behind suicides can be found with alternative choices and resolutions when given the right amount of time and consultant.[/QUOTE]
Try telling that to a hopeless person who feels like they've tried everything to fix their problems.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32987361]Try telling that to a hopeless person who feels like they've tried everything to fix their problems.[/QUOTE]
Then they need to be given proper consultant from a professional and guide them through it. "A hopeless person who feels like they've tried everything to fix their problems" sums up of most of those that commits suicide in the first place.
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;32987382]Then they need to be given proper consultant from a professional and guide them through it. "A hopeless person who feels like they've tried everything to fix their problems" sums up of most of those that commits suicide in the first place.[/QUOTE]
it would be nice if those that needed help could always get it
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;32987350]
Committing suicide is a terminal and horrible resolution over a temporary issue.[/QUOTE]
Why do people keep saying this? People don't kill themselves because they've been kinda sad for a couple of days. Even if it is temporary, feeling like shit all the time for several years must be horrible.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;32987833]Why do people keep saying this?[/QUOTE]
Because it's true?
[QUOTE=sp00ks;32987833]People don't kill themselves because they've been kinda sad for a couple of days. Even if it is temporary, feeling like shit all the time for several years must be horrible.[/QUOTE]
There are tons of people suffering from similar scenarios as you around the world frequently. Do all of them kill themselves? No, because they know that they will get over it eventually/with alternatives available and is not worth ending their life over temporary emotions. Like I said, seek professional help and medication if needed. They tend to be a lot more helpful than you can expect.
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