[QUOTE=J!NX;33041866]Being bullied normally only lasts until after high school.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
Normally, at least.[/QUOTE]
Which is 3 years or more, depending on what you had before high school. 3 years in hell is quite a lot.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33041965]Which is 3 years or more, depending on what you had before high school. 3 years in hell is quite a lot.[/QUOTE]
3 years is a very TINY point in life. Killing yourself rather than letting it solve itself sure as shit is wasteful.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33042119]3 years is a very TINY point in life. Killing yourself rather than letting it solve itself sure as shit is wasteful.[/QUOTE]Have you ever been bullied? Like, actually bullied. You get depressed and you live for today, not tomorrow. Each day is a battle in hell that you wish would end as soon as possible. That + puberty = unstable mind.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33042278]Have you ever been bullied? Like, actually bullied. You get depressed and you live for today, not tomorrow. Each day is a battle in hell that you wish would end as soon as possible. That + puberty = unstable mind.[/QUOTE]
Yes I have. If you can't understand that 3 years is a small portion of ones life, then you are clearly a silly head. People change, people grow out of things and look at the past, wondering why they didn't do better, and smirk. 3 years can pass in a flash once your out of high school, too, you know.
Have you passed high school? I have already, I got over dick heads.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
I'm the type of guy that never considers suicide and never will, because I view it as a moot option.
Good for you. Newsflash, not everyone is like you.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33042640]Good for you. Newsflash, not everyone is like you.[/QUOTE]
So people don't change and time doesn't go faster as you age?
[QUOTE=J!NX;33042777]So people don't change and time doesn't go faster as you age?[/QUOTE]
Depends. Many people don't change and time is always the same, it doesn't speed up or anything.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33042954]Depends. Many people don't change and time is always the same, it doesn't speed up or anything.[/QUOTE]
I think that's pretty stubborn and baseless to say. Everyone changes, and as you age you feel as if time goes faster.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
every 2 years you turn into a very different person. If you say/type statements 2 years, and beyond ago, then look back at them, you might disagree with a lot of it. I've done this hundreds of times personally.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
Time itself though, doesn't speed up, however, as you age, it just seems that way. You slowly become more and more used to things and living and you just kind of let more and more things get by you, making it 'speed up'. Is what I'm saying.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33042985]I think that's pretty stubborn and baseless to say. Everyone changes, and as you age you feel as if time goes faster.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
every 2 years you turn into a very different person. If you say/type statements 2 years, and beyond ago, then look back at them, you might disagree with a lot of it. I've done this hundreds of times personally.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
Time itself though, doesn't speed up, however, as you age, it just seems that way. You slowly become more and more used to things and living and you just kind of let more and more things get by you, making it 'speed up'. Is what I'm saying.[/QUOTE]
Every asshole in my school after 5 years is still an asshole. Sure they have a shitty job if any at all, but they didn't change shit.
As the time going faster, only works if you lead a boring or monotone life really.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33043141]Every asshole in my school after 5 years is still an asshole. Sure they have a shitty job if any at all, but they didn't change shit.
As the time going faster, only works if you lead a boring or monotone life really.[/QUOTE]
That's just bias generalization. If you are not willing to make the commitments to change yourself, then of course you won't change.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;32852770]Suicide is incredibly selfish, because it leaves all of your issues behind for those who loved you[/QUOTE]
You realize many people that plan on committing suicide aren't exactly fond of their "loved ones"?
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;33043688]That's just bias generalization. If you are not willing to make the commitments to change yourself, then of course you won't change.[/QUOTE]
Bias or not, I talk purely from experience.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33043141]Every asshole in my school after 5 years is still an asshole. Sure they have a shitty job if any at all, but they didn't change shit.
As the time going faster, only works if you lead a boring or monotone life really.[/QUOTE]
Like B!N4RY said, biased generalization.
Then again, I'm in the suburbs.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
But people do change in time, whether you see it, or not.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33043931]Like B!N4RY said, biased generalization.
Then again, I'm in the suburbs.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
But people do change in time, whether you see it, or not.[/QUOTE]
Change is one thing. Change that actually impacts and shapes your life, not always.
[quote]Basically what he says is that one of the factors necessary for people to be suicidal is a profound alienation, a complete fracture of the person's connection to the rest of humanity. So, suicidal people are unable to believe that their deaths will cause any sense of grief or loss in others. Thus, their behaviour can appear selfish from the outside.[/quote]
So because they decide that other people's emotions are irrelevant it is no longer selfish?
That they ignore everyone else and focus on themselves?
[QUOTE=Phsykotik;33044577]So because they decide that other people's emotions are irrelevant it is no longer selfish?
That they ignore everyone else and focus on themselves?[/QUOTE]
Telling a suicidal person they're selfish is like telling a downs person they're stupid. It's true but it doesn't change anything.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;32849413]It might help to discourage some people from doing it.[/QUOTE]
"Shit, I'd really want to kill myself but I'm not too sure, I might go to jail if I do it." People only obey laws if they mach with their own morals or if they're afraid of a punishment.
Suicide is always the most cowardly way out. There's no real consequences for yourself because you'll be fucking dead and it just hurts everyone around you except yourself.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33044745]Telling a suicidal person they're selfish is like [b]telling a downs person they're stupid. It's true[/b] but it doesn't change anything.[/QUOTE]
You have absolutely no understanding of nuance
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
Hey look what quote I feel the need to post again since you all seem to be completely ignoring it: (again, from reddit)
[release]I'm a suicide hotline responder and moderator over at /r/suicidewatch, and I've thought about this a lot, so I can't resist weighing in even though I'm kind of late arriving.
Everything I've figured out about this issue over the years is totally validated in the excellent book [url=http://books.google.com/books?id=RSt4hnnKoWkC]Myths About Suicide[/url] by Thomas Joiner, one of the leading research psychologists working in suicidology today. He does an excellent job of both debunking the fallacy that suicide is selfish, and explaining why this mistaken idea is so persistent.
Basically what he says is that one of the factors necessary for people to be suicidal is a profound alienation, a complete fracture of the person's connection to the rest of humanity. So, suicidal people are unable to believe that their deaths will cause any sense of grief or loss in others. Thus, their behaviour can appear selfish from the outside.
But, this kind of alienation is very difficult for someone who has not "been there" to understand. Plus, suicidal behaviour, whether the attempts are completed or not, usually results in tremendous pain and trouble for others. So, the myth that "suicide is selfish" persists.
The origins of the myth (also discussed by Joiner) are probably in the religious doctrines that labelled suicide as sinful, but I think the reason that it hangs around are psychological, not theological.
A lot of people posting here seem to be assuming that it's logical to infer that suicidal behaviour is selfish because it causes suffering. That doesn't take into account the degree to which the suicidal mindset's worldview is skewed. Most suicidal people truly believe that they have nothing to offer the world and that they don't belong in it, and that the best thing they can do to improve the world is to take themselves out of it. Their self-destructive actions are rooted in that belief. The fact that these beliefs are usually wrong doesn't make their actions selfish, just tragically misguided.[/release]
I'm probably late to the party, and I don't entirely feel in the right mood to read the whole thread. Anyways...
I feel that if you know someone who has committed suicide, you should feel some comfort knowing it is what they wanted. I said some, not a whole lot, and it is still saddening that people commit suicide.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33045806]You have absolutely no understanding of nuance
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
Hey look what quote I feel the need to post again since you all seem to be completely ignoring it: (again, from reddit)
[release]I'm a suicide hotline responder and moderator over at /r/suicidewatch, and I've thought about this a lot, so I can't resist weighing in even though I'm kind of late arriving.
Everything I've figured out about this issue over the years is totally validated in the excellent book [url=http://books.google.com/books?id=RSt4hnnKoWkC]Myths About Suicide[/url] by Thomas Joiner, one of the leading research psychologists working in suicidology today. He does an excellent job of both debunking the fallacy that suicide is selfish, and explaining why this mistaken idea is so persistent.
Basically what he says is that one of the factors necessary for people to be suicidal is a profound alienation, a complete fracture of the person's connection to the rest of humanity. So, suicidal people are unable to believe that their deaths will cause any sense of grief or loss in others. Thus, their behaviour can appear selfish from the outside.
But, this kind of alienation is very difficult for someone who has not "been there" to understand. Plus, suicidal behaviour, whether the attempts are completed or not, usually results in tremendous pain and trouble for others. So, the myth that "suicide is selfish" persists.
The origins of the myth (also discussed by Joiner) are probably in the religious doctrines that labelled suicide as sinful, but I think the reason that it hangs around are psychological, not theological.
A lot of people posting here seem to be assuming that it's logical to infer that suicidal behaviour is selfish because it causes suffering. That doesn't take into account the degree to which the suicidal mindset's worldview is skewed. Most suicidal people truly believe that they have nothing to offer the world and that they don't belong in it, and that the best thing they can do to improve the world is to take themselves out of it. Their self-destructive actions are rooted in that belief. The fact that these beliefs are usually wrong doesn't make their actions selfish, just tragically misguided.[/release][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Phsykotik;33044577]So because they decide that other people's emotions are irrelevant it is no longer selfish?
That they ignore everyone else and focus on themselves?[/QUOTE]
Why should suicidal people care if they are or are not selfish?
[QUOTE=J!NX;33042777]So people don't change and time doesn't go faster as you age?[/QUOTE]
I've been basically bipolar all my life, it's probably never going away and I refuse to take medication for it, so it's unlikely it'll ever improve that much
Tried to commit suicide several times before, have failed. Still consider doing it again but some part of my psyche isn't damaged enough and refuses to let me.
Why must I suffer with such torment as living in a world I do not feel a part of.
:smith:
[QUOTE=Phsykotik;33045893][quote]So because they decide that other people's emotions are irrelevant it is no longer selfish?
That they ignore everyone else and focus on themselves?[/quote][/QUOTE]
What are you failing to understand? In the vast majority of cases, when someone kills themselves they believe that others will be better off without them there. That's the whole reason people get driven to suicide in the first place. It's right there, in plain text, read.
-snipped out latter half, wasn't related or necessary-
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33052027]What are you failing to understand? In the vast majority of cases, when someone kills themselves they believe that others will be better off without them there. That's the whole reason people get driven to suicide in the first place. It's right there, in plain text, read.
-snipped out latter half, wasn't related or necessary-[/QUOTE]
No, it suggests neutrality. That while it won't cause negative effects, it doesn't necessarily cause anything beneficial.
I am not saying anything is wrong with it being selfish, most everything done is, but it is selfish because they do it more for themselves than anyone around them.
That is all I am arguing.
[QUOTE=Phsykotik;33057638]No, it suggests neutrality. That while it won't cause negative effects, it doesn't necessarily cause anything beneficial.[/QUOTE]
If either one of those is the case, you can't say that the person is acting selfishly.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33048764]I've been basically bipolar all my life, it's probably never going away and I refuse to take medication for it, so it's unlikely it'll ever improve that much[/QUOTE]
That's your own fault. Maybe next year you'll decide that taking the medication is the right option and it might get better. Or worse, either way you will have changed.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33067052]If either one of those is the case, you can't say that the person is acting selfishly.[/QUOTE]
No, because they still do it for themselves...
[QUOTE=squids_eye;33068170]That's your own fault. Maybe next year you'll decide that taking the medication is the right option and it might get better. Or worse, either way you will have changed.[/QUOTE]
medication would make the whole situation worse for me, it fucks with your creativity and your drive, which are pretty much paramount to my life as a writer. Besides I fucking love it when I'm happy, so why would I want to flatten it all out?
i want to get a couple things straight 1: suicide is not a victoms crime 2:just because you getbully'ed in school you sholdnt kill yourself 3: in my opinion suicide is a somewhat corawardly thing to do. it reminds me about emos and WHY they cut themselves and cry like "i didnt get the new video game i wanted BOOO HOOO ''slice''slice'' it can also be a bit selfish at times to kill yourself think of the others who loved you why would you want to kill yourself?
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