Super Friendly Social and Love Advice V6 - JUST FUCKING ASK HER OUT

[AltUser]

Well guys. Some of you know about he story about me and my ex. Where I "assaulted" her, which wasn't true. Now she's ranting about it online for everyone to see, and everyone thinks I'm a horrible person.
My so called friends have stopped inviting me places, because she is also in the same friendship group, and I'm pretty sure they all must hate me now. I really can't take much more of all this, its making me really depressed. I'm not a bad person, why can't people see that?

[RocketRacer]

oh shit oh shit Thursday is the day I go to my college and meet with people and get to know what 6th Form is. oh god, I can't wait for it but I also kind of feel nervous. Staff told me that students are actually friendly to newcomers.

[editline]3rd September 2013[/editline]

I am a foreign student in UK's college, basicly.

[Big Dumb Patriot]

I've been thinking more on career/college options, and I spoke to my dad for the first time about my interest in becoming a marine technician. He wasn't quite as supportive as I'd hoped. He doesn't want me learning a trade skill; he thinks I should just go to a four year university and major in something, because a college degree is more versatile than a trade skill. Which is hard to argue with, but I don't think it's a fair shake, considering my plan.

The only things I'm really interested in for a career are engineering related. Architecture and nautical engineering (marine architecture!) are my primary interests, but I'm just not mathematically minded enough to breeze through them. I'd have to start at a high school level of math in order to develop enough of a base understanding to consider majoring in any kind of engineering, which would mean that my bachelor's degree is at least 6-8 years down the road. It'll be a long time and a really difficult road before I'll be designing any boats, so I want to become a marine technician to learn how to repair, maintain, and build them in the meantime.

But pa's really giving me a hard guilt trip over this. He's all, "it isn't like I wouldn't support you if that's what you decided to do, but I don't want to see you making a huge mistake. A certificate really limits your options."

That's not really that effin' supportive, is it? It's not supporting me at all if you're telling me what a big mistake I'm making! And the way I see it, a certificate in a trade skill does not preclude a degree in a related engineering field. The technician institute I'm looking at is just one year long, and it costs about the same as a year at any other college; so I would be trading one additional year of school for having a job that could net me 30-40k per year as I work through my engineering studies. It would also grant me a better understanding of what it is I want to work with when I get my engineering degree, because I would assume it's generally a good thing for an engineer to have an intimate knowledge of the subject of his engineering specialty.

I can take my year at the marine technician's institute, and then continue to pursue my marine engineering degree while actually being able to be self-sufficient during the decade it would take to achieve it. Is that not a sound plan, or what? It makes sense to me, but dad's acting like I'm resigning myself to a life of misery and underachievement. Frankly, I think I would be happy in that career even if I weren't planning to continue my education after the institute, but I [I]am[/I]. And it makes sense! We're not wealthy-- it's just my dad and I. We can't afford to float me through college with just one adult income; I'm sick of having to borrow money from my dad to make ends meet.

I want to go through college without having this constant worry that the bottom is going to fall out, especially if I'm trying to learn something that I struggle with as much as I do math. Worry-free, comfortable, and at my own pace: that is how I want to approach university.

Unless somebody wants to toss me a hundred grand or so to push me through college on a cloud, I don't see what's wrong with what I'm suggesting.

[Loopoo]

Your dad has a bunch of valid points. 6-8 years is nothing in the long-run, and once it's over, you're set for life. I'm 20 years old and I'll be doing a 4 year course then 2 years for my Master's, it's a long-ass time but I know it'll be worth it. Graduating at 26 cause I've fucked up in the past, when there are guys I know who have graduated and are working at 23 cause they didn't, it sucks. A trade skill can't be compared to a Master's degree, though there are examples that we can all come up with to support either side of the argument. Plus, would you be guaranteed a job right after the one year at the Institute you want to go to? You'd be forced to go wherever there's a job, and that might take you far away from a university that is good for your degree. Plus, don't trade skills give you jobs with very low salaries at the start, since they're very experience-dependent to bump up the salary? I dunno man, I think you should go with the uni degree from the get-go. Surely there are courses you can apply to (like night school or something) to get your maths to a sufficient level? High-school level of Maths really isn't incredibly tough, and coming at it when you're older is a lot easier (I just sat highschool Maths now, it isn't anywhere near as hard as A-level shit, but I don't know how the American system is, do you have highschool exams [GCSEs] and then the much harder A-level-like exams?).

I think you could definitely do the Uni degree, although like you said, it wouldn't be a breeze, but it hardly ever is. Uni is hard work but it definitely pays off, and you'll have the support of your classmates and I'm sure you'd get study groups going so it'd be easier to tackle hard subjects together? But if you're set on going the Institute route, good luck. I just hope once you pass after that year, you're not left job-searching for months.

[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]

I don't even know what the working hours for a trade job are like, but you have to be pretty darn focused if you're taking an engineering-related degree, would the trade job allow you that freedom? My friends who do Architecture have big group projects they work on that ends up being a huge time-sink.

[Big Dumb Patriot]

Except I'll be thirty or older by the time I have my [I]bachelor's,[/I] and that's if I started going to school full-time again at the start of the next semester. And nevermind a Master's degree. I haven't even finished my associate's degree yet, and an associate's of engineering will take me 2-3 more years to finish. Realistically, I've a decade of school ahead of me if I am planning to major in engineering of any kind, and that's going to be school that is jammed pack full of the most advanced math we have short of theoretical physics, and that's my fucking nightmare scenario. I can't be borrowing money from my dad that whole time. I need to be able to sustain myself financially, and you just can't do that working a high school student job with one parent who's nearly as broke as you are. I have to have a firm income, because the amount of stress I'm under because of my current financial situation makes focusing on school extremely difficult.

Believe me, if I could go to school full time without having to worry about making ends meet, I'd be all over being a professional student for a while. I would [I]love[/I] to be able to get by on part-time employment, so that I could focus more time on studying, but it's just not on the table. If I have to go school full time in an extremely difficult career field [I]and[/I] have to work full time, and [I]still[/I] barely make ends meet, I am just not going to be able to keep that up into my thirties.

I need stability. A one year detour from engineering to cinch a position as a marine technician would offer me that stability.

[killerteacup]

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;42070631]I've been thinking more on career/college options, and I spoke to my dad for the first time about my interest in becoming a marine technician. He wasn't quite as supportive as I'd hoped. He doesn't want me learning a trade skill; he thinks I should just go to a four year university and major in something, because a college degree is more versatile than a trade skill. Which is hard to argue with, but I don't think it's a fair shake, considering my plan.

The only things I'm really interested in for a career are engineering related. Architecture and nautical engineering (marine architecture!) are my primary interests, but I'm just not mathematically minded enough to breeze through them. I'd have to start at a high school level of math in order to develop enough of a base understanding to consider majoring in any kind of engineering, which would mean that my bachelor's degree is at least 6-8 years down the road. It'll be a long time and a really difficult road before I'll be designing any boats, so I want to become a marine technician to learn how to repair, maintain, and build them in the meantime.

But pa's really giving me a hard guilt trip over this. He's all, "it isn't like I wouldn't support you if that's what you decided to do, but I don't want to see you making a huge mistake. A certificate really limits your options."

That's not really that effin' supportive, is it? It's not supporting me at all if you're telling me what a big mistake I'm making! And the way I see it, a certificate in a trade skill does not preclude a degree in a related engineering field. The technician institute I'm looking at is just one year long, and it costs about the same as a year at any other college; so I would be trading one additional year of school for having a job that could net me 30-40k per year as I work through my engineering studies. It would also grant me a better understanding of what it is I want to work with when I get my engineering degree, because I would assume it's generally a good thing for an engineer to have an intimate knowledge of the subject of his engineering specialty.

I can take my year at the marine technician's institute, and then continue to pursue my marine engineering degree while actually being able to be self-sufficient during the decade it would take to achieve it. Is that not a sound plan, or what? It makes sense to me, but dad's acting like I'm resigning myself to a life of misery and underachievement. Frankly, I think I would be happy in that career even if I weren't planning to continue my education after the institute, but I [I]am[/I]. And it makes sense! We're not wealthy-- it's just my dad and I. We can't afford to float me through college with just one adult income; I'm sick of having to borrow money from my dad to make ends meet.

I want to go through college without having this constant worry that the bottom is going to fall out, especially if I'm trying to learn something that I struggle with as much as I do math. Worry-free, comfortable, and at my own pace: that is how I want to approach university.

Unless somebody wants to toss me a hundred grand or so to push me through college on a cloud, I don't see what's wrong with what I'm suggesting.[/QUOTE]

so long as you know that your dad is always there to support you no matter what his opinion is it is well meant

[Splash Attack]

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;42071207]Except I'll be thirty or older by the time I have my [I]bachelor's,[/I] and that's if I started going to school full-time again at the start of the next semester. And nevermind a Master's degree. I haven't even finished my associate's degree yet, and an associate's of engineering will take me 2-3 more years to finish. Realistically, I've a decade of school ahead of me if I am planning to major in engineering of any kind, and that's going to be school that is jammed pack full of the most advanced math we have short of theoretical physics, and that's my fucking nightmare scenario. I can't be borrowing money from my dad that whole time. I need to be able to sustain myself financially, and you just can't do that working a high school student job with one parent who's nearly as broke as you are. I have to have a firm income, because the amount of stress I'm under because of my current financial situation makes focusing on school extremely difficult.

Believe me, if I could go to school full time without having to worry about making ends meet, I'd be all over being a professional student for a while. I would [I]love[/I] to be able to get by on part-time employment, so that I could focus more time on studying, but it's just not on the table. If I have to go school full time in an extremely difficult career field [I]and[/I] have to work full time, and [I]still[/I] barely make ends meet, I am just not going to be able to keep that up into my thirties.

I need stability. A one year detour from engineering to cinch a position as a marine technician would offer me that stability.[/QUOTE]

I'm an engineering student. It's a 5 year program for me even having math up to trig and pre-calculus and a decent physics course. I know someone who are also majoring in engineering who skipped a year of school. He had to start on college algebra and a fundamental physics course giving him an extra year. It is still possible without too much extra time. I will say though, that the math and physics I have to go through for the first two years is pretty damn challenging. You would definitely be working your ass off. From what I hear though, after you get those out of the way, its a breeze from there on out.

How much math and physics experience do you have form high school?

[Big Dumb Patriot]

[QUOTE=Splash Attack;42071395]I'm an engineering student. It's a 5 year program for me even having math up to trig and pre-calculus and a decent physics course. I know someone who are also majoring in engineering who skipped a year of school. He had to start on college algebra and a fundamental physics course giving him an extra year. It is still possible without too much extra time. I will say though, that the math and physics I have to go through for the first two years is pretty damn challenging. You would definitely be working your ass off. From what I hear though, after you get those out of the way, its a breeze from there on out.

How much math and physics experience do you have form high school?[/QUOTE]

Almost none. I only took the bare minimum for math in high school my freshman and junior year, and didn't touch it again until college, six years later. I took a prep class, which I passed without too much fuss, and then College Algebra 1, which I failed completely. If I'm going to major in engineering, I need to start with the bare bones of early high school level algebra, and slowly work my way up. I already spoke the guidance counselor at my community college, and I would need five more semesters of math classes to qualify for my associates in engineering, and then it's on to the [I]real[/I] math.

Give how poor I am math, and how much is ahead of me, you can understand why I'm stressing out about this so much. I have to eliminate every distraction. I need a stable job that pays enough money to erase any concerns about making financial ends meet, I need a comfortable and happy environment to unwind in, and I need to take these classes at my own pace over a very long period of time to ensure that I learn and retain everything. I am really looking forward to the creativity and design associated with marine architecture/engineering, because designing seacraft sounds like the coolest job in the world to me, but the mathematical side is really tearing me up. I have to make sure that, if I'm going to do this, I do it without the fear and stress associated with worrying about work, or bills, or where I'm living.

[evilweazel]

In my opinion, if you're not a big fan of math, and especially complex math, anything engineering probably wouldn't be very enjoyable for you, considering that's like, the base level of what most engineering is, lots of numbers and formulas to go by. It might just be me but if you can't really enjoy the most basic and commonly used things in the field, it doesn't seem like something yer cut out for. Sure there are lots of things on top of it that could be interesting, but the math seems like what would be used the most in the career by far.

I don't mean to sound condescending if I do by the way, I jump for joy if I do a basic algebra problem correctly so I'm not any better with it :v:

[Loopoo]

Are there any other degrees that would interest you? Because Engineering sounds like it's a monumental task for you to even begin studying. Is there nothing else you could see yourself doing?

[Big Dumb Patriot]

[QUOTE=evilweazel;42071540]In my opinion, if you're not a big fan of math, and especially complex math, anything engineering probably wouldn't be very enjoyable for you, considering that's like, the base level of what most engineering is, lots of numbers and formulas to go by. It might just be me but if you can't really enjoy the most basic and commonly used things in the field, it doesn't seem like something yer cut out for. Sure there are lots of things on top of it that could be interesting, but the math seems like what would be used the most in the career by far.

I don't mean to sound condescending if I do by the way, I jump for joy if I do a basic algebra problem correctly so I'm not any better with it :v:[/QUOTE]

That's what I tried telling my dad. I think I would be happy just being a marine technician, but he thinks that it's underachieving. My perfect life is living in some quiet American Island nation like Guam or the Virgin islands, in a little house by the beach, working with boats or the sea in some fashion, and making enough money to provide for myself and my family without any fuss or worry about being able to afford the bare necessities.

But dad insisted on a degree, and this is the only thing I can think of that puts me on that path. I went over every career field at [url]http://www.oceancareers.com/2.0/index.php[/url] , and becoming a boat technician/mechanic is the only thing short of naval architecture that feels right. That's why I really want to study it. If I fail at engineering, or just discover that I'm deeply unhappy in it, I'll have that a happy place to fall back on.

[Loopoo]

Oh, isn't there something in America where you can join the Navy for like a set period of time, then afterwards carry on your degree in uni (which the Navy pays towards) or have I got that wrong? IIRC, a medical condition didn't allow you to join the Army, but maybe joining the Navy as a Mechanic will be allowed?

[Big Dumb Patriot]

There is no cross-branch enlisting available for medically discharged veterans, and regardless of that, I would never again sign away my life and freedom of choice to any military organization. Respect to those who do, but I was a miserable soldier who was not at all suited to uniforms and orders.

[Splash Attack]

Yeah, from the way it sounds, engineering probably isn't the way to go in your case. It's possible you could find something more on the creative/design side of things. More of an artist than an engineer. I'm not sure what job title or degree that would be, but it could be worth looking into. If I had to guess, you would have to learn up to trigonometry and maybe some basic calculus at some point, just so you can more easily quantify and work with the geometry of things.

Honestly, I don't really know what to say other than chase your dreams. Do whatever it takes to make yourself happy.

[evilweazel]

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;42071576]That's what I tried telling my dad. I think I would be happy just being a marine technician, but he thinks that it's underachieving. My perfect life is living in some quiet American Island nation like Guam or the Virgin islands, in a little house by the beach, working with boats or the sea in some fashion, and making enough money to provide for myself and my family without any fuss or worry about being able to afford the bare necessities.

But dad insisted on a degree, and this is the only thing I can think of that puts me on that path. I went over every career field at [url]http://www.oceancareers.com/2.0/index.php[/url] , and becoming a boat technician/mechanic is the only thing short of naval architecture that feels right. That's why I really want to study it. If I fail at engineering, or just discover that I'm deeply unhappy in it, I'll have that a happy place to fall back on.[/QUOTE]

Is your dad gonna be funding your education at all or is he just putting in his two cents as to what you should do? If it's something that you really wanna do and your dad doesn't like it, I suppose you could just agree to disagree. I'd assume that marine techs are quite needed, in all honesty. Boats are everywhere, literally, if he's worried about you not being able to find work.

[Splash Attack]

And don't forget, a degree is just a piece of paper if you can't get an actual job with it.

My automergeee

[Loopoo]

A degree is just a piece of paper if you can't get an actual job with it, but having a Master's in something makes that somewhat unlikely, especially in such a sought after degree like Engineering. But working a trade is a lot more risky.

BDA, if you're happy doing a boat technician/mechanic trade, go for it. 30-40k will be fine living off of as a bachelor, but once you've got a family to care for, things'll get tight. But as long as you're doing what you love, I'm sure it won't matter, and it's not like you'll be the sole provider, I'm sure your SO will be working a job too.

[MindMuncher]

I don't know. You're getting a lot of negative feedback on this BDA, but I think that your plan is excellent.

Here's how I see it: Both plans have merit (I personally share your *ehem* affinity for mathematics and that may help me see your peril there, having failed college algebra 1 myself and fucked myself for the first year of college (get a D and I'm expelled- whole other story)) and I do think that the marine tech job sounds more ideal, but (I'm going to go all liberal arts on yo ass here) the crux of the issue is that you have already chosen in your head which one you see yourself doing.

That isn't a physical barrier by any means, and if you change your mind now, then a-okay. It is a big boost to the one you have chosen however, because what mental images we hold of ourselves greatly influence our motivation to do something, and by extension: our tendency to actually learn and retain the information. We play roles every day of our lives and imagine ourselves as things that we could be and aren't, and it really does affect the way we learn and what we chose to do. A lot of your day-to-day choices are really not thought about (and thus not choices unless you stop and analyze them before performing them) because it's our brain's way of streamlining monotonous activity and doing less work. Your actions often come from what role you decide to play, or more often have come into the habit of playing in that environment. This happens with everyone all the time and it's really no biggy concerning what we're talking about except to say this:

You have already decided that you want to play the role of the marine technician, and see yourself becoming this. No it's not fate or mysticism or whatever, and you can change it, but right now, your brain will be much more efficient at learning that trade skill than earning a degree, because it is a considered choice that you have made, and if you do end up doing it, you will be partially working to prove to yourself and to your dad that that was the right choice (even if you don't know it, and this is by no means a bad or spiteful motivation) and partially benefitting from playing a role that you believe yourself capable of that has already found its home in your mental wardrobe of different 'outfits'.

That make sense?
If it does, then it's good advice for a lot of the things in here. The roles we can imagine ourselves playing, and the identities that we imagine ourselves capable of are those that our brain is most motivated to develop. For example, a kid in a chemistry classroom isn't in there because he sees learning Hydrochlorate's weight in Moles or whatever as an important step in his life. If he values the class, he's there because he sees himself as someone who can play the role of a chemist, and who for the time being adopts the values that he believes to be that of a chemist (namely that he thinks that even fundamental chemistry problems are important to a chemist and worthy of learning). These students are the ones who are the most successful because they are the ones who, through seeing themselves [i]able[/i] to take on an identity can actually have the motivation and perseverance to take the steps necessary to [i]become[/i] the chemist that they played earlier in their learning careers.

So uh, TLDR;

Applying the idea of roles to these situations:

BDA: You've taken on a role in your head, however ephemerally, and that learning path is more open to you while you hold that view, plus if you feel like you chose it, you'll have more motivation to do it, and an easier time being happy while doing it.

General Social Advice: If you're unhappy with how you are, start imagining yourself playing other roles. There is a reason that smiling at yourself in the mirror a couple times a day actually tends to make people happier. If you don't know how to do something, or feel uncomfortable with a necessary part of life, you try practicing taking on an identity that you see as surmounting that trouble and you will have more success. Perhaps not for a while, but you will be more apt to follow paths that will teach you more on how to solve it yourself, and be more ready to take steps to get there.

Life is role-play, so pick what you want to be and you'll be better at it. Just don't pick astronaut, because then you'll just be jealous while other people who don't have a history of hiccups or sneezes get to ride rockets into the great Yonder up and out. Gotta stay realistic.

[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]

Also naval architecture sounds badass.

[Zorkov]

hi i have a question

is it generally conceived as an assholish thing to do if there are two best friends and one of them has overbearing feelings for a girl for months, and the other friend supports him, until the other friend develops feelings for the girl too, swoops in, woos her, and then begins dating her, knowing full well that the first friend has had feelings for her for far longer and has tried very hard to get with her? like if the first friend has had feelings for her for [I]months[/I] and, in a period of only a week or two, the other friend manages to begin dating her, leaving the first friend in the dust?

because that is what happened to me and it feels terrible, and everybody is trying to convince me that it was meant to be with the both of them, and that he was perfectly in the right to start talking to her even though i already was. i thought there was a principle wherein you'd show restraint out of respect for who was, at one point, your very best friend, but plenty of people are trying to convince me otherwise and i just don't know what to think or do.

[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]

like that just seems like something that is completely trivial and stupid to a third party, like it doesn't even matter, but for me, seeing my chances with her decline instantly from pretty good to null, it just kills me.

[Loopoo]

Dude, you left it for months. You should have acted on your feelings far sooner. The fact your best friend had the courage to get out there and make it happen, it's not an inherently shitty thing to do. Heck, if I had a best friend who'd been telling me about this girl for months and yet still hadn't gotten with her, I'd just think that he and the girl don't have chemistry and just aren't working out. If I was really interested in the girl, I'd probably act on my feelings and go for her despite my best friend's feelings. Why sit around and hold yourself back from being attracted to someone because your friend isn't hitting it off with them or whatever? Also, maybe as your best friend he could see that a relationship between the two of you wouldn't work out. If the girl felt attracted to you, I'm sure you'd have gotten somewhere in a few months.

Sucks that it happened to you man, but take it as a life lesson. Next time you bump into a girl who you have strong feelings for, don't take it so slow. Leave your comfort zone and make things happen. I've had the same happen to me aaaaages ago, and I learnt from that mistake. Yes, I felt extremely terrible about the situation, but I didn't hold it against my buddy. In fact, I was happy for him. Just because you have feelings for a girl doesn't automatically stake a claim on her.

[Zorkov]

but see, the reason he managed to get to her so fast is because he always wanted to tag along with me when i hung out with her, just because we were friends (not because he liked her at that point)

but from hanging out with her with me, he developed feelings for her. he would have never been able to get to her that fast had it not been for that. he would have ever even known her. it just feels like he used me to get to her, and then has blown me off since then.

[Loopoo]

I learnt from that mistake btw, now when I like a girl, I act on it and it "usually" works out well. If it doesn't, I'll know sooner rather than later that she isn't interested and I can just carry on having a great friendship with her. It's better than twiddling my thumbs for months on end feeling attracted to and hung up on a girl only to find out she isn't interested. My most recent ex, I got together with her within a month and a half of meeting her, and we were together for 2 great years (and still know each other 3 years on [a year from our breakup]). I'm sure if I hadn't acted as fast as I did, someone else would have swooped in and made her fall for them.

My automerge ahhhh. I don't know man, the only thing you can do is move on. Being hung up on it or holding a grudge against your best friend is only going to make things even more shitty. From what I can tell, it seems you're rather young, so don't let it get you down, there'll be better girls out there. Take this as an experience and don't let it happen again (hopefully). Literally the best thing you can do right now is just get over her, cause painting him out to be a villain and stuff is only going to cause stressful drama.

[Zorkov]

another reason it's upsetting too is because neither of them give me hardly any attention anymore. before they started dating, we all hung out often and it was great, but now both of them blow me off only to hang out with each other and talk to each other. surely a best friend would also be able to make room for his friend even though he is in a relationship?

[Loopoo]

^ the start of relationships (especially the first few relationships you have in your life) are usually very heady. They're both probably infatuated with each other and are being bombarded with all these emotions. It's very common for a new couple to become completely engrossed in each other's company and life.

[Zorkov]

i suppose so. i feel so left out though and there's nothing i can do about it. i know, as well, that if the roles were reversed, my friend would likely feel the same about me. which is why i would never do that.

perhaps it is BECAUSE i would never, in my wildest dreams, ever try to talk to and hang out with a girl (let alone date a girl) that my best friend had been talking to, that i have these perceptions that it is wrong. that just seems like such a dick thing to do. and yet here we are.

[Guy Mannly]

[QUOTE=OrkO;42072009]i suppose so. i feel so left out though and there's nothing i can do about it. i know, as well, that if the roles were reversed, my friend would likely feel the same about me. which is why i would never do that.

perhaps it is BECAUSE i would never, in my wildest dreams, ever try to talk to and hang out with a girl (let alone date a girl) that my best friend had been talking to, that i have these perceptions that it is wrong. that just seems like such a dick thing to do. and yet here we are.[/QUOTE]

you had your chance, you had MONTHS to make a move, and you didn't take it. she's not reserved for you indefinitely until you man up.

[editline]3rd September 2013[/editline]

and if she likes your friend better than you, tough break. it's her choice who she dates, not yours.

[Loopoo]

[QUOTE=OrkO;42072009]i suppose so. i feel so left out though and there's nothing i can do about it. i know, as well, that if the roles were reversed, my friend would likely feel the same about me. which is why i would never do that.

perhaps it is BECAUSE i would never, in my wildest dreams, ever try to talk to and hang out with a girl (let alone date a girl) that my best friend had been talking to, that i have these perceptions that it is wrong. that just seems like such a dick thing to do. and yet here we are.[/QUOTE]

Trust me, it's easy to say you wouldn't do it to him, but when you're in a new relationship, you can't help but want to spend every waking minute with your new SO. You blow people off without even realizing it.

[Zorkov]

part of this also stems from the fact that, back in decemberish, he started getting closer to a girl he had feelings for for, what had to be a year. as a consequence, the three of us (very similar to this situation) had always hung out, and she started to get feelings for me and ask to hang out just the two of us. i told my friend this (because i always tell him details like that, something which he has gradually done less and less over the months in return) and he said that if i made any move with her he would never talk to me again. so we promised that if either of us had feelings for someone, the other friend would never interfere. it was kind of a friends-esque pact. and then he blew it with her. the difference between these situations, though, are that i only really had feelings for this girl for two months or so, probably since june or july, whereas he had absolutely admired this girl for probably a year before all of that happened

[thisispain]

[QUOTE=OrkO;42071974]another reason it's upsetting too is because neither of them give me hardly any attention anymore. before they started dating, we all hung out often and it was great, but now both of them blow me off only to hang out with each other and talk to each other. surely a best friend would also be able to make room for his friend even though he is in a relationship?[/QUOTE]

being a third wheel sucks but dont whine about it on the internet come on

[Guy Mannly]

[QUOTE=OrkO;42072094]part of this also stems from the fact that, back in decemberish, he started getting closer to a girl he had feelings for for, what had to be a year. as a consequence, the three of us (very similar to this situation) had always hung out, and she started to get feelings for me and ask to hang out just the two of us. i told my friend this (because i always tell him details like that, something which he has gradually done less and less over the months in return) and he said that if i made any move with her he would never talk to me again. so we promised that if either of us had feelings for someone, the other friend would never interfere. it was kind of a friends-esque pact. and then he blew it with her. the difference between these situations, though, are that i only really had feelings for this girl for two months or so, probably since june or july, whereas he had absolutely admired this girl for probably a year before all of that happened[/QUOTE]

uh, hello? do the women in question get any say in this? they're not property, have you considered letting the girls you like decide who they're more interested in for themselves?