#ProudToBe [YouTube Spotlight/Huge Shitstorm in the Comments] - General

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50586846]Accidently boldened the wrong sentence, but the first paragraph of the article says:[/QUOTE] That sentences doesn't invalidate what I'm saying? [url]http://www.liminalis.de/2009_03/TMM/tmm-englisch/Liminalis-2009-TMM-report2008-2009-en.pdf[/url] Have another source. [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=dimitrik129;50586846] Being that, how is this supposed to be a credible article if data is so clearly sparse.[/QUOTE] its far more credible then the blog you linked though? You seriously have the audacity to call my sources bad when you sourced a blog post?

What is to prove that they were murdered for being transgender? By the way - what's the point of turning this argument upside down when all I am arguing is that it should be up the businesses to decide who they think should be in their bathrooms. [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;50586855]That sentences doesn't invalidate what I'm saying? [url]http://www.liminalis.de/2009_03/TMM/tmm-englisch/Liminalis-2009-TMM-report2008-2009-en.pdf[/url] Have another source. [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] its far more credible then the blog you linked though? You seriously have the audacity to call my sources bad when you sourced a blog post?[/QUOTE] [url]http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12119-011-9093-2[/url]

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50586910]What is to prove that they were murdered for being transgender?[/quote] How about you read the sources to find out. [quote] By the way - what's the point of turning this argument upside down when all I am arguing is that it should be up the businesses to decide who they think should be in their bathrooms.[/QUOTE] Because that's a great way to enable discrimination.

Over the years I've realized that the funny thing about the entire LGBT debate is that everything about it is moot and pointless The only lives who will be affected by LGBT people are people who have an irrational disdain for them. And even then, the perceived affect is only imagined.

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50586910] [URL]http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12119-011-9093-2[/URL][/QUOTE] what the fuck does the cover of the rolling stones have to do with literally anything being discussed? Stop pulling irrelevant nonsense into the discussion or concede that you can't actually justify your argument.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;50586926]How about you read the sources to find out. Because that's a great way to enable discrimination.[/QUOTE] So we shouldn't respect another person's religious rights as with Muslim bakers refusing to bake cakes for homosexual weddings?

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50586951]So we shouldn't respect another person's religious rights as with Muslim bakers refusing the bake cakes for homosexual weddings?[/QUOTE] what the fuck does this have to do with anything at all :v:

[QUOTE=J!NX;50586960]what the fuck does this have to do with anything at all :v:[/QUOTE] Because businesses make these decisions based on personal philosophies, religious beliefs, and political beliefs. They should be allowed to make decisions like this without government intervention.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50586938]In the past century there has been very many bias members in the medical community that has made the DSM the way it is today. Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness until the mid 70's and until 2013 GID is no longer a disorder. If you look at the authors and researchers who are publishing these findings are mostly liberal and they express their liberal view through their work. [/QUOTE] Whether or not they're liberal is an irrelevance and pointing that out shows your bias in your analysis of the situation [quote] We should not be making "mental illness" normal and ok just because it offends those who have it. What I quite don't understand is why is there a difference in gender and sex? To me sex/gender is not a social or cultural behavior, it is a reference to what sex chromosomes you have. When you are born a male your brain should not be wired to believe you're a female for obvious biological reasons and vice versa. [/quote] Gender and sex have two seperate definitions in the dictionary. Furthermore transgenderism has already been proven to be more then a purely mental issue [QUOTE=Kyle902;50586522]so in other words your entire argument is "but its traditional to!!!". There is no logical reason to disallow trans people from using the bathroom of their identified gender. There are also [URL="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/"]measurable[/URL] [URL="http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/hormonal/brain_sex_diff.htm"]biological[/URL] [URL="http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/12/cercor.bhu194.full"]differences [/URL]that indicate that transgenderism isn't simply a mental illness and in fact has roots in the physiological.[/QUOTE] I believe we should treat everyone with respect but we should not go out of our way to give special attention to those with this "disorder". Some transgender people won't even communicate with you if you don't use their preferred pronouns, and that is quite frankly ridiculous. We should not be making special bathrooms just for a small minority of people.[/quote] Would you communicate with someone who called you ma'am? [quote] and no, the medical community does not 100% agree with this change. [URL="http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change"]Here[/URL] is just one of the many medical professionals who don't agree. [/quote] So in other words you found one dude who supports your views and somehow this invalidates the consensus of the medical community? [quote] We need to keep our biases out of our scientific and medical conclusions. To me transgenderism is like a horse wanting to be a zebra so someone paints stripes on it and calls it a zebra when in reality it has every biological reason to be called a horse. [/quote] Its not like there or physiological differences or anything oh wait [QUOTE=Kyle902;50586522]so in other words your entire argument is "but its traditional to!!!". There is no logical reason to disallow trans people from using the bathroom of their identified gender. There are also [URL="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/"]measurable[/URL] [URL="http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/hormonal/brain_sex_diff.htm"]biological[/URL] [URL="http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/12/cercor.bhu194.full"]differences [/URL]that indicate that transgenderism isn't simply a mental illness and in fact has roots in the physiological.[/QUOTE] [Quote]]♧ There was a reason homosexuality and GID were classified as mental disorders. Not off bias right-wingers but scientific studies without bias. [/quote] Again showing your own personal bias by injecting justification for the right wing. Whether they are right wing or left wing is irrelevant. [quote] In conclusion,[B] we as a society are becoming more accepting[/B] and sugar coating sexuality because we are afraid it might offend them. I know it is not their fault for being transgender but they were born that way. Just imagine if we went around calling depression normal because it offends them when you call them depressed. There is every biological reason why transgenderism is a mental disorder.[/quote] Are you implying that society becoming more accepting is a bad thing?

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50586938] To me sex/gender is not a social or cultural behavior, it is a reference to what sex chromosomes you have. When you are born a male your brain should not be wired to believe you're a female for obvious biological reasons and vice versa. [/QUOTE] Just want to correct you there. There is a difference between sex and gender. [url]http://www.med.monash.edu.au/gendermed/sexandgender.html[/url] Sex = male and female Gender = masculine and feminine

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50586938]In the past century there has been very many bias members in the medical community that has made the DSM the way it is today. Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness until the mid 70's and until 2013 GID is no longer a disorder. If you look at the authors and researchers who are publishing these findings are mostly liberal and they express their liberal view through their work. We should not be making "mental illness" normal and ok just because it offends those who have it. What I quite don't understand is why is there a difference in gender and sex? To me sex/gender is not a social or cultural behavior, it is a reference to what sex chromosomes you have. When you are born a male your brain should not be wired to believe you're a female for obvious biological reasons and vice versa. I believe we should treat everyone with respect but we should not go out of our way to give special attention to those with this "disorder". Some transgender people won't even communicate with you if you don't use their preferred pronouns, and that is quite frankly ridiculous. We should not be making special bathrooms just for a small minority of people. and no, the medical community does not 100% agree with this change. [URL="http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change"]Here[/URL] is just one of the many medical professionals who don't agree. We need to keep our biases out of our scientific and medical conclusions. To me transgenderism is like a horse wanting to be a zebra so someone paints stripes on it and calls it a zebra when in reality it has every biological reason to be called a horse. There was a reason homosexuality and GID were classified as mental disorders. Not off bias right-wingers but scientific studies without bias. In conclusion, we as a society are becoming more accepting and sugar coating sexuality because we are afraid it might offend them. I know it is not their fault for being transgender but they were born that way. Just imagine if we went around calling depression normal because it offends them when you call them depressed. There is every biological reason why transgenderism is a mental disorder.[/QUOTE] Transgenderism is having the mental state and conditions of the other sex, it is verifiable through brain chemsitry. What you consider to be "sex" when referring to a woman, or a mans position in society is "Gender". There is nothing genetic tied to sex that causes men to behave as they do. That's cultural. How do we know it's cultural? By looking at other cultures. If all cultures came upon the same end concept of what men and women were "gender" wise, then there would be no deviation. But there is deviation, there is no "Norm" as the roles of men and women vary vastly across the world, through out history. You look at todays world through a lens of perpetuity, as if the roles and conditions of society are eternal. That's okay, most people do too, but the truth of the matter is they're constantly transitioning and changing.

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50586970]Because businesses make these decisions based on personal philosophies, religious beliefs, and political beliefs. They should be allowed to make decisions like this without government intervention.[/QUOTE] that also means restaurants and private schools would be allowed to do this [t]http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/no-dogs-no-jews-no-negros.jpg[/t][t]https://thenaziholocaustjakestolfa.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/no-jews-allowed1.jpg[/t][t]http://cdn.pinknews.co.uk/images/2015/03/queers.jpg[/t] guess how that turned out

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587016]that also means restaurants and private schools would be allowed to do this [t]http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/no-dogs-no-jews-no-negros.jpg[/t] guess how that turned out[/QUOTE] If businesses choose to be discriminatory toward a religion, culture, race, etc. their public image will change accordingly. Same should apply in this situation.

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50587052]If businesses choose to be discriminatory toward a religion, culture, race, etc. their public image will change accordingly. Same should apply in this situation.[/QUOTE] ok, we do this, it happens. We see business's with blatantly racist "NO KIKES/FAGS/NIGGERS ALLOWED" signs here and people are being walked out the door. cool, you're accepting businesses rights... at the cost of peoples rights. So no you end up just harming the rights of more people than you would if you denied the right to do this with business's. You end up losing even more in the end. What happens if a super market tries this? What if Walmart put a huge "NO WHITES ALLOWED" sign at every store You're literally asking for discrimination to be enabled. You're just making the issue worse.

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50587052]If businesses choose to be discriminatory toward a religion, culture, race, etc. their public image will change accordingly. Same should apply in this situation.[/QUOTE] It didn't work in the 50's, it wouldn't work now. All this would do is hurt innocent people for no good reason

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587083]ok, we do this, it happens. We see business's with blatantly racist "NO KIKES/FAGS/NIGGERS ALLOWED" signs here and people are being walked out the door. cool, you're accepting businesses rights... at the cost of peoples rights. So no you end up just harming the rights of more people than you would if you denied the right to do this with business's. You end up losing even more in the end. What happens if a super market tries this? What if Walmart put a huge "NO WHITES ALLOWED" sign at every store You're literally asking for discrimination to be enabled. You're just making the issue worse.[/QUOTE] But guess what? If Walmart did that, they would lose an incredible amount of employees, and customers. The reason businesses choose not to discriminate is because it is not only morally wrong, but bad for business and their profits.

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50587147]But guess what? If Walmart did that, they would lose an incredible amount of employees, and customers. The reason businesses choose not to discriminate is because it is not only morally wrong, but bad for business and their profits.[/QUOTE] I really doubt the Walmart family would be that affected by it tbh they could loose 100 stores and not even flinch just because it hurts a business doesn't mean we should simply allow them to do it. If it's so morally wrong then why allow them to do it?

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587164]I really doubt the Walmart family would be that affected by it tbh they could loose 100 stores and not even flinch just because it hurts a business doesn't mean we should simply allow them to do it. If it's so morally wrong then why allow them to do it?[/QUOTE] [B]Chick-fil-A CEO Cathy: Gay Marriage Still Wrong, But I'll Shut Up About It And Sell Chicken[/B] [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/03/19/chick-fil-a-ceo-cathy-gay-marriage-still-wrong-but-ill-shut-up-about-it-and-sell-chicken/#1957ff3b1a4f[/url]

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50587181][B]Chick-fil-A CEO Cathy: Gay Marriage Still Wrong, But I'll Shut Up About It And Sell Chicken[/B] [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/03/19/chick-fil-a-ceo-cathy-gay-marriage-still-wrong-but-ill-shut-up-about-it-and-sell-chicken/#1957ff3b1a4f[/url][/QUOTE] That's great. But you're throwing sources around that have 0 meaning to me. That didn't answer my question, only avoided it. [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587190]When you're forcefully making them accept everyone then you are infringing upon their religious freedom. There is a good solution but the owner of the business should have the say, not society.[/QUOTE] So at the expense of businesses "expressing their religious freedom" we should let businesses infringe on other peoples religious freedom It's not infringing on their religious freedom at all.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;50586742]Wow 12 pages, who gives a shit. The video meant well but they had a few special snowflake attack helicopters, so what?[/QUOTE] Are you ever going to make a decent post that isn't some snide snipe at a minority group? Holy shit.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50586938]In the past century there has been very many bias members in the medical community that has made the DSM the way it is today. Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness until the mid 70's and until 2013 GID is no longer a disorder. If you look at the authors and researchers who are publishing these findings are mostly liberal and they express their liberal view through their work. We should not be making "mental illness" normal and ok just because it offends those who have it. What I quite don't understand is why is there a difference in gender and sex? To me sex/gender is not a social or cultural behavior, it is a reference to what sex chromosomes you have. When you are born a male your brain should not be wired to believe you're a female for obvious biological reasons and vice versa. I believe we should treat everyone with respect but we should not go out of our way to give special attention to those with this "disorder". Some transgender people won't even communicate with you if you don't use their preferred pronouns, and that is quite frankly ridiculous. We should not be making special bathrooms just for a small minority of people. and no, the medical community does not 100% agree with this change. [URL="http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change"]Here[/URL] is just one of the many medical professionals who don't agree. We need to keep our biases out of our scientific and medical conclusions. To me transgenderism is like a horse wanting to be a zebra so someone paints stripes on it and calls it a zebra when in reality it has every biological reason to be called a horse. There was a reason homosexuality and GID were classified as mental disorders. Not off bias right-wingers but scientific studies without bias. In conclusion, we as a society are becoming more accepting and sugar coating sexuality because we are afraid it might offend them. I know it is not their fault for being transgender but they were born that way. Just imagine if we went around calling depression normal because it offends them when you call them depressed. There is every biological reason why transgenderism is a mental disorder.[/QUOTE] Dude it has nothing to do with "making Mental Illness normal" its literally about not discriminating against transgender people when there is scientific and medical basis that it is NOT a disorder. Don't believe me? here's a quote from the big book itself explaining why exactly it was changed from Gender Identity Disorder to Gender Dysphoria. [quote=DSCM-V][B][U]Need for Change[/U][/B] Persons experiencing gender dysphoria need a diagnostic term that protects their access to care and [B]won’t be used against them in social, occupational, or legal areas.[/B] When it comes to access to care, many of the treatment options for this condition include counseling, cross-sex hormones, gender reassignment surgery, and social and legal transition to the desired gender. To get insurance coverage for the medical treatments, individuals need a diagnosis. The Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders Work Group was concerned that removing the condition as a psychiatric diagnosis—as some had suggested—would jeopardize access to care. Part of removing stigma is about choosing the right words. Replacing “disorder” with “dysphoria” in the diagnostic label is not only more appropriate and consistent with familiar clinical sexology terminology, [B]it also removes the connotation that the patient is “disordered.”[/B] Ultimately, the changes regarding gender dysphoria in DSM-5 respect the individuals identified by offering a diagnostic name that is more appropriate to the symptoms and behaviors they experience without jeopardizing their access to effective treatment options. - [URL="http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender%20dysphoria%20fact%20sheet.pdf"]Source[/URL][/quote]

[QUOTE=hexpunK;50587199]Are you ever going to make a decent post that isn't some snide snipe at a minority group? Holy shit.[/QUOTE] he was talking about the people who are against LGBT being snowflakes, not LGBT themselves

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587193]That's great. But you're throwing sources around that have 0 meaning to me. That didn't answer my question, only avoided it. [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] So at the expense of businesses "expressing their religious freedom" we should let businesses infringe on other peoples religious freedom It's not infringing on their religious freedom at all.[/QUOTE] Why allow freedom of speech if it allows people to say mean things?

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587215]he was talking about the people who are against LGBT being snowflakes, not LGBT themselves[/QUOTE] Okay? There's still no reason to start posting that fucking "special snowflake" shit in the post. He's made posts in the past screeching about "tumblrinas" or whatever the fuck people are calling them now. It's still a snipe at minority groups for no other reason than to be a bellend.

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50587220]Why allow freedom of speech if it allows people to say mean things?[/QUOTE] Freedom of speech was made to protect you from the government and from being denied access to a location for no real reason. It wasn't made so you could put up a sign that says "NO NIGGERS ALLOWED" on every street corner.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;50587235]Okay? There's still no reason to start posting that fucking "special snowflake" shit in the post. He's made posts in the past screeching about "tumblrinas" or whatever the fuck people are calling them now. It's still a snipe at minority groups for no other reason than to be a bellend.[/QUOTE] So special snowflakes homophobic's are a minority that we need to protect now? wat

[QUOTE=hexpunK;50587235]Okay? There's still no reason to start posting that fucking "special snowflake" shit in the post.[/QUOTE] They've been classified as generation snowflake. Unable to take opinions or facts that contradict their perspectives of reality. [QUOTE=hexpunK;50587265]By who? People who don't want to recognise them because it'd make their lives...no different at all? They just don't want to recognise them because they're assholes?[/QUOTE] A British think tank came to the conclusion a little while ago - this also isn't exactly related to the Proudtobe thing, but maaaaybe it is? [url]https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1254262/meet-generation-snowflake-the-hysterical-modern-kids-who-cant-cope-with-being-offended/[/url] Also I'm dumb and forgot how to post links with a different name - I swear I knew how do this in 09.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587252]So special snowflakes homophobic's are a minority that we need to protect now? wat[/QUOTE] [quote][B]The video[/B] meant well but they [B]had a few special snowflake attack helicopters[/B], so what?[/quote] (he's not talking about the homophobes dude) [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=BioWaster;50587257]They've been classified as generation snowflake. Unable to take opinions or facts that contradict their perspectives of reality.[/QUOTE] By who? People who don't want to recognise them because it'd make their lives...no different at all? They just don't want to recognise them because they're assholes?

Who cares if homosexuality is a disorder or not. What difference does it honestly make? So, I'm gay, does that mean I'm mentally ill? Skatehawk11?

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587278]If it's not a disorder what is it then? You can literally see the libertarianism peaking through like " connotation that the patient is “disordered."" and "Part of removing stigma is about choosing the right words." It's quite frankly the professional way of saying "We need to make these people feel normal because it's hurting their feelings". Transgenderism is [B]not normal[/B] and we're making it that way by accepting it so forcefully.[/QUOTE] "oh woe is me, a more accepting america. oh no!" - katehawk11, probably Seriously I don't need to say anything else. You can't say you have nothing against transgender people if this is how you're going to reply when proven you're wrong about the subject. If you want to add me or PM me and i can take the time to educate you about transgender issues and the problems we face on a daily basis, then sure. But there's nothing more I can say otherwise. You've absolutely proven you know nothing about transgender people.