#ProudToBe [YouTube Spotlight/Huge Shitstorm in the Comments] - General

What would happen if someone went to [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1485279"]Crossdressing & Transgender & Allies Discussion[/URL] and said "Transgenderism is not normal and we're making it that way by accepting it so forcefully." Now that you said that I permanently can't take anything you say seriously I thought you were more mature and informed than that but apparently not. I really have no interest in THAT kind of argument tbh.

[QUOTE]The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion...[/QUOTE] Now you're patently false.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587348]It matters because we should be telling the truth. Not lies to make them feel better. We are making amendments to our daily life. When society starts badgering you because you didn't ask what gender they identify as and calling them "he" or "she" or having special laws like the bathroom law that will open safety risk (let's not argue about that again.). Soon it will get so ridiculous that transgenders will get their own road to drive on because the other road is too offending to them. and yes, I respect you and am not going to call you profane names just for fun I will classify you as mentally ill because it's not normal human behavior. We have females/males for a reason and our bodies were designed not to like the same sex.[/QUOTE] OKAY! I may get where you're coming from, but bear with me here. You mean to say the people who are trans and declare themselves to be male/female, but in reality, scientifically, they are still the same sex they were before the surgery (if they got any) and until we figure a way to change DNA and chromosomes they are in fact still a snipped male or a female with someones cock n balls, pumped up on testosterone or oestrogen. Am I at least close or just fuck it?

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50587339]a[/QUOTE] I used to believe in the idea of business's being allowed to do what they wish as well, and it's a reasonable enough idea. When you think about it, it's like, its their business, they can fuck up how they want to but when you think about it, it's unrealistic and only causes more issues to enable racism. Imagine, if you will, a small town, in the country side, right? Not a very assuming town, it's far away from everything else that the locals need trade coming in from shops to survive. A single family owns the only pharmacies and drug stores in this town, and there's only like, 3 of them. Imagine if this family could deny business to all blacks. Now all of a sudden they can't get medication, which pretty much means that if, lets say, one of them have diabete's, because they've been denied entry, they pretty much may very well die. Obviously it's very hypothetical, but this is what is allowed to happen with this idea. also, I still have no idea how that says businesses should be allowed to "Express religious freedom" via denying access. [QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587348]and yes, I respect you and am not going to call you profane names just for fun I will classify you as mentally ill because it's not normal human behavior. We have females/males for a reason and our bodies were designed not to like the same sex.[/QUOTE] You can pretend to accept gays all you want but at the end of the day, you're just another homophobic pretending to be above discrimination. [QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587348] Why out of now you can't take me seriously? That's what my whole argument is about is that the LGBT community is not normal and we need to stop trying to make it normal because it is lies and biases.[/QUOTE] I make it a pretty big rule of mine to not directly argue about religion and LGBT in certain ways it never goes well on either sides, especially with religion

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587393]You can pretend to accept gays all you want but at the end of the day, you're just another homophobic pretending to be above discrimination.[/QUOTE] And you need to tone it down with the accusations. He can have a different opinion on homosexuality or whatever and still be a decent person - as long as he doesn't actively infringe on the rights of others.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587393]I used to believe in the idea of business's being allowed to do what they wish as well, and it's a reasonable enough idea. When you think about it, it's like, its their business, they can fuck up how they want to but when you think about it, it's unrealistic and only causes more issues to enable racism. Imagine, if you will, a small town, in the country side, right? Not a very assuming town, it's far away from everything else that the locals need trade coming in from shops to survive. A single family owns the only pharmacies and drug stores in this town, and there's only like, 3 of them. Imagine if this family could deny business to all blacks. Now all of a sudden they can't get medication, which pretty much means that if, lets say, one of them have diabete's, because they've been denied entry, they pretty much may very well die. Obviously it's very hypothetical, but this is what is allowed to happen with this idea. also, I still have no idea how that says businesses should be allowed to "Express religious freedom" via denying access. I'd understand this entirely if it were Jews denying a a Nazi business, but permitting a Nazi to deny access to Jew's is backwards You can pretend to accept gays all you want but at the end of the day, you're just another homophobic pretending to be above discrimination.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions#Fighting_words_and_offensive_speech[/url]

[QUOTE=BioWaster;50587416]And you need to tone it down with the accusations. He can have a different opinion on homosexuality or whatever and still be a decent person - as long as he doesn't actively infringe on the rights of others.[/QUOTE] I'm sure you can understand where my bias would come from, being gay myself the whole "mental illness" and "You're wrong because of these religious reasons" is where the topic becomes way too hot to handle, so yeah maybe I was just being a bit unfair, but that's why I avoid those arguments to prevent personal bias. [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=dimitrik129;50587425][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions#Fighting_words_and_offensive_speech[/url][/QUOTE] I'm OK with the WBC holding up signs that say "God hates fags" because that's merely harmless protesting. More power to them TBH. So long as they aren't actively saying they want to physically harm any one (hate speech) they can yell about gays "going to hell" all they want. I'm not OK with business's denying rights to gays because that's dangerous territory and gives people real, actual power over minorities and allows them to actually physically do something about it. It becomes too far at that point. They're still allowed to be homophobic/racist, they're merely not allowed to lets say, call the cops on a black and have them removed for being black.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587432]I'm sure you can understand where my bias would come from, being gay myself the whole "mental illness" and "You're wrong because of these religious reasons" is where the topic becomes way too hot to handle, so yeah maybe I was just being a bit unfair[/QUOTE] Man people are going to hate you and me for everything and anything in this fucked up world. I want everyone who is decent to get together and hug it the fuck out, but we can't do that if we don't accept peoples faults - even if they don't accept yours. Okay that sounded fucked up there - being gay isn't a fault, you know what I mean. fuk

[QUOTE=J!NX;50587432]I'm sure you can understand where my bias would come from, being gay myself the whole "mental illness" and "You're wrong because of these religious reasons" is where the topic becomes way too hot to handle, so yeah maybe I was just being a bit unfair [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] I'm OK with the WBC holding up signs that say "God hates fags" because that's merely harmless protesting. More power to them TBH. So long as they aren't actively saying they want to physically harm any one (hate speech) they can yell about gays "going to hell" all they want. I'm not OK with business's denying rights to gays because that's dangerous territory and gives people real, actual power over minorities and allows them to actually physically do something about it. It becomes too far at that point. They're still allowed to be racist, they're merely not allowed to lets say, call the cops on a black and have them removed for being black.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The answer is that you can refuse to serve someone even if they’re in a protected group, but the refusal can’t be arbitrary and you can’t apply it to just one group of people. To avoid being arbitrary, there must be a reason for refusing service and you must be consistent. There could be a dress code to maintain a sense of decorum, or fire code restrictions on how many people can be in your place of business at one time, or a policy related to the health and safety of your customers and employees. But you can’t just randomly refuse service to someone because you don’t like the way they look or dress. Second, you must apply your policy to everyone. For example, you can’t turn away a black person who’s not wearing a tie and then let in a tieless white man. You also can’t have a policy that sounds like it applies to everyone but really just excludes one particular group of people. So, for example, a policy against wearing headscarves in a restaurant would probably be discriminatory against Muslims.[/QUOTE] The public will protest if they believe if rights are truly being taken. Action will be taken from there. And discrimination goes both way - a cisgendered male can feel discriminated against for sharing a bathroom with an opposite gender when the bathroom is clearly for males. Vice versa. That is why it is a case by case basis and shouldn't be decided by the government, but the business owner.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587157]Look at the people who give their children both "boy" and "girl" toys so they don't think there is a difference between them. They grow up and will most of the time still have interest of those of their sex. An example of this is the push for more women to be into the IT field. They have programs and classes dedicated for women in IT but they are still the minority because their brains are not interested in that subject while the males brains are more interested.[/QUOTE] Nice job proving you have no idea what you're talking about with this post. If there's programs and classes for IT now, that means that we don't see women in those fields from schools for a period of years because, guess what, they're still in school. And regardless, there's a push for more women because those fields largely have unbalanced populations, why? Because in the 80's when most of those men were boys, it wasn't okay for women to be in that field, so they weren't. Hence why you see a gap. It isn't based on sex as you're claiming it is. You're literally the type of person who seems to believe a woman is more at home in the home, than in the work place as far as I can tell. [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587487]I'm not a homophobic. I don't see a gay person and instantly go off on them. I disagree with that choice. Disagreeing with it does not make me homophobic. Your defense strategy is to shut down anyone who disagrees with you and then call them x-phobic, ignorant, idiotic, old fashioned, etc. Also, I was never arguing about religion and LGBT rights. I am non religious myself. I am saying an example of a business owner being religious and having the right to deny service. It does not have to be religious but it is the most common example.[/QUOTE] With their choice? Do you think they wake up and choose to like what they like? You do not choose to be straight, so why do you assume I choose to be bisexual? You're dismissive to an offensive level because you have no intention of reading what I'm saying and internalizing it, instead you're just ignoring it whole sale, and repeating yourself. Should they have the right to deny blacks from their shops? What if they didn't want whites in their shop? That's their choice, are you for that? What if you lived in a town of primarily black people, and couldn't go to the main stores? Is that okay? Yeah, it has to be under your reasoning.

"Their brains are not interested in that subject" Maybe because social stigma and decades of pressure to remain in the home has driven them towards more stereotypical "woman" behaviors and activities than male-dominated career fields? What a terrible argument lol.

Not sure when you say it was not okay for women to pursue IT during the 80's During that time, nearly 40% of IT jobs were held by women. [QUOTE][IMG]http://puu.sh/pEPhA/03f2e483f8.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] [url]http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-women-stopped-coding[/url] There are a plethora of factors that lead to the demise, one of them being toys marketed to boys specifically.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587487]I'm not a homophobic. I don't see a gay person and instantly go off on them. I disagree with that choice. Disagreeing with it does not make me homophobic. Your defense strategy is to shut down anyone who disagrees with you and then call them x-phobic, ignorant, idiotic, old fashioned, etc. Also, I was never arguing about religion and LGBT rights. I am non religious myself. I am saying an example of a business owner being religious and having the right to deny service. It does not have to be religious but it is the most common example.[/QUOTE] Choice? So gay people chose to be the way they were now and knowingly chose to be discriminated against? I replied to literally 10 pages of your posts fairly. My defence strategy is way different than that. I only started saying that when you started saying really, in all honesty, hostile arguments that outright are ignoring of decades of progress we have made because you thought it was "too liberal to be true" No matter how you paint it these are arguments homophobics hse to dismiss homosexuality entirely. Homophobic or not, you're grouping homosexuality with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587661]I'm in multiple IT classes and there was absolutely no females my semester. In the schools there is still a unequal ratio. It is not society and media tainting the minds of children. There is a reason why there is more caretaking and food service jobs is more popular among women than a car mechanic or a hard laborer. It's because the female brain is more interested in those type of jobs than the other spectrum. If that was the case the majority of females would be angry with their jobs they don't want to do but society made them, that's not the case. You liberals act like anything that is not equal is due to rotten society and bigotry/sexism/racism etc. That's not the case, it's natural human behavior.[/QUOTE] You know, if you'd drop the "YOU LIBERALS" this and that bullshit, maybe you'd be open to listening, and this would be a real conversation? No? You don't want to drop rhetoric and bullshit for a discussion? You just want to keep repeating yourself as you have all fucking thread, adding nothing, learning nothing, arguing nothing new, repeating tired old arguments many of us have dealt with for years and have learned how to deal with very well? People like myself and Jinx are just tired of being patient and reasonable with the likes of people like yourself because all the good graces we extend you, and you spit in our fucking faces and expect to be told "Yeah you're right". No, get a grip on reality

[QUOTE=BioWaster;50587416]And you need to tone it down with the accusations. He can have a different opinion on homosexuality or whatever and still be a decent person - as long as he doesn't actively infringe on the rights of others.[/QUOTE] having a blatantly wrong "opinion" of LGBT people is the reason discrimination against them is so normalized. He's free to think whatever he wants, of course, and even to disagree with us. he's even free to not accept facts as facts and instead keep pushing the "no trans people are TECHNICALLY their sex so they can't use this bathroom!!!". But when he starts spreading that mindset to other people, convincing people that he's right through sheer ignorance and stubbornness, then it goes from opinion to straight up harmful rhetoric that can serve nothing but to reinforce bad stereotypes and continued hatred.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50587190]If a business owner wants to not allow certain people into their business they should have every right to do it. Most of the time it is for religious reasons. When you're forcefully making them accept everyone then you are infringing upon their religious freedom. There is a good solution but the owner of the business should have the say, not society.[/QUOTE] Except not really? that's segregation and racisim/xenophobia/hate, things that don't belong in the modern world at all.

You've literally derided all LGBT people as having a mental illness You repeat "YOU LIBERALS" like a catch phrase so it's impossible to believe you don't have a prejudice

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50588205]You're telling me to listen and learn and that I keep repeating myself. Have you looked back on any of your posts? You have personally attacked me multiple times and not once have I called you anything. I don't have a hostile view on liberals, I simply disagree. You know a debate is not a one way stream. You say i'm ignorant and keep repeating the same old thing you have been doing exactly the same. You think that you are 100% right and everything I say is bigoted racist wife beater logic. I will admit I have made a few mistakes here and there (this is my first hardcore debate online) and I am not perfect and nor are you. You can't expect everyone to conform to your opinion and that's what you want me to do.[/QUOTE] the point is, people are saying, why are you being a dick towards minorities other than a slippery slope theory that has no actual real harm other than people abusing (and promptly arrested) the laws.

The majority of the LGBT community just wants to be normal not special snowflakes. You're just uninformed if that's what you think

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50588302]It's true, it is a mental illness. I use "you liberals" not as a derogatory meaning but the liberal ideas for society. We need to stop all this political correctness. I don't take offence when you call me conservative or a "gun-loving" republican, why do you?[/QUOTE] Do you take offense when I call you a stubborn bigot? The very fact that you've argued about this fact for over two days while ignoring evidence to the contrary of your beliefs indicates that you either have a personal bias in regards to the subject matter or are incredibly stubborn. Its already apparent you won't change the views of the people in the thread. At this point one has to wonder what apparent motivation you have for continuing this argument.

Skitzofrenia is a mental illness. Being bisexual is not. Being gay is not. It was common in the ancient world do you're just historically and factually wrong on all counts.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50588205]You're telling me to listen and learn and that I keep repeating myself. Have you looked back on any of your posts? You have personally attacked me multiple times and not once have I called you anything. I don't have a hostile view on liberals, I simply disagree. You know a debate is not a one way stream. You say i'm ignorant and keep repeating the same old thing you have been doing exactly the same. You think that you are 100% right and everything I say is bigoted racist wife beater logic. I will admit I have made a few mistakes here and there (this is my first hardcore debate online) and I am not perfect and nor are you. You can't expect everyone to conform to your opinion and that's what you want me to do.[/QUOTE] but your oppinion is not just wrong ethically, but its also harmful. Im proud to be pansexual but i cannot for the fucking life of me ever let anyone around where i live that i am one. Not that i want to tell, but the amount of offensive, derogatory (im not talking about calling someone a faggot, its how its used that its more offensive), and plain hateful comments i hear about all the time. Plenty of people think the lgbt community wants exclusive rights, but how in the fuck is being able to marry your loved one, going to a bathroom where you aren't raped or beaten, not called basically a freak of humanity, or having the health care needs to support you a exclusive right?

-automerge-

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50588373]You literally can not get a single post out without calling me in someway bigoted can you? "You're [place word for bigots here] if you think that" When your sexuality is "not normal" / conventional then why do you expected to be normal. The human body was never meant for that type of sexuality and people are uncomfortable with it because it's not normal and I think that's ok. When the transgender community is requesting to use their choice of room their mind think they are is unreasonable. When you have to see gay pride everywhere you look is outright annoying. You're always comparing this topic to racism but this is the key difference. People are naturally born with color and it's 100% normal. On the other hand LGBT is not natural, logical or normal because we were not designed to function that way so when people want to function that way it's a mental disorder.[B] What would be the biological reason to have reproductive organs/chromosomes if you're not programed to use them properly? [/B] I ask you to answer that question first.[/QUOTE] why is it not normal, it occurs in animal behavior all the time, and it was also normal in human culture in the past. some people are born that way and its a non issue. There is no biological reason to have it, same with why do we have wisdom teeth if they just cause severe pain and infection, the appendix is a useless organ that can rupture and kill a person with toxic shock, there is tons more. who knows, maybe it was to keep human population in check.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50588373]You literally can not get a single post out without calling me in someway bigoted can you? "You're [place word for bigots here] if you think that"[/quote] So far the evidence is leaning towards you having some form of personal bias in regards to this topic. Whether it be stubbornness or bigotry I don't know. [quote] When your sexuality is "not normal" / conventional then why do you expected to be normal. The human body was never meant for that type of sexuality and people are uncomfortable with it because it's not normal and I think that's ok. [/quote] I want you to define normal, then apply it to the human race as a whole, and afterwards I want you to tell me what you came up with. See how that works for you. [quote] When the transgender community is requesting to use their choice of room their mind think they are is unreasonable. When you have to see gay pride everywhere you look is outright annoying.[/quote] You see gay pride parades are on the same level as the various heterosexual displays of human sexuality. I fail to see how you can justify this argument. For example [t]http://gypsyjaunt.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/mardi-gras-ladies.jpeg[/t] I'd say that mardi gras is just as flamboyant as any gay pride event I've ever seen. [quote] You're always comparing this topic to racism but this is the key difference. People are naturally born with color and it's 100% normal. On the other hand LGBT is not natural, logical or normal because we were not designed to function that way so when people want to function that way it's a mental disorder.[/quote] We were not designed to function in any way. If we let our base biology define us as beings then we wouldn't be a society. [quote] [B] What would be the biological reason to have reproductive organs/chromosomes if you're not programed to use them properly? [/B] I ask you to answer that question first.[/QUOTE] There are a few things wrong with this statement. A. Again, letting our simplest of biological functions define us as beings is asinine. B. How does one use chromosomes??????

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50588373][B] What would be the biological reason to have reproductive organs/chromosomes if you're not programed to use them properly? [/B] I ask you to answer that question first.[/QUOTE] would you mind telling me what the appendix is doing still hanging about in our bodies please my friend?

Or what about how most of our DNA doesn't serve any purpose for that matter.

A person's sole purpose is not survival anymore. I don't know why we have to rely on antiquated ideals of "reproductive usefulness" to decide whether or not someone can be afforded basic fair treatment.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50588474]Where are you geting that from? Noncoding DNA provides purpose that we are unclear of. It's not useless or not needed.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10988624/90-per-cent-of-human-DNA-does-nothing-at-all-scientists-find.html[/URL] [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jul/24/10-percent-human-dna-functional-genome-biological-baggage[/URL] You're skipping arguments that you can't answer. You've basically conceded your argument at this point.

You're skipping arguments you can't answer. You've basically conceded