#ProudToBe [YouTube Spotlight/Huge Shitstorm in the Comments] - General

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570476]That's not the point!!!! I am not saying transgender people are doing it. It's the people who are not transgender but are using the loop hole to do those actions.[/QUOTE] Even if they are, Do you think this "loophole" stops them from being prosecuted? Or do you think it makes people more eager to rape? If a pedo or a rapist wants to hurt somebody, a silly little thing like a Law is not going to get in their way. By restricting it because of this Rapist Boogeyman who's abusing this "loophole" in the law, you're making life 1000x harder for people who did nothing wrong but try to use the bathroom without being assaulted. which is also against the law. So would you rather have this tiny "loophole"(again, it isn't because they're going to be prosecuted all the same) or hurt the lives of hundreds of thousands?

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570515]That is the exact opposite of what i'm arguing. I will type my argument as clearly as I can. [B]Due to the transgender community requesting to have equality in the sex separated rooms such as bathrooms, locker rooms, showers, changing rooms, etc. It opens up a loop hole of non-transgender sexual predators claiming they are transgender when entering the separated room allowing them to creep on others. It is not the transgender peoples fault, but the loop hole the law they request has in it.[/B][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570460]Some people are sexual criminals and abuse people in bathrooms, so we should continue to shit on an unrelated minority just 'cause[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570515]That is the exact opposite of what i'm arguing. I will type my argument as clearly as I can. [B]Due to the transgender community requesting to have equality in the sex separated rooms such as bathrooms, locker rooms, showers, changing rooms, etc. It opens up a loop hole of non-transgender sexual predators claiming they are transgender when entering the separated room allowing them to creep on others. It is not the transgender peoples fault, but the loop hole the law they request has in it.[/B][/QUOTE] [B]Your own sources have consistently pointed out that regardless of this alleged loophole people doing the exact things you're ostensibly concerned about get arrested for the exact things you'd expect and you still have yet to answer the question of how this loophole would make these things any less illegal or easier to perpetuate[/B]

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570523]I want to stress that that majority of these crimes are nonviolent. I am talking more of a creep taking pictures/video or geting the thrill off of being in the women's locker room. It does not have to be full blown sexual assault to make it concerning.[/QUOTE] We should put in laws to keep lesbians out of women's locker rooms. They might take sneaky pictures of other women's bodies, or get aroused seeing other women naked.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;50570141]This was my main point. Depression by nature does not cause any happiness, and I'd argue the same goes for personality disorders. They cause a great deal of pain and anguish internally. The only reason homosexuality causes pain and anguish is from the outside, from other people being horrible. How are they comparable at all? How is being your true self and being happy a disorder?[/QUOTE] Well, it does negatively impact people in a few ways. Being a minority, finding your ideal mate becomes significantly more difficult as you'll most likely simply know less people of your own orientation. Of course it doesn't help that you don't necessarily know who is and who is not, either. Straight people can more or less just assume that anyone they are interested in are also straight, whereas for homosexuals others of their orientation are the exception rather than the norm. It's not exactly conducive to reproduction and furthering your genes either. (Although in our modern society where there is arguably an overpopulation of humans, this is maybe not a big problem anymore.) And it's also a slight inconvenience sexually, as our bodies aren't naturally made to be sexually compatible with others of our own gender. As for it being a disorder, it is a disorder because it's essentially a mental defect. Biologically humans and most animals are wired to find the opposite sex attractive because that's how we reproduce and further our genes. From a biological standpoint the entire reason you're attacted to some people and not to others is essentially the process of your brain trying to figure out who has the best possible genes for you. In the case of homosexuals however, that entire attraction process has basically been set to find people who you physically cannot procreate with attractive. It's sort of like a glitch in your biological programming. Now, as I said before in this thread (and this paragraph is mostly a rehash of what I've said earlier), while it is effectively a defect, like almost all other mental disorders it is not truly curable. Because actually curing a disorder would require somehow rewiring or even reconstructing part of someones brain, and we're not even close to having the knowledge or technology necessary for doing that accurately. In some cases we have drugs or therapies which can help alleviate some problems caused by a disorder, but never truly cure them. And in the specific case of homosexuals, just living with it is clearly a much better solution than any therapy or drugs. Other than external issues like biggotry, the issues faced by homosexuals in today's society are not much more than minor inconveniences. And even biggotry is slowly becoming a minor or even non-issue in most first world nations. Meanwhile, no drugs or therapies that I know of do anything but try to repress your true sexuality, which is incredibly unhealthy and practically guaranteed to cause problems far greater than the triviality it's trying to solve.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570523]I want to stress that that majority of these crimes are nonviolent. I am talking more of a creep taking pictures/video or geting the thrill off of being in the women's locker room. It does not have to be full blown sexual assault to make it concerning.[/QUOTE] It may not be technically illegal to take pictures, Although it might be in some states that I'm not aware of, but if a very blatant creep uses this "loophole" you're so afraid of then he's going to be removed. Either by the people in the bathroom who will more than likely physically threaten him, or by a cop someone calls. You're worried about a non exsistant issue. There are laws in place to deal with people being creepy. Not to mention as i stated this isn't a "loophole". It's never going to hold up in court that "Creepy McCreeperson" who has never persuded hormone therapy, Been to a therapist or a doctor regarding trans issues, or any of the other myriad of things you need to do to start transitioning is ACTUALLY trans. Because he isn't.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570515]That is the exact opposite of what i'm arguing. I will type my argument as clearly as I can. [B]Due to the transgender community requesting to have equality in the sex separated rooms such as bathrooms, locker rooms, showers, changing rooms, etc. It opens up a loop hole of non-transgender sexual predators claiming they are transgender when entering the separated room allowing them to creep on others. It is not the transgender peoples fault, but the loop hole the law they request has in it.[/B][/QUOTE] But that loop hole is meaningless. Those people will still be convicted and tried as rapists and assaulters.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570542]Before the law you can be punished for just simply stepping a foot in the separated room. With this law you can not be punished if you ID as transgender even if you are lying. See how it makes it easier?[/QUOTE] But you can. You're going to get removed from a bathroom if you're taking pictures of people in the bathroom or changing room. At the very least until he can question you. You could be charged with tons of different things, the easiest one that comes to mind is a ticket for disturbing the peace.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570476]That's not the point!!!! I am not saying transgender people are doing it. It's the people who are not transgender but are using the loop hole to do those actions.[/QUOTE] Except one person out of the lucky 13 I linked used that excuse to do something bad, and he was caught exploiting that law. Allowing transgender people to use the bathroom they identify does not let sex offenders get away with crimes, it just gives them an excuse to cover it up (A poor one, might I add).

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570565]The law explicitly states you don't need to have any medical procedures done to be classes as transgender. You only need to identify as that, and you know how easy that is.[/QUOTE] But anyone who did this will be prosecuted for the other crimes they committed. Their crimes are still CRIMES.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570565]The law explicitly states you don't need to have any medical procedures done to be classes as transgender. You only need to identify as that, and you know how easy that is.[/QUOTE] You're right! I do know how easy it is to identify as transgender legally, which is what this law is asking of any trans person. Seeing as I am trans. What did I have to do to legally Identify? Hm.. Let's see.. I had to attend therapy for 2 and half years regarding gender dysphoria. I have to meet with an endocrinologist yearly to check my blood levels and re-up hormone treatments. I had to go through the process of getting my name and gender marker changed on my ID's. I had to go through an RLE(Real-life Experience) in therapy, which means I had to do x amount of months living as a female without hormones. There's plenty more, but there's also this fun fact: all of that and more are in my medical record and these things go to every doctor I see. If I were arrested all a cop or a jury would have to do to know that is look through my medical records. I'm telling you there are systems in place to prevent this boogeyman because I have lived through these sometimes demeaning systems. You need to understand that you are afraid of nothing. Myself and many other transpeople just want to use the bathroom in peace. We already get shafted every other way by most of the laws, can you let us use the bathroom without pretending there's a boogeyman out there abusing a non-issue loophole. Please?

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570565]The law explicitly states you don't need to have any medical procedures done to be classes as transgender. You only need to identify as that, and you know how easy that is.[/QUOTE] No, I don't really know, but either way, the point still stands that it would be treated as no different than if someone else of the same gender did these things. If it's illegal, it's still illegal. And I just want to point out that this argument is essentially equivalent to wanting to kick out homosexuals from their gendered bathrooms, since that's who they are attracted to. Personally I think the best solution, although there's not much of a problem in the first place, is to transition towards gender neutral bathroom stalls.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570542]Before the law you can be punished for just simply stepping a foot in the separated room. With this law you can not be punished if you ID as transgender even if you are lying. See how it makes it easier?[/QUOTE] No, I don't, because, like I and other have said before and you have so smoothly ignored, the exact same thing is going to happen regardless, they're going to be reported to either the staff or police and, if the handful of articles you linked actually relating to this scenario are any indication, be ejected from the premises I'm also pretty sure lying about being transgendered for the purposes of creeping that you're so concerned about would fall under perjury [QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570592]You know how easy it is to sneak in with a camera then leave without anyone noticing and being caught by the authorities. It is an easy crime to do and get away with and this law will only foster that.[/QUOTE] This strikes me as moving the goal posts. If they're going to be a sneaky enough cunt to take pictures unnoticed then the question of how this law or its absence makes that any easier or harder still stands, I think

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570397]This isn't about discrimination. It's about the safety of others. Read [URL="http://www.kgw.com/news/local/washington/seattle-man-in-womens-locker-room-cites-gender-rule/45248512"]this[/URL] and tell me it won't happen [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline] How is that bias? It literally is just solid facts of the events. If it is so bias please tell me where.[/QUOTE] that story was literally just a man walking into a women's changing room to start shit. had nothing to do with an actual trans person.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570618]- [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/12/politics/transgender-bathrooms-obama-administration/"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE] You're obtuse. The rate of harm will be the same rate of harm as seen by the general population. IF there is no statistical change, and there won't be, why should anything as backwards and segregationist as your ideas here go forth?

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570631]For me, it is not much of a big deal for bathrooms as it is for changing rooms and locker rooms where exposed bodies are common. [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline] Please read before you comment. I have had to explain this like 10 times now.[/QUOTE] its not a system loophole because they escorted the guy out for being a fuckwit. Believe it or not, humans have a thing called common sense to tell when someone is clearly trying to start shit. Its something you appear to lack apparently.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570631]For me, it is not much of a big deal for bathrooms as it is for changing rooms and locker rooms where exposed bodies are common.[/QUOTE] Maybe It's just because I'm fairly liberal, but I still don't really see that as a major issue. Sure if they're taking pictures or something, but I'm fairly sure that's illegal whether they're trans (or pretending to be trans) or not.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570648]Because a straight man can do the job without trying to hire a woman to do it. A man can't just walk into a women's bathroom, but with this law they technically could without consequence.[/QUOTE] Except they [I]can't[/I] because, as it has been repeatedly pointed out and showcased by the very articles [I]you linked[/I], [b]someone who's in the women's whatever room for creeping purposes is going to be noticed and reported to the staff or the authorities[/b]

Dude what part of your brain fails to grasp this A man, RIGHT THIS SECOND, could rape a boy in the boys washroom/changeroom. A woman, RIGHT THIS SECOND, could rape a girl in the girls washroom/changeroom. Nothing you can possibly do, will ever stop this. It's going to happen. No law you pass is going to stop a child molester in the first place. There is no loop hole that makes this legal. You keep acting like it would be legal to just do it, but there's no precedent that sets this.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570696]A man could claim he is transgender without any medical procedures and not commit any real crimes but just for the pleasure of seeing exposed women and then leave. Makes people uncomfortable. He technically has all legal right to be in there and since the only legal requirement is to say your trans.[/QUOTE] So, you say, to stop this We have to harm, and segregate all trans individuals in the nation To stop what is literally one of the most pathetic "What if's" i've ever heard, you'd go all out for segregation? And yes, IT IS FUCKING SEGREGATION. Dividing the populous of your nation up along arbitrary lines to make laws that only apply to said group is by definition, SEGREGATION. You are for segregation. [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE]I want to stress that that majority of these crimes are nonviolent. I am talking more of a creep taking pictures/video or geting the thrill off of being in the women's locker room. It does not have to be full blown sexual assault to make it concerning.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]No law you pass is going to stop a child molester in the first place. There is no loop hole that makes this legal. You keep acting like it would be legal to just do it, but there's no precedent that sets this.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570618]- [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/12/politics/transgender-bathrooms-obama-administration/"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE] you're really not going to change your mind, are you

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570696]A man could claim he is transgender without any medical procedures and not commit any real crimes but just for the pleasure of seeing exposed women and then leave. Makes people uncomfortable. He technically has all legal right to be in there and since the only legal requirement is to say your trans. [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline][/QUOTE] well since we are destroying rights, lets just take away guns because that most definitely can cause murder. Next lets allow police to throw us in jail without a hearing because its obvious we did the crime. bring back slavery, it was stupid to get rid of all that free labor if it benefits me. you are literally trampling a minority's rights because it may, just MAYBE prevent a crime in the future. its segregation and you are pretty terrible for thinking its a good thing.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570729]It's not just what if's I have had multiple sources (even a list of 50) events of my exact situation I am describing.[/QUOTE] your list was debunked. Your list is cherry picked horseshit.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570744]You will get caught 99% of the time if you physically assault someone in a public place The percentage of being caught taking a sneaky picture is extremely low. I know it is still illegal. Don't you see how crimes of this non-violent nature will be easy to pull off?[/QUOTE] I don't get it. Why does being transgender suddenly mean that they are allowed to take "sneaky pictures"? Please expiain.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570744]You will get caught 99% of the time if you physically assault someone in a public place The percentage of being caught taking a sneaky picture is extremely low. I know it is still illegal. Don't you see how crimes of this non-violent nature will be easy to pull off?[/QUOTE] And do you see how if they're so easy to pull off, the laws you want in place to stop them will only cause more harm to the rights of innocent people, and will do [B]ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING TO STOP THE HARM YOU ARE "APPARENTLY" SO CONCERNED ABOUT[/B]

Skatehawk, on the off chance you were to commit a crime with a gun, can I arrest you NOW just because there's a chance? You're basically demanding the same thing of trans people, saying there's a chance their status could be abused, so abuse the whole subclass. Just flip the logic onto yourself.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570744]You will get caught 99% of the time if you physically assault someone in a public place The percentage of being caught taking a sneaky picture is extremely low. I know it is still illegal. Don't you see how crimes of this non-violent nature will be easy to pull off?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Sitkero;50570681]Except they [I]can't[/I] because, as it has been repeatedly pointed out and showcased by the very articles [I]you linked[/I], [b]someone who's in the women's whatever room for creeping purposes is going to be noticed and reported to the staff or the authorities[/b][/QUOTE] Address this point, please It's additionally worth mentioning that regardless of legality an establishment can still reserve the right to eject anyone from the premises so just falsely claiming trans [I]still[/I] isn't going to be a loophole

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570773]You liberals sure like taking guns away, i'm surprised you said that in a bad light. What is more important: risking the majority or risking the minority? No one wins in this situation. Would you rather kill 100 people for 1 person or 1 person for 100?[/QUOTE] You want to take away the rights of people to use a bathroom. You're the only person here who wants to destroy rights. Factually, a world with no guns would be safer than a world with guns. why aren't you defending that majority against the minority? [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline] As soon as it goes into gun rights it's all "YOU LIBERALS" this and "YOU LIBERALS" that but this whole argument, I'm sorry to say, has been about the destruction of rights. You are the ONLY fucking person here ADAMANT on destroying the rights of a group of people.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570814] It is easy to not get caught with minor offences like taking a picture will a secret camera. Those offences will mostly go unnoticed. You can also do a legitimate change in the locker room with the bonus of exposed women and you're not breaking any laws there.[/QUOTE] So what does this have to do with transgender bathroom laws then?

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50570814]You liberals use the same logic on gun control: If we take away all guns there will be no mass shootings. Well on the downside now you left innocent people defenceless because you took away their guns. How is that any different?[/QUOTE] did you seriously just try to bend an argument about transgenderism into an argument about guns