[QUOTE=TH89;32394160]I don't agree with a lot of how the pro-choice argument is framed. I don't think a zygote is human but a baby that's days away from delivery certainly is, and there's no easy answers in between the two. It's a morally murky area--anywhere you draw the line is going to be arbitrary.
That said, I don't think it should be outlawed, both because it's way unfair to women and because it won't work--people will just have sketchy illegal abortions that can result in pretty horrible injuries or death.
Abortions should be legal but we should redouble our investment in sex education and contraceptives so that we can avoid it as much as possible.[/QUOTE]
Something around 80% of all abortions are carried out in the first trimester, when they look more like a sea-monkey.
What do people think about second trimester?
Third?
Viability?
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32402298]What do people think about second trimester?
Third?
Viability?[/QUOTE]
I personally find abortion acceptable up until the birth, but it's a non-issue because rarely ever does an abortion occur that late and when it does it's for health reasons.
yeah what megafan said
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32402325]I personally find abortion acceptable up until the birth, but it's a non-issue because rarely ever does an abortion occur that late and when it does it's for health reasons.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy#Reasons[/url]
Actually, health is only 2% of the time. It's primarily due to lack of education.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32402380][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy#Reasons[/url]
Actually, health is only 2% of the time. It's primarily due to lack of education.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't aware that suddenly 4 months is the marker for "late", but if the mother cannot accommodate a child, she shouldn't be forced to endure child birth, and put even more burden on the adoption system currently in place.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32402428]Wasn't aware that suddenly 4 months is the marker for "late", but if the mother cannot accommodate a child, she shouldn't be forced to endure child birth, and put even more burden on the adoption system currently in place.[/QUOTE]
It's in the second trimester. It's uncommon too.
[Img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/US_abortion_by_gestational_age_2004_histogram.svg[/Img]
Not at all a stretch to call it late.
I believe that more should be done to educate to prevent unwanted pregnancy, but ignorance isn't that great of an excuse.
Abortion is a good thing. Obviously with rules and regulations, but if someone do not want a child, they should not need to have one. People say it's "killing"... How can it be killing? If so, I kill millions of potential children everyday... Of course you shouldn't be able to do an abortion in late stages, but very early on, before the fetus has developed enough to call it "living".
[img]http://www.21stcenturypaladin.com/pics/2009/03/embryo.jpg[/img]
Not a Human, abort.
[img]http://www.wikinoticia.com/images/embarazo10/embarazo10.com.wp-content.uploads.image524.png[/img]
Human, have it and put up for adoption.
In my opinion, I see it like this...
If a woman is just being stupid and lazy, and decides "man, fuck this, I don't want to deal with a baby!" then I'd prefer she wouldn't be allowed an abortion.
Of course, if there are circumstances where the woman is just flat out not prepared for pregnancy, or some other circumstances out of their reach, then by all means, let them abort it if they so choose.
Like how someone on the first page compared it to killing a tree.
If someone chops down a tree because "eh, that tree was kinda annoying, just BEING there, so I chopped it down," then they're just being kinda stupid, to be honest.
But if the tree is an actual hazard, or an important building (such as a shelter) NEEDS to be built THERE, then let it be cut down.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;32403739]
If a woman is just being stupid and lazy, and decides "man, fuck this, I don't want to deal with a baby!" then I'd prefer she wouldn't be allowed an abortion.[/QUOTE]
this makes you sound like a bit of a asshole
there should be cases when abortions are covered by medical insurance, or hell even the country such as teen pregnancies/pregnancy from rape, lack of money to take care of a child, or some medical reason that makes the mother likely to die from delivery (but then they can just get a c-section) but if someone wants to get an abortion who is perfectly well off because they don't want to have another kid than that should fall under the same category as pre-existing conditions e.g. they're not covered by medical insurance
[editline]21st September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;32403739]In my opinion, I see it like this...
If a woman is just being stupid and lazy, and decides "man, fuck this, I don't want to deal with a baby!" then I'd prefer she wouldn't be allowed an abortion.
Of course, if there are circumstances where the woman is just flat out not prepared for pregnancy, or some other circumstances out of their reach, then by all means, let them abort it if they so choose.
Like how someone on the first page compared it to killing a tree.
If someone chops down a tree because "eh, that tree was kinda annoying, just BEING there, so I chopped it down," then they're just being kinda stupid, to be honest.
But if the tree is an actual hazard, or an important building (such as a shelter) NEEDS to be built THERE, then let it be cut down.[/QUOTE]
ok this is basically what i said
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;32402788][img]http://www.21stcenturypaladin.com/pics/2009/03/embryo.jpg[/img]
Not a Human, abort.
[img]http://www.wikinoticia.com/images/embarazo10/embarazo10.com.wp-content.uploads.image524.png[/img]
Human, have it and put up for adoption.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.new-baby-and-beyond.com/images/stages-of-fetal-development-babytop.jpg[/IMG]
Termination = okay.
[IMG]http://creationformula.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/newborn11.jpg[/IMG]
Termination = life sentence.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;32403739]In my opinion, I see it like this...
If a woman is just being stupid and lazy, and decides "man, fuck this, I don't want to deal with a baby!" then I'd prefer she wouldn't be allowed an abortion.[/QUOTE]
Taking care of a child is expensive, time consuming, and stressful, especially for a "stupid and lazy" person. I can personally see why they would consider it, despite me thinking that it's somewhat selfish.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;32403739]If a woman is just being stupid and lazy, and decides "man, fuck this, I don't want to deal with a baby!" then I'd prefer she wouldn't be allowed an abortion.[/QUOTE]
So 'stupid, lazy,' unfit mothers should be forced to have the child? I'm sure that will end well for the kid.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32404389][IMG]http://www.new-baby-and-beyond.com/images/stages-of-fetal-development-babytop.jpg[/IMG]
Termination = okay.
[IMG]http://creationformula.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/newborn11.jpg[/IMG]
Termination = life sentence.[/QUOTE]
The first picture is a baby that's just about to see the light of day, it's already illegal to kill it.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;32400716]I can't believe you took that seriously.[/QUOTE]
I can't believe you took what I said seriously.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32406212]The first picture is a baby that's just about to see the light of day, it's already illegal to kill it.[/QUOTE]
In France, yes. But a few countries, and 11 US states, say that it's fine.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy#Legal_restrictions[/url]
And according to Megafan and Lambeth, that's how it should be.
[QUOTE=Siminov;32393955]I agree with the second but not the first. There is always adoption, which in cases like this, is a win win.[/QUOTE]
To be honest adoption isnt even an option anymore. There are way too many kids in the system for adoption.
From an ethical standpoint I think almost every abortion is ethical. Abortions are given because the mother isn't ready for the kid. That means in most cases the child will be born into a bad environment and have a lower likelihood of a good life. Forcing a woman and her child into that life is cruel and makes you share the blame for the hardships the child encounters in his life. The woman is also responsible, and as much as giving irresponsible girls a free pass is bad, it is much worse to force a child into her care.
Adoption is a legitimate alternative for those kids, but the problem I see is that it is entirely possible for the mother to be on chemicals that could harm the baby during the pregnany. For instance, I had a friend in high school who was extremely nice, but had a ton of mental disorders from alcohol and cocaine in her mother when she was pregnant. She was medicated well enough and didn't have enough physical mutations to be noticeable without talking to her, but she still was pretty neurotic and she struggled making friends and changed schools every few years. Her brother was much worse off and had severe mental handicaps and physical deformities. They were adopted into a very loving, good family that supports them and gets them as much help as they can for their issues, but the are still affected by their mother being forced by her father to not have an abortion.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;32394377]It's murder.[/QUOTE]
It's like stomping on a flower. A fetus has absolutely no thoughts or feelings. Hell, it could even be considered a parasite since it causes a lot of problems for the woman with the fetus (such as cravings, mood swings, and vomiting to name a few). However I don't really like calling it a parasite.
I'm 16, me and my girlfriend got an abortion done last spring.....
Questions?
[QUOTE=bluesky;32417403]I'm 16, me and my girlfriend got an abortion done last spring.....
Questions?[/QUOTE]
Did you use condoms?
Abortion, okay if it doesn't have a brain.
I am completely for abortions.
I have had one.
It was the best thing to do. My life would have sucked and so would have it's life.
I have a friend who is currently pregnant and I think that she should have one. She's getting a lot of pain, abnormally so. She also gets terrible stomach upset and complains all the time.
And she's 18, didn't finish high school and hasn't got a job. She is also with some guy who is 27.
Who looks really scummy and smokes marijuana around her.
If you want abortion outlawed you should also want masterbation and safe sex outlawed
Just because it's genetic material doesn't make it alive in any way
[QUOTE=Lambeth;32404281]this makes you sound like a bit of a asshole[/QUOTE]
You're probably right. Unfortunately, that's how I think. Then I see this post...
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32405890]So 'stupid, lazy,' unfit mothers should be forced to have the child? I'm sure that will end well for the kid.[/QUOTE]
And it puts me on the fence, again.
No one said that these things were simple. :v:
I consider pregnancy the price you pay for not having safe sex and being too fucking stupid to learn to use a condom. Abortion takes it and turns it into a no consequence act. Make it legal but only for people above a set age simply because it gives teens a reason to practice safe sex.
[QUOTE=The one that is;32419885]I consider pregnancy the price you pay for not having safe sex and being too fucking stupid to learn to use a condom. Abortion takes it and turns it into a no consequence act. Make it legal but only for people above a set age simply because it gives teens a reason to practice safe sex.[/QUOTE]
Even when practicing safe sex pregnancy is a risk, and teenagers most likely aren't going to stop because of that which leads to kids being completely screwed over because of their parent's mistakes.
[QUOTE=redonkulous;32417118]From an ethical standpoint I think almost every abortion is ethical. Abortions are given because the mother isn't ready for the kid. That means in most cases the child will be born into a bad environment and have a lower likelihood of a good life. Forcing a woman and her child into that life is cruel and makes you share the blame for the hardships the child encounters in his life. The woman is also responsible, and as much as giving irresponsible girls a free pass is bad, it is much worse to force a child into her care.
Adoption is a legitimate alternative for those kids, but the problem I see is that it is entirely possible for the mother to be on chemicals that could harm the baby during the pregnany. For instance, I had a friend in high school who was extremely nice, but had a ton of mental disorders from alcohol and cocaine in her mother when she was pregnant. She was medicated well enough and didn't have enough physical mutations to be noticeable without talking to her, but she still was pretty neurotic and she struggled making friends and changed schools every few years. Her brother was much worse off and had severe mental handicaps and physical deformities. They were adopted into a very loving, good family that supports them and gets them as much help as they can for their issues, but the are still affected by their mother being forced by her father to not have an abortion.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's just me, but I think I'd prefer "hard life" to "no life".
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
