[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32420680]Maybe it's just me, but I think I'd prefer "hard life" to "no life".[/QUOTE]
Yet you would prefer good life over hard life.
[QUOTE=Hana-San;32420725]Yet you would prefer good life over hard life.[/QUOTE]
Obviously, what does that have to do with anything?
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32420680]Maybe it's just me, but I think I'd prefer "hard life" to "no life".[/QUOTE]
No fetus has that kind of nuanced preference.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32420764]Obviously, what does that have to do with anything?[/QUOTE]
The choice you have is:
1) Have the kid when it will have a hard life, it could get abused, starved, assaulted etc.
2) Have an abortion and have a child later on in life or when the circumstances are better.
3) Don't have the kid. Get scared. Never have children ever again.
It's not like once you have an abortion you can never have another child. Males make genetic material all the time. Sure a female has less opportunities but it's still possible.
Also as a fetus you have no consciousness yet. You wouldn't even know, let alone understand what the gravity of such a situation is.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32420956]No fetus has that kind of nuanced preference.[/QUOTE]
Regardless, protection from a "bad life" has no weight as an argument.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hana-San;32421028]1) Have the kid when it will have a hard life, it could get abused, starved, assaulted etc.
2) Have an abortion and have a child later on in life or when the circumstances are better.[/QUOTE]
The first child wouldn't get a good life out of the situation would it? Unless you believe in some form of supernatural transfer of consciousness, it either receives bad life or none, there is no good life option for it.
I never get a clear, straight answer from those of us who are so vehemently pro-choice.
Imagine you're driving and your brakes fail. You have to choose between flattening one orphan or ten orphans. Easy choice, right? You did the right thing if you flatten the one orphan. It was all-around the best thing to do. But can you feel bad about killing the orphan? Yes.
In the same way, I want to know at what point in pregnancy does an abortion go from being 100% morally OK to not so much. It doesn't matter the mother's situation. At what point do we start having to feel bad for the baby, if still supporting the abortion in general?
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;32421573]In the same way, I want to know at what point in pregnancy does an abortion go from being 100% morally OK to not so much. It doesn't matter the mother's situation. At what point do we start having to feel bad for the baby, if still supporting the abortion in general?[/QUOTE]
You can feel bad for the fetus/zygote/etc. if you wish, but at no point should the woman lose the right to abortion.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;32419574]Did you use condoms?[/QUOTE]
Nope, thought she was infertile.
It was pretty traumatizing for both of us.
Abortion is fine, the fetus isn't even sentient yet. And just because it can turn into a human is a dumb reason, why not save every sperm cell then. That has potential also.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;32421573]I never get a clear, straight answer from those of us who are so vehemently pro-choice.
Imagine you're driving and your brakes fail. You have to choose between flattening one orphan or ten orphans. Easy choice, right? You did the right thing if you flatten the one orphan. It was all-around the best thing to do. But can you feel bad about killing the orphan? Yes.
In the same way, I want to know at what point in pregnancy does an abortion go from being 100% morally OK to not so much. It doesn't matter the mother's situation. At what point do we start having to feel bad for the baby, if still supporting the abortion in general?[/QUOTE]
It's all about the mother's situation for me.
After mine I felt fine about it. It was only a few cells that they scooped out after injecting salt water into it's surrounding fluid.
But after a few months I started to doubt my own decision. It made me terribly sad. It was like a piece of me was missing.
But then I dumped my then boyfriend who would have been the father for cheating on me, making me conform to his wants and ignoring how I felt. And I realized that I would have been stupid to keep it.
Now I'm enjoying life. I know that one day I will have the opportunity to go through with it again. But on my own terms, when I feel ready to have one and not get post-natal depression.
baby shouldn't have to pay for mistakes of mother
[QUOTE=terrell;32424494]baby shouldn't have to pay for mistakes of mother[/QUOTE]
Baby's not a baby, it's a fetus.
And what if it was a rape victim? That's very harsh.
To everyone who says abortion is murder:
Why is murder wrong? I am dead serious. I want to know you reasoning for why murder is bad, and if you say it's because all life is sacred or some shit like that I'm going to slap you.
Everyone thinks Abortion is horrible, but the Government of a country should never be able to force a woman to have a child which is what they'd be doing if they didn't allow it, and it should always be the choice of the person having the kid and no one else's besides possibly the father in some cases.
I kinda dislike the fact other people having emotive driven opinions about things could possibly force a woman to have to raise a child they never wanted, that's such an awful thought. It's like people expect the lady to go 'DON'T USE A CONDOM HONEY, I'LL JUST HAVE AN ABORTION' like it's a nice thing they won't fret over. And they could just be scared of giving birth with is hugely understandable.
Pro-Abortion. It's not the greatest of things to do, but it is the mother's choice.
[QUOTE=The one that is;32419885]I consider pregnancy the price you pay for not having safe sex and being too fucking stupid to learn to use a condom. Abortion takes it and turns it into a no consequence act. Make it legal but only for people above a set age simply because it gives teens a reason to practice safe sex.[/QUOTE]
Let's take a look at this reasoning. Unsafe sex is bad, you say, so we should deter people from doing it. It is bad because it leads unplanned preganancies. Therefore, in order to deter people, we should make the consequences of unplanned pregnancies more severe, even though avoiding those consequnces is the whole reason you want to deter them. That's pretty flawed reasoning even before we consider the fact that you're saying we should force unfit parents to be parents, something which I'm sure will end wonderfully for the children involved.
If you got it in you and you don't want it. Kill the little fucker. Its you're choice. Better for cancer, [B]OH WAIT.[/B]
[QUOTE=sp00ks;32424758]To everyone who says abortion is murder:
Why is murder wrong? I am dead serious. I want to know you reasoning for why murder is bad, and if you say it's because all life is sacred or some shit like that I'm going to slap you.[/QUOTE]
Because people don't want to die and therefore we've developed the concept of the right to live.
Pretty basic.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;32424758]To everyone who says abortion is murder:
Why is murder wrong? I am dead serious. I want to know you reasoning for why murder is bad, and if you say it's because all life is sacred or some shit like that I'm going to slap you.[/QUOTE]
That rule "don't do to others what you wouldn't do to you" comes to play.
I'd rather not get killed, to be honest. And unless someone does to me what is as bad as murder, I have no reason to want to murder anyone.
I'm not sure how I feel on abortion. My boyfriend was going to be aborted because his mom was mean, broke, stupid, and lazy. I know I couldn't miss him if he was never here, but it makes me pretty upset to think about he may have not have been born. He's changed my life so much, and the lives of others, he's just a really amazing person. We've been together for three years now and I couldn't imagine life without him, which makes me totally against abortion.
But when I think about all the rape victims and totally unprepared women (girls) it makes me think that they should have a choice on whether or not they should have the baby, but yet again, what about all the lovers, siblings, and friends that would be lost because of that?
[QUOTE=Smokes;32434376]I'm not sure how I feel on abortion. My boyfriend was going to be aborted because his mom was mean, broke, stupid, and lazy. I know I couldn't miss him if he was never here, but it makes me pretty upset to think about he may have not have been born. He's changed my life so much, and the lives of others, he's just a really amazing person. We've been together for three years now and I couldn't imagine life without him, which makes me totally against abortion.
But when I think about all the rape victims and totally unprepared women (girls) it makes me think that they should have a choice on whether or not they should have the baby, but yet again, what about all the lovers, siblings, and friends that would be lost because of that?[/QUOTE]
They would never have existed and you would have gotten on fine/found someone else. The world keeps revolving after you die. It's not the end of the world.
My logic that if it can't survive without the mother's body, then it should be any mother's right to abort, after all, she could just kill herself.
[QUOTE=Resfan;32397585]Did the child make the mistake, or the parents.
Enough said.
Adoption, never abortion.[/QUOTE]
I was having sex a few months ago when the condom broke. We didn't realise this until afterwards. If we never realised it broke and simply threw the condom in the bin like any other, would it be terribly wrong to want an abortion six weeks later? My girlfriend would have had to repeat her final year of school, while paying medical expenses which she couldn't afford.
She took the emergency contraceptive pill in any case, so it never came to any of that. But surely you can understand how it's not a simple moral debate of people having unprotected sex and therefore being stupid and deserve to have a baby inflicted on them.
[editline]23rd September 2011[/editline]
Really, if you're labelling the whole thing a mistake then you can understand there are negative consequences. Why should the baby be born into a world where it must deal with these but the parents don't after it's put up for adoption. A zygote or even fetus is incapable of being disappointed at not realising its 'potential' much like the sperm you ejaculate in your sleep.
If the parent wants to have the abortion, she can. If the parent gets protested at by a bunch of people, she still can. It's their choice if they want to have it or not.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32413942]In France, yes. But a few countries, and 11 US states, say that it's fine.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy#Legal_restrictions[/url]
And according to Megafan and Lambeth, that's how it should be.[/QUOTE]
Oh well if those two say it's right then it must be okay to kill what is effectively a concious child
[QUOTE=Smokes;32434376]I'm not sure how I feel on abortion. My boyfriend was going to be aborted because his mom was mean, broke, stupid, and lazy. I know I couldn't miss him if he was never here, but it makes me pretty upset to think about he may have not have been born. He's changed my life so much, and the lives of others, he's just a really amazing person. We've been together for three years now and I couldn't imagine life without him, which makes me totally against abortion.
But when I think about all the rape victims and totally unprepared women (girls) it makes me think that they should have a choice on whether or not they should have the baby, but yet again, what about all the lovers, siblings, and friends that would be lost because of that?[/QUOTE]
Like other things in life, if the possiblity wasn't there, you wouldn't care as much.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32446020]Oh well if those two say it's right then it must be okay to kill what is effectively a concious child[/QUOTE]
I'm against that view point, I'm just explaining who I was addressing.
[QUOTE=Smokes;32434376]I'm not sure how I feel on abortion. My boyfriend was going to be aborted because his mom was mean, broke, stupid, and lazy. I know I couldn't miss him if he was never here, but it makes me pretty upset to think about he may have not have been born. He's changed my life so much, and the lives of others, he's just a really amazing person. We've been together for three years now and I couldn't imagine life without him, which makes me totally against abortion.
But when I think about all the rape victims and totally unprepared women (girls) it makes me think that they should have a choice on whether or not they should have the baby, but yet again, what about all the lovers, siblings, and friends that would be lost because of that?
[QUOTE=Hana-San;32438729]They would never have existed and you would have gotten on fine/found someone else. The world keeps revolving after you die. It's not the end of the world.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Furthermore, there's a chance you might have met someone even better if he wasn't alive today.
[QUOTE=Splarg!;32448702]Furthermore, there's a chance you might have met someone even better if he wasn't alive today.[/QUOTE]
Are we really going to start wishing their boyfriend was dead now?
Well if you are religious, you probably believe in the existence of a soul and/or heaven. So I ask.
Do Unborn fetuses have a soul?
And when killed do these souls go to heaven or hell?
Most likely I am going to get a " Yes they go heaven."
So we would be doing them a favor no?
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