Do you think America is doomed, or that it hit a bump in it's progression as a nation? - General

I would say it's a bump, well, it's more like a hill/mountain.

I hope it turns around, but I think it's doomed. It wasn't even founded on freedom in the first place, the real founder might of well been Abraham Lincoln or MLK.

Here is my thoughts on what needs to be done to turn America around. The very first thing we must focus on is Tax Reform and Election Reform to help us both Economically and Politically. Tax Reform is an obvious goal: Close tax loopholes, Buffet rule, make it simpler for the everyday person. I'm no professional so I can't put numbers on the table. Election Reform: The problem is legislation that we need to get this country rolling again isn't getting passed because the wrong men are in office. We should have a system that is more accepting to third parties and independents. I propose that we replace the broken FPTP (First Past The Post) system we have now, [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo"]explained in this video[/URL] with at least an Alternative Vote or better, [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE"]also explained in this video.[/URL] Along with this, the Electoral College [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k"]should be abolished [/URL]as it can be manipulated to become President with less than a quarter of the people voting for you and replace it with just a popular vote. An optional bit can be some control on campaign spending but this is when things get much more debatable so that will be for another day. With these Election Reforms it will be much easier for representatives who actually represent the people who voted for them, rather than the party they are in, to get elected into office which would allow more more competent legislation which would help a greater number of people. [B]One problem.[/B] The current parties, Republicans and Democrats, would never shoot themselves in the foot like this. To have fair election rules would severely jeopardize their hold on power. Also, what with the frequent SOPA/PIPA/CISPA bills they keep trying to push through where they make it quite clear they do not care what the majority of people think and the Debt Ceiling debate last year, where people couldn't even work at their jobs because of legislation Congress forgot to enact because one party alone had the strength to halt the entire democratic process and nearly drive this country into the ground.. Thus, the only way to enact these essential reforms and secure us against problems in the long term is for Independents who are willing to pass reforms to get into office. And so we have a Chicken and Egg problem where neither the Chicken nor the Egg exists. We cannot enact Election Reform to get Independents into office until we get Independents into office to enact reform. The best that could happen is that a Great Schism happens inside each of the major parties. There is no way, with the 60 million+ people each one controls, that each person has the exact same political beliefs. A conflct that would split the two parties into 4-8 smaller parties would be the best thing that could happen to us right now. [editline]8th May 2012[/editline] There are plenty other things that need to be done I'm sure but I find these to be the most essential, if a bit debatable, actions to take.

Well, the two party system has never been split into "4-8 parties", but party splits have occurred in the past. Lincoln's was elected to a second term as a member of the National Union Party.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;35888765]Well, the two party system has never been split into "4-8 parties", but party splits have occurred in the past. Lincoln's was elected to a second term as a member of the National Union Party.[/QUOTE] First time for everything. Also, that wasn't so much a split as it was a name change.

Every country, people or culture at one time or another faces a serious problem. If the country, people or culture can overcome this problem and grow from it along with learning lessons from it then, it will be stronger for it. So I wouldn't say that the USA is "Fucked" but if it doesn't tackle its economic and social problems then if will be the way of the other great countries and empires of the past.... Killed by its own ignorance.

I think of it like this, This nation has endured the cold war, world war one and two, and we didn't all die. America didn't "falter and fail" What makes you think something as small as this would?

You think America has serious problems right now?! [url]http://facepunch.com/threads/1182238?p=35858792#post35858792[/url]

[QUOTE=BigOwl;35894214]You think America has serious problems right now?! [url]http://facepunch.com/threads/1182238?p=35858792#post35858792[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah there fucked... royally!

It seems like it's only hit a bump... A very large, very frustrating bump. I think the U.S. is not yet doomed but it has certainly fallen from grace. The biggest problem seems to be within the government itself. I apologize for stating the obvious but it's just become clear that the politicians no longer care about improving the lives of the citizens, they just wish to line their own pockets or push their own ideals without regard for the consequences. It would also probably help if someone reminded the politicians of what "the separation of church and state" is supposed to mean.

America has a two-pronged problem. First, the government has given power not to the majority, but to corporations. As evidenced by recent protests, these corporations now have a large sway in domestic control too. The second problem is that Americans are lazy and allow this to happen. If we went to the polls based on an informed decision, we we could fix this mess. We need to vote for candidates who actually support the majority. Americans elect the same representatives each year, because voters for congressional elections are so uninformed. So candidates with coroporate, not American interests take power (see Lamar Smith.)

I don't understand what people mean by "America has hit a bump!" or "America has fallen from grace!". What is different now than, say, 1990 other than a routine economic recession? Or how about 1945? 1900? What's so different now that tells of some sort of "bump" in progression?

I am and always will be of the opinion that the fall of the Soviet Union was the worst thing that's happened to the United States, simply because we fell into a dominant position and found ourselves without serious competition. Mind you, this was before China assumed the position that the Soviet Union held during the Cold War, but it's simply not the same. Without true competition, stagnation occurs, and that's what we're seeing. Think about it: what happened to NASA after the fall of the USSR? What happened to our manufacturing base? Who did we start importing from?

Well, if everything goes as usual in the cycle of economics here, we're either going to become a third world nation, or see a revolution at this point. I mean with the corruption in Congress, the NDAA and Patriot Act, the current state of the economy, I kinda hope for a revolution unless Congress and the President get their **** together.

[QUOTE=Killer99531;36079731]Well, if everything goes as usual in the cycle of economics here, we're either going to become a third world nation, or see a revolution at this point. I mean with the corruption in Congress, the NDAA and Patriot Act, the current state of the economy, I kinda hope for a revolution unless Congress and the President get their **** together.[/QUOTE] What the hell are you talking about? How could the U.S. be a third world nation? It is the very definition of a first world nation. And what does the NDAA have to do with anything? What would a revolution solve? Why did you censor the word "shit"?

There is nothing about the US's government that makes sense. Keeping a firm stance on prohibition while people are getting butchered in Mexico, Obama deploying troops to Afghanistan while it only costs 30 billion dollars to set up the necessary agricultural programs to feed all of Africa, spending 800 billion dollars a year on military (and rising) while we have a multi-trillion dollar deficit. I really have no idea how these kind of things are going on when most of our congressmen are Harvard educated. How do you make sense of it?

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36084310]What the hell are you talking about? How could the U.S. be a third world nation? It is the very definition of a first world nation. And what does the NDAA have to do with anything? What would a revolution solve? Why did you censor the word "shit"?[/QUOTE] The NDAA and the Patriot Act are big shirts on the Constitution.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36084310]How could the U.S. be a third world nation?[/QUOTE] Well China could cash in their US bonds, then we'd be fucked.

[QUOTE=Kman1;36084446]The NDAA and the Patriot Act are big shirts on the Constitution.[/QUOTE] They should get shirts in smaller sizes then

[QUOTE=Fenderson;36084468]Well China could cash in their US bonds, then we'd be fucked.[/QUOTE] Well they only own about a trillion of our debt. We could just borrow a bunch more from Japan and Europe and pay them off.

[IMG]http://politicalcompass.org/charts/us2012.php[/IMG] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating." - Megafan))[/highlight]

Nah, It's just been some bad years. Assuming something is doomed when bad events take place (e.g. Thinking you'll never recover from the 60 you got last semester in Algebra, your Highschool and Collage is ruined, you were a failed abortion, dad hardly told me "I love you") is one way we just screw ourselves over. Technically, America could be doomed if we were thinking it was doomed right now.

I don't think America is going to run into a problem- the entire world will. My personal belief is that World War 3 will happen in our lifetimes, but I'll try and explain my radical opinion. America is looking at a 15.8 trillion dollar debt that generations after generations are going to have to pay for, a war that we can't pull the plug on yet it drains our economy dry, and our industries are being outsourced one by one. Our own Federal Reserve and International Monetary fund are not excited about our economy's outlook. The IMF predicts that China will surpass America by 2016 (I will address this point in the next paragraph). The Federal Reserve is losing trillions of dollars mysteriously and these cases aren't being questioned at all. To give you my freshness on this perspective, last weekend the severe thunderstorms experienced because of the heat wave knocked out power for nearly 2 million people, and exposed a problem in America's electrical grid that will cost them 600+ billion dollars in the future. This is money America literally doesn't have, since our currency is fiat in the first place. Globalization will play a key factor in the upcoming revolution. Since our industry for the most part is outsourced and won't come back unless Americans accept terrible conditions, we will destroy these jobs in other countries and send tensions high. China may seem like a superpower now, but they are only profiting from the unfair labor manufacturing that supplies the United States and Europe with nearly every product. Once our buying power dies, the Chinese economy will plummet (hopefully). They also have a government who doesn't play by the rules, and the Chinese people can't be treated fairly unless action is taken. For an idea at how powerful China is right now, the government literally purchased the AMC Movie company. Another American economic player down the drain. As for the buying power of Europe, it is already collapsing. The euro-zone crisis has swallowed the most of Europe, and it has pitted Germany flourishing economy against the bankrupt economies of Spain (125 billion euro bailout), Greece (45 billion euro bailout), Ireland, Portugal, etc. Loaning money on this scale is a recipe for disaster. Also let's think about the Middle East for a second. Could there be a chance that the violence escalates? The new president (Romney's SuperPACs have raised over 100 million while Obama's have scraped the surface of 71 million in June.) already stated that he would go to war with Iran. Not only could Iran start selling oil to Russia and China instead of us, but they could also make this war much hotter. Israel could get involved, and then we are staring down the barrel of another nuclear scare. The politicians don't care about us anymore because they have lobbyists sucking their chodes all day long so the rules can be permanently bent in exchange for a luxurious and immoral lifestyle. Goldman Sachs has a grip on the world by the balls, and they are allowed to give the power to whoever they want because they are private. Even the advent of anonymous SuperPACS is a serious violation of what we call democracy. SuperPACS, especially in Romney's case who said he wouldn't be giving out any names, allow the donator and the amount donated is allowed to remain completely hidden until the elections are over in November. The transition that we, humans of the year 2012, are facing is this: Money has infiltrated every aspect of our lives and has even become our happiness. We are completely unconnected to nature in the way that we shouldn't be, and unconnected with ourselves as well. We can't sympathize with the suffering of people outside of our country because we are only concerned with what is happening in the now. We have a long intellectual journey ahead as a human race. This event could possibly unite the whole world if we use technology wisely. Want to know something that may just blow your mind? A few days ago, a bank called LIBOR which manages international interests rates and claims ownership to $350 TRILLION in trades, let it slip that the Barclays Bank was gaming the interest rates for their profit. Not only was it the Barclays, but others had to be involved in order for such a massive scale of corruption to happen. Even JPMorgan Chase lost billions in a bad bet on a hedge fund, and the numbers are still rolling upwards. Why aren't we doing anything about it? I think as long as humans get to watch their tv, enjoy their a/c, play on their computer, fap all day long, they will always be complacent with a relatively posh lifestyle. America will indeed become more like a police state, and we will unconsciously give the president far too much power. America has not legally declared war since World War 2, so that should show you what kind of power the president has nowadays. Obama recently passed the DREAM act without the approval of Congress. Now is the part where I address the "bump in the road" comment. I think America is still, and will remain, the greatest country in the world even if our people don't resemble that. We were founded on the idea that every man, woman, and child deserve complete freedom and the right to happiness. At the time, this was an idea never tested before and we fought tooth and nail for our right to be American. Like all humans, we can be lazy but we can also be valiant. When pushed into a corner, we really show our true colors. Take for example 9/11, which united and lit the entire country with an unquenchable thirst for vengeance that may have thrown us too far. Well I guess those are most of my thoughts on this thread... I hope I didn't make anyone angry.

We've hit a bump as a nation, and we don't seem to want to leave this bump. What ever happened to America's "Go gettum'" attitude? What happened to us banding together not as groups, but as brothers and sisters? Maybe it's because we've lowered our standards, we've become weak, passive, idiotic. We need something to get us back on our feet. Any volunteer Hitlers?

[QUOTE=Moustacheman;36716497]We've hit a bump as a nation, and we don't seem to want to leave this bump. What ever happened to America's "Go gettum'" attitude? What happened to us banding together not as groups, but as brothers and sisters? Maybe it's because we've lowered our standards, we've become weak, passive, idiotic. We need something to get us back on our feet. Any volunteer Hitlers?[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if you're trolling or what. All of your posts I've seen have been outlandish and idiotic and you say stupid shit that is insulting and mind-boggling.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36716573]I'm not sure if you're trolling or what. All of your posts I've seen have been outlandish and idiotic and you say stupid shit that is insulting and mind-boggling.[/QUOTE] I think you are the worst member of this website. You are the fox news of this website. Every assumption you make is considered fact (alien thread), you distract from the conversation constantly, and you come across as a hard-headed dumbass. I believe that it's important to assess what qualities humans have and work with them in the nicest way possible, but you are simply a moron. You need to take a hard introspective look at how you handle debate and other humans before you come into this section and interject your "only" opinion and answers to everything. The point of debate is to compare the similarities and differences of both sides and make an informative conclusion that enlightens everyone. You on the other hand seem to post your subjective thoughts whenever you feel, without sympthazing at all for the person you are responding to. Please change your ways. I'm sure you can contribute to the conversation, I just think that I speak on behalf of many Facepunchers when I say stop talking to us like a condescending arse-bag.

The recession is over, however, for some reason cyclical unemployment is still high compared to our past recoveries. Economists say that this is because we keep extending our unemployment benefits and that folks have adjusted their living expenses to subside off of 40% of their previous salary. Also what the guy above me said, the derivatives bubble is going to do the entire world in.

As far as I can tell America will crash one day and become just another nation. Not a superpower, a larger player due to size but no longer a superpower.

If america dies then so does Canada and thats bad for me

I don't think America is doomed, but if it turns out I'm wrong, I call dibs on Rhode Island. We've only hit a bump in the road. I think once we get a new president, we will finally be back on track to being the best nation in the world again.