Do you think America is doomed, or that it hit a bump in it's progression as a nation? - General

[QUOTE=yy958;37771447]I believe that America will be doomed if Obama gets his second term. What people don't understand is that Obama is a complete communist and nobody can see through him because of the fact that about 90-95 percent of the people in the media are democrat. Time magazine has been sucking up to Obama for months and his "town man" personality has made everyone see him as the good guy. For instance, he keeps saying, "We will strengthen the middle class and create everyone equal!" That is what communism is defined as, and he even has become disgusting in his political tactics with the Tell a neighbor act and the act to give more taxes to rich people and less taxes to poor people. We are screwed if he gets a second term.[/QUOTE] Hilarious work there, do you write for Colbert or something?

My $0.02 America is messed up, but not because it's dying, because it's sick. Maybe that would've been lethal to an "empire" back in the days of Greece and Rome, where there was no global cooperation or interdependant economies, but now that's just a part of a country's existance. The country's overdue for a civil war, or revolution, which can be compared to the body's immune system's response to an infection. Getting sick is how one's body improves, learning from previous battles. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger (unless, of course, it cripples the hell out of you, in which case there are other countries to provide help like hospital staff would). But one also must point out places like Britain, where they went from a global empire to that one island that doesn't give a fuck. Here, a country reached it's pinnacle, and slowly fadded away. The existence of England isn't in danger, but it's only a shadow of it's previous empire. Weather or not America will lose its dominance in the world is up for debate, as there's not much of a way of measuring this until it happens (another country tells the US to stop "or else", and it works). And even then, will it be economic, military, or social power that is lost? In short, America is sick with ignorance, apathy, and arrogance. Three dangerous traits that come with good times. Individual people don't need knowledge to survive or even be successful. With things going well here, there grows a total disconnect from the rest of the world. Leading then to a distorted image that everyone else is worthless in comparison. This infection must be fought, and the longer it grows the more blood will be spill when the system is purged. All we can do now is either wait for tensions to reach the flash point, or help push towards it.

[QUOTE=DerMaus;37838994]My $0.02 America is messed up, but not because it's dying, because it's sick. Maybe that would've been lethal to an "empire" back in the days of Greece and Rome, where there was no global cooperation or interdependant economies, but now that's just a part of a country's existance. The country's overdue for a civil war, or revolution, which can be compared to the body's immune system's response to an infection. Getting sick is how one's body improves, learning from previous battles. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger (unless, of course, it cripples the hell out of you, in which case there are other countries to provide help like hospital staff would). But one also must point out places like Britain, where they went from a global empire to that one island that doesn't give a fuck. Here, a country reached it's pinnacle, and slowly fadded away. The existence of England isn't in danger, but it's only a shadow of it's previous empire. Weather or not America will lose its dominance in the world is up for debate, as there's not much of a way of measuring this until it happens (another country tells the US to stop "or else", and it works). And even then, will it be economic, military, or social power that is lost? In short, America is sick with ignorance, apathy, and arrogance. Three dangerous traits that come with good times. Individual people don't need knowledge to survive or even be successful. With things going well here, there grows a total disconnect from the rest of the world. Leading then to a distorted image that everyone else is worthless in comparison. This infection must be fought, and the longer it grows the more blood will be spill when the system is purged. All we can do now is either wait for tensions to reach the flash point, or help push towards it.[/QUOTE] Great job posting extremely vague and meaningless rhetoric. You haven't offered anything.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37853018]Great job posting extremely vague and meaningless rhetoric. You haven't offered anything.[/QUOTE] Okay, let me spell it out: America isn't dying, it's sick. The disease is that of ignorance, which happens when individual members of a society are no longer required to think critically for their own safety. Eventually the greater population starts to lose its edge the longer they're spoiled. The natural way of societies is to fix this by reinstating that necessity through manmade violence. And so you have revolutions and civil wars. It's a way of the society turning on all the valves, pulling out all the stops, and flipping all the dials up to 11 in order to break what's crap, find the problems in what's good, and rebuild what's destroyed, but better. Basically, I'm saying the US is overdue for a bloody civil war. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating - verbose with no specificity" - Megafan))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=DerMaus;37865258]Okay, let me spell it out: America isn't dying, it's sick. The disease is that of ignorance, which happens when individual members of a society are no longer required to think critically for their own safety. Eventually the greater population starts to lose its edge the longer they're spoiled. The natural way of societies is to fix this by reinstating that necessity through manmade violence. And so you have revolutions and civil wars. It's a way of the society turning on all the valves, pulling out all the stops, and flipping all the dials up to 11 in order to break what's crap, find the problems in what's good, and rebuild what's destroyed, but better. Basically, I'm saying the US is overdue for a bloody civil war.[/QUOTE] Why? What will be the cause of this war? What will it accomplish? Just because you have some generic philosophy about a nation's life cycle (that is completely ridiculous and wrong I'm afraid) doesn't mean it fits into every nation situation.

[QUOTE=BuG;37613784]I just don't understand how a government can keep being a government when over 50% (let alone 91%) of the population isn't satisfied. Why aren't 91% of the Americans demanding change? And the general voting system (for presidents at least) is totally flawed imo. I don't see the logic behind winning by 51% grants you 100% of the votes of the state. That can lead to some serious off-balance in the end. You could theoretically become president by winning in just enough states with 50.1%, and the loosing by 100% in all the other states. That amounts to about 25% of the votes for you, and 75% against you total? I may have misunderstood something, but that's how I think it works.[/QUOTE] With the electoral college, you can become the president with only like 15-20% of the votes IIRC

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37868463]Why? What will be the cause of this war? What will it accomplish? Just because you have some generic philosophy about a nation's life cycle (that is completely ridiculous and wrong I'm afraid) doesn't mean it fits into every nation situation.[/QUOTE] Well, to be specific, in a society run by capitalism it's the redistribution of wealth and power that's been concentrated at the top. A sort of reset button for the game once people start winning, to re-level the playing field. But in the greater scheme of things it's a reset button on ideology. The current mindset of America is run by blissful ignorance because there is no real necessity to think critically, or at all in some cases. This could be due to unabated laziness, since it takes effort to use that magnificent thing called Google, assemble the different solutions to a problem, and decide which one feels is best. Such a disgusting habit is permitted by a spoiled (for lack of a better word) society. Here, spoiled would mean a society that doesn't require its members to empathetic not only to each other but to people in general. Empathy is something hardwired into human brains, because it's a means of encouraging us to be social and cooperative. It's primary purpose is to increase our chances of survival by driving us to team up. But when a society gets to a point where people don't need to cooperate to gain a content lifestyle, it becomes spoiled and allows ideological diseases like ignorance, apathy, and arrogance to spread. These eventually will either errode the society, or be destroyed. It's like rust in the machine. Now some might argue that a society can be engineered that keeps this all-important trait fresh in people's minds. I certainly hope they're right. But clearly this isn't the case for America. People continue to be apolitical and detached from complex or unpleasant issues because they don't see them directly affecting their ability to watch cat videos on YouTube, so these problems grow, and grow, and grow until they do. Like government moving its interests away from those of its voters because they're not actually checking up on their congressmen. Finally, these problems reach a point where the only apparent way to solve them is through violence, another natural human tendency. Like, possibly, politicians trusted only by default apathy become powerful enough not to be threatened by public outrage at their decisions. A large-scale act of violence serves two purposes. 1) It's the fastest, though not the most efficient, way of enacting change in a society. Like the demolition of the house; some things that weren't crap are lost, but problems that would've been ignored are torn down along with those that called for such drastic action. 2) It forces people to become empathetic to one another, lest they risk dying. That manmade Darwinism (again, for lack of a better phrase). It's ideological natural selection, where ideals are tested in the most extreme environment and those that aren't suited to benefit society are cast aside or altered, lest they be destroyed. But to be honest, I don't see a second American civil war in the near future, since there would have to be two well-armed groups of citizens with opposing viewpoints, and the liberals aren't buying guns until the conservatives start picking them off to the point where they feel the government can't (or just plain choosing not to) defend them. That doesn't mean it's any less necessary, though.

[QUOTE=DerMaus;37870212]Well, to be specific, in a society run by capitalism it's the redistribution of wealth and power that's been concentrated at the top. A sort of reset button for the game once people start winning, to re-level the playing field. But in the greater scheme of things it's a reset button on ideology. The current mindset of America is run by blissful ignorance because there is no real necessity to think critically, or at all in some cases. This could be due to unabated laziness, since it takes effort to use that magnificent thing called Google, assemble the different solutions to a problem, and decide which one feels is best. Such a disgusting habit is permitted by a spoiled (for lack of a better word) society. Here, spoiled would mean a society that doesn't require its members to empathetic not only to each other but to people in general. Empathy is something hardwired into human brains, because it's a means of encouraging us to be social and cooperative. It's primary purpose is to increase our chances of survival by driving us to team up. But when a society gets to a point where people don't need to cooperate to gain a content lifestyle, it becomes spoiled and allows ideological diseases like ignorance, apathy, and arrogance to spread. These eventually will either errode the society, or be destroyed. It's like rust in the machine. Now some might argue that a society can be engineered that keeps this all-important trait fresh in people's minds. I certainly hope they're right. But clearly this isn't the case for America. People continue to be apolitical and detached from complex or unpleasant issues because they don't see them directly affecting their ability to watch cat videos on YouTube, so these problems grow, and grow, and grow until they do. Like government moving its interests away from those of its voters because they're not actually checking up on their congressmen. Finally, these problems reach a point where the only apparent way to solve them is through violence, another natural human tendency. Like, possibly, politicians trusted only by default apathy become powerful enough not to be threatened by public outrage at their decisions. A large-scale act of violence serves two purposes. 1) It's the fastest, though not the most efficient, way of enacting change in a society. Like the demolition of the house; some things that weren't crap are lost, but problems that would've been ignored are torn down along with those that called for such drastic action. 2) It forces people to become empathetic to one another, lest they risk dying. That manmade Darwinism (again, for lack of a better phrase). It's ideological natural selection, where ideals are tested in the most extreme environment and those that aren't suited to benefit society are cast aside or altered, lest they be destroyed. But to be honest, I don't see a second American civil war in the near future, since there would have to be two well-armed groups of citizens with opposing viewpoints, and the liberals aren't buying guns until the conservatives start picking them off to the point where they feel the government can't (or just plain choosing not to) defend them. That doesn't mean it's any less necessary, though.[/QUOTE] You didn't answer my question at all, nor did you add anything to the purpose of the thread which is to discuss whether America is "doomed" the entire premise of the thread is faulty and it should have never been made because such a question can never be answered or properly discussed since it was never defined. Still, I did read you commentary and it is nothing. Your words are meaningless pseudo-philosophic babble and you offer absolutely no explanation for your assertions. And then, at the end, you say that there will be no conflict? Is that what you said? I'm not sure that I understand what you're even trying to say, but did you really type all of that and then just contradict yourself wholly? But seriously, what would be the cause of this "war" and what would it accomplish?

I believe health is the ultimate factor which determines how well everything else works out. And when the tap water, salt, most fresh produce, and food containers are all poisoned, health is going to be bad. And on top of that, the consequences of bad health are treated in ways that make it even worse. America right now is Elvis near the end of his life.

[QUOTE=Audio-Surfer;37878876]I believe health is the ultimate factor which determines how well everything else works out. And when the tap water, salt, most fresh produce, and food containers are all poisoned, health is going to be bad. And on top of that, the consequences of bad health are treated in ways that make it even worse. America right now is Elvis near the end of his life.[/QUOTE] hat are you talking about? How are our "tap water, salt, most fresh produce, and food containers" poisoned? And what do you mean by "the consequences of bad health are treated in ways that make it even worse"?

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37881654]hat are you talking about? How are our "tap water, salt, most fresh produce, and food containers" poisoned? And what do you mean by "the consequences of bad health are treated in ways that make it even worse"?[/QUOTE] Fluoride, pesticides, plastics. A lot of pains and mood disorders can be fixed by eating better, but instead people take pain killers and psychoactive drugs.

[QUOTE=3dwizard;37599498]It's not strange at all. Maybe it would be strange if you understood that I eat the foods that I said I eat, directly from those countries which is not the case. I have restaurants here in my country with certain cuisines. I rather go to a iranian or lebaneese or indian themed restaurant than to an all american fast food joint where all they sell is shitty chemical toxic food that doesn't even satisfy your hunger... I stopped drinking shitty coca cola, pepsi, sprite, fanta and all that crap many years ago! I don't drink energy drinks or other shit like that either because I can always replace them with some nice belgian beers wihch are 100 times more natural and contain less chemicals! And the thing is, many others do the same here, that's why obesity is not such a big problem in europe as it is in usa. But that's besides the point I was trying to make. I was trying to point out that europeans are not all brainwashed with american shit and they are starting to rapidly reject what america has to offer. We have our own currency, our own foods, our own electronics. The more we quit on american products, the faster america will have financial problems. And we do know here in europe most of us at least, that america desperately wants the euro to collapse in eurpe so that europe starts using more dollars like in the 90's Ever since euro got activated in europe, america has problems and now that china is giving usa the finger, america is going down fast. USA is not responsible enough to be a super power anymore. USA is a ghost of it's former self and the fact that it has so many weapons is a danger to itself and to the entire world. Israel and Usa should be disarmed in my honest opinion as they constitute a danger for the entire world. USA and Israel are ticking bombs. I personally hope that Iran truly has nukes and is prepared to use them on whoever attacks them.[/QUOTE] Please, for the love of god, learn what the hell [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph"]paragraphs[/URL] are for. Because if you're trying to make a point, having poor grammar completely invalidates it. Especially when you type like this, one line at a time. So please, learn how to format, [I]especially [/I]in a debate thread. [editline]6th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Audio-Surfer;37886105]Fluoride, pesticides, plastics. A lot of pains and mood disorders can be fixed by eating better, but instead people take pain killers and psychoactive drugs.[/QUOTE] Oh great, a fluoride conspiracist. No, just, [I][B]NO[/B][/I]. Fluoride is not hazardous at the levels present in tap water it's presence. Please go understand the basic concept of what a substance's "toxicity threshold" is before you start spouting conspiracy-based drivel.

[quote=]As our world shakes and reels from the shock waves of the current financial crisis; there are still those who believe naively that what is now occurring is part of some cyclical `ebb and flow` in the evolution of the worlds financial markets, which will in time, begin to recover and once again, the good times will return. I have some bad news for those `optimists`! There will be no recovery. What is happening now is as David Icke has written at length, part of a grand strategy to create a New World Order, a `One World State` with a World Government, World Army, World Bank, World Currency, World Religion and a vastly reduced population of micro chipped slaves. Money as we know it will soon cease to exist. In it’s place will be `Electronic Money`, initially utilised via `Biometric ID Cards` being introduced at the moment in the UK and elsewhere, which in turn will be replaced by `Personal Microchips` replete with RFID technology. This `progress` will be sold to the public on the basis of being to everyone’s advantage. Never again will our children be vulnerable to `capture and abuse` for we will know where they are at all times (as will the State for the rest of their lives) and our `money` will be `un-stealable` (except by the State). Of course, one must consider what happens if our `microchip` gets switched off? Perhaps because we are not complying fully with the plethora of ever more personally restrictive legislation certain to be introduced in order to dictate and micromanage our every action, and even our every thought. Simply put, unlike at the moment, when if our Credit Card fails to `perform` you can just use cash. When there is no cash, and your `chip` is `down. You steal or starve! The economic aspect and goal of the Illuminati is a world currency. In order to effect this, it has been necessary to degrade the independent national currencies. The introduction of the Euro was a stepping stone towards this, and the current economic woes being felt in the UK are undoubtedly intended to drag that once proud nation `kicking and screaming` into the `single currency.` But again, the Euro was never intended as an end in itself. Only an `increment` towards the final solution to the Luciferian Illuminati’s goal of world domination, and their world money system. Once everyone is implanted with this chip, people's liberties and privacy will cease to exist. With a 24/7 G.P.S. implanted in you, all your moves and transactions will be recorded and "big brother's" power will be impossible to challenge. One might say "People would never fall for that" but as people in power know, if you create a state of fear, people will beg you to take away their freedoms, as we can see in the 911 attacks and the signing of the patriot act. [/quote] This guy should be guiding the blind over the bumpy trails like reading braille.

[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;37936759]No, just, [I][B]NO[/B][/I]. Fluoride is not hazardous at the levels present in tap water it's presence. Please go understand the basic concept of what a substance's "toxicity threshold" is before you start spouting conspiracy-based drivel.[/QUOTE] What if you drank a shitload of tapwater?

I do think that America has hit a bump in its "recovery" from devastating times like President Bush and other crap that's too hard to explain. However, the economy is very weak, and the unemployment rate over here is 8% or somewhere near close that.

Short answer: Yes. Very high criminality - checked Highest obesity percentage in the world - checked Average IQ significantly lower than Europe's - checked Uncontrollable immigration - checked Invading random countries for it's benefits - checked I probably forgot many other stuff or i am simply not in the mood to write more. Goodbye americuh. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]

There is a very,very sinister reason why USA is doomed. Like every other nation in the world. I cannot explain it,this video should do. [video=youtube;mII9NZ8MMVM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM&feature=related[/video] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]

i think to say a country is doomed is a bit of an overstatement. there needs to be some reform in the goverment, but the country as a whole is just in a period of reshuffling. completely ignoring politics (which makes me want to jump out of my 6 story window every time any1 speaks) the country is still the leader in rocketry, space exploration (we have more probes, parts on the ISS, and rockets per capita), we have a semi-private space industry which hasnt been copied anywhere except for the one company in europe that launches in the atlantic, our education system....eh needs great overhaul. unfortunatly the fact that the schools are state run, while federaly mandated has just lead to many problems, and colleges have their "nfp" status while they give out free admission to minorities of every class (ya a latino kid whos parents make 150k+ gets a full ride, while a white middle class guy with 1 parent on unemployment has to pay 40k+) students from all over the world still pour into american institutes, the goverment just needs to step in and regulate the price of admissions, instead of increasing subsidies to colleges, who in turn increase the size of their financial aid, . the entire education system needs change, but that can be fixed. the us dollar is still the greatest currency, and our exports are on their way back up. 3D printing is poised to reverse the trade flow between china and the U.S., because why do you need cheap labor to make plastic junk when you can press print, leave the room, go knock back a couple brewskies, and have your part done. on a whole, this is just a bumpy time in america, people in the late 60s thought the country was going to collapse, and we made it through, the times today are very very similar, we'll make it through, and unlike the turn of the last decade, the country is primed for a huge boom in the 20-teens, or w/e the hell they want to call them those who criticise our election system forget how simple it actually is compared to say....a parliamentary system, or w/e the hell france has, our constitution and all its amendements can fit inside a book that can fit inside my pocket, with 12 point font. does that mean our goverment is stupidly simple it must break down? idk but we sure as hell have alot less Ministries of _______ and ______ here than any other democracy in the world, and our congress is shaped so that political parties need to be big to survive instead of parllament where block parties form and you have to deal with 10-15 different parties legislating for something instead of 2-4 political parties that fill congress, (yes the libertarians and the other 3rd parties DO have legislation every once and a while), the United State's democracy isn't perfect, and our history reflects that, but you would be hard pressed to find a democracy with less baggage than the U.S.'s goverment anywhere in the world.

Am I allowed to think neither? Why is this thread title so assuming and one-sided?

[QUOTE=gk99;38187483]What if you drank a shitload of tapwater?[/QUOTE] Then you would die from hyponatremia. Which doesn't have anything to do with fluoride.

Im pritty sure floride in an aquious form isn't toxic, I believe its the gas you gotta worry about like because its highly corrosive That being said I think there's a culture of ignorance that exists here that has led to the rise of interest groups,and idiots who think vaccines cause autism, but the ignorant person isn't going to go educate himself even though the relevant articles are 2 clicks away

[QUOTE=IPK;38222630]There is a very,very sinister reason why USA is doomed. Like every other nation in the world. I cannot explain it,this video should do. [video=youtube;mII9NZ8MMVM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM&feature=related[/video] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Vote ron paul 2012 [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]

The way USA thinks of itself will in the end kill it. "They" think they can help anyone and many other nations finds it stupid and calls them assholes. The presidential campaign is also ridiculous. They use a bunch of money to get the job, not by doing what they stand for.

There are over 20 countries in the Americas. Which one? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Being obtuse is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=3vans;37698135]As an outsider, here's what I see: 1. America have really screwed themselves over in debt and other economic crises 2. They then blame this on the current president if they're liberal 3. The funny thing is, the liberal president was just trying to deal with the debt left upon them by the last president Then America will eventually collapse under their own weight and bring the world down with them if they don't fix this. The worst part is that Rupert Murdoch then goes and votes in the presidents that give him money - which are the presidents that cause this goddamned debt crises. Correct me if I'm wrong, Americans. I don't live there so I'd really like to hear about it.[/QUOTE] jesus christ, everyone shut the fuck up about the debt. there is no american "debt crisis". people are literally paying us to take their money. now is the time to take advantage of that and bolster our infrastructure.

[QUOTE]So my question in short is, through your own opinion and facts, do you think our country is doomed, or are we seriously stressing out over small things while we're in a slow point?[/QUOTE] In the medium term (30-40 years), the country will probably have afford a standard of living to the average resident somewhere between the Philippines and the damn Congo. In the meantime, things will atrophy, and along the way, there will be a debt crisis about on par with Argentina's that will trigger a dollar sell-off...after that comes petrol shortages and currency controls. In the very near future, it is very likely that a charismatic windbag with a military background and a very pronounced evangelical authoritarian, almost semi-theocratic bent will be in the White House and his antics will likely contribute to the downfall. I think this because the institutions that the American man on the street trust the most are the military and the church. I have taken measures to protect myself because I will not go down with this ship. Rather, I intend to take the cash register and be the first to the lifeboats. :yarr: I am in the process of getting a second passport from Paraguay; it has very liberal naturalisation laws. I have stored gold in Singapore (10oz isn't much); I highly recommend DBS and having the box fee debited from a Sing acc't directly. Gold stored overseas does not have to be declared to the IRS, nor do accounts so long as they total less than $10k. Finally, while everyone is concerned about food, most people neglect the importance of having a supply of water: I keep 8 8gal jugs and cycle through them four at a time so at any given time, I have at least 32 gallons, or about a month's supply of well water for drinking. In passing, this is my first post; hello everyone.

[QUOTE=Sableye;38230558]Im pritty sure floride in an aquious form isn't toxic, I believe its the gas you gotta worry about like because its highly corrosive[/QUOTE] Sodium fluoride IS toxic in large enough doses. Prolonged exposure to concentrations too high can cause mental degradation. Small concentrations won't do anything, but "anything" also includes not helping your teeth at all. There are some statistics about increased dental fluorosis, but I'd chalk that up to people following the stupid overbrushing advice of dentists.