• Serious Airship Construction
    181 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ragy;25069602]Facepunch are not aerospace engineers. Building anything like this is extremely complicated and dangerous if not done exactly right.[/QUOTE] Actually, a few of us are. Just to give you an approximation on just one of the costs involved... Helium can lift about 1 ounce per cubic foot and costs about $20 for 9 cubic feet of the stuff.([url]http://j.piri.home.mchsi.com/question.htm[/url]) There are 16 ounces in a pound. ($20/9 ft^3)*(16)= $36 per pound of lift So to lift a pound of weight you would need to purchase $36 dollars worth of helium. Now, that is if you purchase the helium in quantities sold for party balloons. We'll assume you get a bulk discount and get it for $15 per 9 cubic feet. ($15/9 ft^3)*(16)= $27 per pound of lift So, if you wanted to lift 2000 pounds you would end up paying... ($27/pound)*(2000 pounds) = [B]$54,000[/B] Of course, that doesn't mean you can lift 2000 pounds of people or cargo, it means the total weight of the craft, including the skin of the balloon, must be equal to or less than 2000 pounds. Don't forget that some helium will be lost over time, depending on the material used this can be a fast, slow, or nearly non-existent concern. The weight usually used for the "average" person in calculating safety and performance limits is about 250 pounds, so assuming you wanted to transport 3 people, that would mean 750 pounds of weight is used on the people alone, that leaves only 1250 for the structure of the craft, the power system, and anything else you need to install on there. Assuming you built the "deck" of the ship using 1-inch thick plywood and it was about 10ft x 10ft the weight of just the floor would be... (100 ft^2)*(3 pounds/ft^2)= 300 pounds A single piece of plywood, only an inch thick, with no support beams, the size of a medium bathroom, weighs approximately 300 pounds. Realistically, you'd have a difficult time keeping the structure itself under 2000 pounds, never mind the weight of the passengers and everything else. This project seems far beyond your current capabilities. Many adults pursue adventurous, expensive, and all-together crazy ideas similar to this one out of their own pocket, but they take years to complete and it absorbs most their expendable income in the process. If you are interested in blimps or other lighter-than-air craft, I'd suggest you look into the smaller RC versions that are for sale; it will be far cheaper, far safer, and achievable much sooner.
I dunno if anyone has already said this but If anyone could build it am pretty sure the engineers wouldn't get paid as well as they do. In short You can't build it, it's not airfix! Also i think you may have watched a bit to much anime.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9jVS2AqD2I[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdS1GqNpcR0[/media]
Oh look, this thread again. Really, it's "I want to build an airship without any prior knowledge" v76. Why is this such a popular topic?
It's Facepunch. What did you expect?
[QUOTE=Ragy;25069602]Facepunch are not aerospace engineers. Building anything like this is extremely complicated and dangerous if not done exactly right.[/QUOTE] [Media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b4WzWFKQ20[/Media] Fast Forward to ending if you want to see an example of what happens when you try this kind of shit without being EXTREMELY PRECISE AND CAREFUL. THE INTERNET IS NOT APPROPRIATE ADVICE FOR MAKING AN AERONAUTICAL VEHICLE. ALWAYS CONSULT EDUCATED ENGINEERS FOR APPROPRIATE ADVICE.
that is such an awesome show
I think OP is trolling us. :frog:
[QUOTE=Greg73;25080289]Thanks. I really appreciate the help. Glad to see somebody who came to this thread was mature enough to offer a helpin hand.[/QUOTE] You don't get it. It's not about being "mature" or not. It's about that what you're trying to build is fucking physically impossible. Ships are designed to be supported from the [I]bottom[/I], not the [I]top[/I]. I mean, yeah, yeah, steampunk art is cool, but it's not realistic. [I]It's not in the real world, OP.[/I] I personally don't like to play dress-up and pretend ships can fly. I mean, you'd probably just be better off buying an airship that's already built. That is, if you're even still interested in this after a couple days.
It's not that it's physically impossible. It's possible. It's just really really really stupid and useless, and it's probably going to be blown off course, crash into something, and bam, there goes your million dollars worth of helium escaping into the atmosphere.
yeah, and good luck avoiding power lines and recreational planes. oh, and a pilots license would be the very start in getting this legal. and if you want us to help out, a more clear image of what you want built will help, because it could range from helium balloons tied to office chairs to hindenberg-esque blimps
when I was in 3rd grade I wrote in my journal for class that I was going to build a spaceship out of a cardboard box and started drawing plans for it.
[QUOTE=Nerdrage;25084068]yeah, and good luck avoiding power lines and recreational planes. oh, and a pilots license would be the very start in getting this legal. and if you want us to help out, a more clear image of what you want built will help, because it could range from helium balloons tied to office chairs to hindenberg-esque blimps[/QUOTE] He basically wants to attach an old wooden galleon to a blimp and fly it around. The fact is, he's 18 apparently, probably watches too much anime, and has exactly zero idea on how physics work. The work, money, time, and resources alone required to make this would never be accessible to an 18 year old. He also said that he has sent 3 years of research on this, which means he started at around 14 or 15. In other words, he has no fucking clue and should just be disregarded. Also, just to add complications, I wanna know how he plans to get authorization from the FAA to fly this thing. A craft like this would require a lot of inspections, many of which it would almost certainly never pass, would require a supervised launch, and then would have to report to the FAA everytime it did anything. You'd have a better chance of seeing Michael Jackson rise from the dead than this thing rise from the ground. [editline]02:35AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Guy Mannly;25084311]when I was in 3rd grade I wrote in my journal for class that I was going to build a spaceship out of a cardboard box and started drawing plans for it.[/QUOTE] In the third grade, I designed my own fragmentation grenade, then realized what a terrible idea it was and forgot about it entirely.
I failed to read the OP well enough. I didn't realize you wanted to carry an entire wooden ship underneath. In that case... An incredibly small, wooden vessel would weigh at least 50 tons ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinta_(ship)[/url]). 50 tons = 100,000 pounds (100,000 pounds)*($27/pound of lift) = [B]$2,700,000[/B] For just the helium alone you'd have to pay in excess of $2.7 million dollars. My suggestion, get a hot-air balloon ride. They usually cost less than $500 for a trip that will last a few hours.
[img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080812173910/flapjack/images/a/ab/GrandFlyingContraption_0.2.jpg[/img]
It [i]could[/i] work but you will need to do some heavy money saving and live with your parents for the next 7 years before having the funds to do such a thing, you will also need a good job. Then comes the problem of where are you going to store the materials and how are you going to buy so much helium as to not arouse government suspicion? Then you need to spend about 8 years of your life constructing the thing if you already have a plan if not then I suggest making one and getting a real aerospace engineer to check it out and point various flaws out. Should all be done and ready to go when you are 40 good luck. For all you who are saying it is impossible. Why are saying this, of course it isn't impossible use your head.
[url]http://www.searlsolution.com/technology3.html[/url] either waste a fuck ton of money on a worthless air vehicle from some shitty anime. or make a fucking awesome UFO that generates a fuckton of electricity.
Okay, now Op. Get all ideas you have out of your head. First, a ship suspended below a balloon isn't going to happen. First, use a hydrogen and helium mix if you can, hydrogen will provide most of the lift while helium, being non-flammable while snuff out fires. A good design to use would be a small airship with a small cabin, >1000 pound cabin, Don't be a dick and use wood, use Lightweight metals, if you get cold, and you can spare the weight, put in a heater. Have a 3 chamber system with a hydrogen top, helium middle and hot air in the bottom, the helium will expand causing the airship to rise, while letting off the heat would cause a slow decent. The skin around the hydrogen gas should be heatproof, or if you want to spend more, remove the hydrogen component completely. For propulsion is suggest something lightweight that uses no liquid fuel, such as a a battery powered fan or propeller. Add small windmills to the side of the ship to return some power back to the battery's, solar panels might be a worthy investment if you can spare the weight. Hope i helped influence you decisions.
Hey I've got a better idea that will cost less and be much more awesome and has no risk of a leak in case of which you would need to re-buy your entire supply of helium, which would happen, plus you probably don't have a hangar big enough to store it in the first place, especially if you want to leave helium inside. As I was saying, rather make this. [IMG]http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f10/89331d1227297539-carvers-gallery-800px-trebuchet_castelnaud.jpg[/IMG] A trebuchet. If you don't build it like a complete lunatic and not apply any protective coating, and if anything goes wrong, wood is much cheaper to replace than helium, super light aluminium frames or all the expensive ropes you'll need to use to tie everything together. Plus you'd have the upper hand at snow wars, water balloon battles and watermelon launching contest. And if you insist on making something that files: Make a hot air balloon. Since it uses fuel to fly, a catastrophic leak would mean only death rather than also bankruptcy because of helium usage.
Well I think you should live life by the edge and use hydrogen instead. I know its dangerous but you'll have better lift from it.
[highlight][b]Serious Post![/b][/highlight] Last year, just for the hell of it, a friend and I spent about 6 months slowly designing a zeppelin (because... hey, why the hell not? Zeppelins are fucking badass). We decided to use [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duralumin"][b]duralumin[/b][/URL] for the frame for its light weight and high strength. It's the same kind of metal that the Hindenburg was made of and that most modern day aircraft are made from. We decided on [URL="http://www2.dupont.com/Tedlar_PVF_Film/en_US/tech_info/index.html"][b]DuPont Tedlar PVF[/b][/URL] for the envelope (we discovered it's used on the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppelin_NT"][b]Zeppelin NT[/b][/URL] and decided it must be fit for the job). It's got low gas permeability (which is a huge plus when talking about a zeppelin) and it's quite hardy. When calculating the cost of [URL="http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/blimp/"][B]helium to fill that bitch up[/B][/URL] I discovered it would cost, if memory serves me correctly (I'll have to find the folder containing all of the info again to be sure): 1.5 million dollars (USD, I think). That's JUST for helium. However this was under the assumption we'd be buying THOUSANDS of small canisters of the stuff. In reality we'd probably get it cheaper for buying it in such huge quantities from some company. We wanted to go all out on the motherfucker and designed it with [b]TWO[/b] gondolas (you fucking heard me: TWO motherfucking gondolas) connected by a bridge (one gondola at the front of the zep, and one at the back, and a big, bridge between them). The thing was gonna be extravagant as all hell, the gondolas were gonna be huge, and we wanted tonnes of room for passengers. The added weight forced us to design the thing to be close to the size of the Hindenburg (in the end I think we decided if we were gonna design something so large anyway we might as well surpass the record, so I think the final design ended up being like 10-20 metres longer, and somewhat wider). The codename for our project was [b]LZ Notablimp[/b] (because we got so many fucking people ask us, "how's the blimp going?" and we had to explain the difference between fucking blimps and rigid-framed airships about a BILLION times. We figured calling it that would deter questions on blimps). [b]Edit:[/b] During our time designing our airship I discovered something: One, large airships are fucking freaky enough as it is. Two, the length-to-width ratio of an airship can completely change the way in how you perceive it. For example, the Hindenberg was quite 'chunky' for its length and as such it didn't look AS intimidating as, say, the SL20, which was significantly skinny for its length. Here's a picture of the SL20, and, everyone I've showed this to agrees: this airship is fucking creepy (check out how small the people are under the tail fins!): [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/SL20.jpg[/img]
OP, 2 points. No, actually make that 4. 1. You cant afford this. Ever. Ever. Ever. 2. You are not an engineer. You have no idea about anything. 3. This mightve even worked in a smaller scale, say, hot air balloon, but noooo, you want a flying fucking house with no engineering degree. 4. Stop comparing yourself to people who have done impossible things. You are not a movie star, neither are you tat one dude from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, which you apparently think you are.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;25069627]Neither are you a grammar expert[/QUOTE] No he's not. But that post was completely correct.
Start with a boat.
You could use Aluminum too, you can get away with wood for floorboards and such, but you'll get a better weight ratio with aluminum. Just remember to take stress points in your framework into account, aluminum doesn't like being fatigued.
[QUOTE=Greg73;25073361]I swear, next time I'm takin this to 4chan. I'm sure there's much less butthurt there.[/QUOTE] And I'm sure they'll help much more so go away
theoretically if you had a big enough balloon you could provide lift for nearly anything, even a house... doesn't mean it's practical, though.
[QUOTE=Greg73;25070944]For one, I'm 18, been so since august. 2, who says I'm not saving up every penny I make for a few years?[/QUOTE] We have the same birthday! I haven't noticed you say where you actually plan to get such money. You'd need a hell of a job or a pretty big donation.
[QUOTE=Greg73;25070561]Back to /b/ with you, troll![/QUOTE] I am afraid that you are going to hell. Stop posting or go into this door freeman, Your choice. [editline]08:42PM[/editline] If you are dumb enough to believe in hell [editline]08:43PM[/editline] which you are. [editline]08:43PM[/editline] also good luck op [editline]08:43PM[/editline] wait you are the op fuck [editline]08:43PM[/editline] good luck removed. [editline]08:44PM[/editline] :smug:
[QUOTE=Greg73;25072622]Exactly. I heard that Rip-Stop Nylon would work, but after looking into it I realized they were exaggerating a bit. [editline]03:25PM[/editline] Well, since your taking this from a realistic viewpoint, and actually being understanding, I might take your advice. Tell me more about this design.[/QUOTE] I rather have that you show whatever engineering skills you have. Im not here to tell you what to do or even do it for you. This looks an awfull lot like one of those: Hey guys I have an Awesome idea for a game and i need Mappers, programmers, modelers and story writers. But i cant to shit myself but do get full credit cause its my idea!
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