• This is What Happens When You Criticize Donald Trump | Keith Olbermann
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[QUOTE=hexpunK;51427717]Why is "bias" a bad thing if what is being said is entirely correct?\[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but I refuse to listen to what equates to literal propaganda. Regardless of how correct it is, the very NATURE of it being a slam-series as it is makes me gag. I'll accept what truth it has, but I'm not talking about rights and wrongs here. This isn't about correct or false information. This is about the fact that it's so biased towards one side that it literally does not care about anything the other side has to say Shit like this video is why this country is in the shitter. Trump is guilty of this, so is the entire right wing, and the entire left wing. This need to 'call out' the other side without even pointing at it and going "But also, some of things do indeed work" There are some things I agree with Trump doing, and most things that I don't. But outright slamming and invalidating him doesn't actually make 'the good guys' look better. not only that, but Right wingers will only use this as ammo against left wingers in the exact same manner Leftists do with Alex Jones. Except they won't give a fuck about facts, just the extremism. The series is unironically called "the resistance" for god sake!
[QUOTE=Tudd;51426849]You never cease to amaze me with how hyperbole you make me sound. [editline]25th November 2016[/editline] [/QUOTE] Honestly pal, judge me however you want, I will never care. The truth is you act like politics is a game, and the losers are just "Sore", they haven't lost anything and never will in your mind. The problem is, Tudd, that's not fucking reality. You have fully substituted your own reality. Feelz before reelz. That's what 2016 is. The year where we stop giving a fuck what's true, and we only do what we "feel" is right. Trump is the literal poster boy for that.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;51415865]most people on facebook are already immersed in their own eco chamber, and the hard right-wingers already did years ago.[/QUOTE] If you call people sexist/racist/islamophobes/homophobes/immoral/deplorable for any concern or opinion that's less "progressive" then yeah they might lock themselves in echochambers where they aren't called these things. At they might also vote for someone who's not calling them these names as well. [QUOTE=glitchvid;51415865]It's an asinine accusation that people who spoke up against trump [I]are the reason he won[/I]. [/QUOTE] It's an asinine strawman to say that someone [I]ever[/I] said that Trump won because people were speaking up against him. [QUOTE=glitchvid;51415865]I guess critics of Trump should've just shut the fuck up and he wouldn't won. :downs:[/QUOTE] I guess if you call someone sexist/racist/islamophobes/homophobes/immoral/deplorable enough times he's not gonna care if he or his candidate is being labeled as such.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51427834]If you call people sexist/racist/islamophobes/homophobes/immoral/deplorable for any concern or opinion that's less "progressive" then yeah they might lock themselves in echochambers where they aren't called these things. At they might also vote for someone who's not calling them these names as well. I guess if you call someone sexist/racist/islamophobes/homophobes/immoral/deplorable enough times he's not gonna care if he or his candidate is being labeled as such.[/QUOTE] It's not them intentionally putting themselves into echo chambers, facebook algorithms and the like look at what they like and provide them with more of it. Like even tho I'm a feminist SJW commiecuck I try to watch the videos from the opposite side occasionally when im on youtube but me daring to click a sargon of akkad or thunderfoot video clogs up my recommendations with tons of that shit. Algorithms just doing their thing. Here's a website that demonstrates this: [url]http://graphics.wsj.com/blue-feed-red-feed/[/url] It's a pretty extreme opinion that all Trump supporters are those things, and a pretty shitty opinion too. But it's undeniable that Trump brings those charges upon himself by using his rhetoric in a way to appeal to those sorts of people. People shouldn't quit being mean to the poor poor racists/sexists/islamophobes/etc., but they should be willing to have an actual conversation with the rest of the bulk of Trump supporters consisting of decent but desperate people. And at least on facepunch, they fucking were. People were trying to talk policy but usually what happened was people would just stop posting when their arguments were getting refuted, I could call out names but that'd be distasteful.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51427770]I'm sorry but I refuse to listen to what equates to literal propaganda. Regardless of how correct it is, the very NATURE of it being a slam-series as it is makes me gag. I'll accept what truth it has, but I'm not talking about rights and wrongs here. This isn't about correct or false information. This is about the fact that it's so biased towards one side that it literally does not care about anything the other side has to say Shit like this video is why this country is in the shitter. Trump is guilty of this, so is the entire right wing, and the entire left wing. This need to 'call out' the other side without even pointing at it and going "But also, some of things do indeed work" There are some things I agree with Trump doing, and most things that I don't. But outright slamming and invalidating him doesn't actually make 'the good guys' look better. not only that, but Right wingers will only use this as ammo against left wingers in the exact same manner Leftists do with Alex Jones. Except they won't give a fuck about facts, just the extremism. The series is unironically called "the resistance" for god sake![/QUOTE] You're actually kind of right right. America is so fucked right now because people keep boiling everything down to "right vs left". To paraphrase Stephen Fry, "the world is complicated and there are a lot of people who don't want to believe it". [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJQHakkViPo[/media]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51427778]Honestly pal, judge me however you want, I will never care. The truth is you act like politics is a game, and the losers are just "Sore", they haven't lost anything and never will in your mind. The problem is, Tudd, that's not fucking reality. You have fully substituted your own reality. Feelz before reelz. That's what 2016 is. The year where we stop giving a fuck what's true, and we only do what we "feel" is right. Trump is the literal poster boy for that.[/QUOTE] I am actually really curious which of my posts you think fit such a description that I treat it like a game.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51428568]I am actually really curious which of my posts you think fit such a description that I treat it like a game.[/QUOTE] well the one I quoted and said it to you in the first place is a literal perfect example of how this is a game to you You genuinely get some enjoyment from rustling another persons jimmies, and stymieing their choice of leaders. You made it seem as such in the post. You would rather "Make him look like a tool" and "rustle" his jimmies than you would consider the words he says. And sure there's a whole host of speakers on the right wing that I would rather not listen to, but I take their arguments seriously. You wouldn't take his seriously, and you'd rather take it as "fuel" to fuel your intense dislike of any "left" leaning people I'm a dick, for sure, and I don't communicate things properly all the time, but I wouldn't be enjoying your disappointment that Trump lost had he lost. You're open about your enjoyment of the disappointment of others. Not just your own victory. But their loss too. That makes it very much seem like a game to you.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51428622]That makes it very much seem like a game to you.[/QUOTE] Dude, of course it's a game. There are two teams. Everyone has to pick one. Debates and other important political events are advertised like WWE-style fight nights. The president of the United States is a reality TV show host that sexually assaults women and most of the country doesn't care. Hell, the OTHER guy in the "grab them by the pussy" tape lost his job and he sure as hell isn't getting it back, and he didn't even say anything particularly offensive. He was just 'there'. If you're still taking any of this seriously then I applaud you for your insane amount of patience.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51428199]People shouldn't quit being mean to the poor poor racists/sexists/islamophobes/etc., but they should be willing to have an actual conversation with the rest of the bulk of Trump supporters consisting of decent but desperate people. [/QUOTE] I don't think you should be mean and condescending as fuck when you try to change someone's mind because it's not going to work that way. Ever. Case in point - this election. All the media constantly shitting on Trump, all the stars telling people not to vote Trump, and the entire Hillary's campaign focused on saying how Trump is worse just strengthened people's position. You want to change someone's mind, understand what he means and refute his argument. [QUOTE=thelurker1234;51428199]People were trying to talk policy but usually what happened was people would just stop posting when their arguments were getting refuted, I could call out names but that'd be distasteful.[/QUOTE] They stopped posting because they knew they had no more arguments. Maybe that will make them reevaluate their position some days after that happened. You can't expect a person to publicly (even on the internet) admit that he was wrong and go 180 on his position. Not many people are willing do to that. And I guarantee you that they won't do it if you were a condescending dick to them. [QUOTE=thelurker1234;51428199]It's not them intentionally putting themselves into echo chambers, facebook algorithms and the like look at what they like and provide them with more of it.[/QUOTE] Algorithms are one thing, but imagine this situation. Joe comes to a left leaning forum and says he's worried about migrant crisis and that he doubts they will integrate and might bring some terrorists with them. He doesn't get proven wrong but he gets called a racist islamophobe and that he's a terrible person. So what do you think Joe is going to do? He's gonna go talk to people who won't call him that. On some right leaning or even far right forum. So there's a chance he's gonna go even more right.
As I said: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1538255&p=51228920#post51228920[/url] [img]http://i.imgur.com/W2TX2l1.png[/img] I still believe it's true. This man and his series attempts to light a fire and demonize Trump & Trump supporters thoroughly, which continues to drive a wedge. Our country doesn't need more wedges right now. We don't need riled up passion. We need level-headiness and we need to listen to each other and not treat the other side as like it's the boogieman. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] This man is a fucking hot-headed fear monger. I'd sooner compare him to Trump. Not to mention these fucking clickbait titles. [IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/2ypn6uu.png[/IMG] [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;51415579]Like he made a great point with the wall video, but I feel like I'm watching a [b]liberal alex jones[/b]. It reminds me of my father watching the same same shit, but on the other side of the political spectrum.[/QUOTE] That's exactly what I feel with this dude.
[QUOTE=Wolverunder;51437301]This man is a fucking hot-headed fear monger. I'd sooner compare him to Trump. Not to mention these fucking clickbait titles. [IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/2ypn6uu.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] did you watch the video at all [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] please be honest
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51437614]did you watch the video at all [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] please be honest[/QUOTE] Yes, fully. I've watched a lot of his videos. He comes off as a sensationalist.
[QUOTE=Wolverunder;51437301] [IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/2ypn6uu.png[/IMG] That's exactly what I feel with this dude.[/QUOTE] His videos are very infowars-esque now that you bring it up
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51428622]well the one I quoted and said it to you in the first place is a literal perfect example of how this is a game to you You genuinely get some enjoyment from rustling another persons jimmies, and stymieing their choice of leaders. You made it seem as such in the post. You would rather "Make him look like a tool" and "rustle" his jimmies than you would consider the words he says. And sure there's a whole host of speakers on the right wing that I would rather not listen to, but I take their arguments seriously. You wouldn't take his seriously, and you'd rather take it as "fuel" to fuel your intense dislike of any "left" leaning people I'm a dick, for sure, and I don't communicate things properly all the time, but I wouldn't be enjoying your disappointment that Trump lost had he lost. You're open about your enjoyment of the disappointment of others. Not just your own victory. But their loss too. That makes it very much seem like a game to you.[/QUOTE] Oh I took him seriously, I just know that his assessment is along the same lines of conclusions liberals made that counter-intuitively shot themselves in the foot with this election. It is amazing the guy can make so many of these videos and never actually self-reflect or look at the democratic party and go like, "hmm, maybe this was the actual problem." considering had it been nearly anyone besides Hillary, Trump probably would have lost. I don't treat this like a "game," I just don't have an anal-retentive demeanor to keep my posts PC. I get my point across on a internet gaming forum as I see fit. Psh, I was ready for Trump to lose and move on. The only loss I am taking enjoyment from is people who can't learn how we got to this shitty situation. Like this GQ idiot and the people who don't realize he is a tool on the level of an Alex Jones.
[QUOTE=Wolverunder;51437697]Yes, fully. I've watched a lot of his videos. He comes off as a sensationalist.[/QUOTE] he goes in depth about how the current government can theoretically remove Trump from power if Trump misbehaves It's clickbait but it isn't as bad as you think it is. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sally;51437726]His videos are very infowars-esque now that you bring it up[/QUOTE] do people actually understand what they're saying when they claim that this person is the liberal jones or that this is like infowars do people even know what they say on infowars [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUEy55r49fY[/media] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzNeg9D-EZ4[/media] I can find more memes if you want
Nah, his outburst telling to trump to go to hell with a straight face put the narrative pretty good. But that would be ofcourse implying I was talking about alex jones character
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51437756]he goes in depth about how the current government can theoretically remove Trump from power if Trump misbehaves[/quote] So why is his argument wrong that he is a sensationalist? That situation Keith describes sounds quite sensational [quote]It's clickbait but it isn't as bad as you think it is.[/QUOTE] Let me send you some Milo Yiannopoulos videos and see if, "It's clickbait but it isn't as bad as you think it is." will change your mind too. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51437756] do people actually understand what they're saying when they claim that this person is the liberal jones or that this is like infowars do people even know what they say on infowars [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUEy55r49fY[/media] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzNeg9D-EZ4[/media] I can find more memes if you want[/QUOTE] Well, he is better dressed and has more of a professional voice (but not sexier than Alex's); But when his segment is now called "The Resistance," and he is calling for people to purposely break laws in outrageous numbers, he is pretty easy to mirror to Jones. He just needs to start selling hair gel or supplements now.
What laws are keith calling for people to break? And by the way, sensationalism only counts if it is at the EXPENSE of accuracy and truth. If your argument is still backed up with reason and evidence, it's not sensationalism. It is still technically clickbait, but clickbait isn't really inherently bad. It's impossible to avoid even unless you hate people viewing your content, it's only a problem when it's actively misleading.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51437756]do people actually understand what they're saying when they claim that this person is the liberal jones or that this is like infowars do people even know what they say on infowars[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34dJ7nheBaw[/media]
[QUOTE=Paramud;51438831][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34dJ7nheBaw[/media][/QUOTE] If anything, Alex is infinitely more entertaining in his lunacy.
lmao, people in here saying the series is "one-sided" and "biased" it's not a news show, it's a passionate opinion piece
[QUOTE=Coyoteze;51439224]lmao, people in here saying the series is "one-sided" and "biased" it's not a news show, it's a passionate opinion piece[/QUOTE] So is infowars? I don't know what argument you're trying to make here but you're doing it for infowars as well.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51439234]So is infowars? I don't know what argument you're trying to make here but you're doing it for infowars as well.[/QUOTE] i never said it wasn't??
[QUOTE=Tudd;51437796]So why is his argument wrong that he is a sensationalist? That situation Keith describes sounds quite sensational[/quote] If what Keith says is true, then what he says isn't sensationalist at all. If Trump acts like he can't run this country (The definition is actually much more vague than that), then Trump can get booted. [QUOTE=Tudd;51437796]Let me send you some Milo Yiannopoulos videos and see if, "It's clickbait but it isn't as bad as you think it is." will change your mind too.[/quote] Go ahead. You know what I'll say? I wouldn't care that it's clickbait because there are much more things to criticize Milo on than "Wah it's clickbait!" [QUOTE=Tudd;51437796]Well, he is better dressed and has more of a professional voice (but not sexier than Alex's); He just needs to start selling hair gel or supplements now.[/QUOTE] Can you at least admit you're trolling at this point because your attempt to dodge everything that's terrible about Alex Jones is actually disgusting. "Well, he is better dressed and has more of a professional voice" fucking incredible dude. The only bad thing about Keith Olbermann is that he has a strong, controlled, hatred towards Trump and some of his supporters, and likes to express it. Keith Olbermann doesn't spread lies, misinformation, baseless conspiracy theories, and anti-homosexual propaganda. [QUOTE=Tudd;51437796]But when his segment is now called "The Resistance," and he is calling for people to purposely break laws in outrageous numbers, he is pretty easy to mirror to Jones.[/quote] What laws? [editline]28th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Coyoteze;51439238]i never said it wasn't??[/QUOTE] No you see, if you defend aspects of one program, it means that you're a total hypocrite for disliking that other program that has those same aspects! This applies even if you haven't disliked that program in the first place and/or the reasons why you hate that other program have nothing to do with those aspects!
[QUOTE=Coyoteze;51439238]i never said it wasn't??[/QUOTE] Explain your argument please because for me what you said looks like you are saying that it's so wrong to criticize opinion pieces for being biased and one-sided that it's funny. And that opinion pieces can't be criticized on that angle. [editline]28th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51439239]No you see, if you defend aspects of one program, it means that you're a total hypocrite for disliking that other program that has those same aspects! This applies even if you haven't disliked that program in the first place and/or the reasons why you hate that other program have nothing to do with those aspects![/QUOTE] Grow up.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51439283]Explain your argument please because for me what you said looks like you are saying that it's so wrong to criticize opinion pieces for being biased and one-sided that it's funny. And that opinion pieces can't be criticized on that angle.[/QUOTE] that is my point, yes? opinions are inherently biased bias in news & media is one thing, but expecting an opinion piece [I]not [/I]to be biased is laughable [editline]28th November 2016[/editline] both alex jones and keith olbermann are biased in their presentation, but in the end these are their opinions and these are the ways they choose to present them, as much of an echo chamber as it may very well be [editline]28th November 2016[/editline] that said, olbermann does at least factcheck (with no obligation to do so) and writes his speeches before going on camera, which is more than you can say for jones :^)
[QUOTE=Coyoteze;51439305]that is my point, yes? opinions are inherently biased bias in news & media is one thing, but expecting an opinion piece [I]not [/I]to be biased is laughable[/QUOTE] Okay so if I went to google, took some statistics where men have it worse than women, ignore all the statistics where women have it worse and then I would make an [I]opinion piece[/I] on how men are being systemically discriminated against in western society and we live in a matriarchy and we have to do something about it, I couldn't be criticized on being biased and one-sided, and consequently proven WRONG because of that? Only news outlets can be called out on being biased for picking and chosing their evidence? That's what's laughable here. It's one thing to come to different conclusions - that's [I]subjective[/I], something you are calling [I]biased[/I] for some reason and it's something entirely different to be biased and pick and chose evidence to support your claim while ignoring evidence that disproves your argument. If you're doing the latter, it's perfectly fine to call you out on being one-sided and biased even if you're not a news outlet. [editline]28th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Coyoteze;51439305]that said, olbermann does at least factcheck [B](with no obligation to do so)[/B][/QUOTE] He has no [B]obligation [/B]to do it. Nobody's saying [B]he has to[/B] do it. But if he doesn't do it, and present evidence only from one side he can be criticized for it and consequently proven wrong because of that. Same exact way we can call out alex jones for pulling his "facts" out of his ass and being wrong. [QUOTE=Coyoteze;51439305] and writes his speeches before going on camera, which is more than you can say for jones :^)[/QUOTE] Am I supposed to defend alex jones now or what?
in hindsight I might've had bias and subjective mixed up lol, my bad but either way, calling people out for being idiotic and uninformed is always fine, but people act like it's such a huge shocker that people are biased in opinion pieces and give it the same treatment as if it [I]were[/I] legitimate news, and that bugs me
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51439283]Grow up.[/QUOTE] I had every right to make a joke. No mercy for people who strawman. And unfortunately you're [I]still[/I] strawmanning. [quote] [QUOTE=Coyoteze;51439224]lmao, people in here saying the series is "one-sided" and "biased" it's not a news show, it's a passionate opinion piece[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;51439234]So is infowars? I don't know what argument you're trying to make here but you're doing it for infowars as well.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Coyoteze;51439238]i never said it wasn't??[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;51439283]Explain your argument please because for me what you said looks like you are saying that it's so wrong to criticize opinion pieces for being biased and one-sided that it's funny. And that opinion pieces can't be criticized on that angle.[/QUOTE] [/quote] How did you transform his argument from "One sided and biased opinion pieces aren't an issue in the context of Keith Olbermann's webseries. It's funny that people think otherwise." to "Infowars is terrible for being one sided and biased, but to complain about a series being one sided and biased is wrong. And also they can't be criticized for that."
Tbh personally I compared this guy to alex jones because I didn't know who else to compare to but I feel thats unfair because 1. Keith has actual points and isn't just shitting out of his ass the entire time 2. Keith isn't an actual diagnose-able cunt 3. Alex Jones uses legitimate fear mongering and hate of the government as a tool of power. Literally the definition of propaganda machine. 4. Keith just thinks Trump is a douche and that's it.
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