[QUOTE=sp00ks;25815400]Sounds like bullshit.
Look at SARS. That shit spread through the fucking air and we got that under control in like a month.[/QUOTE]
SARS victims didn't seek out and start infecting others, and everyone who dies in TWD gets up as a zombie.
[QUOTE=Occlusion;25815050]There was a big simulation set up a while ago that showed what would happen in a bite only zombie type case, it spread almost as quickly.[/QUOTE]
Walking zombies? You'd have to have tens of thousands initial zombies for any army not being able to stop them. In reality slow zombies couldn't even take a town unless the virus was airborne, or all dead people rose to life.
Never read the comics, saw the first episode today and I liked it. A lot.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;25815400]Sounds like bullshit.
Look at SARS. That shit spread through the fucking air and we got that under control in like a month.[/QUOTE]
SARS also only had a 8% mortality rate.
And about the simulation, it was based in a city. Washington, I think.
You could change the settings, 1 shambling zombie evolved into tens of thousands in a few hours.
[editline]2nd November 2010[/editline]
Here is said simulation.
[url]http://www.class3outbreak.com/zombie-outbreak-simulator/[/url]
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;25815928]SARS also only had a 8% mortality rate.
And about the simulation, it was based in a city. Washington, I think.
You could change the settings, 1 shambling zombie evolved into tens of thousands in a few hours.
[editline]2nd November 2010[/editline]
Here is said simulation.
[url]http://www.class3outbreak.com/zombie-outbreak-simulator/[/url][/QUOTE]
That simulation isn't realistic in any manner. Civilians would hardly be spread around like that.
You're right. They would be more clumped together.
[editline]2nd November 2010[/editline]
Also, here is the actual report conducted by canadian scientists.
[url]http://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/rsmith43/Zombies.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=Occlusion;25815050]There was a big simulation set up a while ago that showed what would happen in a bite only zombie type case, it spread almost as quickly.[/QUOTE]
Umm no.
1. It would take any known pathogen at least three days to what a zombie infection is supposed to do. Anything faster would be 100% lethal, and thus simply an epidemic.
2. Modern conventions would start out with static quarantine.
3. All these nice helpful governments would stop being nice and helpful and start executing people indiscriminately wholesale when things started going critical. History would say it was all a cruel horrible mess, but historians would still be around to complain about it.
4. Whilst all these zombies were busy going through rigor mortis, they would ridiculously easy to kill for good.
5. A disease with 80% mortality still leaves billions of people left after it's done its course.
If everyone who dies becomes a zombie then the only way to 'win' is to kill everyone. That's because no matter how badass your tactics and how safe your fortress, any place with humans WILL have zombies, it's only a matter of when.
If the world had 10 billion people and 80% were killed by it, yeah you'd have 'billions' left(2 billion). A world with less than 10 billion people would not have billions left.
The disease of course would have a 100% mortality rate. Therefore #1 is gone.
2. Static quarantine would fail. People would not know what they would be dealing with. Hospitals would help infection spread. And as people went to churches to pray, zombies would go there and eat them too.
Infected people will flee the area, and spread it across the country.
3. Nobody would start executing indiscriminately. The country would be scrutinized by the world community for genocide, as nobody would realize the zombies were zombies.
4. There is a reason headshots are spectacular. They are the hardest shots to make. Also, soldiers and police officers are trained to shoot for the center of mass.
Imagine, a bloody, moaning person coming towards you. You shoot it several times in the chest, it doesn't even flinch. You would become nervous and shaky. Headshots would be nigh impossible.
5. Only 2.4 billion to be exact. And seeing as this isn't any kind of virus ever seen before, it simply can't run its course.
Governments would collapse, mass rioting would leave thousands dead. Civil war, rampant, unchecked crime. Millions across the world would die, before ever being bitten by a zombie.
Then you have the millions of zombies everywhere, constantly infecting people.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;25816930]If everyone who dies becomes a zombie then the only way to 'win' is to kill everyone. That's because no matter how badass your tactics and how safe your fortress, any place with humans WILL have zombies, it's only a matter of when.
If the world had 10 billion people and 80% were killed by it, yeah you'd have 'billions' left(2 billion). A world with less than 10 billion people would not have billions left.[/QUOTE]
Max Brooks might write bullshit books but the Government shelters in World War Z make sense. They were well designed.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;25816997]The disease of course would have a 100% mortality rate. Therefore #1 is gone.
2. Static quarantine would fail. People would not know what they would be dealing with. Hospitals would help infection spread. And as people went to churches to pray, zombies would go there and eat them too.
Infected people will flee the area, and spread it across the country.
3. Nobody would start executing indiscriminately. The country would be scrutinized by the world community for genocide, as nobody would realize the zombies were zombies.
4. There is a reason headshots are spectacular. They are the hardest shots to make. Also, soldiers and police officers are trained to shoot for the center of mass.
Imagine, a bloody, moaning person coming towards you. You shoot it several times in the chest, it doesn't even flinch. You would become nervous and shaky. Headshots would be nigh impossible.
5. Only 2.4 billion to be exact. And seeing as this isn't any kind of virus ever seen before, it simply can't run its course.
Governments would collapse, mass rioting would leave thousands dead. Civil war, rampant, unchecked crime. Millions across the world would die, before ever being bitten by a zombie.
Then you have the millions of zombies everywhere, constantly infecting people.[/QUOTE]
It would never get that far. Believe what you will, governments are not that stupid to just keep thinking "hmm I wonder what this disease is it keeps reanimating bodies and the bodies only die of headshots". While they might not be acknowledged as zombies, a few main traits of the infected would become very clear in the first few days. You simply need to use heavy duty explosives, high ground, and controlled fire to bring down a horde.
Fifty soldiers on a secure rooftop with rifles and reliable resupply can take out tens of thousands of zombies.
You are grossly overestimating the power of military.
50 men on a rooftop would be lucky to kill a hundred or so zombies. Soldiers are not trained to shoot for the head, and no human being on earth will be able to stand the mental shock of shooting somebody to bits and them still coming at you.
So, over a couple days, with the zombies having no way of reaching them, you think you would get only 100 kills with 50 soldiers?
That's ridiculous.
I'm talking of holding a very secure entrenched position. They could easily attract all zombies to cluster around, throw down grenades, fire claymores downwards, or just easily headshot them from there. It would be a slaughter, and the victory would go to the humans.
You're the one grossly underestimating them.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;25815400]Sounds like bullshit.
Look at SARS. That shit spread through the fucking air and we got that under control in like a month.[/QUOTE]
The virus in TWD doesn't show any symptoms until you die- unless you get bit, of course.
"Alright, we've trained you for years to shoot center of mass, and you've gotten really good at it, and you do it subconsciously. Now shoot for the head"
Soldier can't just say alright and then be perfect. Not only have they been trained a completely opposite way, the head the one of the parts of your body that moves the most, as well as being a smaller target.
And the government most definitely would collapse.
Basically, here's an altered scenario:
There's a really bad disease/illness going around, and it's pretty infectious. The virus spreads a bit, and people start getting worried. Some people will start avoiding contact with other people as the virus spreads. As the virus keeps spreading faster and faster, more and more people are staying home, not going to their jobs. No one is around deliver mail or supplies, work power stations, internet servers, phone lines, or grocery stores. The stores that do have people working them will run out of supplies (such as food) because everyone wants supplies so they can stay at home, but no one is delivering new supplies. Now there is a lack of food and modern 'necessities' in areas, and people start acting differently. People start stealing from their neighbors to feed their kids, perhaps even using violence.
There is very little the government could do to stop individual pieces of a disaster. I mean, what are they going to do? Tell them to go to work or else? People will be fearing death, they won't give a shit what the government wants.
Plus, if the government tries to keep with it's past, and have everything be bureaucratic, everything will be slowed. I mean, if you even look at small disasters, they take a shitload of time to help. Hurricane Katrina is the one I'm most familiar with, and if you look at that, many people died from lack of water or food because the government couldn't get to them in time.
The government has no real power without the people, and when all the people are hiding in their homes, the government is useless.
Now, add zombies to that? No one would be going fucking anywhere. Even a very very small outbreak would have massive consequences everywhere (tell me, if you heard of a zombie outbreak, you would stock up on supplies, weapons, etc and stay where it's safe, right? So will millions of other people).
I had it recorded on my DVR and finally got to watch it today. The show looks pretty good but it kind of made me mad when [sp] the horse got eaten alive... poor horse..[/sp]
Also, is the series going to be watchable on the internet(not youtube...)?
It's only a matter of time till the zombie shit gets fucked like what Twilight did to fucking Vampires.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;25816997]The disease of course would have a 100% mortality rate. Therefore #1 is gone.
2. Static quarantine would fail. People would not know what they would be dealing with. Hospitals would help infection spread. And as people went to churches to pray, zombies would go there and eat them too.
Infected people will flee the area, and spread it across the country.
3. Nobody would start executing indiscriminately. The country would be scrutinized by the world community for genocide, as nobody would realize the zombies were zombies.
4. There is a reason headshots are spectacular. They are the hardest shots to make. Also, soldiers and police officers are trained to shoot for the center of mass.
Imagine, a bloody, moaning person coming towards you. You shoot it several times in the chest, it doesn't even flinch. You would become nervous and shaky. Headshots would be nigh impossible.
5. Only 2.4 billion to be exact. And seeing as this isn't any kind of virus ever seen before, it simply can't run its course.
Governments would collapse, mass rioting would leave thousands dead. Civil war, rampant, unchecked crime. Millions across the world would die, before ever being bitten by a zombie.
Then you have the millions of zombies everywhere, constantly infecting people.[/QUOTE]
Again you're relying on fiction to supercede what actually happens, which doesn't happen, you're also grossly mis-estimating the ability for humans beings to kill the fuck out of anything they deem worthy of extermination. NO virus has the ability to create an ANYTHING in minutes, and any toxin that does result in tissue damage, zombies aren't particularly scary if they can't get up anymore and menace you, secondly there are plenty of weapons that remove the head by removing the entire fucking zombie. There are plenty of others ways to remove the human race from existence without relying on shambly undead who eventually ROT AWAY. Humans who simply clamp off for a couple of months can outlast the dread apocalypse, much less a couple of years.
[sp]Even as the WD shows, people don't stop having kids even after being infected. If there's anything the human race is awesome at, it's having way too fucking many kids way too fast; and point of fact being the human race has already survived two ELEs that were way more destructive than groany dead people.[/sp]
The horror borne from zombies is that of complete alienation and isolation. If you're positing an end of the world scenario zombies are pretty low on the list.
[QUOTE=henrietta;25822257]It's only a matter of time till the zombie shit gets fucked like what Twilight did to fucking Vampires.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how anything flesh eating and covered in gore would appeal to a 12 year old girl but w/e.
I also don't think humans would kiss and start screwing zombies.... the story wouldn't last long if it was like that.
[QUOTE=27X;25822501]Again you're relying on fiction to supercede what actually happens, which doesn't happen, you're also grossly mis-estimating the ability for humans beings to kill the fuck out of anything they deem worthy of extermination. NO virus has the ability to create an ANYTHING in minutes, and any toxin that does result in tissue damage, zombies aren't particularly scary if they can't get up anymore and menace you, secondly there are plenty of weapons that remove the head by removing the entire fucking zombie. There are plenty of others ways to remove the human race from existence without relying on shambly undead who eventually ROT AWAY. Humans who simply clamp off for a couple of months can outlast the dread apocalypse, much less a couple of years.
[sp]Even as the WD shows, people don't stop having kids even after being infected. If there's anything the human race is awesome at, it's having way too fucking many kids way too fast; and point of fact being the human race has already survived two ELEs that were way more destructive than groany dead people.[/sp]
The horror borne from zombies is that of complete alienation and isolation. If you're positing an end of the world scenario zombies are pretty low on the list.[/QUOTE]
I thought we were using a fictional context to explain this.
Zombies don't stand a chance in the real world. But they would fuck up the world pretty bad in terms of governments collapsing and shit because of what people said before, fear of other people.
[QUOTE=Newbienice99;25821410]"Alright, we've trained you for years to shoot center of mass, and you've gotten really good at it, and you do it subconsciously. Now shoot for the head"
Soldier can't just say alright and then be perfect. Not only have they been trained a completely opposite way, the head the one of the parts of your body that moves the most, as well as being a smaller target[/quote]
True, they wouldn't be able to do it at first. But when you're in a completely secure location with all the time in the world, firing DOWNWARDS on a crowd, it's rather easy to score headshots. With zombies you hardly need to act in a split second, so you pretty much can take your time aiming.
[QUOTE=Newbienice99;25821410]
And the government most definitely would collapse.
Basically, here's an altered scenario:
There's a really bad disease/illness going around, and it's pretty infectious. The virus spreads a bit, and people start getting worried. Some people will start avoiding contact with other people as the virus spreads. As the virus keeps spreading faster and faster, more and more people are staying home, not going to their jobs. No one is around deliver mail or supplies, work power stations, internet servers, phone lines, or grocery stores. The stores that do have people working them will run out of supplies (such as food) because everyone wants supplies so they can stay at home, but no one is delivering new supplies. Now there is a lack of food and modern 'necessities' in areas, and people start acting differently. People start stealing from their neighbors to feed their kids, perhaps even using violence.
There is very little the government could do to stop individual pieces of a disaster. I mean, what are they going to do? Tell them to go to work or else? People will be fearing death, they won't give a shit what the government wants.
Plus, if the government tries to keep with it's past, and have everything be bureaucratic, everything will be slowed. I mean, if you even look at small disasters, they take a shitload of time to help. Hurricane Katrina is the one I'm most familiar with, and if you look at that, many people died from lack of water or food because the government couldn't get to them in time.
The government has no real power without the people, and when all the people are hiding in their homes, the government is useless.
Now, add zombies to that? No one would be going fucking anywhere. Even a very very small outbreak would have massive consequences everywhere (tell me, if you heard of a zombie outbreak, you would stock up on supplies, weapons, etc and stay where it's safe, right? So will millions of other people).[/QUOTE]
You're talking of the collapse of civil order, not the collapse of government. National Guard would see lots of defection, yes. The government is still there, and they still control the armed forces. Guard may not be very available, but you still have your full-time paid army, air force, and navy. With those assets you can still do very much damage against the main enemy.
This thread has amused me. Pretty angry debate over fictional zombie apocalypses.
I really enjoy the show and have read some of the comics so I am looking forward to seeing more.
Issue #1 compared to Episode #1 was very accurate and the changed that were made are great.
Hardly an angry debate, no name-calling or anything yet. Just a debate.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;25825846]Hardly an angry debate, no name-calling or anything yet. Just a debate.[/QUOTE]
Shut it.
Zombie sympathizer!
What? I'm not the zombie sympathizer here :colbert:
[QUOTE=Re-y-tard;25815625]Never read the comics, saw the first episode today and I liked it. A lot.[/QUOTE]
Go read the books. And pay for them, they're worth it.
[QUOTE=henrietta;25822257]It's only a matter of time till the zombie shit gets fucked like what Twilight did to fucking Vampires.[/QUOTE]
Not until they make the zombies sparkle and have feelings, which wouldn't any sense. Right? RIGHT?
What makes you people think zombies would actually pose a serious threat?
First of all, zombies are dead. It means they are rotting, decomposing, as they move.
(Much like the crawling torso of a woman zombie, if our sheriff guy hadn't shot her, she would've just rotted half-way there wherever she was crawling to)
Then, how fast would zombies be? Could the average person out run a zombie? Possibly.
Can zombies even run? If they have legs, and are some-what fresh, there is no reason to assume zombies couldn't run. So obviously elderly people would be in danger.
Really depends how badly injured the zombie is, but there is no reason why zombies couldn't run, assuming they still had their legs.
Also, I was wondering how does the 1 zombie turn into a million zombies? It just doesn't add up.
And like in this series, the zombies were mindlessly just looking for food. If a lone human stumbled across a pack of cougars, human would probably lose, same would go for a lone zombie. So, predator animals pose a threat to zombies as well.
I can't see how zombies could survive. By surviving, I mean surviving long enough to get all people infected, turned into zombies and rot away altogether.
[editline]3rd November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;25818029]You are grossly overestimating the power of military.
50 men on a rooftop would be lucky to kill a hundred or so zombies. Soldiers are not trained to shoot for the head, and no human being on earth will be able to stand the mental shock of shooting somebody to bits and them still coming at you.[/QUOTE]
I know this is silly to speculate how each of us would do against zombies, but a packed Mac10 would make me feel very safe. And I wouldn't be afraid to use it, then again I have never touched a real gun but I suppose they aren't that hard to figure out.
Even if we assume that zombie are possible, it's just like they do not recept pain and only have one urge, other then that their body would still function like any other, so if a part is destroyed, it doesnt work anymore.
Walking is very complex movement, I'm not sure if Zombies would even be able to do that, but who cares.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;25830448]Even if we assume that zombie are possible, it's just like they do not recept pain and only have one urge, other then that their body would still function like any other, so if a part is destroyed, it doesnt work anymore.[/QUOTE]
Arguing realism over this is stupid. To get a decent discussion on the topic we have to assume they are reanimated and kept alive by some sort of magic. They decompose slightly, but never to the point where they can't move anymore.
Movie rules etc.
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