Kurzgesagt: Is the European Union Worth It Or Should We End It? - General

[QUOTE=Saturn V;52109430]you keep worrying about how others will undermine your culture but here you are doing the very same thing to others that is extremely insulting[/QUOTE] These are facts, if you go from Seattle to Miami, you would still be understood and likely still watch the same TV shows. If you go the same distance in Europe, you go from Portugal to Russia or Finland. [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Big Bang;52109460]You have yet to show literally one example of the EU affecting culture. It's been nearly 10 pages and you have yet to show [I]one[/I] fucking concrete example of the EU causing the death of any European culture.[/QUOTE] I never argued that, why do you think I have argued that. Seriously, you guys are just seeing what you want to see in my arguments. Not what I actually say. If I was arguing that, of course I would have come with an example, but it was never my point that it's happening right now. Just that it can happen, that some seemed to support that and that I will oppose that.

[QUOTE=RB33;52109383]No, but when you like something, you want to keep it. It doesn't matter if it will be gone after your lifetime, you still want to stick with it. Is is that strange?[/QUOTE] "the thought of things being different scares me" you must be a very exciting person [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] [quote]I never argued that, why do you think I have argued that. Seriously, you guys are just seeing what you want to see in my arguments. Not what I actually say. If I was arguing that, of course I would have come with an example, but it was never my point that it's happening right now. Just that it can happen, that some seemed to support that and that I will oppose that.[/quote] have you conisdered the thought that you're just terrible at arguing i have literally no idea what your point is

[QUOTE=RB33;52109465]These are facts, if you go from Seattle to Miami, you would still be understood and likely still watch the same TV shows. If you go the same distance in Europe, you go from Portugal to Russia or Finland. [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] I never argued that, why do you think I have argued that. Seriously, you guys are just seeing what you want to see in my arguments. Not what I actually say. If I was arguing that, of course I would have come with an example, but it was never my point that it's happening right now. Just that it can happen, that some seemed to support that and that I will oppose that.[/QUOTE] damn i haven't seen such extreme undermining in a loong while

[QUOTE=RB33;52109465] I never argued that, why do you think I have argued that. Seriously, you guys are just seeing what you want to see in my arguments. Not what I actually say. If I was arguing that, of course I would have come with an example, but it was never my point that it's happening right now. Just that it can happen, that some seemed to support that and that I will oppose that.[/QUOTE] Because you're arguing for the dissolution of the EU [I]to preserve culture[/I], you did this on your previous post. [quote][decentralize] the EU, so that we can keep our cultures.[/quote] Has that ever even fucking happened? Has the EU in any way affected culture? Was the discrimination of the Sami done by the EU? Was it done by other countries outside of Scandinavia?

[QUOTE=Big Bang;52109494]Was the discrimination of the Sami done by the EU? Was it done by other countries outside of Scandinavia?[/QUOTE] yeah wasnt it the very government of sweden that forcibly sterilized samis?

[QUOTE=RB33;52109383]No, but when you like something, you want to keep it. It doesn't matter if it will be gone after your lifetime, you still want to stick with it. Is is that strange?[/QUOTE] But nobody is stopping you. Just look at retrocomputing. It's still going strong despite the fact that most of the world has moved on. Wanting to keep something isn't strange. What's strange is wanting everyone to to keep it despite nobody else wanting to. Nobody is stopping you from forming your own group who gets together in folkdräkt and dances hambo. Shit like that happens where I live every second year (in Danish of course)

[QUOTE=Big Bang;52109494]Because you're arguing for the dissolution of the EU [I]to preserve culture[/I], you did this on your previous post. Has that ever even fucking happened? Has the EU in any way affected culture? Was the discrimination of the Sami done by the EU? Was it done by other countries outside of Scandinavia?[/QUOTE] You seem to have ignored the 'rather': [QUOTE]I [B]rather[/B] we decentralized the EU, so that we can keep our cultures.[/QUOTE] In the case, [B]if[/B] the EU started to working against culture. Dissolution is [B]not[/B] the same thing as decentralization either. Now you're even mixing arguments like they all have to be related to the EU.

[QUOTE=RB33;52109532]You seem to have ignored the 'rather': In the case, if the EU started to working against culture. Dissolution is [B]not[/B] the same thing as decentralization either. Now you're even mixing arguments like they all have to be related to the EU.[/QUOTE] What culture did the EU work against?

[QUOTE=gokiyono;52109520]But nobody is stopping you. Just look at retrocomputing. It's still going strong despite the fact that most of the world has moved on. Wanting to keep something isn't strange. What's strange is wanting everyone to to keep it despite nobody else wanting to. Nobody is stopping you from forming your own group who gets together in folkdräkt and dances hambo. Shit like that happens where I live every second year (in Danish of course)[/QUOTE] Yes, but where is this "despite nobody else wanting to" coming from, where's the evidence for that? [QUOTE=gokiyono;52109535]What culture did the EU work against?[/QUOTE] Are you seriously trolling me right now, the point of the post was telling you that it wasn't.

[QUOTE=RB33;52109536]Yes, but where is this "despite nobody else wanting to" coming from, where's the evidence for that?[/QUOTE] The evidence is that whatever part of the culture you are trying to keep is dying. Now keep in mind that 'nobody' in this case means 'not many people'

[QUOTE=gokiyono;52109545]The evidence is that whatever part of the culture you are trying to keep is dying. Now keep in mind that 'nobody' in this case means 'not many people'[/QUOTE] Like I have said, it can be due that it's being forgotten, not by choice but by different priorites and changes. That's why we should remind people that it's here, come and take part while it still exist, before it's too late and you regret it. Other cases could be because of discrimination in the past, that have forcefully removed people's interest in it or be punished.

[QUOTE=RB33;52109559]Like I have said, it can be due that it's being forgotten, not by choice but by different priorites and changes. That's why we should remind people that it's here, come and take part while it still exist, before it's too late and you regret it. Other cases could be because of discrimination in the past, that have forcefully removed people's interest in it or be punished.[/QUOTE] So you really have no concept of the idea that people might know, and just not care, and you refuse to accept that as an explanation so you, as far as I can tell are the cultural fascist you're afraid of [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;52109536]Yes, but where is this "despite nobody else wanting to" coming from, where's the evidence for that? Are you seriously trolling me right now, the point of the post was telling you that it wasn't.[/QUOTE] Where is [B]YOUR[/B] evidence to the contrary that people are just fucking ignorant fools

[QUOTE=Saturn V;52109496]yeah wasnt it the very government of sweden that forcibly sterilized samis?[/QUOTE] Yes it was, not just samis, gays and mentally ill people aswell as far as I know, and this stopped happening after the 60s or so. [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;52109559]Like I have said, it can be due that it's being forgotten, not by choice but by different priorites and changes. That's why we should remind people that it's here, come and take part while it still exist, before it's too late and you regret it. Other cases could be because of discrimination in the past, that have forcefully removed people's interest in it or be punished.[/QUOTE] It's great that you enjoy your culture, but it's like you want to force us to stay the same as we are now forever. I want to stop poverty and make the world better, and I'll appreciate the cultures that evolve out of that.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52109582]So you really have no concept of the idea that people might know, and just not care, and you refuse to accept that as an explanation so you, as far as I can tell are the cultural fascist you're afraid of[/QUOTE] And you have no concept that people might still be interested in the culture. You don't have a monopoly of your version being right. [QUOTE][editline]15th April 2017[/editline] Where is [B]YOUR[/B] evidence to the contrary that people are just fucking ignorant fools[/QUOTE] Are you calling people "fucking ignorant fools" for caring about culture, not everyone have to be as apathetic as you about culture, can you understand that or not?

[QUOTE=RB33;52109532]In the case, [B]if[/B] the EU started to working against culture. Dissolution is [B]not[/B] the same thing as decentralization either. Now you're even mixing arguments like they all have to be related to the EU.[/QUOTE] The title of this thread is [quote]Kurzgesagt: Is the European Union Worth It Or Should We End It?[/quote] You're the only person here arguing that the existence of the EU has affected culture. Everyone has told you that it's unrelated, and the idea of pan-Europeanism precedes it. Now you're telling me you're arguing a complete hypothetical, and the EU hasn't affected European culture, but it [I]could[/I] and that's an argument to change it?

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52109604]It's great that you enjoy your culture, but it's like you want to force us to stay the same as we are now forever. I want to stop poverty and make the world better, and I'll appreciate the cultures that evolve out of that.[/QUOTE] We have evolved out of that and we have still kept lots of traditions or doesn't Sweden count or something? When have I ever said I want to force people, I want to teach them about it and let them make their own choices, but apparently i'm forcing people for doing that. It's no more forcing that having them learn math as I said before.

[QUOTE=RB33;52109614]And you have no concept that people might still be interested in the culture. You don't have a monopoly of your version being right. Are you calling people "fucking ignorant fools" for caring about culture, not everyone have to be as apathetic as you about culture, can you understand that or not?[/QUOTE] I never even said no one cares I'm saying your view that they do care but just are ignorant is as assumptive as a view can possibly be You have problems with reading my man [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;52109623]We have evolved out of that and we have still kept lots of traditions or don't Sweden count or something? When have I ever said I want to force people, I want to teach them about and let them make their own choice, but apparently i'm forcing people for doing that. No more forcing that having them learn about math as I said before.[/QUOTE] Every time the "choice" has come up you get belligerent at the concept people might choose differently than you

Then what are you even here arguing about, nobody wants to take your culture away or stop you from teaching others about it. Go do it, make your dreams come true, man.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52109630]I never even said no one cares I'm saying your view that they do care but just are ignorant is as assumptive as a view can possibly be You have problems with reading my man [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] Every time the "choice" has come up you get belligerent at the concept people might choose differently than you[/QUOTE] And you don't when I have to repeat myself 5 times and you still think i've said and stand for things i don't. I'm not saying everyone cares, I want to try to make them care, not all, maybe no one will be convinced, that's life. But here are you guys assuming that people won't even give a shit, if I tried. How much do you know about minority culture and traditions and the people's diminishing connection to it?

[QUOTE=RB33;52109652]And you don't when I have to repeat myself 5 times and you still think i've said and stand for things i don't. I'm not saying everyone cares, I want to try to make them care, not all, maybe no one will be convinced, that's life. But here are you guys assuming that people won't even give a shit, if I tried. How much do you know about minority culture and traditions and the people's diminishing connection to it?[/QUOTE] Who said they wouldn't? Care to point that out? Care to find where we collectively said "No one will care" or would you like to refer to the point where it was said "If you [B]FORCE[/B] it"? No? Jesus fucking christ.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;52109618]The title of this thread is You're the only person here arguing that the existence of the EU has affected culture. Everyone has told you that it's unrelated, and the idea of pan-Europeanism precedes it. Now you're telling me you're arguing a complete hypothetical, and the EU hasn't affected European culture, but it [I]could[/I] and that's an argument to change it?[/QUOTE] It's a fact, because the more people interact, the easier things are to change, culture/ideas spread as you guys said yourselves. The EU is something that increases interaction between Europeans. It's an argument to change the EU if it starts intentionally diminishing local culture. But I think the EU should be more decentralized anyway, as a non-cultural political stance.

[QUOTE=RB33;52109680]It's a fact, because the more people interact, the easier things are to change, culture/ideas spread as you guys said yourselves. The EU is something that increases interaction between Europeans. It's an argument to change the EU if they starts intentionally diminishing local culture. But I think the EU should be more decentralized anyway, as a non-cultural politcal stance.[/QUOTE] why are you so against people mixing with each other? seriously you kinda make me wanna throw up with how you just want to segregate people based on bullshit arbitrary borders in the name of "culture"

[QUOTE=RB33;52109680]It's a fact, because the more people interact, the easier things are to change, culture/ideas spread as you guys said yourselves. The EU is something that increases interaction between Europeans. It's an argument to change the EU if it starts intentionally diminishing local culture. But I think the EU should be more decentralized anyway, as a non-cultural politcal stance.[/QUOTE] Then who will take on the big corporations like google and microsoft? And who will stand against the spreading influence of Putin's Russia? Who will make sure that climate change is taken seriously by major parties in the issue? [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] You're arguing against "change" in culture but you pretend that it's the same as "destruction" of culture.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52109678]Who said they wouldn't? Care to point that out? Care to find where we collectively said "No one will care" or would you like to refer to the point where it was said "If you [B]FORCE[/B] it"? No? Jesus fucking christ.[/QUOTE] You have kept making the theoretical argument that no ones cares and haven't left any possibility open that they might accept it voluntary. Was the argument to counteract that you thought I believed that everyone will always gladly accept what I want? I never believed and said that either, we have all just assumed each others stances at this point. [QUOTE=Saturn V;52109681]why are you so against people mixing with each other? seriously you kinda make me wanna throw up with how you just want to segregate people based on bullshit arbitrary borders in the name of "culture"[/QUOTE] And when did I ever argue for segregation, closed borders or whatever you're getting at now? If you're going to say that, you should have something to back it up.

[QUOTE=RB33;52109680]It's a fact, because the more people interact, the easier things are to change, culture/ideas spread as you guys said yourselves. The EU is something that increases interaction between Europeans. It's an argument to change the EU if it starts intentionally diminishing local culture. But I think the EU should be more decentralized anyway, as a non-cultural political stance.[/QUOTE] Ok, so you want Swedes to not interact with Germans then?

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52109689]Then who will take on the big corporations like google and microsoft? And who will stand against the spreading influence of Putin's Russia? Who will make sure that climate change is taken seriously by major parties in the issue? [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] You're arguing against "change" in culture but you pretend that it's the same as "destruction" of culture.[/QUOTE] As an example, Roman culture is no longer alive. Maybe, not destroyed but dead as a culture. Can I delay change and keep the parts I like for longer, I will do so. As have people always done as much as changing. Keep the parts of the EU that fights off threats to Europe, business regulation, preferably a united and strong foreign and environmental policy. [editline]15th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Big Bang;52109738]Ok, so you want Swedes to not interact with Germans then?[/QUOTE] As in now or historically?

[QUOTE=RB33;52109772]As in now or historically?[/QUOTE] As in [quote]It's a fact, because the more people interact, the easier things are to change, culture/ideas spread as you guys said yourselves. The EU is something that increases interaction between Europeans. [/quote] Answer yourself, does Germans interacting with Swedes diminish Swedish culture? Please give a straight answer, I'm sick of you dancing around every single direct question.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;52109792]As in Answer yourself, does Germans interacting with Swedes diminish Swedish culture? Please give a straight answer, I'm sick of you dancing around every single direct question.[/QUOTE] If it pushes away local culture, then the answer is always yes. I'm grateful for the Low German contributions to our culture, but Low German itself is on the decline. As it's being considered just a dialect and not it's own regional language.

[QUOTE=RB33;52109803]If it pushes away local culture, then the answer is always yes. I'm grateful for the Low German contributions to our culture, but Low German itself is on the decline. As it's being considered just a dialect and not it's own regional language.[/QUOTE] absolutely disgusting do you even know how much of modern swedish culture originates from germany? you're not fucking unique, no one is, so stop clinging so hard to these intangible ideas

[QUOTE=Saturn V;52109810]absolutely disgusting do you even know how much of modern swedish culture originates from germany? you're not fucking unique, no one is, so stop clinging so hard to these intangible ideas[/QUOTE] Can you literally not read? [QUOTE][B]I'm grateful for the Low German contributions to our culture, but Low German itself is on the decline. As it's being considered just a dialect and not it's own regional language.[/B][/QUOTE] And you're wrong because every culture is an unique mix of history, wheather you think so or not.