But Dan, it was advertised as Dark, the episode wasn't dark at all, Deep Breath was darker than this episode, and that was the first episode with a quirky 12 doctor.
[QUOTE=Dan2593;46155181]I don't know why you were all expecting a super dark horror show.[/QUOTE]It felt like a lot of the advanced reviews were touting it as such.
I'm okay with light Doctor Who and I'm not someone who actively wants a darker Doctor Who (though I'm okay with it when it happens) honestly. I like that both kids and adults can watch it, it's quite a hard balance to pull off. It's just no fun when something is advertised as '10/10 best episode ever' or 'it be the darkest story of the run yet' and then it isn't - and I think that's where a lot of the negativity (here, at least) is coming from. I'm being negative about the episode but I'd still rate it a 7 or an 8 out of 10.
[QUOTE=Dan2593;46155226]Doctor Who is a family evening drama which is self contained every week. This is isn't Breaking Bad. It's not Twin Peaks. [B]It's not Game of Thrones[/B]. Its 45 minutes of family entertainment to keep the kids quiet. It's scary for them not us. I watched for the adventure. As far as 'Dark Doctod Who' goes that was seeing it to the end. A dark eerie adventure which was Hinchcliffed to shit for the first half and then Classic Who for the end.[/QUOTE]
Well obviously it isn't, Doctor Who has likable characters! On occasion...
I heartily disagree. The entire episode was based around The Doctor doing something awful and then the remaining characters debating murdering a baby. It had The Doctor destroying a child's confidence. Had spiders murdering people in the mean time. To me that was really dark. I would say it was darker than Listen which wasn't actually dark but in the dark. Deep Breath wasn't my idea of dark at all. It had some dark themes.
I really hate that Clara decided to ignore Humanity's vote...She asked everyone on the fucking planet, everyone who you live with. Not just like a neighbor but everyone, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Police, Military, Scientists, NASA even. Clara is just a teacher at a normal school, but apparently to her, her opinion is more important than everyone who has Authority, everyone who has Kids, everyone who lives on a planet, that is bigger than herself.
You know what I would of done? 50/50 leaving the people on the moon to decide. Sure it is a cliche but it's better than ignoring Humanities Opinion on a giant alien that came out of the moon, and could of destroyed the earth and everyone on it. Which also brings me to the next bit I hate, SHE NEARLY KILLED EVERYONE IN THE UNIVERSE. But nooo her opinion is way bigger than everyone on Earth, surely letting an Alien that is in the moon, the same moon which controls the Tidal wave and other stuff. Screw risking the damn Earth, that isn't important, what's more important is a damn Alien that is in the moon.
They could of made it so the Earth got flooded and destroyed, that would of made the episode Dark, I mean she destroyed EARTH, plus it would give out a message to kids. Your decision affects everyone, decide wisely. Heck I wouldn't of cared if the Doctor took them back to the Moon before Earth got destroyed.
[editline]5th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dan2593;46155299]I heartily disagree. The entire episode was based around The Doctor doing something awful and then the remaining characters debating murdering a baby. It had The Doctor destroying a child's confidence. Had spiders murdering people in the mean time. To me that was really dark. I would say it was darker than Listen which wasn't actually dark but in the dark. Deep Breath wasn't my idea of dark at all. It had some dark themes.[/QUOTE]
I dunno how you don't find Deep Breath Dark, I mean there was a Robot killing humans and using their body parts for itself, AND it made a blimp from human flesh. Also how is not risking the destruction of Earth awful? If it was a Human Baby or any Baby from Earth then yes, it would be more debatable, but in this case it wasn't. What would you decide? Saving an Alien and risk destroying Earth and killing everyone on it? And having nowhere to go? OR kill the Alien, keep the Tidal waves in check and save everyone on Earth and the planet itself? IMO, I would kill the Alien to protect Earth since I like being alive.
[QUOTE=Dan2593;46155299]I heartily disagree. The entire episode was based around The Doctor doing something awful and then the remaining characters debating murdering a baby. It had The Doctor destroying a child's confidence. Had spiders murdering people in the mean time. To me that was really dark. I would say it was darker than Listen which wasn't actually dark but in the dark. Deep Breath wasn't my idea of dark at all. It had some dark themes.[/QUOTE]I think it was probably the darkest of the series but not by a large enough margin to advertise it. A lot of 'darkness' comes from the resolution (especially for kids). If everything is okay at the end it's not really that bad (especially for kids).
By pure luck at the end of the episode everything was okay. Nobody [that we cared about] died, the moon was still there, the earth didn't get hit by giant falling moon rocks. That's the difference between Doctor Who and a show like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones - we regularly end on a high note with little consequences. That in itself removes a ton of the darkness.
That's also what makes an episode like the Waters of Mars or Blink so dark as well. The Waters of Mars ends with the companion of the episode [I]committing suicide[/I] and the Doctor running away from his death. Blink ends with the fact that there are thousands of potential angels still in the world and that you might never really be safe from them.
This episode ended with Clara sort of being mad at the Doctor but not really. If in this episode Courtney was killed (or something like that) the resolution would have been a lot different. I guarantee that Clara and probably that other person (I forget the name) would have disliked the Doctor [I]a lot[/I] and the consequences would be a lot worse.
But did I want that? Sort of - but only because this episode was touted as dark. In general though, I'm fine with family Doctor Who.
Oh and I dislike how there were no Tidal waves during the gap between the Old Moon being destroyed and the New Moon being born.
[QUOTE=Freeze;46155284]It felt like a lot of the advanced reviews were touting it as such.[/QUOTE]
I dunno. Aside from the quotes Grizz posted they weren't overwhelmingly positive apart from a couple. I can only think of 1 or 2 that touted it as scary, the rest said it was eerie and dark. A couple said the tone was inconsistent and Clara was miswritten compared to last week and her role next week. The one statement they all agreed on (even the negative ones) was that it was very different in tone to the majority before it and was a good example of 'serious Who'. One reviewer who cited Cold War as his favourite 11th Doctor episode (and this reviewer hates Dr 4 and loves the 80s era) said it was a highlight of the series An episode is either serious, light hearted or scary. The reviews said it was enjoyable for those who liked serious. Bam.
Maybe it's time to retire the pre-broadcast reviews. It's a show which divides opinion and we frankly don't need them apart from obtaining a tantalising peek at the upcoming episode. I doubt they help rope in new viewers this far in. For the third time this series they generated an unhealthy level of hype which came crashing down around them.
[editline]5th October 2014[/editline]
In reality she didn't ask everybody. Only people in the dark could vote and the people in the dark were probably asleep.
Clara asked Europe, which was mostly in the dark at that point anyway.
[QUOTE=Dan2593;46155181]I don't know why you were all expecting a super dark horror show. You were expecting something other than Doctor Who. Clearly the moon being an egg is very Doctor Who and the sort of thing I love about the show.
When The Doctor left it felt like Q abandoning The Enterprises' Away Team and leaving them to deal with a moral dilemma which doubles up as a modern day social commentary (ie: abortion or murder of the unknown). It felt very much like TNG in those final moments.
My only real problem with that episode was the egg laying and how quickly Clara got over being angry after chatting to Danny. The Doctor did an awful hypocritical thing. Then she just got over it.[/QUOTE]
No one was expecting it to be extremely dark, just something along the lines of previous episodes. There have been quite a few dark episodes: The majority of the episodes with Eccelston, The Impossible Planet/Satan pit, Waters of Mars, Blink, Silence in the Library, Turn Left, The End of Time, the Family of Blood etc (It's been a while since I've seen any of those but from what i can remember they were quite dark).
[QUOTE=Dan2593;46155378]I dunno. Aside from the quotes Grizz posted they weren't overwhelmingly positive apart from a couple.[/QUOTE]pretty much every reviewer loved it
[QUOTE]"A brilliantly unnerving Who episode featuring stand-out performances."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]"Doctor Who TV Verdict: 10/10"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]"Kill The Moon is very sci-fi, very horror and very personal - for me, already a modern day classic. And the best Doctor Who in years."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]"5/5 - Cultbox"[/QUOTE]
All from different sites.
I agree though, it's probably time to get rid of these advanced reviews and just have embargoes set until the episode actually airs. I think the reaction to this episode would have been a lot more positive if it weren't for these reviews.
[QUOTE=Dan2593;46155378]In reality she didn't ask everybody. Only people in the dark could vote and the people in the dark were probably asleep.[/QUOTE]To be fair if something like this was happening you'd most likely be woken up by someone. Whether it be the crowds of people walking in the streets looking up at the moon or your best friend ringing you because for some reason he's awake at this time. Something would have woken you up.
In actual-reality the government would have almost certainly shut off the power of the majority of areas to save their own asses.
The half of the world she couldn't see got shafted though. :v:
[QUOTE=Freeze;46155435]pretty much every reviewer loved it
All from different sites.
I agree though, it's probably time to get rid of these advanced reviews and just have embargoes set until the episode actually airs. I think the reaction to this episode would have been a lot more positive if it weren't for these reviews.[/QUOTE]
I didn't read any of the reviews and I still thought it sucked.
I'll say again hype wasn't the issue for me, the issue for me was the episode itself, it's all well and good talking about having to do something horrible with horrible repercussions either way but nothing having them at the end just doesn't make sense and all you then have is talking about how horrible the hypothetical horrible decision is. It's all talk and an illusion of a dark and nasty decision as it lacks in substance to make it anything more than that.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/qvqZpgd.png[/img]
I really enjoyed this episode and i have all this season i don't hype episodes but i don't see the reason you guys get all riled up about these
[QUOTE=Lexinator;46155967]I really enjoyed this episode and i have all this season i don't hype episodes but i don't see the reason you guys get all riled up about these[/QUOTE]
As I said before, my issue with it is that the episode is built around a moral quandary and then ignores at then end and resolves it with no fallout from it bar some superficial tension between Clara and The Doctor that itself will be forgotten before too long, which makes the whole issue utterly pointless!
It's just one great illusion of depth and maturity that pretends to be more than it really is.
You really can't have the kinds of discussions that they were having in that episode and just shrug them off with a quick BS ending.
Otherwise, once again, what is the point?
So instead of the Golden Age, is this the Marmite Age?
[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;46153742]How the fuck can [sp]Courtney be president in 2049 if she's a citizen born in the UK?[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]UK became a state obviously[/sp]
i dunno i kinda dig episodes like this
it is like one of those achewood comics where the punchline is in the first panel
has anyone else noticed the absurd amount of rhyming lately
Also are we missing that the moral dilemma in Kill the Moon is basically the same as in the Beast Below:
Harm (/continue harming) a helpless creature or risk killing everyone who depended on it.
[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;46157475]"Those that bear the foretold stare have 66 seconds to live."
I look forward to next weeks episode. The Next Time trailer has that kinda RTD era feeling to it. Looks like an adventure the 10th doctor would set his teeth in.[/QUOTE]
Does anyone think that the whole 'mummy on the orient express thing' has been mentioned before? I could have sworn that it was hinted at at the end of one episode somewhere, it may have been one of the 10th Doctor's ones, I can't exactly recall.
[QUOTE=Chrisordie;46157716]Does anyone think that the whole 'mummy on the orient express thing' has been mentioned before? I could have sworn that it was hinted at at the end of one episode somewhere, it may have been one of the 10th Doctor's ones, I can't exactly recall.[/QUOTE]At the end of 'The Big Bang' the Doctor takes a phone call where an Egyptian goddess is on the loose on the Orient Express in space and the royal on the other end is concerned.
[QUOTE=Chrisordie;46157716]Does anyone think that the whole 'mummy on the orient express thing' has been mentioned before? I could have sworn that it was hinted at at the end of one episode somewhere, it may have been one of the 10th Doctor's ones, I can't exactly recall.[/QUOTE]
Surprise crossover with the 10th Doctor. Now [I]that[/I] would be the highlight of the series.
[QUOTE=Freeze;46157779]At the end of 'The Big Bang' the Doctor takes a phone call where an Egyptian goddess is on the loose on the Orient Express in space and the royal on the other end is concerned.[/QUOTE]
Oh thank you, I was starting to think that I had gone mad for a second and made it up!
I've been expecting a [sp]Runaway Bride[/sp] reference through the entire episode but it either never happened or I missed it...
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46157900]Surprise crossover with the 10th Doctor. Now [I]that[/I] would be the highlight of the series.[/QUOTE]
[I]"So what was your highlight of Peter Capaldi's debut series?"
"David Tennant"[/I]
A shame that it would actually happen that way. But them's the breaks.
Speaking of breaks, I have had no desire to discuss KTM on a number of regular boards today. Just reading about the show is so fucking depressing in every corner of the Internet, this week. A higher-than-usual surge of untempered expectations, I suppose. The Guardian or one of the papers has finally started their ratings crisis story, so there will be that to look forward to developing in the weeks ahead. Probably a good thing Harness left Twitter behind when he did, with all the vile that would be surging his way because the science was too fictional / Capaldi was too unlikable / Capaldi was too likable / Clara has feelings / Courtney didn't was too loud / Courtney was too quiet / It was too dark / It belonged on CBBC / Moffat has tried something new / Moffat has ran out of ideas - the same old contradictory stuff depending on who you ask :v:
When I started to doubt whether I enjoyed the last few episodes as much as I thought I did, I decided it was time for a break from it all. So I'm going to go and watch the rest of the series and just enjoy it. No previews. No debates. No ratings analysis. No Doctor v Doctor, Era v Era, 'X should go' circular discussions. Because Peter Capaldi is The Doctor - and I want to enjoy every second of it as much as I can, without the distraction - after starting the series on such a massive high.
12 is putting the Lord back in Time Lord.
Love to you all. Have a parting Moffat.
[img]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luui1bHOXE1qlh54r.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Grizz;46158136][I]"So what was your highlight of Peter Capaldi's debut series?"
"David Tennant"[/I][/QUOTE]More like:
[I]"So what was your highlight of Peter Capaldi's debut series?"
"Peter Capaldi and David Tennant interacting"[/I]
It's the bouncing off of each other than makes it so fun, not just the past Doctor showing up. If there was an episode where it was literally half a Capaldi episode and half a Tennant episode with them pretty much not interacting it'd suck. :v:
To be fair, Facepunch as a whole is pretty good in general when it comes to negativity. Kill the Moon is pretty much the only episode of this series where the majority of people here are being negative about it (and some of us, myself included, still liked the episode a lot - it just didn't live up to the expectation which is the reason for the negativity). Most people here agree that ratings don't matter and that people have opinions. There's hardly anyone spewing the words that 'X should go' without it being pretty respectful (eg I believe it was Dan who said he wants Moffat to go after the ninth series not because he's bad, but because it'd just be good to get a change).
It was the 11th doctor who took the call, ya'll!
Well, a schoolgirl just killed a giant spider with kitchen cleaner. Must be all that benzalkonium chloride, shit's noxious but leaves the counters damn near spotless.
[QUOTE=Dan2593;46155181]I don't know why you were all expecting a super dark horror show. You were expecting something other than Doctor Who. Clearly the moon being an egg is very Doctor Who and the sort of thing I love about the show.
When The Doctor left it felt like Q abandoning The Enterprises' Away Team and leaving them to deal with a moral dilemma which doubles up as a modern day social commentary (ie: abortion or murder of the unknown). It felt very much like TNG in those final moments.
My only real problem with that episode was the egg laying and how quickly Clara got over being angry after chatting to Danny. The Doctor did an awful hypocritical thing. Then she just got over it.[/QUOTE]
My only problem is Moffat. One thing I loved about Doctor Who was the character development that RTD offered. Moffat had a good spell with Smith as the Doctor, but you could tell it was stretching during S7.
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