Then why the push of the sharia law in every country where you go ?
Why does the moderate Islam does not condemn publicly the extremists action ? It feels like you are accepting what they do when you do not speak up agaisnt it...
[QUOTE=BrQ;21752973]1. Killing animals for food is a different case, and when you are killing the animal for food, you must do it in a way so that the animal does not suffer for long (cutting the throat).
3.not really, as far as I know, you can only hit some one if he or she has done something terrible, such as having sex with someone else.
4. Yes he did, it's about people getting killed/hurt/threatened because they say bad things about islam/quran/prophets, and that he does not agree with it.
5. your point?[/QUOTE]
BTW guys this is the miswak, [IMG]http://hamdala.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/siwak.jpg[/IMG] Which you are allowed to swipe on your wife's cheek just to show her, look what you made me do. Shouldn't hurt, shouldn't leave any marks. And its up to the husband I personally won't
practice this preach even if she irritates the hell out of me. There's men who missinterpret this and think it means beat the shit out of your wife with your hands.
Also it has to be very justified I.e. something really infuriating.
@Mechanical43 this is a quote from starpluck
[url]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...terror&spell=1[/url]
[url]www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php[/url]
[url]www.daar-ul-ehsaan.org/terrorism.htm[/url]
groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm
[url]www.harunyahya.com/terrorism1.php[/url]
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8544531.stm[/url]
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe...ror/index.html[/url]
etc.
Those sites clearly shows how islam takes a stand from extremism and terrorism.
I've been with an atheist to Iraq, people knew she was too, she sometimes discussed islam with the natives just out of interest, they never pushed it upon her, she haven't converted still. But that doesn't change my views on her.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21752760]May be OT but out of curiosity: In Islam is it believed that Allah decides everything, like fate and destiny, which means Allah decides people's actions and the future has been decided by Allah as well?
My friend told me this and I'm rather skeptical since I think all monotheistic religions don't agree with fate or destiny or whatever.[/QUOTE]
I have been told this aswell, and according to the islamic beliefs, on the day of judgement (so after you die) it's not an excuse to say 'but you decided my destiny, I had no choice', as the answer will be that you do have a choice, because look, you can completely control your actions in the present. I find it some kind of a 'paradoxy' though.
Also, if anyone was wondering, a questions that is often asked is 'why do people suffer on earth while there's a God?'. I've once asked this to an imam and I got this answer (written in my own words, as I do not exactly remember what he said):
The purpose of Earth is so that you show and prove Allah that you are worthy of entering Heaven. Before you were born, a promise had been made that you will be and stay a muslim throughout the whole earth life. Then imagine, the earth was a happy place, there was no violence, only peace and there were mosques everywhere and everyone was always a muslim. Evil things were not present and everyone lived a good life.
If that was the case, what would be the point of Earth? The point was so that you prove that you are really a muslim, but how can you prove that in a world where there's always peace?
Good and bad things do happen, and you have to make the right choices so that you live a good, happy life in a violent world while you still are a muslim.
Of course this has been told in an 'islamic' way, but I can imagine very similar answers from Christians and Jews.
[QUOTE=BrQ;21753146]I have been told this aswell, and according to the islamic beliefs, on the day of judgement (so after you die) it's not an excuse to say 'but you decided my destiny, I had no choice', as the answer will be that you do have a choice, because look, you can completely control your actions in the present. I find it some kind of a 'paradoxy' though.
Also, if anyone was wondering, a questions that is often asked is 'why do people suffer on earth while there's a God?'. I've once asked this to an imam and I got this answer (written in my own words, as I do not exactly remember what he said):
The purpose of Earth is so that you show and prove Allah that you are worthy of entering Heaven. Before you were born, a promise had been made that you will be and stay a muslim throughout the whole earth life. Then imagine, the earth was a happy place, there was no violence, only peace and there were mosques everywhere and everyone was always a muslim. Evil things were not present and everyone lived a good life.
If that was the case, what would be the point of Earth? The point was so that you prove that you are really a muslim, but how can you prove that in a world where there's always peace?
Good and bad things do happen, and you have to make the right choices so that you live a good, happy life in a violent world while you still are a muslim.
Of course this has been told in an 'islamic' way, but I can imagine very similar answers from Christians and Jews.[/QUOTE]
This is true, its because god is testing you. And it would be easy as hell being a muslim in a world where there are no violence and things like that.
But notice this, the muslims living now get more ajer than the muslims living at muhammads time, because Allah recognizes that it is truly hard to believe in something you have never seen. Therefore we people that are believing now are stronger-minded than those living at the prophets time. If places were switched I think those who lived in the prophets time would not be muslims at all.
Why would anyone discipline their wife? A wife is a person you choose to love and care for. You chose her and she chose you. You love her and she loves you. A proper marriage is the one where you basically trust each other with support. There is no such thing as disciplining wife. It is children that should be discipline, not spouses.
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21753121]BTW guys this is the miswak, [IMG]http://hamdala.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/siwak.jpg[/IMG] Which you are allowed to swipe on your wife's cheek just to show her, look what you made me do. Shouldn't hurt, shouldn't leave any marks. And its up to the husband I personally won't
practice this preach even if she irritates the hell out of me. There's men who missinterpret this and think it means beat the shit out of your wife with your hands.
Also it has to be very justified I.e. something really infuriating.
[/QUOTE]
I really doubt that, even if something approves hitting your wife with that, I'd assume that would only be acceptable if your wife has done something horrible wrong (and horrible wrong is not not doing the dishes, but something like having sex with other people)
Where did it say you can hit your wife with it by the way?
I actually did learn a little about the specifics of Islam from this thread, good work.
One thing I didn't about Muhammed, your last and greatest of prophets if I remember the Quran correctly, is that he was, in essence, a paedophile (No offense to your religion or anything, I have nothing against muslims or the religion Islam.) And the fact you can have multiple wives.
Of course, at the same time, I also think the Islamic religion is the most well-thought and organised religion on this planet.
Oh, and OP, one little question about your religion: It's true that the Quran do not tell woman to wear those weils, correct?
Again, I have nothing against Islam or muslims, and this is not an attempt to attack the OP or his religion in any way.
[QUOTE=BrQ;21753146]I have been told this aswell, and according to the islamic beliefs, on the day of judgement (so after you die) it's not an excuse to say 'but you decided my destiny, I had no choice', as the answer will be that you do have a choice, because look, you can completely control your actions in the present. I find it some kind of a 'paradoxy' though.
Also, if anyone was wondering, a questions that is often asked is 'why do people suffer on earth while there's a God?'. I've once asked this to an imam and I got this answer (written in my own words, as I do not exactly remember what he said):
The purpose of Earth is so that you show and prove Allah that you are worthy of entering Heaven. Before you were born, a promise had been made that you will be and stay a muslim throughout the whole earth life. Then imagine, the earth was a happy place, there was no violence, only peace and there were mosques everywhere and everyone was always a muslim. Evil things were not present and everyone lived a good life.
If that was the case, what would be the point of Earth? The point was so that you prove that you are really a muslim, but how can you prove that in a world where there's always peace?
Good and bad things do happen, and you have to make the right choices so that you live a good, happy life in a violent world while you still are a muslim.
Of course this has been told in an 'islamic' way, but I can imagine very similar answers from Christians and Jews.[/QUOTE]
So according to Islam there is no destiny and Allah doesn't decide our actions? That's what I thought.
In the post below you it also says that Earth is like a testing place so if Allah decides what we do on our test then it's not a real test, just being puppets, so it's either one or the other (which I believe is the other).
In Judaism it's also like this. There is a sentence saying "The way is clear and the options are yours" or something like this, which means god gives you the options but you choose which one to take.
[QUOTE=BrQ;21753146]I have been told this aswell, and according to the islamic beliefs, on the day of judgement (so after you die) it's not an excuse to say 'but you decided my destiny, I had no choice', as the answer will be that you do have a choice, because look, you can completely control your actions in the present. I find it some kind of a 'paradoxy' though.
Also, if anyone was wondering, a questions that is often asked is 'why do people suffer on earth while there's a God?'. I've once asked this to an imam and I got this answer (written in my own words, as I do not exactly remember what he said):
The purpose of Earth is so that you show and prove Allah that you are worthy of entering Heaven. Before you were born, a promise had been made that you will be and stay a muslim throughout the whole earth life. Then imagine, the earth was a happy place, there was no violence, only peace and there were mosques everywhere and everyone was always a muslim. Evil things were not present and everyone lived a good life.
If that was the case, what would be the point of Earth? The point was so that you prove that you are really a muslim, but how can you prove that in a world where there's always peace?
Good and bad things do happen, and you have to make the right choices so that you live a good, happy life in a violent world while you still are a muslim.
Of course this has been told in an 'islamic' way, but I can imagine very similar answers from Christians and Jews.[/QUOTE]
I like this Imam, he has the right idea :D
[QUOTE=BrQ;21752973]
4. Yes he did, it's about people getting killed/hurt/threatened because they say bad things about islam/quran/prophets, and that he does not agree with it.[/QUOTE]
exactly. he said HE doesnt agree with it. unfortunatly, he doesnt speak for Islam
[QUOTE=BrQ;21753217]I really doubt that, even if something approves hitting your wife with that, I'd assume that would only be acceptable if your wife has done something horrible wrong (and horrible wrong is not not doing the dishes, but something like having sex with other people)
Where did it say you can hit your wife with it by the way?[/QUOTE]
That IS the finger long toothbrush that you are supposed to use.
Greaterbeing I also said that there are normal muslims like me, which are like 99,999% of the muslim population.
Here's a good metaphor for the missinterpreters of the Qur'an
[IMG]http://relentlesspt.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/stickmen-holding-hands-peace-shirt-pi_mg-2_pi69.jpg[/IMG]
Meet Jack and John. Jack and John were walking down the street until they saw a store that was new in the block.
Being quite the shoppers they walk in to have a look, until they come up to a square package that reads Grill.
Jack thinking we could use a grill for those summer days and barbeque some meat and stuff.
John think it reads kill and goes on a big rampage killing 12 people.
Is it the grills (kills) wrong that he thought it read kill?
@Zero, Muhammad was not a pedophile but he did marry Aisha, because he was given her hand by her father, which is the prophets best friend Abu Bakr. Young marriages were common at that time and also, the prophet who was like 50 years old at the time couldn't approach 6 year olds and offer to teach them about islam, that sounds a little like hey kids get in the van I've got candy. So he married Aisha so he could be able to teach her about islam so she could pass that knowledge to her friends. He consummated the marriage when she was 19 though.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21752425][URL]http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544988[/URL]
According to the Qur'an itself; only at the last resort once you have no more options left, you are allowed to hit your wife with something as big as a natural (manual) toothbrush, and cannot leave any marks.[/QUOTE]
that link doesnt make any point at all. if you read my next post you would see that im also blaming islamic texts that are followed by islamic governments that condone severe dicipline against women. i see that you also ignore the subject of the dowry
[editline]03:17PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BrQ;21752973]1. Killing animals for food is a different case, and when you are killing the animal for food, you must do it in a way so that the animal does not suffer for long (cutting the throat).[/QUOTE]
they arent killing the animal for food they are killing it as a part of a traditional ceremony. idont even have a problem with it im just saying that hes not being truthful when he says that muslims do not harm animals
[QUOTE=Greaterbeing~;21753549]that link doesnt make any point at all. if you read my next post you would see that im also blaming islamic texts that are followed by islamic governments that condone severe dicipline against women. i see that you also ignore the subject of the dowry
[editline]03:17PM[/editline]
they arent killing the animal for food they are killing it as a part of a traditional ceremony. idont even have a problem with it im just saying that hes not being truthful when he says that muslims do not harm animals[/QUOTE]
We don't harm animals if we're not gonna eat them, we do slaughter animals for traditional ceremony but what happens with the meat do you think we throw it away? We eat it and share it with our neighbours. Islamic Governments can also missinterpret the Qur'an please refer to my post about Jack and John. If you wanna criticize the Qur'an at this level and criticize me as a messenger, then I suggest you don't trust me at all and go ahead and read the Qur'an in its original form (fozha) then you can come here and boss me around with everything you know, deal? ;)
There is also a list of animals we are allowed to slaughter anything other than this is haram.
Chicken
Cow
Sheep
Turkey
Duck
Fish (except we do not slaughter it we do fish it)
That is it.
I might have missed an animal or two, but thats because I'm dizzy and sick :(
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21753677]We don't harm animals if we're not gonna eat them, we do slaughter animals for traditional ceremony but what happens with the meat do you think we throw it away? We eat it and share it with our neighbours. Islamic Governments can also missinterpret the Qur'an please refer to my post about Jack and John. If you wanna criticize the Qur'an at this level and criticize me as a messenger, then I suggest you don't trust me at all and go ahead and read the Qur'an in its original form (fozha) then you can come here and boss me around with everything you know, deal? ;)
There is also a list of animals we are allowed to slaughter anything other than this is haram.
Chicken
Cow
Sheep
Turkey
Duck
Fish (except we do not slaughter it we do fish it)
That is it.
I might have missed an animal or two, but thats because I'm dizzy and sick :([/QUOTE]
all i saw in this post was 'youve got some valid points so i am going to tell you to stop criticising my religion and act like im insulted by your argument to make you stop'. lo and behold we come to the main gripe of islam: say something against the injustices in islam and a muslim will refuse to acknowledge your argument.
[QUOTE=Greaterbeing~;21753765]all i saw in this post was 'youve got some valid points so i am going to tell you to stop criticising my religion and act like im insulted by your argument to make you stop'. lo and behold we come to the main gripe of islam: say something against the injustices in islam and a muslim will refuse to acknowledge your argument.[/QUOTE]
Actually I recognize your argument very well, just not as a valid one, refer to other posts.
Also Dowry is not obligatory, its if the woman wants, or if the parents want.
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21753786]Actually I recognize your argument very well, just not as a valid one, refer to other posts.
Also Dowry is not obligatory, its if the woman wants, or if the parents want.[/QUOTE]
according to the quran the dowry is obligatory
[QUOTE=Greaterbeing~;21753824]according to the quran the dowry is obligatory[/QUOTE]
Have you read that by yourself?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry[/url]
Not only muslims practice that.
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21753786]Actually I recognize your argument very well, just not as a valid one, refer to other posts.
[/QUOTE]
'refer to the other posts' doesnt make my argument invalid y'know. and apparently you dont recognize it well because you basically told me to go read the quran before i can criticise you as a messenger of Islam
[editline]03:39PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21753828]Have you read that by yourself?[/QUOTE]
ive read the relevent extracts regarding the mahr, yes
[editline]03:39PM[/editline]
(in english obviously)
[QUOTE=lulzbocks;21738952]Thanks for clarifying. I'm not fluent in Arabic or Fozha, obviously :). And that was just information from another source anyway, so it's irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
The same thing's happened with the bible.
[QUOTE=Greaterbeing~;21753834]'refer to the other posts' doesnt make my argument invalid y'know. and apparently you dont recognize it well because you basically told me to go read the quran before i can criticise you as a messenger of Islam
[editline]03:39PM[/editline]
ive read the relevent extracts regarding the mahr, yes
[editline]03:39PM[/editline]
(in english obviously)[/QUOTE]
You can't expect to know what the qur'an is speaking about fully when read in english, because that increases the chance of missinterpreting.
Also refer to my other posts for your arguments that aren't valid at all, except Dowry which happens more in europe in the time of the prophet than islam itself.
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21753887]You can't expect to know what the qur'an is speaking about fully when read in english, because that increases the chance of missinterpreting.
Also refer to my other posts for your arguments that aren't valid at all, except Dowry which happens more in europe in the time of the prophet than islam itself.[/QUOTE]
so youre saying that because i cannot read arabic my opinion must be incorrect? what a suprise.
if youre so intent on proving my arguments wrong, find the posts yourself and construct an arguement against me. dont just shake off my criticism with a generic response.
may i ask if you have lived your entire life in sweden?
[QUOTE=Greaterbeing~;21753918]so youre saying that because i cannot read arabic my opinion must be incorrect? what a suprise.
if youre so intent on proving my arguments wrong, find the posts yourself and construct an arguement against me. dont just shake off my criticism with a generic response.
may i ask if you have lived your entire life in sweden?[/QUOTE]
I cannot see a verse of latin which I cannot read and imply that the verse is a lie.
I'm not trying to prove your arguments wrong, I'm very tired as you can see I've been answering alot of questions. No lived in iraq, turkey a bit. Syria and egypt.
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21753950]
I'm not trying to prove your arguments wrong[/QUOTE]
oh ok so youre calling my arguments invalid but not tyring to prove them wrong? sounds like you have no argument against them.
[editline]03:55PM[/editline]
fuck it im done with this
to put this short
Islamic religon and islamic governments is whiney, bitchy, stuck up socialist control that throws a veil of peace over its violence; just like every other dominating religon in today's world.
[editline]03:56PM[/editline]
and you have no argument against that because you know its true. i am so sick of hearing that Islam is the religion of peace
[QUOTE=Greaterbeing~;21754025]oh ok so youre calling my arguments invalid but not tyring to prove them wrong? sounds like you have no argument against them.
[editline]03:55PM[/editline]
fuck it im done with this
to put this short
Islamic religon and islamic governments is whiney, bitchy, stuck up socialist control that throws a veil of peace over its violence; just like every other dominating religon in today's world.
[editline]03:56PM[/editline]
and you have no argument against that because you know its true. i am so sick of hearing that Islam is the religion of peace[/QUOTE]
Argument against what? Make a valid argument and I'll answer it. This is you I HAVE HEADPHONES, COME ON SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THEM, what do you want me to say. SAY ANYTHING BRO.
So far your only valid argument is dowry, which was more common in the time of the prophet in europe than in islam, and is now so uncommon.
Your only logical argument is refuted. Therefore I have nothing more to say to you. I suggest you read a little more about islam, incase you didn't know this thread is for people who want to know the truth, but when you click this thread fully locked on "I fucking hate muslims, I'm not even gonna care for what he says, I'm just gonna type some unvalid arguments and when he gets confused I'll say that I won the argument so I can get some sleep tonight.
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21754087]Argument against what? Make a valid argument and I'll answer it. This is you I HAVE HEADPHONES, COME ON SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THEM, what do you want me to say. SAY ANYTHING BRO.
So far your only valid argument is dowry, which was more common in the time of the prophet in europe than in islam, and is now so uncommon.[/QUOTE]
fyi the dowry is present in most if not all practicing islamic marriages.
first paragraph made no sense whatsoever. I have several valid arguments that youve simply ignored. and youve just put christianity and islam into a nutshell for me: christianity changed and evolved with time, Islam didnt. Thanks bro enjoy being part of one of the most disgusting institutions on the planet. Oh, and dont reply to me because i wont be coming into this thread again because all i find here is ignorance. xoxoxox
[editline]04:04PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21754087]
Your only logical argument is refuted. Therefore I have nothing more to say to you. I suggest you read a little more about islam, incase you didn't know this thread is for people who want to know the truth, but when you click this thread fully locked on "I fucking hate muslims, I'm not even gonna care for what he says, I'm just gonna type some unvalid arguments and when he gets confused I'll say that I won the argument so I can get some sleep tonight.[/QUOTE]
haha. go back and read my posts. and once again the 'YOUR EJUST HERE TO INSULT MY RELIGION' card is played. nice one mate all youve done is reinforced the opinion of many that Islam is a whiney bitch of a religion that cant take criticism. ok now im done. no more posts.
[QUOTE=PjaNoo^;21738761]Don't we all, we all hate the radical muslims, except they're not muslims cus they're going against the religion.
@Natrox, the only thing I want out of holland is to visit your fine ass coffee shops, which is gonna happen in a year or two :P[/QUOTE]
Wait, isn't smoking pot haram?
Personally, I don't give a crap about religion, but Muslims in Europe? It's a no-no for me and should be for all Europeans, as Muslims in a country mostly pose threat to our Western society.
Go watch Thunderf00t or Pat Condell on Youtube, you'll understand.
[QUOTE=Greaterbeing~;21754157]fyi the dowry is present in most if not all practicing islamic marriages.
first paragraph made no sense whatsoever. I have several valid arguments that youve simply ignored. and youve just put christianity and islam into a nutshell for me: christianity changed and evolved with time, Islam didnt. Thanks bro enjoy being part of one of the most disgusting institutions on the planet. Oh, and dont reply to me because i wont be coming into this thread again because all i find here is ignorance. xoxoxox
[editline]04:04PM[/editline]
haha. go back and read my posts. and once again the 'YOUR EJUST HERE TO INSULT MY RELIGION' card is played. nice one mate all youve done is reinforced the opinion of many that Islam is a whiney bitch of a religion that cant take criticism. ok now im done. no more posts.[/QUOTE]
Stop posting. You don't know shit about Islam and you're an Islamaphobe so get the fuck out.
[editline]11:24AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;21754409]Personally, I don't give a crap about religion, but Muslims in Europe? It's a no-no for me and should be for all Europeans, as Muslims in a country mostly pose threat to our Western society.
Go watch Thunderf00t or Pat Condell on Youtube, you'll understand.[/QUOTE]
lol, how are they a threat?
and yeah let's go watch some guy on Youtube. they're really credible. Pat Condell is a comedian.. I don't give a fuck what that bigot says.
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;21754409]Personally, I don't give a crap about religion, but Muslims in Europe? It's a no-no for me and should be for all Europeans, as Muslims in a country mostly pose threat to our Western society.
Go watch Thunderf00t or Pat Condell on Youtube, you'll understand.[/QUOTE]
Yeah because youtube bloggers have all the knowledge in the world, most of the things they do is just for publicity to get views and money, suprising that you haven't found this out yet
And Greaterbeing, I understand that you hate islam. But thats just because you're uneducated period.
But if you still hate islam and have read the qur'an fully in fozha, then I have nothing to say to you, but because you have not read it fully in fozha, you are still uneducated. It becomes an opinion when you know.
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