For real though regardless of how dumb you think JT's views are the outrage over this is pretty wild
he doesn't deserve to be pretty much ruined because he says stupid shit
[editline]19th July 2017[/editline]
I mean make fun of him all you want but fuck
Would be nice if he dug deep and announced a change in his views in a positive way, or says nothing and continues to make videos, either way I'll still watch them.
After watching the original debate and his video, i understood what he meant by misconstrued. People are eager to villify the guy but sometimes wording goes to shit and you get interrupted mid thought then fuck up the completion of it. With someone who isnt a full-time debate guy like jontron that will happen a lot, and he said as much in his follow up. He established a hypothetical and tried to argue it to the conclusion, then went on a tangent without reiterating the hypothetical. Giving a reasonable margin of fucked phrasing plus hypotheticals taken out of context his arguments werent the great evil a lot of people wanted it to be.
It's kind of a stupid thing for there to be drama over anyways. There are plenty of people who do legitimately shitty things to real other people, trying to put down them down and exploiting drama for their own gain. The extracredits guys come to mind, they were never in a ~racist debate scandal~ but the way they slander former friends who dont fall in line with their clique to get some clapping at a panel is far worse than disagreeable opinions. By comparison jontron seems pretty fun to casually talk to and works well with other people. But people have different priorities for their internet drama trains i guess.
As much as I love Jon, the reaction he got at the time was absolutely deserved. I don't think he's actually a bad person at heart, but he very clearly got into some very bad lines of thinking and a wrong crowd of people, and his stubbornness to admit his faults really sealed his coffin. It's sad to know his public perception won't ever really be the same, but it's very much his own fault.
Makes me sad because I do genuinely just want him to come back and I want to enjoy his content, but the whole fiasco has left a sour taste in my mouth, from all angles really. I hope things get mended eventually.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;52484531]Would be nice if he dug deep and announced a change in his views in a positive way, or says nothing and continues to make videos, either way I'll still watch them.[/QUOTE]
Whether his opinions are wrong or right is irrelevant.
Nobody should be forced to change their views or grovel, whether jon's opinions have changed or not is completely irrelevant. I don't agree with him at all but forcing your own opinions on him like he's required to change his opinions to match yours is not only selfish but kind of pathetic.
Jon's personal opinions are his own personal opinions. You can say 'hurr he said all this dumb shit' but it was in the context of a discussion on the matter and he's basically never brought it up outside of that context.
TBs tweet about him recruiting for stormfront is just infuriatingly rude too. Jontron's youtube channel and productions have been politically neutral for fucking ever, so the blowup and controversy over this shit is just fucking stupid.
Guy goes onto a debate on a known sensitive topic, gets his ass handed to him and rightfully so, and rather than everyone going on to say 'man he sure got shown up, hope he learned his lesson' we get people demanding public apologies, that he have his entire life and career ruined, that he must change his stance on everything immediately and that he's permanently an awful person.
Who are the real people who are intolerant here? Jon's a dumbass who said dumb shit but he never once called for blood. Just saying.
[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;52484770]Whether his opinions are wrong or right is irrelevant.
Nobody should be forced to change their views or grovel, whether jon's opinions have changed or not is completely irrelevant. I don't agree with him at all but forcing your own opinions on him like he's required to change his opinions to match yours is not only selfish but kind of pathetic.
Jon's personal opinions are his own personal opinions. You can say 'hurr he said all this dumb shit' but it was in the context of a discussion on the matter and he's basically never brought it up outside of that context.
TBs tweet about him recruiting for stormfront is just infuriatingly rude too. Jontron's youtube channel and productions have been politically neutral for fucking ever, so the blowup and controversy over this shit is just fucking stupid.
Guy goes onto a debate on a known sensitive topic, gets his ass handed to him and rightfully so, and rather than everyone going on to say 'man he sure got shown up, hope he learned his lesson' we get people demanding public apologies, that he have his entire life and career ruined, that he must change his stance on everything immediately and that he's permanently an awful person.
Who are the real people who are intolerant here? Jon's a dumbass who said dumb shit but he never once called for blood. Just saying.[/QUOTE]
I think in particular, TB was meaning like, if even his friends too were just flat out making him feel like a piece of shit for his views, and not even really gracing him with a real calm talk, it might have exacerbated things a lot more. I don't think he'd use his platform for that, but if you get treated like shit enough from someone, you certainly aren't gonna exactly wanna entertain anything they have to say even if there's truth to it.
I do agree though, he shouldn't have his life ruined over it and he shouldn't have to change his views purely because people want him to. I think though he should at least be able to admit the things he was factually wrong over. Not that i need him to do this publicly or something, but if you are willing to go on a public debate on something you should be able to admit what you were proven wrong about.
I think though he should just really keep out of politics like that and just focus on what he was normally doing.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52483289]People's opinions change over time, I doubt Jon still holds the opinions he expressed in that whole racist thing after it was really close to ruining his entire career.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, perhaps not. It might've been an eye-opening experience for him, but he'd already gotten cozy with some extreme anti-SJWs by that point and he very easily could've just gone to them for support instead. AFAIK he hasn't publicly done anything with any of them since then, which could mean that he realized they were a bad influence, but it could also mean he's learned to keep his opinions to himself. It all depends on the choices he made in the aftermath of the scandal.
[QUOTE=Fangz;52483299]I didn't realize this until now, but it seems TB and his friends no longer associate with JonTron at all after they chatted with him in private:
-TB tweets-
I wonder if he is still even with Normal Boots.[/QUOTE]
I remember back when this happened and TB made a 40 minute soundcloud about how he wouldn't lynch JonTron even though everyone was asking him to. As a big fan of TB and JonTron I was like "What? Who?" guess it turned out a few people on Twitter did. Not sure why he cares that much about those guys, he reaches millions, of course he's gonna attract a few total morons. Not that it shouldn't bother him, I imagine a bunch of people being shitty to me would suck too, but taking it that much to mind and acting like they were the majority? Always seemed unhealthy.
He seems to have a healthier relationship with Twitter now though, he's responding to a verified steamer that was directly involved not just some random arsehat with an anime avatar.
Also Jon isn't part of Normal Boots anymore according to Peanut Butter Gamer and (I think) ProJared.
The only news I've heard about JonTron is Ethan saying that he'll be on the H3H3 podcast soon.
[QUOTE=windows098;52480317]I saw him last week in a pub in london. Maybe he's just taking a little break off?[/QUOTE]
I was wondering why people were disagreeing then I realized I actually forgot to give any evidence. It's not much but my brother was able to get a picture with him at the gaming bar where my brother works. Makes we wish I got a picture now.[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Q9cRojL.png[/IMG]
I edited my brothers face out real quick because he's not online yet and I want to be sure he actually is okay with me putting his face on facepunch.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;52484675]After watching the original debate and his video, i understood what he meant by misconstrued. People are eager to villify the guy but sometimes wording goes to shit and you get interrupted mid thought then fuck up the completion of it. With someone who isnt a full-time debate guy like jontron that will happen a lot, and he said as much in his follow up. He established a hypothetical and tried to argue it to the conclusion, then went on a tangent without reiterating the hypothetical. Giving a reasonable margin of fucked phrasing plus hypotheticals taken out of context his arguments werent the great evil a lot of people wanted it to be.
It's kind of a stupid thing for there to be drama over anyways. There are plenty of people who do legitimately shitty things to real other people, trying to put down them down and exploiting drama for their own gain. The extracredits guys come to mind, they were never in a ~racist debate scandal~ but the way they slander former friends who dont fall in line with their clique to get some clapping at a panel is far worse than disagreeable opinions. By comparison jontron seems pretty fun to casually talk to and works well with other people. But people have different priorities for their internet drama trains i guess.[/QUOTE]
If he isn't able to competently defend his viewpoint he shouldn't have agreed to go onto a stream specifically to debate with someone.
Don't get me wrong I like him and his videos but he dug this hole himself, he should have stuck to making funny videos instead of wading into this discussion without having the knowledge or the competence to back himself up.
The main reason people are so upset is because before this there was a lot of love out there for him, if people didn't give a shit about him there wouldn't be any drama. But he's basically destroyed a lot of the goodwill that was out there for him.
[QUOTE=Jackald;52492444]JonTron should have just kept quiet. It doesn't matter if he's right or not, it's way too dangerous to his career to say the shit he said.[/QUOTE]
He'd probably make the argument of "I shouldn't have my voice silenced just because some people will get upset".
I mean, I would too, but I would also have the hindsight to know if what I think would lead a to a shit ton of backlash or not.
[QUOTE=Jackald;52492444]JonTron should have just kept quiet. It doesn't matter if he's right or not, it's way too dangerous to his career to say the shit he said.[/QUOTE]
There's always some shit going around about celebrities and their personal opinions, even if JonTron isn't so much a international celebrity, he's well known and followed, and to some degree, at a point in time, also respected.
[img]https://my.mixtape.moe/aeyvty.png[/img]
I'm honestly surprised so many of you actually give a shit about what he said.
I still think he's a hilarious youtuber and thats all I really care about.
[QUOTE=Oizen;52494166]I'm honestly surprised so many of you actually give a shit about what he said.
I still think he's a hilarious youtuber and thats all I really care about.[/QUOTE]
What he said was moronic and offensive, but it's going to take a hell of a lot worse of a comment to get me to stop watching and enjoying his videos.
[QUOTE=Oizen;52494166]I'm honestly surprised so many of you actually give a shit about what he said.
I still think he's a hilarious youtuber and thats all I really care about.[/QUOTE]
Alright let's pack it up folks. We shouldn't care what influential people on the internet say because they're funny. It's not like people pick up opinions from those they look up to or their opinions validate the shitty ideals that others have.
[QUOTE=ThatSwordGuy;52494326]Alright let's pack it up folks. We shouldn't care what influential people on the internet say because they're funny. It's not like people pick up opinions from those they look up to or their opinions validate the shitty ideals that others have.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I'm just unique in that I don't hold people's political opinions as the ultimate judge of their character.
Plus I'm capable of forming my own opinions and don't need a youtuber to tell me how to think.
But hey if you want to completetly run a guy out of his youtube channel for saying things you don't agree with, be my guest.
[QUOTE=Oizen;52494604]Maybe I'm just unique in that I don't hold people's political opinions as the ultimate judge of their character.
Plus I'm capable of forming my own opinions and don't need a youtuber to tell me how to think.
But hey if you want to completetly run a guy out of his youtube channel for saying things you don't agree with, be my guest.[/QUOTE]
I'd say that 'not agreeing' with someone being racist is a pretty good reason to not support said person.
[QUOTE=Oizen;52494604]Maybe I'm just unique in that I don't hold people's political opinions as the ultimate judge of their character.
Plus I'm capable of forming my own opinions and don't need a youtuber to tell me how to think.
But hey if you want to completetly run a guy out of his youtube channel for saying things you don't agree with, be my guest.[/QUOTE]
Normally I would agree, and I still like Jon as an entertainer. But these aren't just your normal, average, everyday opinions. This isn't "I prefer wheat bread" or "Sonic the Hedgehog has never been fun."
[QUOTE=Oizen;52494166]I'm honestly surprised so many of you actually give a shit about what he said.
I still think he's a hilarious youtuber and thats all I really care about.[/QUOTE]
You know you can do both right?
[QUOTE=Oizen;52494604]Maybe I'm just unique in that I don't hold people's political opinions as the ultimate judge of their character.
Plus I'm capable of forming my own opinions and don't need a youtuber to tell me how to think.
But hey if you want to completetly run a guy out of his youtube channel for saying things you don't agree with, be my guest.[/QUOTE]
I stopped going to a long-time barber because he was spewing some gross epithets the last time i was there. I go to a new place now where the barber doesn't say terrible things and my experience is much better. Even if the old barber had stopped talking about that stuff, it still wouldn't be as comfortable as a different place where i'd never have to be spoken to like that, and it was worth the minimal effort to find that new place.
And that's when my own money's involved. It's not like loyalty to a YouTube creator (who would never know you've "left") is a critical part of your identity.
If you'd like to see a world where famous people have less racist views, you can help by not supporting the people with more racist views. You don't owe them anything, and you don't have anything to prove to others who would judge you for it.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOQCltgX3xM&index=6&list=FLZ0m6xD9-W0jxWXmT5pEwdQ[/media]
Finally I can find a reason to post this.
JonTron isn't a racist, he's just a fucking idiot. We can all agree on that right?
Saying biracial marriage is wrong is pretty fucking racist.
[QUOTE=Steel Geography;52494916]JonTron isn't a racist, he's just a fucking idiot. We can all agree on that right?[/QUOTE]
He, without prompting, stated significant concern in the fact that immigrants will 'enter the gene pool'.
Seriously. That's pretty FUCKING RACIST.
[QUOTE=Keychain;52494782]Normally I would agree, and I still like Jon as an entertainer. But these aren't just your normal, average, everyday opinions. This isn't "I prefer wheat bread" or "Sonic the Hedgehog has never been fun."[/QUOTE]
This is one of the most obnoxious things I see used as an argument. People that say "well it's just their/my opinion!" equivocate inconsequential things like "I like vanilla ice cream more than chocolate ice cream" with "I think that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry and have kids" which grossly stifles any actual discussion of the merit of these things. Giving such bulletproof sanctity to extremely questionable viewpoints (often based in outright falsehoods) is some kind of bullshit. The viewpoints that people have, especially political and ideological ones, do reflect on ones character whether people would like them to or not.
[QUOTE=Steel Geography;52494916]JonTron isn't a racist, he's just a fucking idiot. We can all agree on that right?[/QUOTE]
No, no one will agree on that. Ignorance is not a defense when you publicly declare you believe a load of racist shit. He's a grown man who should know better.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52495445]No, no one will agree on that. Ignorance is not a defense when you publicly declare you believe a load of racist shit. He's a grown man who should know better.[/QUOTE]
People buy into dumbass ideas without thinking all the time.
I'm still not really convinced he's legitimately racist, just that he might have fallen for alt-right's hate rhetoric
[QUOTE=Zeos;52494939]He, without prompting, stated significant concern in the fact that immigrants will 'enter the gene pool'.
Seriously. That's pretty FUCKING RACIST.[/QUOTE]
Can we stop this please? He didn't say non-white people entering "genepool" is a bad thing. As fucked up as even bringing this up is, he didn't say it's a bad thing. He said people would be "free to chose" if they wanted to marry someone from a different race. He doesn't see a problem with it.
Why do people have to make shit up to make him look even worse? As if the things he [U]actually[/U] said aren't bad enough. Jon is a racist who thinks certain races are predisposed to certain behaviors. And that's what he should be called out for.
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