[QUOTE=thisispain;38674105]
yeah and i've never seen a camel.[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that most of this harassment occurs in console communities for popular games because that's all I really see. That's like going to the bad part of town and complaining about getting robbed or treated badly, really.
[I]Everyone insults everyone for everything[/I] in popular console games, the reason gender-related slurs are thrown at women is because it's the easiest way to piss them off, just like for men it's stuff about their mothers or homosexuality or something. It's an issue of perception. You're not getting called a bitch because you're a bitch and so are all women who play games, it's because it's by far the easiest way to piss you off.
I have not personally seen many instances of it, but I do not doubt that it happens all the time. I do not need to witness it to believe it.
I guess we're playing different games because I don't notice much objectification in what I'm playing. most of the games I've played recently just outright don't have any women in them, and the ones that do are E-rated games that couldn't get away with objectification
I mean I occasionally see some cleavage or a midriff but honestly I could just head to pretty much any place with lots of foot traffic and see dozens of girls with bare cleavage or midriff. nine times out of ten, media doesn't objectify women any worse than women objectify themselves.
I haven't seen anyone get harassed for being a woman in a game in years. it's just not as common a thing as people think
[QUOTE=thisispain;38674075]wow is still down ...
because it's an industry of men, sexualising women, for profit.
it's from the male perspective in any case. this isn't a made up thing, the male gaze has been part of criticism since the 50's.[/quote]
How does the sexualisation of characters relate to the community being sexist? It's not successful, it's universally criticised and with both male and female characters going to the sexualised/power fantasy cop-outs, it's more an issue of shitty writing and old cultural tropes than sexism.
[quote]uhm
no i don't know what you mean, you're not really making anything easy for me to understand.[/quote]
I'm half rambling and only have a few parts of that post making actual points so I don't have to repeat myself. It probably doesn't make sense.
[quote]no-one's done this
this isn't arguing[/quote]
Well a few pages ago, and there's a difference between arguing and debating. Arguing involves curse words and shitposting.
[quote]uh ok
so it's a video attacking fictional people, glad you agree[/quote]
Any actual organisation or legitimacy is a joke, but the people are there. Hell, even the idea that they exist is enough to fuel rage and send people against the cause.
[quote]yeah she's the oblivious one lol[/quote]
no, yur oblivious. see, i can do that too
[quote]new to the scene?
you make it sound like women were some new recent invention and we're just feeling the change from that invention.[/quote]
Fastest growing demographic means yeah, most of them are pretty new. You wanna be technical then yeah, there's been a small presence for ages, but online communities have always felt like a boys club and with a significant amount of new women joining, they're obviously going to feel threatened, that's just what happens in any male dominated environment.
[quote]uh yeah they did[/quote]
I don't remember black or gay gamers making a heap of youtube videos about how persecuted they were. People were pissed, but they didn't feed the trolls.
[quote]that's not what tumbler is
you're just making up shit now
no we aren't going to be keeping down any "stupidity" on the feminist side. "feminists" haven't done anything wrong here lol[/quote]
Blame don't mean shit. You want to be legitimate and attract people who might be sitting on the fence, you don't let the far wing hijack your message and polarise everyone. If they're wrong, they're wrong, don't think that just because they're vaguely on your side means you can't criticise them.
[quote]lmao
don't pretend for a second you're arguing right now because you want to reach a more rational position. you haven't even read anything
you're probably not even reading this post[/QUOTE]
Wow, I care a lot about what you think man, and you just gotta keep bringing me down.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38674205]
I haven't seen anyone get harassed for being a woman in a game in years. it's just not as common a thing as people think[/QUOTE]
I've seen it happen quite a bit. It is just more common a thing than people think.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38674205]I guess we're playing different games because I don't notice much objectification in what I'm playing. most of the games I've played recently just outright don't have any women in them, and the ones that do are E-rated games that couldn't get away with objectification
I mean I occasionally see some cleavage or a midriff but honestly I could just head to pretty much any place with lots of foot traffic and see dozens of girls with bare cleavage or midriff. nine times out of ten, media doesn't objectify women any worse than women objectify themselves.
I haven't seen anyone get harassed for being a woman in a game in years. it's just not as common a thing as people think[/QUOTE]
I think I only saw a chick get harassed once in TF2 server years ago back before the medic update, and the douchebag that was doing it got banned pretty fast.
That kind of stuff just doesn't happen very much on PC. If anything its mostly prevalent on Xbox Live.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;38674241]I've seen it happen quite a bit. It is just more common a thing than people think.[/QUOTE]
sorry but you're playing terrible games with shit communities.
maybe it's just a console gaming thing. I play some immensely popular games on PC and don't see any of that
[QUOTE=zombojoe;38674247]I think I only saw a chick get harassed once in TF2 server years ago back before the medic update, and the douchebag that was doing it got banned pretty fast.
That kind of stuff just doesn't happen very much on PC. If anything its mostly prevalent on Xbox Live.[/QUOTE]
If you're playing CoD on Xbox and wondering why the people are abusive and immature, I think you've got bigger problems than sexism.
The immaturity of communities is very sporadic, even within the same game and platform. If it's too bad, take advice from the Cyberbully movie and just ignore it. People grow out of it with age and the overall culture changes with good examples rather than bad ones, never feed the troll.
I game almost exclusively on PC and haven't touched either of my consoles in years so no that isn't true either.
Also just watched the video, typical mistakes of straw feminism, dumb memecreator memes from MRAs, mistaking sexualization of male characters with male power fantasies, and worse of all the logic that because people call me fat for being an American I have the moral obligation to call women bitches and whores for being women. This video adds absolutely nothing to the conversation and everyone who rated it agree should feel ashamed. This is FP, leave that shit to reddit. We are better than that.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38674147]I'm gonna go ahead and assume that most of this harassment occurs in console communities for popular games because that's all I really see. That's like going to the bad part of town and complaining about getting robbed or treated badly, really.[/QUOTE]
uhm you're free to assume anything you want
as long as you understand it doesn't mean anything
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38674147][I]Everyone insults everyone for everything[/I] in popular console games, the reason gender-related slurs are thrown at women is because it's the easiest way to piss them off, just like for men it's stuff about their mothers or homosexuality or something. It's an issue of perception. You're not getting called a bitch because you're a bitch and so are all women who play games, it's because it's by far the easiest way to piss you off.[/QUOTE]
who fucking cares about the reason
[editline]2nd December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38674205]I haven't seen anyone get harassed for being a woman in a game in years. it's just not as common a thing as people think[/QUOTE]
all the women i know personally have been harassed for being women
anecdote v. anecdote it doesn't really mean anything
You're all probably on shit communities
Ask yourselves if squeaky voiced children, fat sounding people, and foreigners were marginalized and insulted in the games and platforms you've played where women were treated like shit. And if the women who were insulted were insulted because they came into the game and their voices were female or if they constantly rubbed it in with that "I'M A GAMER GIRL" "YOU GOT BEATEN BY A GIRL" shit, if they had any sort of unlikable attitude, or were bad at the game.
There are tons of reasons for people to get insulted, specially on online gaming communities where anonymity and competition are the names of the game. "I'm a woman and I got insulted in a videogame, therefore women are marginalized in videogames just because of their gender"
[QUOTE]who fucking cares about the reason[/QUOTE]
women and everyone defending them, apparently
there's a big difference between getting insulted because you're a woman and getting insulted because you suck
It was not matter what community it is on. It is wrong and we have a civic duty to stop it.
Even when it seems impossible, we should always be striving to make people act less like assholes.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38674352]You're all probably on shit communities[/QUOTE]
This thread isn't about validating whatever game/game community you come from compared to others, it's an issue bigger than that.
[QUOTE]Ask yourselves if squeaky voiced children, fat sounding people, and foreigners were marginalized and insulted in the games and platforms you've played where women were treated like shit. And if the women who were insulted were insulted because they came into the game and their voices were female or if they constantly rubbed it in with that "I'M A GAMER GIRL" "YOU GOT BEATEN BY A GIRL" shit, if they had any sort of unlikable attitude, or were bad at the game.
[/QUOTE]
This is the worst defense I've ever heard. So because people already make fun of kids, fat people, and foreigners it should be automatically accepted that women (ie 50% of the population) should enter the world of multiplayer video games with the knowledge that they are going to be harassed purely because of their gender? Excuse me but fuck that. I actually care where gaming goes as a hobby and I'd rather the standards be higher.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;38674233]How does the sexualisation of characters relate to the community being sexist?[/QUOTE]
because the gaming community reacts with incredible scorn any time anyone questions it.
not to mention the whole Cross Assault incident where some of the gaming community was blaming the victim of abuse, instead of the actual abuser.
even then it's not really relevant? it's still embarrassing. you can argue all day about if they are sexist or not, but it's still incredibly embarrassing.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;38674233]no, yur oblivious. see, i can do that too[/QUOTE]
yeah i know you can do that to, you actually did it when i quoted you lmao
[QUOTE=Devodiere;38674233]they're obviously going to feel threatened, that's just what happens in any male dominated environment.[/QUOTE]
they feel threatened because no-one cares enough to put a stop to it. we dismiss it as "part of the culture", that's why it continues.
that's how social codes work, they are enforced by the greater community interacting with each other. if the great community doesn't care enough to enforce it it'll continue.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;38674233] you don't let the far wing hijack your message and polarise everyone.[/QUOTE]
who's hijacking anything ahha
the subject in the OP are meme generators ffs
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38674352]And if the women who were insulted were insulted because they came into the game and their voices were female or if they constantly rubbed it in with that "I'M A GAMER GIRL" "YOU GOT BEATEN BY A GIRL" shit, if they had any sort of unlikable attitude, or were bad at the game.[/QUOTE]
i don't know dude
again who cares. why is any of that important? it's just dribble.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38674352]There are tons of reasons for people to get insulted, specially on online gaming communities where anonymity and competition are the names of the game. "I'm a woman and I got insulted in a videogame, therefore women are marginalized in videogames just because of their gender"[/QUOTE]
yeah i'm sure you could justify it all week
still not relevant
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38674352]women and everyone defending them, apparently
there's a big difference between getting insulted because you're a woman and getting insulted because you suck[/QUOTE]
no there isn't.
in the end
it's the same
exact
shit
these are all pointless justifications for what is ultimately stupid and annoying. i don't know how to stop or get rid of it, and i don't claim to.
but i'm not going to pretend like it's hunky dory just because there are possible subtle differences in reasoning or game communities.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;38674370]This thread isn't about validating whatever game/game community you come from compared to others, it's an issue bigger than that.
This is the worst defense I've ever heard. So because people already make fun of kids, fat people, and foreigners it should be automatically accepted that women (ie 50% of the population) should enter the world of multiplayer video games with the knowledge that they are going to be harassed purely because of their gender? Excuse me but fuck that. I actually care where gaming goes as a hobby and I'd rather the standards be higher.[/QUOTE]
that aggressively feminist brain of yours has a knack for seeing shit that isn't there
I'm not saying that women get harassed because of their gender. I'm saying that people in general are harassed because they're annoying or unlikable, and in the experiences I've had with women being harassed in videogames, it was because they were awful at the game, unlikable, or did that stupid shit where they thought they were special or better because they were women, and couldn't stop reminding everyone about that.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38674402]that feminist brain of yours has a knack for seeing shit that isn't there [/QUOTE]
what a joke of an insult
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38674402]that aggressively feminist brain of yours has a knack for seeing shit that isn't there
I'm not saying that women get harassed because of their gender. I'm saying that people in general are harassed because they're annoying or unlikable, and in the experiences I've had with women being harassed in videogames, it was because they were awful at the game, unlikable, or did that stupid shit where they thought they were special or better because they were women, and couldn't stop reminding everyone about that.[/QUOTE]
gamers are toxic so its okay if theyre toxic to women is an awful argument
[editline]2nd December 2012[/editline]
also this conjured woman gamer that likes to remind everyone shes a girl gamer doesnt exist
The best tactic for any aspiring ignorant person or misogynist is to create a gigantic straw feminist gamer lesbian femnazi "die cis scum" tumblr user who likes to remind everyone she is a girl gamer too
I know this because a friend of mine graduated from Reddit with a Misogyneering degree and a Minor in Mansplaining.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38674402]
I'm not saying that women get harassed because of their gender. I'm saying that people in general are harassed because they're annoying or unlikable, and in the experiences I've had with women being harassed in videogames, it was because they were awful at the game, unlikable, or did that stupid shit where they thought they were special or better because they were women, and couldn't stop reminding everyone about that.[/QUOTE]
Again: People are assholes already so we might as well through some misogynistic slurs in there as well because they happen to be female.
Also I don't know why you are "not saying women get harassed because of their gender" when it's a well documented thing that happens every day despite your pointless anecdotes.
[editline]2nd December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;38674413]what a joke of an insult[/QUOTE]
Being called a feminist on FP is the best compliment I've received in awhile. Does wonders for ones ego.
[QUOTE=thisispain;38674377]because the gaming community reacts with incredible scorn any time anyone questions it.
not to mention the whole Cross Assault incident where some of the gaming community was blaming the victim of abuse, instead of the actual abuser.
even then it's not really relevant? it's still embarrassing. you can argue all day about if they are sexist or not, but it's still incredibly embarrassing.[/quote]
I guess it again depends on the community because it's becoming more and more common to criticise sexualising them. Whether it be Mass Effect giving every female character a boob job and it people noticed and hated it, or that Bioshock Infinite shit where they have changed her a bit so it's less LOOK AT THESE HUGE TITS. Definitely get rid of it, doesn't matter if it's sexist or not, it's just shit.
[quote]they feel threatened because no-one cares enough to put a stop to it. we dismiss it as "part of the culture", that's why it continues.
that's how social codes work, they are enforced by the greater community interacting with each other. if the great community doesn't care enough to enforce it it'll continue.[/quote]
Well there's white knights but that's not really the same. Plenty of people are against it, even /v/, but it's a zeitgeist and enforcing a no sexism policy isn't absolute and it takes a while to actually change minds. Attitudes are getting better, but they're not going to change overnight and certainly not going to reach the dark corners.
[quote]who's hijacking anything ahha
the subject in the OP are meme generators ffs[/QUOTE]
Man you posted a video of Anita, you know the shitstorm from here video games kickstarter thing. Grrrrl gamers who want attention, Anita claiming everything is sexist even the most benign things, people who get mad about it rather than just ignoring or otherwise properly dealing with people being inflamatory, it doesn't help at all and it gets people who might have been open to it mad as fuck. You're not going to stop people from doing stupid shit like that, but you can at least criticise them for being stupid when they are and give examples of female gamers that don't pose seducively with an xbox controller.
[quote]these are all pointless justifications for what is ultimately stupid and annoying. i don't know how to stop or get rid of it, and i don't claim to.
but i'm not going to pretend like it's hunky dory just because there are possible subtle differences in reasoning or game communities.[/quote]
I think that's where I differ from a lot of people, I don't give a shit about blame or justifications, I prefer looking at what can be done about it. What the root cause of the problem is gives an idea of how to fix it. Going from poorly written sexist characters to poorly written non-sexist characters isn't a big step. Figuring out how to manage the PR of the movement and what steps can help rather than hinder is also good. I don't know everything, but looking at it through a different lens is always helpful.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;38674576]Definitely get rid of it, doesn't matter if it's sexist or not, it's just shit.[/QUOTE]
then what's the problem?
[QUOTE=Devodiere;38674576]Well there's white knights but that's not really the same. Plenty of people are against it, even /v/, but it's a zeitgeist and enforcing a no sexism policy isn't absolute and it takes a while to actually change minds. Attitudes are getting better, but they're not going to change overnight and certainly not going to reach the dark corners.[/QUOTE]
no-one's expecting them to change overnight
[QUOTE=Devodiere;38674576]Anita claiming everything is sexist even the most benign things,[/QUOTE]
she's never done such a thing. why do you insist in distorting people's viewpoints
[QUOTE=Devodiere;38674576]I think that's where I differ from a lot of people, I don't give a shit about blame or justifications,[/QUOTE]
neither do i
it seems like we don't really disagree, i just have an issue with you distorting some people's views. calling people feminists and stretching their viewpoints to unreasonable points that no-one wants to argue isn't fun to argue with
[editline]2nd December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;38674630]
You run every bloody thread you post in straight into the ground.[/QUOTE]
rip thread with terrible video
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;38674630][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzaUrL06s6c#t=18s[/media]
[editline]2nd December 2012[/editline]
You run every bloody thread you post in straight into the ground.[/QUOTE]
HaHaHa
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38672040] how often is someone called out for having a deep voice or sounding too masculine?[/QUOTE]
I'm constantly called a pedophile on Garrysmod DarkRP for having a really deep soothing voice + Australian accent.
you lie
Oh good, I came in this thread last night when all it had was a bunch of agrees and I was like fucking what
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38674262]sorry but you're playing terrible games with shit communities.
maybe it's just a console gaming thing. I play some immensely popular games on PC and don't see any of that[/QUOTE]
I think that females have it worse.
[url]http://fatuglyorslutty.com/[/url]
As a male gamer, at least I don't have to experience sexual harassment constantly by using my voice.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;38676539]I think that females have it worse.
[url]http://fatuglyorslutty.com/[/url]
As a male gamer, at least I don't have to experience sexual harassment constantly by using my voice.[/QUOTE]
[img_thumb]http://fatuglyorslutty.com/wp-content/uploads/my_god_i_got_muted_by_virgins-2.jpg[/img_thumb]
hahaha what the fuck
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;38676539]I think that females have it worse.
[url]http://fatuglyorslutty.com/[/url]
As a male gamer, at least I don't have to experience sexual harassment constantly by using my voice.[/QUOTE]
Them replying to those messages doesn't make it any better. Block, report, etc.
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;38676761]Them replying to those messages doesn't make it any better. Block, report, etc.[/QUOTE]
So you're telling me you wouldn't reply to someone insulting you in a videogame or here in FP?
ok
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;38676808]So you're telling me you wouldn't reply to someone insulting you in a videogame or here in FP?
ok[/QUOTE]
Yes. If I come across some thug swag gangstas who try to start an argument with me because I killed them CoD or something, I press the mute button. It's happened before. I just want to play the game.
I've never truly been insulted on fp though so idk
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;38676761]Them replying to those messages doesn't make it any better. Block, report, etc.[/QUOTE]
I don't think we should be focusing on the victim here.
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