Double Standards In Gaming - General

why does one of my favourite pastimes have to be infested with such manchildren as this

[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;38689882]and so if it's the other way around, it's evil and misogynistic?[/QUOTE] No. If it's to indulge your personal interests/get better at drawing doing anatomy studies then I don't see the problem. It's when characters in media (something that will be seen by a lot of people) are portrayed unrealistically by being oversexualized that it becomes a problem.

[QUOTE=Ryu-Gi;38689878]Here's my own little interjection into this discussion. I'm perfectly fine with letting girls design their own sexualized male characters. Let them have their fun. For instance, one of my female friends has a guilty pleasure of drawing male characters shirtless. A lot. I poke fun at her sometimes for it, but I recognize that it's just something she likes. I don't mind these sorts of pretty-boy type characters, so long as they're not written as completely stupid Twilight rip-offs. They can have their submissive neko guys with leashes. I see no problem with it.[/QUOTE] I'd just like to point out that people designing their own characters, male or female, doesn't really address any of the issues that have been brought up since it's all fan content and is not the industry standard necessarily and gives options to people instead of institutionalizes one. It's a wee bit irreverent is all I'm saying.

[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;38689882]and so if it's the other way around, it's evil and misogynistic?[/QUOTE] Not quite sure I follow. I simply meant that male character designers have gotten away with a lot of sexy female designs, I'm simply saying let the girls make sexy male designs and it'll all balance out. I'm not offended by these sort of female-pandering type male characters at all. I see no reason to. If it's what they like, let them have their fun.

[QUOTE=Ryu-Gi;38689878]Here's my own little interjection into this discussion. I'm perfectly fine with letting girls design their own sexualized male characters. Let them have their fun. For instance, one of my female friends has a guilty pleasure of drawing male characters shirtless. A lot. I poke fun at her sometimes for it, but I recognize that it's just something she likes. I don't mind these sorts of pretty-boy type characters, so long as they're not written as completely stupid Twilight rip-offs. They can have their submissive neko guys with leashes. I see no problem with it.[/QUOTE] I don't see how fan art is relevant to actual character design. [editline]3rd December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ryu-Gi;38690203]Not quite sure I follow. I simply meant that male character designers have gotten away with a lot of sexy female designs, I'm simply saying let the girls make sexy male designs and it'll all balance out. I'm not offended by these sort of female-pandering type male characters at all. I see no reason to. If it's what they like, let them have their fun.[/QUOTE] 2 wrongs don't make a right. How about we don't make over sexualized female character at all?

I guess you're not considering art made by a non-professional as character design? It still is CHARACTER DESIGN, even if the artist isn't making money off of it. I simply think that to balance things out, that there should be more attractive male characters in published works to balance things out. Letting non proffessional female character designers embrace their own interests seems like a good first step. This way everyone's happy.

[QUOTE=Ryu-Gi;38690279]I guess you're not considering art made by a non-professional as character design? It still is CHARACTER DESIGN, even if the artist isn't making money off of it. I simply think that to balance things out, that there should be more attractive male characters in published works to balance things out. Letting non proffessional female character designers embrace their own interests seems like a good first step. This way everyone's happy.[/QUOTE] Hahahaha! No. It's not professional character design. It's not what's going to be on the boxart. It's not what is pushed on people. It's not what's there for the final game. Unless it's going into the final game it balances jack shit. People can make fanart of whatever they want, and they will, and they have. It however does not elevate it to the main stream, and like all fan art it will be ignored and ridiculed. It will change nothing and merely serve as the excuse you used.

[QUOTE=Ryu-Gi;38690279]I guess you're not considering art made by a non-professional as character design? It still is CHARACTER DESIGN, even if the artist isn't making money off of it. I simply think that to balance things out, that there should be more attractive male characters in published works to balance things out. Letting non proffessional female character designers embrace their own interests seems like a good first step. This way everyone's happy.[/QUOTE] I have a hard time taking you seriously here when you've made shit like this [t]http://s15.postimage.org/74r3hukp7/update_6_15_2012.jpg[/t] Instead of "balancing things out" by making over sexualized male characters along side over sexualized female ones, why don't we have neither. Theres no reason to do it unless it somehow adds to the character/story, which it rarely ever does. And your friend making amateur fan-arts of a character is not the same as a professional making a character design that gets used in a video game.

[QUOTE=doomkiwi;38690447]Hahahaha! No. It's not professional character design. It's not what's going to be on the boxart. It's not what is pushed on people. It's not what's there for the final game. Unless it's going into the final game it balances jack shit. People can make fanart of whatever they want, and they will, and they have. It however does not elevate it to the main stream, and like all fan art it will be ignored and ridiculed. It will change nothing and merely serve as the excuse you used.[/QUOTE] Well fine. At the very least I wish that more professional developers would allow women to design the male characters in a way that they themselves would find attractive. Are you guys all seriously offended by the idea of sexualized male characters? That's kind of funny.

[QUOTE=Ryu-Gi;38690530]Well fine. At the very least I wish that more professional developers would allow women to design the male characters in a way that they themselves would find attractive. Are you guys all seriously offended by the idea of sexualized male characters? That's kind of funny.[/QUOTE] I'm not offended by it, over sexualization typically degrades a character regardless if they're male or female. Not only does it degrade the character itself but it typically degrades their gender. It's just an unnecessary addition to try and get people to buy their game.

[QUOTE=Ryu-Gi;38690530]Are you guys all seriously offended by the idea of sexualized male characters? That's kind of funny.[/QUOTE] I think you're missing the point we're trying to make.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;38690725]I'm not offended by it, over sexualization typically degrades a character regardless if they're male or female. Not only does it degrade the character itself but it typically degrades their gender. It's just an unnecessary addition to try and get people to buy their game.[/QUOTE] It can be that, but it doesn't have to be. Sexualized doesn't automatically mean shallow, it's just that these characters are designed to pander usually. Even that's not necessarily a problem though. Yes, generally speaking I would rather have actual characters, but to say there's absolutely no room for pandering ever is a bit far I think. I think the real problem is how overboard it's gotten; it kind of reminds me of the Bechdel test. The problem isn't that any given film or character fails the test, it's that such a ridiculous majority does in such a one sided way.

[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;38683333]Are you kidding? In the later games it ties into the greater universe and expands her as a character, and connects the game universe to the comic universe (which is fucking giant and well developed, from what I've seen) that centers around her.[/QUOTE] there is like one actual canon metroid comic that came out with super metroid that's it. it is not "giant" by any means who so ever.

[QUOTE=1STrandomman;38691047]It can be that, but it doesn't have to be. Sexualized doesn't automatically mean shallow, it's just that these characters are designed to pander usually. Even that's not necessarily a problem though. Yes, generally speaking I would rather have actual characters, but to say there's absolutely no room for pandering ever is a bit far I think. I think the real problem is how overboard it's gotten; it kind of reminds me of the Bechdel test. The problem isn't that any given film or character fails the test, it's that such a ridiculous majority does in such a one sided way.[/QUOTE] If a character is over sexualized it doesn't mean they have bad writing, it just makes the character harder to take seriously. Like mentioned earlier, in "Ghost in the Shell" The main character has great writing, a great backstory, but she's hard to take seriously at times because shes wearing corset and stockings. Another example is Black Lagoon, the main female character in that is dressed in a sports bra and short-shorts but has great character development, but her outfit makes her hard to take seriously at times.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;38691150]If a character is over sexualized it doesn't mean they have bad writing, it just makes the character harder to take seriously. Like mentioned earlier, in "Ghost in the Shell" The main character has great writing, a great backstory, but she's hard to take seriously at times because shes wearing corset and stockings. Another example is Black Lagoon, the main female character in that is dressed in a sports bra and short-shorts but has great character development, but her outfit makes her hard to take seriously at times.[/QUOTE] How a character dresses is part of the character. When I watched GITS I had absolutely no problems with that.