If your son/daughter were to get a sex change, would you think of them any differently? - General

Sweet, transphobia and ignorance on an adolescent internet forum. Keep it up guys! :bravo: To Darkon Ta Dra: You [b]cannot[/b] get a sex change operation in the United States without a [b]significant[/b] amount of time spent in counseling. I'm not talking a couple weeks or something here; these operations are treated [b]very[/b] seriously by the medical community.

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900085]you aren't born in a poorly-fitted suit and there's a difference between going from your proper anatomy to a science experiment and getting clothes that fit you better[/QUOTE] It is a metaphor. Or maybe an Analogy. Meant to make a concept more comprehensive.

[QUOTE=Darkon Ta Dra;27895922]I was talking about exactly that. Fucking. Not about sex, but about sexuality. Because I answered to someone elses post, who said something about throwing your sexuality into everyones faces. Being transgender is not about sexuality, at least not about throwing it into anyones face. That's an entirely different matter. Being transgender is about ones own feeling of being a man in a womans body, or vice versa. And that is why I used the term gender in this manner, and sexuality in opposition to that. And yes, there are still many gender specific roles in our oh so modern world. I don't even mean the old cliches of the man repairing the car and the woman staying in the kitchen and cleaning the house. But there are many other gender specific roles still accepted as true in our society. And for most of us, these roles feel natural to fill. For transgenders, it doesn't. But it goes much deeper than that. It literally goes under the skin. Like I tried to explain in the analogy of the non fitting suit, transgender is not only about roles, but about the whole being itself. I agree, some people think they are transgendered because they are not happy with their bodies. Or with their roles in their life, but aren't really transgendered. That happens. But there are also people, where all these factors come together. These people are really transgendered. Would you as a man like to be forced into a dress your whole life? Would you like if your manliness is questioned? Now imagine a man who was born in a womans body. She is pressed into that role that just feels wrong. She has to deal with a body that just feels wrong. And if she says she's a man inside, she will probably be laughed at people who don't understand her. And if this woman then tries to change her life in a way that she can be truly happy, by wearing what feels right, trousers, shirts. By behaving like a man. By taking hormones and by surgery. Would this really be that hard to understand? [b]Just to be the person you really are.[/b] To appear outside as you feel inside all your life.[/QUOTE] not only is that incredibly ironic but you wasted a few paragraphs just to wind up to "they should be who they are, not as in what they actually are but just what they want to be [sp]but aren't[/sp]" [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mane;27900132]Sweet, transphobia and ignorance on an adolescent internet forum. Keep it up guys! :bravo: To Darkon Ta Dra: You [b]cannot[/b] get a sex change operation in the United States without a [b]significant[/b] amount of time spent in counseling. I'm not talking a couple weeks or something here; these operations are treated [b]very[/b] seriously by the medical community.[/QUOTE] so the reason you always say you're not gay is because you think there's a difference between being gay and transgendered? do you think you're a woman, just not [i]actually[/i] a woman?

I have a unisex name and I have always thought if I was a woman, I'd be elegant as fuck. :smile:

[QUOTE=Mane;27900132]Sweet, transphobia and ignorance on an adolescent internet forum. Keep it up guys! :bravo: To Darkon Ta Dra: You [b]cannot[/b] get a sex change operation in the United States without a [b]significant[/b] amount of time spent in counseling. I'm not talking a couple weeks or something here; these operations are treated [b]very[/b] seriously by the medical community.[/QUOTE] Lets [b]bold[/b] things so they sound very [b]serious[/b] Also, I see no transphobia

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[QUOTE=Android phone;27900204]so the reason you always say you're not gay is because you think there's a difference between being gay and transgendered? do you think you're a woman, just not [i]actually[/i] a woman?[/QUOTE] There are [b]huge[/b] differences between being gay and transgendered. That you're even asking this question plainly demonstrates your total ignorance on the topic. Sexuality and gender are not the same thing. Transgendered people tend to have gender dysphoria disorder. They also tend to be heterosexual (based on their true gender and not their biological sex). Gay people don't have the former, and by the definition of homosexuality, don't have the latter.

[QUOTE=Mane;27900324]They also tend to be heterosexual (based on their true gender and not their biological sex).[/QUOTE] how to test you true gender: 1. do you have a dick A1. yes > you're a guy A2. no > you're a girl problem solved

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900355]how to test you true gender: 1. do you have a dick A1. yes > you're a guy A2. no > you're a girl problem solved[/QUOTE] Sex and gender aren't the same thing. This is something you learn in an introductory Psychology class. Here's the World Health Organization weighing in on this very difficult to understand topic: [url]http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/[/url] :allears:

[QUOTE=Mane;27900363]Sex and gender aren't the same thing. This is something you learn in an introductory Psychology class.[/QUOTE] have you covered opinions yet?

he is in the fourth grade

They're not contributing to the Species they are not human [sp]Not my True view, Just sounded funny in my head[/sp]

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900388]have you covered opinions yet?[/QUOTE] The distinction between sex and gender isn't an opinion. Unless you argue things like schizophrenia or anorexia are also opinions. You're welcome to have an opinion. Just remember that you can't hide behind it when someone points out that your opinion on a topic involving science isn't well supported by the scientific community.

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27900392]he is in the fourth grade[/QUOTE] ur realy dumb XD

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900388]have you covered opinions yet?[/QUOTE] In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental illness. According you [i]people who know more about the human mind than you[/i] (psychologists and psychiatrists with PhDs), it is not a defect. Your "well it's just an opinion that being gay isnt a choice" argument does not stand up to objective science corroborated with case studies and data.

[QUOTE=Mane;27900437]The distinction between sex and gender isn't an opinion. Unless you argue things like schizophrenia or anorexia are also opinions. You're welcome to have an opinion. Just remember that you can't hide behind it when someone points out that your opinion on a topic involving science isn't well supported by the scientific community.[/QUOTE] talking about true gender is like talking about good art some agree, some think it's total horseshit what is true gender, how is it defined, why is it defined that way, why is your way more correct than mine [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27900450]In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental illness. According you people who know more about the human mind than you (psychologists and psychiatrists with PhD), it is not a defect.[/QUOTE] since when is a mental illness not a defect, any kind of mental illness

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900204]not only is that incredibly ironic but you wasted a few paragraphs just to wind up to "they should be who they are, not as in what they actually are but just what they want to be [sp]but aren't[/sp]" [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] so the reason you always say you're not gay is because you think there's a difference between being gay and transgendered? do you think you're a woman, just not [i]actually[/i] a woman?[/QUOTE] You are misinterpreting what I said. If you take the last sentence into context too, my point becomes clearer. To be the person who you really are, inside [b]and[/b] outside. And a transgendered, for example male to female, is not gay if she likes men. She is straight. Just the body doesn't fit her preference. And before you say that all gay peoples bodies don't fit then, there is a distinction between gay and transgender. Gay people are ok with their bodies, they just like other people with the same kind of bodies as well.

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900472]talking about true gender is like talking about good art some agree, some think it's total horseshit what is true gender, how is it defined, why is it defined that way, why is your way more correct than mine[/QUOTE] What exactly do you mean by true gender? Does that mean there is a fake gender? Oh, I see that I used the words "true gender" earlier. It means "self-reported gender." That's my fault for being a little lazy with my writing. Ultimately, the most important evaluation of one's gender comes from [i]that[/i] person. No one else can validly make a judgment on what gender a person "should" be. The very notion that someone else can validly evaluate or judge someone else's gender is pretty disgusting and pathetic to me.

No, I would still love them and respect their decision.

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900472]talking about true gender is like talking about good art some agree, some think it's total horseshit what is true gender, how is it defined, why is it defined that way, why is your way more correct than mine [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] since when is a mental illness not a defect, any kind of mental illness[/QUOTE] Inversely, Why is your way more correct then others? Is what should be asking.

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900472] since when is a mental illness not a defect, any kind of mental illness[/QUOTE] they [B]DE[/B]classified it. they removed it from the list of mental illnesses read more carefully

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27900520]they [B]DE[/B]classified it. they removed it from the list of mental illnesses read more carefully[/QUOTE] I heavilly suspect he is misreading in order to continue his arguments.

[QUOTE=nekosune;27900582]I heavilly suspect he is misreading in order to continue his arguments.[/QUOTE] I would be impressed if he actually knew what the DSM was.

[QUOTE=nekosune;27900582]I heavilly suspect he is misreading in order to continue his arguments.[/QUOTE] i heavily suspect he should stop posting or i'm going to deliver a series of wykked elbow slams to his throat

I heavily suggest that we should get back on the topic

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900472]talking about true gender is like talking about good art[/QUOTE] With the difference that you don't have to live as a painting 24/7/365. But you have to live your gender all the time. Besides, there are psychological, neurological endocrinological and sociological studies that do count transgender as a medical condition. Thus as a real thing.

[QUOTE=Mane;27900494]What exactly do you mean by true gender? Does that mean there is a fake gender? Oh, I see that I used the words "true gender" earlier. It means "self-reported gender." That's my fault for being a little lazy with my writing. Ultimately, the most important evaluation of one's gender comes from [i]that[/i] person. No one else can validly make a judgment on what gender a person "should" be. The very notion that someone else can validly evaluate or judge someone else's gender is pretty disgusting and pathetic to me.[/QUOTE] now let's replace the word "gender" with "art" [img]http://gyazo.com/5e57b1fdebbe79bb5852b3a2e68e9768.png[/img] this is my picture my picture is the most incredible work of art that has ever existed, because I said so your point is invalid [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Homophobia, again" - TH89))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;27900632]I heavily suggest that we should get back on the topic[/QUOTE] That's a great idea. If my child ended up being transgendered, I would love them as much as ever. Nothing would change in terms of that. They're already going to experience awful shit from a lot of ignorant and/or hateful people out there so why the fuck would I, their parent, add on to that? That's pure fucking evil right there. [QUOTE=Android phone;27900663]now let's replace the word "gender" with "art" this is my picture my picture is the most incredible work of art that has ever existed, because I said so your point is invalid[/QUOTE] Why are you trying to conflate aesthetics with scientific definitions?

[QUOTE=Mane;27900687]That's a great idea. If my child ended up being transgendered, I would love them as much as ever. Nothing would change in terms of that. They're already going to experience awful shit from a lot of ignorant and/or hateful people out there so why the fuck would I, their parent, add on to that? That's pure fucking evil right there.[/QUOTE] I get the feeling you would only love them if [del]there was something wrong with them[/del] they were transgendered

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900742]I get the feeling you would only love them if [del]there was something wrong with them[/del] they were transgendered[/QUOTE] Nope, I'd love them regardless of what they end up being. That's part of what being a parent is about. By the way, mods can see edit history; your spinelessness isn't really going to help you.