If your son/daughter were to get a sex change, would you think of them any differently? - General

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900663]now let's replace the word "gender" with "art" [img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/5e57b1fdebbe79bb5852b3a2e68e9768.png[/img_thumb] this is my picture my picture is the most incredible work of art that has ever existed, because I said so your point is invalid[/QUOTE] Then again, so is yours. If the picture could state an opinion, now that would be valid. We are talking about a self stated art. You may be the producer of said art, like a parent would be, but you are not the art itself. Your art has to state its art. Then your analogy would be fitting. In the way you are putting it, it's not.

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900742]I get the feeling you would only love them if [del]there was something wrong with them[/del] they were transgendered[/QUOTE] stop talking you still haven't properly responded to this post: [QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27900450]In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association [B]de[/B]classified homosexuality as a mental illness. According you [I]people who know more about the human mind than you[/I] (psychologists and psychiatrists with PhDs), it is not a defect. Your "well it's just an opinion that being gay isnt a choice" argument does not stand up to objective science corroborated with case studies and data.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mane;27900775]Nope, I'd love them regardless of what they end up being. That's part of what being a parent is about. By the way, mods can see edit history; your spinelessness isn't really going to help you.[/QUOTE] I predicted you'd shit yourself over it, plainly I don't give a fuck if they do see it, just please don't get hung up on it like you did when you shit up the bc2 megathread

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900868]I predicted you'd shit yourself over it, plainly I don't give a fuck if they do see it, just please don't get hung up on it like you did when you shit up the bc2 megathread[/QUOTE] You're the one holding a grudge and making weird MS Paint images :) It's okay, at least we'll never have to worry about you having children.

I'd blame my ambivalent genes.

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900868]I predicted you'd shit yourself over it, plainly I don't give a fuck if they do see it, just please don't get hung up on it like you did when you shit up the bc2 megathread[/QUOTE] no, really man, respond to it

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27900856]stop talking you still haven't properly responded to this post:[/QUOTE] there are two reasons I can think of that they declassified it 1. political correctness bullshit 2. opinion if transexual bodies don't develop the same way regular human bodies do it's a defect, same as downs syndrome, same as elephantitus, but for some reason it definitely shouldn't be classified the same way I'm not going to spend half an hour reading a bunch of shit I don't care about and get the gist of already, paraphrase it if you want to keep debating that point

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27900929]no, really man, respond to it[/QUOTE] He is pure and simply, a troll, he is not going to actually respond to even the most basic of logic.

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900868]I predicted you'd shit yourself over it, plainly I don't give a fuck if they do see it, just please don't get hung up on it like you did when you shit up the bc2 megathread[/QUOTE] Deducing from your foul language, I assume you are running out of (more or less) logical arguments. Insulting other people will not help your opinion, nor your personality.

[QUOTE=Mane;27900915]You're the one holding a grudge and making weird MS Paint images :) It's okay, at least we'll never have to worry about you having children.[/QUOTE] of course I'll have children, I'm a man and I know I'm a man, I don't try to deny the fact that I have a dick and I'm happy with it :) so tell me, just wondering, if a kid is born with freckles but doesn't think they're a freckles kind of person, do they truly have freckles? or how about redheads, or black people, or germans? just because they're born a certain way doesn't mean they're really like that, right?

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900945]there are two reasons I can think of that they declassified it 1. political correctness bullshit 2. opinion if transexual bodies don't develop the same way regular human bodies do it's a defect, same as downs syndrome, same as elephantitus, but for some reason it definitely shouldn't be classified the same way I'm not going to spend half an hour reading a bunch of shit I don't care about and get the gist of already, paraphrase it if you want to keep debating that point[/QUOTE] They declassified homosexuality as a mental illness because there's nothing biologically bad about being gay. The only problems gay people face are problems caused by institutional and social homophobia. It has nothing to do with political correctness or opinion. The above has been validated over and over again by the scientific community in a wide variety of research disciplines like psychology, neuroscience, and public health. And there is something called gender identity disorder. But that doesn't mean transgendered people have to be treated with less dignity than everyone else.

[QUOTE=Darkon Ta Dra;27900977]Deducing from your foul language, I assume you are running out of (more or less) logical arguments. Insulting other people will not help your opinion, nor your personality.[/QUOTE] "he said a bad word he's really dumb" I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to use ad hominem in debates as long as that isn't your entire debate go ahead and say it is my entire debate, prove you haven't read any of my posts

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900945]there are two reasons I can think of that they declassified it 1. political correctness bullshit 2. opinion if transexual bodies don't develop the same way regular human bodies do it's a defect, same as downs syndrome, same as elephantitus, but for some reason it definitely shouldn't be classified the same way I'm not going to spend half an hour reading a bunch of shit I don't care about and get the gist of already, paraphrase it if you want to keep debating that point[/QUOTE] Cool, a person who thinks they know better than an entire association of people with PhD's in psychology.

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900945]there are two reasons I can think of that they declassified it 1. political correctness bullshit[/QUOTE] That's not an argument because it more or less predated the majority of the gay rights movement. "Political correctness" about homosexuals didn't exist in 1973. [QUOTE=Android phone;27900945]2. opinion[/QUOTE] No, it's not an opinion, it's a truth claim. "Homosexuality is not a choice" is a claim of objective truth, not of personal opinion. And since the APA is comprised of degreed psychologists and psychiatrists who have spent decades studying the mind and human sexuality, [B]what they say about homosexuality is much more valid than what you are saying about homosexuality[/B] because they know what they are talking about and you don't. [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] "no it's just your opinion" is a crappy argument because it is possible for one opinion to be better than another

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900085]you aren't born in a poorly-fitted suit and there's a difference between going from your proper anatomy to a science experiment and getting clothes that fit you better[/QUOTE] How is it "proper anatomy" if the anatomy of the brain differs from the anatomy of the body Your mind plays a larger part in defining self than your body does and if your mind says you're a chick but your body doesn't it makes complete sense to change your body

[QUOTE=Android phone;27900988]of course I'll have children, I'm a man and I know I'm a man, I don't try to deny the fact that I have a dick and I'm happy with it :) so tell me, just wondering, if a kid is born with freckles but doesn't think they're a freckles kind of person, do they truly have freckles? or how about redheads, or black people, or germans? just because they're born a certain way doesn't mean they're really like that, right?[/QUOTE] The problem with your analogy is that internal gender perception is not like freckles or skin color. Try again.

Eh, I'd be thinking of them differently, just not in a bad sense. I mean, it's like if your kid told you they were gay. It's not a bad thing, you'll just think of them in a different sense from then on.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;27901116]How is it "proper anatomy" if the anatomy of the brain differs from the anatomy of the body Your mind plays a larger part in defining self than your body does and if your mind says you're a chick but your body doesn't it makes complete sense to change your body[/QUOTE] my mind tells me I'm a furry and you're all just going to have to deal with it :downs: weird, right? [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mane;27901130]The problem with your analogy is that internal gender perception is not like freckles or skin color. Try again.[/QUOTE] no, you're saying "my mind says I'm a fairy princess but I have a dick, so I must be a fairy princess, better go change it" how is that any different from "my mind says I've got a perfect body but I'm dangerously obese, so I must have a perfect body, better go change it"

arguing solely with analogies is dumb bro. "I can make them sound like the same thing so they are the same thing" is a child's way of thinking. grow up

[QUOTE=Android phone;27901030]"he said a bad word he's really dumb" I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to use ad hominem in debates as long as that isn't your entire debate go ahead and say it is my entire debate, prove you haven't read any of my posts[/QUOTE] I have never said anything about your intelligence. Merely about your politeness. And I did read your posts, and the argumentation you used. Insults are not your entire debate, merely the last phase of it. I assume your argumentation cannot stand against the others, because you are not continuing with logical arguments but with insults. Just insulting people will not make their arguments any less valid. By the way, if a german for example would not feel like a german anymore, he or she could naturalize and become a citizen of the united Kingdom, or France, or the USA. Redheads can dye their hair. [sarcasm]And Micheal Jackson became white. ;) [/sarcasm] As you see, I am continuing to counter your argumentation with logic. Not with insults.

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27901211]arguing solely with analogies is dumb bro. "I can make them sound like the same thing so they are the same thing" is a child's way of thinking. grow up[/QUOTE] "you shouldn't be able to use analogies I can't argue against the logic of it, just one specific scenario with that logic waaa :saddowns:" [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Darkon Ta Dra;27901215] By the way, if a german for example would not feel like a german anymore, he or she could naturalize and become a citizen of the united Kingdom, or France, or the USA. Redheads can dye their hair. [sarcasm]And Micheal Jackson became white. ;) [/sarcasm] As you see, I am continuing to counter your argumentation with logic. Not with insults.[/QUOTE] no, to be a parallel the german would try to alter his entire lifestyle (see: weeaboos, ask nekosune) to wrap around a culture he isn't a part of, and a redhead would have their hair completely removed and replaced with a different color if the german just moved, or the redhead just dyed their hair, the trannie would always wear a strapon or some shit, not get physically altered

[QUOTE=Android phone;27901155]no, you're saying "my mind says I'm a fairy princess but I have a dick, so I must be a fairy princess, better go change it"[/quote] Because you're clearly arguing in bad faith, I can't really figure out what parts you actually want to discuss and what you're throwing around in attempt to cover the large gaps in your knowledge/argument. Could you try to have a discussion in good faith? [quote]how is that any different from "my mind says I've got a perfect body but I'm dangerously obese, so I must have a perfect body, better go change it"[/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder]That is also a real thing.[/url] You really didn't do any research, did you?

[QUOTE=Mane;27901292]Because you're clearly arguing in bad faith, I can't really figure out what parts you actually want to discuss and what you're throwing around in attempt to cover the large gaps in your knowledge/argument. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder]That is also a real thing.[/url] You really didn't do any research, did you?[/QUOTE] and wouldn't you say body dysmorphic disorder is a bad thing? it sure as hell isn't right, they're dangerously obese, why don't they recognize that? why do they delude themselves? you're arguing with me on this analogy, how about the rest of them?

[QUOTE=Android phone;27901333]and wouldn't you say body dysmorphic disorder is a bad thing? it sure as hell isn't right, they're dangerously obese, can't they understand it? you're arguing with me on this analogy, how about the rest of them?[/QUOTE] I think it is a terribly sad thing. I also think gender identity disorder is also a terribly sad thing. However, what effectively treats BDD is not the same as what effectively treats GID. Are you arguing that the treatments should be the same, despite your lack of knowledge on the broad subjects of human sexuality, psychology, and medicine?

[QUOTE=Android phone;27901232]"you shouldn't be able to use analogies I can't argue against the logic of it, just one specific scenario with that logic waaa :saddowns:" [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] no, to be a parallel the german would try to alter his entire lifestyle (see: weeaboos, ask nekosune) to wrap around a culture he isn't a part of, and a redhead would have their hair completely removed and replaced with a different color if the german just moved, or the redhead just dyed their hair, the trannie would always wear a strapon or some shit, not get physically altered[/QUOTE] Nice to see how you jump to conclusions. I plan to move to Germany when I can afford to, and aside from watching the odd anime, I much prefer a good science fiction book. [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] Currently just starting Rama II after finishing Rendevous with Rama.

[QUOTE=nekosune;27901382]Nice to see how you jump to conclusions. I plan to move to Germany when I can afford to, and aside from watching the odd anime, I much prefer a good science fiction book.[/QUOTE] no, [i]that[/i] part was straight up ad hominem :v:, felt good to sneak that joke in

[QUOTE=Android phone;27901425]no, [i]that[/i] part was straight up ad hominem :v:, felt good to sneak that joke in[/QUOTE] This is what I mean by arguing in bad faith.

I'd ask them to wait till 18, then ask them if they still want it done.

[QUOTE=Mane;27901445]This is what I mean by arguing in bad faith.[/QUOTE] you still haven't replied to my other analogies should furries get their bodies modified because they feel like some fucked up human-animal hybrid? should redheads get their old hair destroyed and get new, synthetic hair transplants because they're dissatisfied with their hair color? should people cling to cultures they will always be naturally excluded from? [editline]6th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zenpod;27901461]I'd ask them to wait till 18, then ask them if they still want it done.[/QUOTE] your brain still isn't fully matured by 18, you do stupid-as-hell shit well into your 30s before the "wait no that idea was fucking dumb" part is finished

[QUOTE=Android phone;27901498]should furries get their bodies modified because they feel like some fucked up human-animal hybrid?[/quote] What sort of procedures lead to fucked up human-animal hybrids? I would need to read about this before offering my opinion. [quote]should redheads get their old hair destroyed and get new, synthetic hair transplants because they're dissatisfied with their hair color?[/quote] If that's what they want to do, they are welcome to do that. Hair transplants aren't something new. [quote]should people cling to cultures they will always be naturally excluded from?[/QUOTE] How can someone be naturally excluded from a man-made construct? You seem to have a remarkable lack of empathy and understanding for humanity; for many of these cases, there is no absolute "should" condition.