A Quiet Conversation (The Jimquisition) [SPOILERS] - General

[QUOTE=Skyward;48681539]I'd honestly be a whole lot more okay with this is they just flat out said it was for fanservice's sake. I'd just throw it in the same bucket of dumb design decisions as the BnB unit. But instead they tried to play it off straight face and claim it was some logically justified bullshit. Doing sexy dances around on a helicopter sure as hell doesn't help you breath easier.[/QUOTE] She does exaggerated sexy shit aboard the ACC because she's trying to seduce Big Boss and (heavy story spoilers) [sp]the game makes an entire point out of the fact the player BECOMES big boss[/sp] so that fan service is both addressed directly towards the player and towards big boss as a character. It's actually pretty clever since it makes sense within universe, and it's a nice, quirky but endearing take on the usual fan service you can take.

I mean I feel like I shouldn't even have to explain this part, but I'm not the kind of person that objectifies women or fawns over a titty flash. Like I don't think it's a [i]good[/i] thing she's designed the way she is. I'm just kindof blown away that out of everything about this game that anyone even... cares about this. [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] Jim Sterling is an idiot also.

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;48681565]And if you expected something different from a Metal Gear game and Kojima, you're naive.[/QUOTE] Sure Kojima does a lot of "sexy" character designs, I don't have a problem with that at all, but characters like Eva or Sniper Wolf are still, in terms of design, a whole lot more interesting and less lazy than Quiet. And then there's character's like Meryl or The Boss who are great designs for female characters without going the fanservice-y route. I usually like Kojima's female characters and the only female designs I've genuinely disliked from Kojima up until this point are the BnB's so yes, [I]I expected better.[/I]

[QUOTE]The initial target is to make u want to do cosplay or its figurine to sell well.[/QUOTE] He literally said this

imagine getting mad at a sexualized character in metal gear once kojima stops sexualizing the males with constant ass shots (theres even one of a patient at the hospital. in a patient gown) and skin tight suits we'll talk about how women are so badly sexualized in the mgs series kojima is a equal-fanservice developer, and its funny to see people bitch about the girls being sexualized rather than complain everyone is being sexualized

her costume isn't great, but l o l it's like the least of MGS V's problems hell it's the least of Quiet's problems

[QUOTE=Wii60;48681622]imagine getting mad at a sexualized character in metal gear once kojima stops sexualizing the males with constant ass shots and skin tight suits well talk[/QUOTE] Its not a matter of sexualized characters. I just feel that it's a bad design, and sexualization is fine in proper context. More Bayonetta and Skullgirls, less DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball, y'know? I don't know, clearly I'm just not on the same wavelength as this thread, so I'll just stop. Agree to disagree or whatever.

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;48681565]"Expected better" Please. One of the first things Kojima said was that Quiet was designed for sexy cosplays. And if you expected something different from a Metal Gear game and Kojima, you're naive.[/QUOTE] idk, it feels a lot more pointless in this one than the others. -In MGS1 sniper wolf's design was sexual, but not torn pantyhose and bikini -in MGS2, raiden and vamp were sexualized more for laughs than anything (vamp being his weird eccentric character, and raiden being in an awkward situation) -In MGS3, Eva is constantly trying to sex snake because she's a spy and she thinks its the best way to gain his trust (and also played for laughs when snake is uncomfortable and finds more interest in sperging out over a gun) -MGS4 was a mess so he shouldn't try to emulate anything from that one but in MGS5 it's just kinda weird when it keeps zooming in on her bikini-clad ass at random points, and the only real reason is that "she breathes through her skin", probs could've come up with a better design than what we got. Just sad to see such a "woah look at these TITS" design when you've got way cooler sexualized designs in past games, and some of the best character designs to date in the current game

[QUOTE=Skyward;48681597]I usually like Kojima's female characters and the only female designs I've genuinely disliked from Kojima up until this point are the BnB's so yes, [I]I expected better.[/I][/QUOTE] Oh yes all the memorable female characters from Kojima who weren't sexualized at all, let's see Meryl "look at my ass it's important, also scat fetish and wedding dresses" Silverburgh Sniper "I'm wearing a jumpsuit in winter but look at that damn cleavage" Wolf Naomi "Let's fuck in that chopper, also have you seen my cleavage" Hunter Doctor "Cripple Dicks Are My Shtick" Strangelove Paz "16 years old in a bikini" Ortega Mei "The more advanced the aging, the better the dicking" Ling The "milf with a cleavage that goes down to below her belly button" Boss Also Fortune who's specifically wearing a skintight suit that emphasizes her tits, and Eva whose entire existence revolves around trying to bounce on Big Boss' dick.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48681652]Oh yes all the memorable female characters from Kojima who weren't sexualized at all, let's see[/QUOTE] Did you completely miss the part where I said it was okay they were sexualized??? Because it was right here [quote][B][U]Sure Kojima does a lot of "sexy" character designs, I don't have a problem with that at all[/U][/B], but characters like Eva or Sniper Wolf are still, in terms of design, a whole lot more interesting and less lazy than Quiet. And then there's character's like Meryl or The Boss who are great designs for female characters without going the fanservice-y route. I usually like Kojima's female characters and the only female designs I've genuinely disliked from Kojima up until this point are the BnB's so yes, I expected better.[/quote] Real funny names though, if the rest of my post didn't exist it might have made a decent counter-point maybe. And thanks for reminding me, I didn't like Paz at the end of PW either.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48681652]Oh yes all the memorable female characters from Kojima who weren't sexualized at all, let's see Meryl "look at my ass it's important, also scat fetish and wedding dresses" Silverburgh Sniper "I'm wearing a jumpsuit in winter but look at that damn cleavage" Wolf Naomi "Let's fuck in that chopper, also have you seen my cleavage" Hunter Doctor "Cripple Dicks Are My Shtick" Strangelove Paz "16 years old in a bikini" Ortega The "milf with a cleavage that goes down to below her belly button" Boss[/QUOTE] Okay I'm new to this franchise, but are you comparing the level that they throw potential story out the window for fanservice to Boss? I hear more about her character than any other character in MGS besides snake himself.

But why is the fact she's wearing a bikini somehow more lazy than a blonde bimbo with a zipped down jumpsuit who literally tries to fuck the main character straight up ? How was Eva less fan service than Quiet when Eva [I]strikes a fucking pose in the first aid menu[/I] if you stare at her long enough, just like Quiet does ? [I]You literally have to stare at Meryl's ass to progress in the first game.[/I] Fan service isn't only about showing skin and the amount of fan service isn't directly proportional to the amount of skin you show.

[QUOTE=Skyward;48681643]Its not a matter of sexualized characters. I just feel that it's a bad design, and sexualization is fine in proper context. More Bayonetta and Skullgirls, less DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball, y'know? I don't know, clearly I'm just not on the same wavelength as this thread, so I'll just stop. Agree to disagree or whatever.[/QUOTE] Quiet's design is amazing though, if we're talking overall as a character. Her looks are her looks, they're average as character design goes, but the writing and plot surrounding her is fantastic.

heck, I'll answer all his points. [quote]for reasons only described as metal gear logic[/quote] I'm going to answer this, because its as if a game can't have its own universe without being ridiculed as weird or bullshit. Did MGS suddenly became realistic and nanomachines for example are bollocks fantasy in a game of the sort? [quote]I'd argue if we needed a thousand holes in our bodies to breath[/quote] so, we're the same as someone who got set on fire with highly flammable liquids and who was healed with parasites that not only heal but also give super human abilities in exchange for not speaking? Sterling should had been a biology teacher. Mystique apparently doesn't rubs his ruibarb, despite being completely naked lol. Quiet is bollocks, but Mystique isn't. [quote]the camera gawkes at her[/quote] The only thing I do agree with, but you're making it more of an issue than it really is. Insecurities ahoy! (lets forget how PW has 2 men in speedos on a date at the beach, for no reason whatsoever, men don't count ;) ) [quote]The End isn't naked, but Quiet is[/quote] Again, nevermind that theres a date on the beach with 2 guys in speedos. Who gives a flying fig. [quote]Her worth as a character is downsized by the "sexy shit"[/quote] To you maybe. If you want to objectify her, be my guest. Something almost tells me that you fell into a trap. But putting that aside imo, she has her own merit, and thats because I don't reek of SJW bullshit who panders to looking at the inside of a person, despite only giving a shit about the outside of Quiet. [quote]You later unlock costumes for her that actually show you shouldn't mess with her[/quote] So, because she's naked, she has no worth in combat... Lol. [quote]With Quiet, the priority is different, which is not making her an interesting character[/quote] I beg to differ. Jim says this because she's in a bikini? Quiet is much more interesting than The Boss to me. Why? Gee, I dunno, because she has super human powers? Because she was on [sp]XOF[/sp] and tried to kill you and is now on your side? The Boss obviously has her strong points, there is no denying of that whatsoever since the story basicaly started because of her ideals, but we already know everything about her and she doesn't has super human abilities or actions that make us wonder whats the deal with her. Also, why would she be treated like The Boss? She's nothing like the Boss. The only things they share in common is that they're both female and they are both badass. Oh, and another thing... Grade A childish behavior and reasoning every now and then. I honestly feel like Jimquisition is hit and miss, ever since he got into that "Jim and dev of Slaughtering grounds tag team vs a dead hourse" fight. Nobody won from that, and both Jim and the guy were both idiots.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48681683]But why is the fact she's wearing a bikini somehow more lazy than a blonde bimbo with a zipped down jumpsuit who literally tries to fuck the main character straight up ? How was Eva less fan service than Quiet when Eva [I]strikes a fucking pose in the first aid menu[/I] if you stare at her long enough, just like Quiet does ? [I]You literally have to stare at Meryl's ass to progress in the first game.[/I] [/QUOTE] Well I can't actually argue that as I haven't finished the game yet, for all I know Quiet is actually integral the plot somehow. But she's the character I'm interested in hearing about the most (Why is she like that/how did she get her powers, why is she so stubborn, why was she working cipher but jumped right on board with Diamond Dogs) and all I've gotten so far is an explanation for why she's dressed like that, and a cutscene where [sp]she fights a bunch of your dudes for some reason[/sp]

[QUOTE=usaokay;48681695]Japan's culture is different. You would rarely see this kind of stuff happening in a western game.[/QUOTE] There's a lot of games where you just straight up see topless women or women in bikinis, it's really not that are in video games. People are making a huge deal about this because it's kojima and for some reason they expect Kojima to cater to their very specific sense of what a good female character should be even when Kojima's known to make characters either centered around fan service or well written enough to be fan service while still being good characters. [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MedicWine;48681704]Well I can't actually argue that as I haven't finished the game yet, for all I know Quiet is actually integral the plot somehow. But she's the character I'm interested in hearing about the most (Why is she like that/how did she get her powers, why is she so stubborn, why was she working cipher but jumped right on board with Diamond Dogs) and all I've gotten so far is an explanation for why she's dressed like that, and a cutscene where [sp]she fights a bunch of your dudes for some reason[/sp][/QUOTE] About that scene [sp]the guy had the kikongo strain and she tried to flush him out[/sp]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48681683]But why is the fact she's wearing a bikini somehow more lazy than a blonde bimbo with a zipped down jumpsuit who literally tries to fuck the main character straight up ? How was Eva less fan service than Quiet when Eva [I]strikes a fucking pose in the first aid menu[/I] if you stare at her long enough, just like Quiet does ? [I]You literally have to stare at Meryl's ass to progress in the first game.[/I] Fan service isn't only about showing skin and the amount of fan service isn't directly proportional to the amount of skin you show.[/QUOTE] The part where you had to look for Meryl's ass was funny. A joke. Played for laughs. The idea of Eva worked better (for me at least) because of the obvious James Bond/Bond Girl influences, and they were subverted with a few silly moments like how Snake was more interested in the gun he gave him than he was in her. And the way she acted has story relevance (which I just learned last page is apparently the same for Quiet. I'll admit I wasn't are of that because I haven't gotten far enough to learn that). Not to mention Eva as a character just interested me more than Quiet. Sure that's anecdotal, but that's how it is for me personally. It's the difference between a sexualized character or the character's sake, and a sexualized character for the sake of titilating the audience. As for this: [quote]Fan service isn't only about showing skin and the amount of fan service isn't directly proportional to the amount of skin you show.[/quote] I agree. The way Quiet runs around in a bikini isn't the only way she's fanservicey, it's the way she pretty much strip-teases you on the helicopter rides, etc that bothers me from a fanservice perspective. It's more in your face than it's been with previous Metal Gear female leads. The closest I can relate it to is the BnBs who I [I]hated[/I]. The way she's naked (by default) is more i problem I have with her design. The way she acts and what she does is a problem I have with her from a fanservice-y perspective. [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rossy167;48681691]Quiet's design is amazing though, if we're talking overall as a character. Her looks are her looks, they're average as character design goes, but the writing and plot surrounding her is fantastic.[/QUOTE] Her plot relevance and stuff is fine and the stuff she does besides dance around the helicopter and roll around naked in rain puddles is [I]awesome[/I]. I'm personally talking about her visual design, which I think is very weak and very lazy. Putting the costumes on her goes a long way to help. Different strokes I guess. I'm just bummed because if it wasn't for those black marks on her character, I'd say she could have been another great Metal Gear character in my eyes.

While the clothing is shit, the character is really well written. Surprisingly one of my fav characters in the game even though the "reason" ingame for her clothing is pretty shite. Kojima sexualizes everyone so it doesn't really strike me as annoying when he also does it to females.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48681708]There's a lot of games where you just straight up see topless women or women in bikinis, it's really not that are in video games. People are making a huge deal about this because it's kojima and for some reason they expect Kojima to cater to their very specific sense of what a good female character should be even when Kojima's known to make characters either centered around fan service or well written enough to be fan service while still being good characters. [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] About that scene [sp]It's never explained but judging by how they keep explaining how she hates being touched or forced to put on clothes it's fair to assume that soldier tried to get too close and she didn't like it[/sp][/QUOTE] i feel like you've done nothing but completely miss the point i dont think any MGS fan actually gives a shit that a character is sexualized, it's part of the dumb hammy charm of MGS. It's the fact that her design is dumb and lazy, the part that made the past characters sexualization endearing is that they were usually played for laughs and for fun or were sexualized to make light of a characters sexual desire in mgs5, a character literally tries to [sp]rape her dead corpse[/sp] there's a huge, HUGE difference between a zipped down jumpsuit and a full on bikini with torn pantyhose and leather gloves

how bad is mgs5 when it comes to lazy characters?

If your sole reason to dislike the character is her design, I believe you can change her costume. No, that's not a justification to her design which you think is lazy but you have alternatives if you don't want her to look like that

But quiet doing strip tease poses and constantly cockteasing Big Boss is important to her side story because (late game spoiler) [sp]the point is that the player and big boss ARE THE SAME PERSON. Her fan service is addressed to both you as the player and to Venom Snake, who's an extension of the player. If you don't care, venom doesn't care. If you do care, venom does care. She's the same as Eva in the sense that she tries to affect Big Boss, but while Eva failed since BB at this point is his own man and not affected by the player, the Venom Snake you play in MGS is affected by the player and will thus follow the same decision, which includes saving or killing quiet, deciding whether or not you want to stick with her and encourage her in her fan service, so on and so forth.[/sp] Also worth mentioning that you are [I]never forced to keep her[/I]. If you don't like the bikini woman, just shoot her or never take her on your missions and she'll never bother you. If you take her on with you during missions then you take on the responsibility that she'll try to appeal to venom snake as part of her character.

And she's a sniper which her point is to hide from everyone's sight, so when you're on the field are you staring at her or using her abilities and paying attention to the enemies?

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;48681792]If your sole reason to dislike the character is her design, I believe you can change her costume. No, that's not a justification to her design which you think is lazy but you have alternatives if you don't want her to look like that[/QUOTE] I recognize that, and I use the alternative costumes. [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;48681751]i feel like you've done nothing but completely miss the point i dont think any MGS fan actually gives a shit that a character is sexualized, it's part of the dumb hammy charm of MGS. It's the fact that her design is dumb and lazy, the part that made the past characters sexualization endearing is that they were usually played for laughs and for fun or were sexualized to make light of a characters sexual desire in mgs5, a character literally tries to [sp]rape her dead corpse[/sp] there's a huge, HUGE difference between a zipped down jumpsuit and a full on bikini with torn pantyhose and leather gloves[/QUOTE] Precisely this.

[QUOTE=J!NX;48681788]tbh if that's seriously the story behind the character I don't think I can get into mgs5 at this point how much more of this wacky absurd shite is there after all? it's just fucking idiotic [/QUOTE] mgs3 has a character that can shoot hornets out of his mouth lol

5s actually pretty grounded compared to the rest based on what I've played so far v:v:v

also i dont see why a bikini is a lazy design choice as it was a huge piece of attire in the 1980s, the game took place in 1984. bikini's are as 1980s as miami vice and synth music.

[QUOTE=Wii60;48681831]also i dont see why a bikini is a lazy design choice as it was a huge piece of attire in the 1980s, the game took place in 1984. bikini's are as 1980s as miami vice and synth music.[/QUOTE] Yes I am sure that was Kojima's reasoning for it. :v:

[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;48681820]mgs3 has a character that can shoot hornets out of his mouth lol[/QUOTE] editted cause I felt I was ranting without a point, since MGS series is MEANT to be absurd wacky shite and that's why people love it, so I was making a dumb point I don't know, quiet feels lazy compared to "Shoot hornets out of ones mouth". The design and reason both just feel uncared for and senseless

[QUOTE=Wii60;48681831]also i dont see why a bikini is a lazy design choice as it was a huge piece of attire in the 1980s, the game took place in 1984. bikini's are as 1980s as miami vice and synth music.[/QUOTE] Honestly I highly doubt that's one of his reasons even if most of the game has 80's influence. A lot of hair styles looks like David Bowie's hairstyles and Kojima loves David Bowie hell, "Diamond Dogs" is from one of his albums