A Quiet Conversation (The Jimquisition) [SPOILERS] - General

Of all the things to complain about, this really isn't it, want something to complain about? Cut content.

also, quiet breaths through her skin and yet she has a breathing animation as if her lungs are expanding and shrinking, as if she doesn't isn't the point of this so that her breathing doesn't effect the sniping? No movement from breath after all obviously looking a bit deep into it, but surely they should have seen that?

i also find it kinda funny that people complain about quiets design and purpose meanwhile in mgs4 we have women that escaped from a fuckin bondage facility who are able to dance and pose to j-pop playing from your in-game ipod. half those boss battles felt like old man snake was about to be raped rather than killed [video=youtube;fTRxPjiSlf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTRxPjiSlf0[/video]

metal gear solid is full of tropey ass characters bikini sniper is a trope you people think too much

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48681683]But why is the fact she's wearing a bikini somehow more lazy than a blonde bimbo with a zipped down jumpsuit who literally tries to fuck the main character straight up ? How was Eva less fan service than Quiet when Eva [I]strikes a fucking pose in the first aid menu[/I] if you stare at her long enough, just like Quiet does ? [I]You literally have to stare at Meryl's ass to progress in the first game.[/I] Fan service isn't only about showing skin and the amount of fan service isn't directly proportional to the amount of skin you show.[/QUOTE] Because SJW and PC times weren't fast enough to complain about those lol.

[QUOTE=Wii60;48681897]i also find it kinda funny that people complain about quiets design and purpose meanwhile in mgs4 we have women that escaped from a fuckin bondage facility who are able to dance and pose to j-pop playing from your in-game ipod. half those boss battles felt like old man snake was about to be raped rather than killed [video=youtube;fTRxPjiSlf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTRxPjiSlf0[/video][/QUOTE] I find it funny that you assume everyone was fond of those sections. The BnB Unit was total shitshow of awkward perverse creepiness.

[QUOTE=Skyward;48681844]Yes I am sure that was Kojima's reasoning for it. :v:[/QUOTE] Kojima does love him some 80s though.

[QUOTE=Skyward;48681949]I find it funny that you assume everyone was fond of those sections. The BnB Unit was total shitshow of awkward perverse creepiness.[/QUOTE] I couldn't play MGS4 because the PS3 is in the kitchen, where everyone is... That aside.. You all know what? I tell you what. While everyone is complaining about Quiet, I'm having fun playing MGSV and not giving a shit about, well, bullshit. Who really wins here?

[QUOTE=Dantz Bolrew;48681328]It seems like people complain but don't really know the roots the series has.[/QUOTE] Anybody who moans about much other than the gameplay and the plotholes in MGS are missing a lot from the series. Of course MGS has its problems in all areas, but as a whole it's pretty amazingly well done across the board (save the MGS4 of course).

:snip: Misread that

[QUOTE=MedicWine;48681679]Okay I'm new to this franchise, but are you comparing the level that they throw potential story out the window for fanservice to Boss? I hear more about her character than any other character in MGS besides snake himself.[/QUOTE] You hear more about Quiet currently because we're in an age where being triggered by every little thing is at an all time high.

I find it really frustrating when Jim belittles us by joking about going "full SJW" then proceeds to say a bunch of stupid crap that misses points, misrepresents his opposing arguments and for some reason has a problem with Kojima's logic which reflects perfectly in the game. I think what gets me most is his inability to accept MGS as a mature and well crafted game. We're talking about a series that has been pulling at the heart strings of anyone that was willing to accept how juxtaposition worked since MGS1's release in 1998. Created by the legendary Hideo Kojima, a man as talented as he is eccentric, who willingly and maturely tackles the horrible topic of [sp]child soldiers[/sp] in the same game that [sp]he inserts himself into as a character that needs saving and then has himself say a cheesy tagline and put on his iconic sunglasses once he's saved[/sp]. Hideo Kojima is one of gaming's greatest minds, he's created a story that's as wacky as it is emotional and it honestly makes me sad that people are unwilling to accept the emotional part.

[QUOTE=MedicWine;48681679]Okay I'm new to this franchise, but are you comparing the level that they throw potential story out the window for fanservice to Boss? I hear more about her character than any other character in MGS besides snake himself.[/QUOTE] The Boss is one of gaming's best characters in my opinion (to be fair I still hold MGS3 as one of my favorite games of all time) and I'm having a hard time not seeing Quiet at a similar level too. The dynamic is different, but it hits you in the heart and oh god you can feel it. Even in her little jiggly fan-servicey dance thing you can see the look on her face and you've got to feel sorry for her even if you're the kind of heartless/ignorant bastard that normally feels nothing from Kojima's writing.

Here I'm just wondering about that playing in the rain scene. Shouldn't that feel like waterboarding or smth?

[QUOTE=EcksDee;48682147]Here I'm just wondering about that playing in the rain scene. Shouldn't that feel like waterboarding or smth?[/QUOTE] She also drinks through her skin. Quiet's skin is goddamn magical and can do pretty much everything.

I love Quiet as a character. Her story engages me and I feel genuine emotion as it goes on. Yes, the explanation may be Kojima BS, but it makes sense considering the reasons given. I actually like her outfit, why is all sexuality seen as taboo now? Honestly it seems pretty dumb that people are arguing about this, its just a game. I guarantee those who cosplay Quiet will be defended for being "strong and sexually independent, don't slut shame guys!".

[QUOTE=EcksDee;48682147]Here I'm just wondering about that playing in the rain scene. Shouldn't that feel like waterboarding or smth?[/QUOTE] Something like rain and a shower is fine but being submerged in water would be like drowning.

[QUOTE=Momentum;48682208]its just a game. [/QUOTE] I'm on your side for everything else but eugh why have you got to say this right after saying that Quiet makes you feel genuine emotion, that strikes me as silly. Media, art, whatever you want to call it matters, you never hear people say "it's just a book" or "it's just a movie" in the context of controversial subjects.

[QUOTE=Skyward;48682016]Hahah holy shit you're cute. I never once said I'm not enjoying MGSV. I don't like Quiet, that doesn't mean I don't like the game.[/QUOTE] I didn't say you weren't enjoying MGSV. I refered myself to the people who were in flames with the whole thing.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;48682096]I find it really frustrating when Jim belittles us by joking about going "full SJW" then proceeds to say a bunch of stupid crap that misses points, misrepresents his opposing arguments and for some reason has a problem with Kojima's logic which reflects perfectly in the game. I think what gets me most is his inability to accept MGS as a mature and well crafted game. We're talking about a series that has been pulling at the heart strings of anyone that was willing to accept how juxtaposition worked since MGS1's release in 1998. Created by the legendary Hideo Kojima, a man as talented as he is eccentric, who willingly and maturely tackles the horrible topic of [sp]child soldiers[/sp] in the same game that [sp]he inserts himself into as a character that needs saving and then has himself say a cheesy tagline and put on his iconic sunglasses once he's saved[/sp]. Hideo Kojima is one of gaming's greatest minds, he's created a story that's as wacky as it is emotional and it honestly makes me sad that people are unwilling to accept the emotional part.[/QUOTE] Did you even watch the same video I did? I fail to see anything in particular that unreasonably misses the point or misrepresents opposing arguments - throughout the entire video, I can't find one mention of anything in the vein of "it endorses rape culture" so the point he's making isn't exactly hardline, he replies to the snide remark Kojima made a few years back, and then basically goes on to say there's little to no real justification for the character to look so sexualised. He's not complaining that she is so sexualised because of having an aversion to sexualised stuff- the absolute worst insult you could extrapolate is that he thinks its weak character design. I can't say I disagree there. He makes a fine and blatant point of going over the fact that its an otherwise mature and provoking/evocative story. He also repeatedly points out how he's well aware MGS is famed for being wacky at times. He's partly making a case that just because an idolized developer like Hideo Kojima is behind the game, and because the MGS series is wacky, people seem to think that Quiet isn't deserving of any constructive criticism about her character. Your last sentence is the embodiment of this. [quote]that people are unwilling to accept the emotional part.[/quote] You'll have to explain this as well because I don't see the relevance of this statement Its fine to fundamentally disagree on an opinion based thing like the significance of sexualisation IMO, but you're criticizing him for not obliging ideas he [I]has[/I] considered while failing to respond to any of his precise points [I]and[/I] saying he's misrepresenting opposing arguments.

[QUOTE=kweh;48682363]I didn't say you weren't enjoying MGSV. I refered myself to the people who were in flames with the whole thing.[/QUOTE] Yeah I noticed I misread that just now. Sorry.

She actually has an interesting story but the helicopter rides are silly and her not talking doesn't help with development. Even though there is a story explanation why she wears only bikini I, too, wish her design was something less crazy.

Personally my opinion is that yes, sexualization of both genders are in every game in the series. Quiet's probably the least subtle example of them all because of how explicitly fanservice she is, combined with a minimal amount of character development (endgame spoilers) [sp]and the fact that she leaves via seeming death with only an implied romance for Big Boss and a refusal to allow her Parasites to make her kill him, which sort of means you lose her permanently unlike the other buddies.[/sp] I like aspects of the character and i'd still put her in her XOF uniform in a heartbeat if I could, because it just feels like the story excuse for her wearing less than a stripper is just that - an excuse so that Kojima could have a fanservice character. Especially since the camera loves to jam itself towards her T&A with the subtlety of a brick to your head.

[QUOTE=Marden;48682399]She actually has an interesting story but the helicopter rides are silly and her not talking doesn't help with development. Even though there is a story explanation why she wears only bikini I, too, wish her design was something less crazy.[/QUOTE] Good thing theres the option to clothe her later. It's not even the "hurr boobs, cover them" thing, its just that she looks hella well in the XOF uniform.

It really isn't nearly as big of a deal as some seem to say it is. Like, it's not a big deal at all. Does it even matter if the reason for her design is fanservice or plot device? I just feel like people see tits and suddenly they need to find any reason to call someone out on that. Tits due to fanservice? BAD. Tits due to plot device? BAD. Why? Yes, the actual design is quite boring but the tits issue is unrelated to that.

[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;48682368]Did you even watch the same video I did? I fail to see anything in particular that unreasonably misses the point or misrepresents opposing arguments - throughout the entire video, I can't find one mention of anything in the vein of "it endorses rape culture" so the point he's making isn't exactly hardline, he replies to the snide remark Kojima made a few years back, and then basically goes on to say there's little to no real justification for the character to look so sexualised. He's not complaining that she is so sexualised because of having an aversion to sexualised stuff- the absolute worst insult you could extrapolate is that he thinks its weak character design. I can't say I disagree there. He makes a fine and blatant point of going over the fact that its an otherwise mature and provoking/evocative story. He also repeatedly points out how he's well aware MGS is famed for being wacky at times. He's partly making a case that just because an idolized developer like Hideo Kojima is behind the game, and because the MGS series is wacky, people seem to think that Quiet isn't deserving of any constructive criticism about her character. Your last sentence is the embodiment of this. You'll have to explain this as well because I don't see the relevance of this statement Its fine to fundamentally disagree on an opinion based thing like the significance of sexualisation IMO, but you're criticizing him for not obliging ideas he [I]has[/I] considered while failing to respond to any of his precise points [I]and[/I] saying he's misrepresenting opposing arguments.[/QUOTE] He says the photosynthesis excuse doesn't work failing to take into account that [sp]unlike Code Talker and the End, Quiet has no lungs[/sp]. I don't think the motivation in making a sexy character like Quiet makes sense though, and the fan service argument just dies when you know how the plot goes for her. He repeatedly calls Quiet "wank fodder" or a trophy which strikes me as odd since he's completely ignoring what an emotional impact she has on the player, he says the priority with Quiet "is not to make her an interesting character". I'm still failing to see how having huge and exposed boobs and being a good character are mutually exclusive. Jim may respect Kojima but, as he sort of clued to, there's a large amount of people out there that do not and just thing he's some crazy Japanese perv and his games are just nutty, wacky shit incapable of any maturity and emotion. No Kojima is not above criticism for me, I said earlier in this thread that I dislike MGS4 but I don't believe he deserves criticism for Quiet. [sp]Unless we're talking about how we couldn't use her in endgame, even if the story stuff made sense, mechanically I quite liked having her around.[/sp] Oh and I guess I don't need to mention the "I breath through my skin gag" which was, while just Jim joking and all that, he was kind of just being a cunt. Also the way he talked about the Mad Max was again douchey, though you never know how much is in character. TB was far better about the entire thing. This is actually the first video of Jim's I've had an adverse reaction to (that I've seen) and tbh, after all that I've lost a fair bit of respect for him.

I feel like a lot of people are just defending this because it's Metal Gear (we sure as fuck have a lot of rabid fanboys on Facepunch after all) the point of the video to me seems to be that Quiet's design being sexual isn't the problem, it's just that it's lazy and half assed Sure you can talk about oh she was made for cosplay (I have no idea how a character can be 'made for cosplay' but whatever), well that's all you need, and that would have been fine, sure it would have been ridiculous to have her crawling around practically giving you a lapdance, but at least we wouldn't be doing it for some big dumb bullshit reason. People seem to be debating in here that the sexualization is the problem but that isn't the problem, it's just the downright lazy excuse for it

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48682699]it's just the downright lazy excuse for it[/QUOTE] Why? Why is a lazy excuse such a big problem? They even made an excuse, that's more than most. A sexy character with some reason > a sexy character with no reason. The plot excuse works. That's all it needs to do. [quote](I have no idea how a character can be 'made for cosplay' but whatever)[/quote] If you don't you really need to put in a little bit of brain power into that one. It's quite obvious.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;48682732]its a lazy excuse but the more egregious thing was really the whole "ashamed for your words and actions" thing he tweeted, i laughed my ass off about that when it happened and do even more now that we know why shes like that[/QUOTE] I think Kojima was trolling. It's too baity.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48682727]Why? Why is a lazy excuse such a big problem? They even made an excuse, that's more than most. A sexy character with some reason > a sexy character with no reason. The plot excuse works. That's all it needs to do. If you don't you really need to put in a little bit of brain power into that one. It's quite obvious.[/QUOTE] Because lazy, shitty writing is shitty? That's really not a hard concept to grasp. And the plot excuse doesn't work because you still have the game zooming on her ass and tits and shit all the time, and having her do erotic shit for no reason. So I guess you need an excuse for that one too? No, I actually think a sexy character with no reason is more respectable than a sexy character with a shit one. If you wanna do sex for sex's sake, that's fine, but don't try to pretend you're not and don't act like the shitty excuse you could have thought up in 5 minutes is something that will make me 'ashamed'. That's why nobody really likes when porn has a plot. Also, yeah, I'm not getting it. Cosplay is not a sex industry. If you mean making it for cosplayers like Jessica Nigri who do sexy cosplay, yeah, but nothing can really be 'made' for cosplay unless you're making a design intentionally easy to copy (the thing best made for cosplay is a character with jeans and a t-shirt!) [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;48682739]I think Kojima was trolling. It's too baity.[/QUOTE] because surely he couldn't just be saying something stupid right