North Korea: Best Korea - General

[QUOTE=Earthen;20313283]Actually read some history... it privatised sectors of the economy, after lenin did that the economy got better. Capitalism breeds poverty on those who don't put maximum effort, dedication and hope into work... fuck thanks to welfare, fat people can just do nothing and get money because "they have difficulties working" fuck em, its their fault. However, i believe in welfare for those mentally or physically disabled (no arms, etc..) and those who really need it and then use it to get a job and pay back the state.[/QUOTE] uh, I have studied the USSR well enough to know it wasn't some grand capitalist thing. it's retarded to think there is no people who put maximum effort and still fail. yes, everyone on welfare is fat right? Do you think before you post? [editline]04:06AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kazumi;20319592] Where's your proof that socialism is taking over Europe?[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy[/url] [editline]04:08AM[/editline] [quote=earthen;20323160]ooh personal insults. I said "sectors" of the economy, i never said what sectors, nice one dipshit. I've never lived in poverty, but i've visited areas of poverty (china, nepal, certain parts of london, malaysia). I had a job, made money, felt good. Thats capitalism, with the chance of making more money [b]the harder you work[/b]. Your idea of "true" communism is just anarchy with a nicer name. Face it, humans are not capable of having no societal hierarchy. People will always create groups and have leaders, thus we have capitalism, the epitomy of this, where there are leaders and groups, people in the groups can work their way up the ladder and become leaders themselves. In your idea of communism people would just wallow around, somebody would show skill and take power, boom! Communism failed. P.s the stalin thing was because it seemed like you were supporting his industrialization.[/quote] this is how it works in reality right?

I watched and read everything in this thread. I always found North Korea an interesting subject. Anymore videos you guys have are appreciated.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20334967] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy[/url] [/QUOTE] I don't want to support this pointless arguments about socialism vs. communism but a social democracy isn't socialistic. It merely contains elements which are also used in socialism.

[QUOTE=Conscript;20325501]Okay, that doesn't make a damn bit of difference because no sector of the economy was privatized. Big industry remained in the hands of the state. I have no idea where I mentioned anything about 'true' communism, or that it has no hierarchy. I'm not sure where this fits in on a discussion about the NEP and capitalism. Regardless communism is not anarchy, nor does it have no hierarchy. So, BOOM!, your whole off-topic argument is wrong. If you'd like to get a grasp on something you don't have the slightest clue about, I recommend [url=http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/index.htm]Critique of the Gotha Programme[/url]. this makes you even more of an idiot because this is a strawman. If I support the industrialization of the USSR (which I do, anybody who doesn't have an irrational fetish with a backwards russia does), that makes me a fan of stalin? This is like saying if I support Reagan I also support all the dictators and far-right terrorists he supported.[/QUOTE] I thought communism was "stateless, classless, oppression free" AKA anarchy. Well the industrialization was at the cost of millions of lives, it should've been completed without so much death. Capitalism works because there is hierarchy and some governmental structure.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20334967] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy[/url][/QUOTE] "Oh no, I don't know what a social democracy is. But it contains the word "social" so it must be socialistic and borderline communist".

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20334967]uh, I have studied the USSR well enough to know it wasn't some grand capitalist thing. it's retarded to think there is no people who put maximum effort and still fail. yes, everyone on welfare is fat right? Do you think before you post? [editline]04:06AM[/editline] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy[/url] [editline]04:08AM[/editline] this is how it works in reality right?[/QUOTE] I never said the USSR was very capitalist I just said how the NEP saved it from total failure because it put in private ownership. I never said everyone who was on welfare was fat... just welfare shouldn't be given to people who don't have good reason AKA fat people. Yes there are people who put maximum effort but still fail... yeah thats life, sometimes you fail, of course then welfare should be given so they can get back on their feet and repay the government. I don't get what you see in communism, its just killing people who work for their things and making sure nobody has anything. I doubt you would be very happy if your computer/car/house was taken apart and dished out equally... NO because everyone wants to have their own things. Thus communism can only be described as jealousy, its completely irrelevant today.

[QUOTE=Invulnerable;20322132]Reminds me of Pripyat (the pictures).[/QUOTE] Yeah, but I'd put my money on Pripyat having a better economy than Pyongyang :smile:

Ugh, I hate people who go THIS ISN'T COMMUNISM. Yeah yeah USA isn't a capitalism either as it has regulations and shit.

[QUOTE=evilking1;20341206]Ugh, I hate people who go THIS ISN'T COMMUNISM. Yeah yeah USA isn't a capitalism either as it has regulations and shit.[/QUOTE] It's communism by blunt definition, in the way the economy is held up. But, the politics operate more like a Dynasty would.

[quote=kazumi;20341123]"oh no, i don't know what a social democracy is. But it contains the word "social" so it must be socialistic and borderline communist".[/quote] [quote]these moderate positions included a belief that reformism was a desirable way to achieve socialism. [/quote] [quote]historically, social democratic parties advocated socialism in the strict sense, which was to be achieved by class struggle. [/quote] [quote]a mixed economy consisting of both private enterprise and publicly owned or subsidized programs of education, universal health care, child care and related social services for all citizens.[/quote] [quote]an extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by socialists), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.[/quote] [quote]an extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by socialists), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.[/quote] [quote]an extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by socialists), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.[/quote] [quote]a secular and a socially progressive policy.[/quote] [quote]# fair trade over free trade.[/quote] this is not socialistic right? [editline]01:41PM[/editline] and socialism isn't borderline communist, it's two different things. [editline]01:46PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Earthen;20341140]I never said the USSR was very capitalist I just said how the NEP saved it from total failure because it put in private ownership. [/quote] [quote]I never said everyone who was on welfare was fat... just welfare shouldn't be given to people who don't have good reason AKA fat people.[/quote] Because fat people are invulnerable to family problems, getting hurt or mental illness? well shit, in that case I'm fucking gaining weight NOW. [quote] Yes there are people who put maximum effort but still fail... yeah thats life, sometimes you fail, [/quote] uh, no, you said the only people who don't succeed are the ones who don't put maximum effort into the economy. [quote]of course then welfare should be given so they can get back on their feet and repay the government. [/quote] what if they're overweight? [quote]I don't get what you see in communism, its just killing people who work for their things and making sure nobody has anything. [/quote] I REALLY don't see how you got that, but you REALLY think capitalism doesn't do that? [quote]I doubt you would be very happy if your computer/car/house was taken apart and dished out equally...[/quote] That would suck, but good thing communism doesn't do that. [quote] NO because everyone wants to have their own things.[/quote] and you do in communism. [quote] Thus communism can only be described as jealousy, its completely irrelevant today.[/QUOTE] uh, you don't know what communism is, do you? [editline]01:55PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Earthen;20341102]I thought communism was "stateless, classless, oppression free" AKA anarchy. Well the industrialization was at the cost of millions of lives, it should've been completed without so much death. Capitalism works because there is hierarchy and some governmental structure.[/QUOTE] Anarchy is not collectivist. [editline]01:56PM[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;20341231]It's communism by blunt definition, in the way the economy is held up. But, the politics operate more like a Dynasty would.[/QUOTE] it's not communism in any right.

If there is another invasion, would the North or the South/US use the same old strategy? Also, is NK's military really strong? Do they make their own war machines or buy from Russia?

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20341487]this is not socialistic right? [editline]01:41PM[/editline] and socialism isn't borderline communist, it's two different things. [editline]01:46PM[/editline] Because fat people are invulnerable to family problems, getting hurt or mental illness? well shit, in that case I'm fucking gaining weight NOW. uh, no, you said the only people who don't succeed are the ones who don't put maximum effort into the economy. what if they're overweight? I REALLY don't see how you got that, but you REALLY think capitalism doesn't do that? That would suck, but good thing communism doesn't do that. and you do in communism. uh, you don't know what communism is, do you? [editline]01:55PM[/editline] Anarchy is not collectivist. [editline]01:56PM[/editline] it's not communism in any right.[/QUOTE] You keep saying communism is different from the whole commune bullshit! please explain so kindly what you think communism is...all i've read about it is, is that all land and property is dealt out to everyone and rich people are killed because they happen to be better off or work for their things. Fat people just shouldn't get welfare, its their own fucking fault, if life bites you in the ass well that sucks, and they need some help. Capitalism doesn't take property from people, i still have a house, ill call you when capitalism takes it away and gives it to someone else...oh wait thats only communism, the shithole of politics. face it political extremes are bad, as shown throughout history they don't work, only centrism really. Can you tell me though why you support communism? Also its jealousy, some poor guy on the street sees a guy driving a porsche he wants it, what better way than to kill him and claim it was his fault. No he got the money, he bought, you have no right to take it from him. Same goes for a company. I saw a guy in china once who walked past a rolls-royce (mind you he was in rags) and said "one day, one day I shall buy you"... that is what works, people with motivation. Who knows he might own a company today... in communism he would never have the chance

[QUOTE=Earthen;20341974]You keep saying communism is different from the whole commune bullshit! please explain so kindly what you think communism is...all i've read about it is, is that all land and property is dealt out to everyone and rich people are killed because they happen to be better off or work for their things. Fat people just shouldn't get welfare, its their own fucking fault, if life bites you in the ass well that sucks, and they need some help. Capitalism doesn't take property from people, i still have a house, ill call you when capitalism takes it away and gives it to someone else...oh wait thats only communism, the shithole of politics. face it political extremes are bad, as shown throughout history they don't work, only centrism really. Can you tell me though why you support communism? Also its jealousy, some poor guy on the street sees a guy driving a porsche he wants it, what better way than to kill him and claim it was his fault. No he got the money, he bought, you have no right to take it from him. Same goes for a company. I saw a guy in china once who walked past a rolls-royce (mind you he was in rags) and said "one day, one day I shall buy you"... that is what works, people with motivation. Who knows he might own a company today... in communism he would never have the chance[/QUOTE] If you can't be assed enough to fucking learn what communism is, then don't fucking argue. Jesus. You keep going on that communism gives all the money to fat people, kills rich people, I'm ignoring the commune aspect what the fuck are you even talking about? You're pulling so much shit out of your ass I can't even begin to argue with you. and your last little bit is a fake anecdote that prays off your fake idea of what communism you are literally too fucking stupid to argue with

Oh yeah, insults and swearing will sure convince him.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20342648]If you can't be assed enough to fucking learn what communism is, then don't fucking argue. Jesus. You keep going on that communism gives all the money to fat people, kills rich people, I'm ignoring the commune aspect what the fuck are you even talking about? You're pulling so much shit out of your ass I can't even begin to argue with you. and your last little bit is a fake anecdote that prays off your fake idea of what communism you are literally too fucking stupid to argue with[/QUOTE] The last bit wasn't fake, it happened, i understand that you don't have any heart-warming experiences in your life, but thats okay...i guess. Meh, i'll be learning about it next week for like 3 months in history, should be fun. I'll make sure to prove you wrong. You still haven't convinced me why communism "works". I'd rather stick to something that will give me a chance of a good life.

[QUOTE=Tu154M;20342843]Oh yeah, insults and swearing will sure convince him.[/QUOTE] Thread after thread of dealing with Earthen, I just don't care. [editline]04:52PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Earthen;20343118]The last bit wasn't fake, it happened, i understand that you don't have any heart-warming experiences in your life, but thats okay...i guess. Meh, i'll be learning about it next week for like 3 months in history, should be fun. I'll make sure to prove you wrong. You still haven't convinced me why communism "works". I'd rather stick to something that will give me a chance of a good life.[/QUOTE] Because you going to high school history class makes you a fucking expert, right? A Finnish high school... we're still getting past the fact you don't know what communism is. when you say shit like communism kills rich people, you honestly think I'm going to take your word? we can't have a protracted debate about the inner working of an ECONOMIC system, if you don't fucking understand how it works. [editline]04:53PM[/editline] and you have a stupid habbit of making these weird conclusions about my life like this, for example. [QUOTE]i understand that you don't have any heart-warming experiences in your life, but thats okay...i guess.[/QUOTE] this is worse then me just calling you stupid, this shit is intellectually dishonest

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20343437]Thread after thread of dealing with Earthen, I just don't care. [editline]04:52PM[/editline] Because you going to high school history class makes you a fucking expert, right? A Finnish high school... we're still getting past the fact you don't know what communism is. when you say shit like communism kills rich people, you honestly think I'm going to take your word? we can't have a protracted debate about the inner working of an ECONOMIC system, if you don't fucking understand how it works. [editline]04:53PM[/editline] and you have a stupid habbit of making these weird conclusions about my life like this, for example. this is worse then me just calling you stupid, this shit is intellectually dishonest[/QUOTE] Correction, it won't make me a genius, but it will educate me some more, and its an international school...soooo yeah. Also what do you mean by "finnish high school" are you saying we're biased? I don't see whats so hard about quickly explaining to me what you think communism is... I've done my own research on it for fun, and from what I've read (oh no it must be evil pig dog capitalist lies and filth) communism is not that great of an idea.

Sounds like easy grounds for revolution, or those who murdered thousands and are trying to flee justice, abandoned apartments.

[QUOTE=Kazumi;20301861]Not entirely true. People try to jump the borders all the time. Hell, even guards near the DMZ have tried. And say that to the thousands and thousands of people stuck in prison camps so horrible they can be compared to the ones Nazi Germany created. If not worse. [url]http://ncafe.com/northkorea/SunOkLeeTestimony_w_llus.pdf[/url] Goddamn, I get depressed every time I read this. Especially with the knowledge that such atrocities happens TODAY. If you're too lazy to read it all, just scroll down and look at the illustrations and read the names of each 'chapter'.[/QUOTE] That has to be among one of the most horrifying things I've ever read in my entire life.

[QUOTE=Earthen;20344428]Correction, it won't make me a genius, but it will educate me some more, and its an international school...soooo yeah. Also what do you mean by "finnish high school" are you saying we're biased?[/quote] I'm saying you're very biased. And no, just because you're in a high school history class, it doesn't even make you more fucking educated. [quote]I don't see whats so hard about quickly explaining to me what you think communism is... I've done my own research on it for fun, and from what I've read (oh no it must be evil pig dog capitalist lies and filth) communism is not that great of an idea.[/QUOTE] The point of a fucking debate is not for me to educate you. If you don't understand the goddamn topic, don't argue it. Jesus, you're brainless. You obviously haven't if you think communism kills rich people. You're either stupid as hell or a flat out liar. [editline]06:14PM[/editline] and research? where? wikipedia?

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20344654]I'm saying you're very biased. And no, just because you're in a high school history class, it doesn't even make you more fucking educated. The point of a fucking debate is not for me to educate you. If you don't understand the goddamn topic, don't argue it. Jesus, you're brainless. You obviously haven't if you think communism kills rich people. You're either stupid as hell or a flat out liar. [editline]06:14PM[/editline] and research? where? wikipedia?[/QUOTE] So school doesn't educate me? I don't get what you're going at here. No the point of a debate is to convince me using facts and so on. You have yet to convince me. Example of communism killing rich people: My great grandfather was a bank director, communists killed him, why? he was rich. End of. Yeah my research consists of more than wikipedia... some of us use libraries. But of course they are also evil capitalist creations... where shall I learn, i might go hit up marx's, but he's dead. I understand the topic very clearly, communism is bad.

In some low level, biased education system, no, you don't really become an economist. I can't every well fucking convince you if you don't know what the hell you're talking about. The simple fact you can't even understand communism doesn't kill rich people, that leads me to believe you're lying. That or you're incredibly stupid. sorry slappy, I can't find it anywhere in Marx's works that says we have to kill bank directors.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20345089]In some low level, biased education system, no, you don't really become an economist. I can't every well fucking convince you if you don't know what the hell you're talking about. The simple fact you can't even understand communism doesn't kill rich people, that leads me to believe you're lying. That or you're incredibly stupid. sorry slappy, I can't find it anywhere in Marx's works that says we have to kill bank directors.[/QUOTE] Its the IB, read up on it, probably learn more in these two years than you did in your whole educational experience. You keep telling me the same thing, you obviously don't know about it either, you're just trying to be edgy by saying communism is cool. I'm pretty sure Marx said something about overthrowing the bourgeoisie... really all that implies is kill rich people because they made you that way. Which is quite frankly utter bullshit today, I have more money than a worker (well my parents do whatever), is it my fault? Its like my old school trying to tell me that I'm guilty for Africans starving...

[QUOTE=Earthen;20345190]Its the IB, read up on it, probably learn more in these two years than you did in your whole educational experience. [/quote] We've been over this, label it IB, doesn't make you a scholar. [quote]You keep telling me the same thing, you obviously don't know about it either, you're just trying to be edgy by saying communism is cool. [/quote] gee thanks, Freud. I am SO glad you found out my deepest darkest secret. hey, i can play this too [quote]I'm pretty sure Marx said something about overthrowing the bourgeoisie... really all that implies is kill rich people because they made you that way. Which is quite frankly utter bullshit today, I have more money than a worker (well my parents do whatever), is it my fault? Its like my old school trying to tell me that I'm guilty for Africans starving...[/QUOTE] please, find me where Marx said to overthrow the bourgeoisie and NOT incite revolution people who take advantage of workers.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20345501]We've been over this, label it IB, doesn't make you a scholar. gee thanks, Freud. I am SO glad you found out my deepest darkest secret. hey, i can play this too please, find me where Marx said to overthrow the bourgeoisie and NOT incite revolution people who take advantage of workers.[/QUOTE] The facts clearly show that the IB is better than the other educational programmes... "Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains. " closest I could find without reading his dribble. According to wikipedia " In order to overcome the fetters of private property the working class must seize political power internationally through a social revolution" Social revolution is violent, point proven.

uh ... that's it? a quote that states workers have to unite? And then insulting his work? that's all you got? Wikipedia also fails to state communism is stateless, it's not an adequate source. and it doesn't factor in reformists.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20345798]uh ... that's it? a quote that states workers have to unite? And then insulting his work? that's all you got? Wikipedia also fails to state communism is stateless, it's not an adequate source. and it doesn't factor in reformists.[/QUOTE] Dude I'm not gonna spend more than 5 minutes looking up bullshit quotes for an internet debate... Then find a better fucking website. Also what happens after the stateless shit, is it just like a bunch of people sitting together on a farm? heres a southpark episode that very clearly depicts how bullshit communists are: [url]http://www.stansdad.com/season9/episode2/[/url] towards the end they talk about it

then don't get in the fucking debate I. Will. Not. Educate you. You cited a south park episode yeah, you are literally too goddamn stupid to argue with. I'm done

[QUOTE=Trotsky;20345951]then don't get in the fucking debate I. Will. Not. Educate you. You cited a south park episode yeah, you are literally too goddamn stupid to argue with. I'm done[/QUOTE] Yeah the south park episode was a joke, IF you had watched it, you would understand the whole thing, but alright. Cool, I win then.

...Why weren't you aborted?