[QUOTE=Not64;52509612]The reason why they push it on kids is because the earlier you start HRT, the better. If you're MtF and start HRT at 12 you will be indistinguishable from other girls. But if you start at 18, then testosterone has already done a fair amount of damage to your body. There really is no clear cut answer as to how to solve this. I guess all we can hope for is the tech to get better.[/QUOTE]
Starting HRT early could make you transition into a gender that, when older, you decide you don't want to transition to and actually want to stay the same. Either way you could be screwed. Like you said, all we can hope is for the tech to get better
That is a face only a daugher-son can love.
i think that ladies little circle diagram hit the nail on the head
just let people do anything
[QUOTE=Not64;52509168]I'm starting to think that the concept of "gender identity" isn't real. Sure, you can become the opposite sex if you want to, but I think all of this other stuff that surrounds it to justify it is pretty dangerous. It's kind of like they're taking the success of the gay rights movement and superimposing it on this transgender thing. They're completely different things.[/QUOTE]
How is it dangerous?
hmmmmm the takes here are piping hot
let kids explore their identity, first off. they'll be the best to judge whether they're a boy, girl, or otherwise, and letting them explore this now and support them in whatever path they take is going to benefit later on (more compassionate and understanding in regard to gender roles and stereotyoes, avoids getting fucked by a combo of gender dysphoria without a way to describe it/a non-supportive family)
people aren't going to give their kids hrt at a young age, at the most if the kid makes the conscious decision to explore their identity further to see if transitioning is right for them, they'll be given puberty blockers to give them more time to adapt and explore themselves without getting fucked by the changes puberty brings if they do decide to transition (also a significant amount of the changes hrt makes are naturally reversed if you stop medicating for it)
in conclusion, stop your shit and let the kids live as they may, please and thank you
[QUOTE=kariko;52510752]How is it dangerous?[/QUOTE]
There is a whole spectrum of reasons why people decide to transition. Some people want it more than others and some people change their mind. Some people even decide to [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2jyEDwpEw]detransition[/url]. If you accept the concept of gender identity and all of the politics that surround it, then you must accept that there is a "female-wired" brain and a "male-wired" brain. Otherwise, the concept of gender identity makes no sense. To think that your gender is etched into your brain at birth is pretty far-fetched, especially when you consider how the 2nd wave feminists were trying to disprove exactly that.
I think the only reason why the concept of "gender identity" exists is because, within the context of our hetero-normative society, we need to come up with some sort of "condition" to explain why we want to change our sex. When in reality it's just something that you want. Some people want it extremely badly, and that's where they conflate it with "gender identity" I think.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52511045]When people make posts like these making really reaching assertions about issues that are hard to wrap your head around, especially when it comes to things relationing to trans/gender subjects I can't help but wonder
Does the idea of people expressing themselves and thinking of themselves in a way that doesn't mesh with your world view just make you uncomfortable? The meaning of what it means to be a man or a woman has changed drastically between time periods and cultures even to this day. Why is it dangerous [B][I]now?[/I][/B][/QUOTE]
I think you misread my post.
[QUOTE=Not64;52511089]There is a whole spectrum of reasons why people decide to transition. Some people even decide to [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2jyEDwpEw"]detransition[/URL]. Some people want it more than others and some people change their mind. If you accept the concept of gender identity and all of the politics that surround it, then you must accept that there is a "female-wired" brain and a "male-wired" brain. Otherwise, the concept of gender identity makes no sense. To think that your gender is etched into your brain at birth is pretty far-fetched, especially when you consider how the 2nd wave feminists were trying to disprove exactly that.
I think the only reason why the concept of "gender identity" exists is because, within the context of our hetero-normative society, we need to come up with some sort of "condition" to explain why we want to change our sex. When in reality it's just something that you want. Some people want it extremely badly, and that's where they conflate it with "gender identity" I think.
I think you misread my post.[/QUOTE]
Oh I see, your post came off to me as, well basically how Vodkavia described it. I thought you were afraid of trans people and thought them being themselves or transitioning was "dangerous". So I also misread your post, sorry about that.
Oh, that explains the dumb ratings, then. I wonder if anyone actually disagrees with that. I know there are some people who do, or else the concept of gender identity wouldn't be so prevalent
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52509633]Starting HRT early could make you transition into a gender that, when older, you decide you don't want to transition to and actually want to stay the same. Either way you could be screwed. Like you said, all we can hope is for the tech to get better[/QUOTE]
That's what puberty blockers are for. They let the child grow old enough to be able to definitively know what they want while preventing puberty from causing irreversible changes.
Only once they know for sure and a doctor okays it, do they go on HRT.
If they decide to stay the way they were born, they just stop taking the blockers and continue their lives with no real side effects.
[QUOTE=Not64;52511089]There is a whole spectrum of reasons why people decide to transition. Some people want it more than others and some people change their mind. Some people even decide to [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2jyEDwpEw"]detransition[/URL]. If you accept the concept of gender identity and all of the politics that surround it, then you must accept that there is a "female-wired" brain and a "male-wired" brain. Otherwise, the concept of gender identity makes no sense. To think that your gender is etched into your brain at birth is pretty far-fetched, especially when you consider how the 2nd wave feminists were trying to disprove exactly that.
I think the only reason why the concept of "gender identity" exists is because, within the context of our hetero-normative society, we need to come up with some sort of "condition" to explain why we want to change our sex. When in reality it's just something that you want. Some people want it extremely badly, and that's where they conflate it with "gender identity" I think.[/QUOTE]
But [B]if[/B] there isn't gender identity and it's just a thing you want then gender dysphoria is made up and you can just reason yourself out of it. And gender reorientation camps are actually a good idea.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52511230]Uh care to back this up/elaborate, because this is creating some horrific imagery.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty straightforward. Not64 makes an argument that "gender identity" which translates to as he put it "female-wired" brain and a "male-wired" brain, doesn't exist, instead it's "just something that you want".
If you are not locked to your gender identity because it doesn't exist, you can just reason yourself out of gender dysphoria or you can be reasoned out of it by someone else. So if he was right you could go into therapy and just stop having gender dysphoria (without transitioning) and other methods would probably work as well.
That's just not the case. You can't choose. You can't reason yourself out of it or be reasoned out of it by someone else. The suicide rate of the people who tried is terrifying and those who didn't commit suicide never stopped having dysphoria.
Gender dysphoria doesn't necessarily come from gender identity. I'd argue it's the other way around. Further, you cannot reason yourself out of something you want. For instance, I want a bowl of wonton soup right now. I can accept that I won't get it anytime soon, but I can't just make myself not want it anymore.
[QUOTE=Not64;52511268]Gender dysphoria doesn't come from gender identity. It's the other way around. [/QUOTE]
What? Gender identity comes from gender dysphoria? What? How? What are you talking about? So someone who isn't transgender doesn't have gender identity? That makes absolutely 0 sense.
[QUOTE=Not64;52511268]Further, you cannot reason yourself out of something you want. For instance, I want a bowl of wonton soup right now. I can accept that I won't get it anytime soon, but I can't just make myself not want it anymore.[/QUOTE]
Sure you can. People have reasoned themselves from wanting many things and turned to religion instead. People have been reasoned out of many things and many beliefs about themselves thanks to therapy.
Your idea denies what psychology teaches today.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52511340]I mean besides the fact that you got his post backwards... what is your basis for thinking dysphoria is just something you can "reason" yourself out of? Secondly, the whole "you can do x y z" instead of transition is bunk because that's based on the assumption that there's trans people and there's cis people and nothing in between and that transitioning is thought of some "catchall solution" for everyone who doesn't have a conventional gender identity. (it isn't)[/QUOTE]
I think you are the one who got my post backwards because I'm arguing you can't reason yourself out of dysphoria.
I mean you quoted this.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52511265]It's pretty straightforward. Not64 makes an argument that "gender identity" which translates to as he put it "female-wired" brain and a "male-wired" brain, doesn't exist, instead it's "just something that you want".
If you are not locked to your gender identity because it doesn't exist, you can just reason yourself out of gender dysphoria or you can be reasoned out of it by someone else. So if he was right you could go into therapy and just stop having gender dysphoria (without transitioning) and other methods would probably work as well.
[B]That's just not the case. You can't choose. You can't reason yourself out of it or be reasoned out of it by someone else. The suicide rate of the people who tried is terrifying and those who didn't commit suicide never stopped having dysphoria.[/B][/QUOTE]
Gender dysphoria is legitimate. After all, it's just discomfort with your own gender. Gender identity is what I have a problem with. The people who coined it took gender dysphoria used it to affirm that there two different types of the human brain.
About the reasoning thing, you're right, my bad. But you can only reason yourself out of something you want [i]if the reasoning makes sense[/i] (i.e. the thing you wanted wasn't what you had in mind). Like, if someone put a bowl of wonton soup in front of me that had a dead skunk in it, then I would reason that I don't want that specific bowl of wonton soup. But I still want a bowl of wonton soup, granted that it doesn't have a dead animal in it.
Similarly, someone could reason themselves out of transition because they want a functioning uterus and the technology isn't good enough yet. But what if you want to transition simply because you just want breasts and a psuedo-vagina? How could you possibly reason yourself out of that? The technology is there, you can do it.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52511385]Your wording just confuses me for some reason.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean? If what Not64 was right then this this and that would be true and it's not.
I am claiming that gender identity, the idea that one's gender is immutably tied to one's brain, is made up.
[QUOTE=Not64;52511390]Gender dysphoria is legitimate. After all, it's just discomfort with your own gender. Gender identity is what I have a problem with. It takes gender dysphoria uses it to affirm that there two different types of the human brain.[/quote]
But how can you have gender dysphoria without gender identity? You get dysphoria when your identity doesn't match your body.
And there's an easy sollution to your problem. Allow more than 2 gender identities. I mean 2 is what most people have so it's what people bring up but you could have someone who has gender identity that doesnt match male or female.
[quote=Not64;52511390]About the reasoning thing, you're right, my bad. But you can only reason yourself out of something you want [i]if the reasoning makes sense[/i] (i.e. the thing you wanted wasn't what you had in mind). Like, if someone put a bowl of wonton soup in front of me that had a dead skunk in it, then I would reason that I don't want that specific bowl of wonton soup. But I still want a bowl of wonton soup, granted that it doesn't have a dead animal in it.
Similarly, someone could reason themselves out of transition because they want a functioning uterus and the technology isn't good enough yet. But what if you want to transition simply because you just want breasts and a psuedo-vagina? How could you possibly reason yourself out of that? The technology is there, you can do it.[/QUOTE]
The fact that you allow some trans people to be reasoned out of dysphoria should already defeat your argument. You just cant do it. And if you could then it would leave too much room for exploiting that possibility.
[editline]27th July 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52511413]Problem there is you're conflating gender identity with some sort of conspiracy to push people to transition? I'm not sure I follow.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you should reread my posts. I'm not arguing agaisnt transitioning. I'm arguing gender identity exists and you are locked to it.
The colloquial definition of gender identity I am referring to is outlined [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity]here[/url]. I believe you are basing your arguments on bad information.
This whole things seems very misguided from the father's (Mapa's) perspective. She/he was born with a hormonal disbalance and hence had to be transgender out of pure necessity. The kids, on the other hand, look perfectly normal, but still Mapa actively encourages his kids to choose a gender, to follow his example etc. This is incredibly confusing for them and you can even see how uncomfortable the long-haired son gets, when asked the question - "what pronoun do you want today?"
Children take after their parents because they don't know any better. When Mapa asks the question - "what do you want to be?", the son replies: "Just like you", because that's the example he's been set.
This seems like active facilitation of transgenderism towards one's offspring, even if Mapa doesn't realize it.
I am all for trans people who have realized they feel off in their current body, more power to them.
But children who have been set dubious examples by self-righteous trans parents have a huge risk of developing serious mental issues and social distress without any reason other than bullshit "forward thinking" parents.
[QUOTE=Not64;52511487]The colloquial definition of gender identity I am referring to is outlined [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity]here[/url]. I believe you are basing your arguments on bad information.[/QUOTE]
I've thought a lot about "gender identity" and how it often reinforces an unnecessary gender binary, and holy hell does it become a touchy subject. A lot of it boils down to cultural ideas of masculinity and femininity. Even decades ago, in lesbian communities, there was "butch" and "femme." I'm sorta just left wondering why that masc/fem distinction needs to exist at all. I know a lot of very androgynous people who are both masculine and feminine. Essentially everyone in the world expresses both masculinity and femininity depending on the social context and their own personality - yet it's so regularly distilled to a single trait and tied to gender and personal identity.
I'm really all for the kind of stuff in this video, even if it's a bit hamfisted at times. The expectation that boys play with trucks and girls play with dolls, or similarly masculine/feminine roles, is totally unnecessary. Some people take it way too far, though. The point is giving children the freedom to express themselves without forcing gendered expectations on them. That means you put the boys and girls in one room and pile the toys in the middle and let them pick whatever the fuck they want. That [I]doesn't[/I] mean you force boys to play with dolls and girls to play with construction sets. A lot of people make the mistake of trying to force an equality of choice, missing the entire point. This goes for adults, too - I'm always super frustrated when I see "feminist" friends ripping into famous women for sexist shit. If you're a woman who wants to be a housewife who wears pink and likes to shop at the mall, that's your goddamn right.
Like the post above mentions, you need to be careful to balance the freedom of choice with more social pressure. We should [I]let[/I] kids express themselves outside of gendered norms, but we shouldn't introduce any kind of [I]pressure[/I] for kids to do so.
[QUOTE=Not64;52511487]The colloquial definition of gender identity I am referring to is outlined [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity"]here[/URL]. I believe you are basing your arguments on bad information.[/QUOTE]
Yeah? That's what I'm basing my arguments on.
Gender identity is the way you feel about your [U]own[/U] gender. It says so in your link. You have sex, biological aspect, and then you have gender identity, your psychological aspect. I was born a man and my gender identity is also male. As a result I don't have gender dysphoria.
In your logic, I don't have gender identity because I don't have gender dysphoria. It makes no sense to me. Gender dysphoria happens when your gender identity doesn't match your sex. There is no gender dysphoria if there is no gender identity.
If gender dysphoria is "just something you want" then it's just like the transphobic conservatives think it is: "You want to have boobs or whatever, it's just an urge, forget about it". If it's just an urge you can be reasoned out of it or get a therapy and work your way out of it.
I think you really underestimate just how fucked gender dysphoria is. Imagine looking in a mirror and not seeing yourself but a hairy butch gorilla while feeling like a sensitive and fragile girl, or seeing little and fragile girl in the mirror while feeling like a alpha male lumberjack. Imagine the feeling if tomorrow you'd wake up in a completely different body and face, that you don't connect yourself with and nobody but you saw the difference. That feeling alone is just devastating. Add to that people who will call you a freak and a deviant for wishing to change your body to, after god knows how many years of your life, finally see yourself in the mirror. People get disowned by their parents when they come out as trans. The suicide rate of transgender people is like over 40% last time I checked. It really affects your life every second of every day and it makes you feel like shit, down to small things like freaking out every time you need to use a public bathroom. And that's just a glimpse of gender dysphoria from someone who hasn't experienced it. Nobody would go through it if it was "just something you want" that you could possibly reason yourself out of.
People would willingly go to the gender reorientation camps or therapy if they worked. But they don't. Because you are locked to your gender identity. There's no way to change it. And it's mountains more than "just something you want". It's the core of your own identity.
Your problem seems to be that it doesn't allow people to have nonfemale-nonmale gender identity therefore the entire concept is wrong. Okay imagine we don't have a word for being bisexual, then you come around and go "well I don't like how sexuality doesn't allow people to be attracted to both men and women therefore sexuality doesn't exist, nobody has it". That's how your argument looks to me. Everybody has gender identity, it's just that in the vast majority of cases it matches the sex that someone was born with. The problem you are having can easily be resolved by arguing for gender identity to be a spectrum instead of arguing it doesn't exist as a whole. And I think that most people who aren't 100% against transitioning would agree with you. Yeah in majority of cases it's binary but there are exceptions. Just like humans have 2 sexes but there are exceptions to that as well.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52513073]Yeah? That's what I'm basing my arguments on.
Gender identity is the way you feel about your [U]own[/U] gender. It says so in your link. You have sex, biological aspect, and then you have gender identity, your psychological aspect. I was born a man and my gender identity is also male. As a result I don't have gender dysphoria.
In your logic, I don't have gender identity because I don't have gender dysphoria. It makes no sense to me. Gender dysphoria happens when your gender identity doesn't match your sex. There is no gender dysphoria if there is no gender identity.
If gender dysphoria is "just something you want" then it's just like the transphobic conservatives think it is: "You want to have boobs or whatever, it's just an urge, forget about it". If it's just an urge you can be reasoned out of it or get a therapy and work your way out of it.
I think you really underestimate just how fucked gender dysphoria is. Imagine looking in a mirror and not seeing yourself but a hairy butch gorilla while feeling like a sensitive and fragile girl, or seeing little and fragile girl in the mirror while feeling like a alpha male lumberjack. Imagine the feeling if tomorrow you'd wake up in a completely different body and face, that you don't connect yourself with and nobody but you saw the difference. That feeling alone is just devastating. Add to that people who will call you a freak and a deviant for wishing to change your body to, after god knows how many years of your life, finally see yourself in the mirror. People get disowned by their parents when they come out as trans. The suicide rate of transgender people is like over 40% last time I checked. It really affects your life every second of every day and it makes you feel like shit, down to small things like freaking out every time you need to use a public bathroom. And that's just a glimpse of gender dysphoria from someone who hasn't experienced it. Nobody would go through it if it was "just something you want" that you could possibly reason yourself out of.
People would willingly go to the gender reorientation camps or therapy if they worked. But they don't. Because you are locked to your gender identity. There's no way to change it. And it's mountains more than "just something you want". It's the core of your own identity.
Your problem seems to be that it doesn't allow people to have nonfemale-nonmale gender identity therefore the entire concept is wrong. Okay imagine we don't have a word for being bisexual, then you come around and go "well I don't like how sexuality doesn't allow people to be attracted to both men and women therefore sexuality doesn't exist, nobody has it". That's how your argument looks to me. Everybody has gender identity, it's just that in the vast majority of cases it matches the sex that someone was born with. The problem you are having can easily be resolved by arguing for gender identity to be a spectrum instead of arguing it doesn't exist as a whole. And I think that most people who aren't 100% against transitioning would agree with you. Yeah in majority of cases it's binary but there are exceptions. Just like humans have 2 sexes but there are exceptions to that as well.[/QUOTE]
I believe you are extrapolating a bit too much. I know exactly how gender dysphoria works. As I have previously stated, I am not dismissing gender dysphoria, nor the experiences of transgender people. I am dismissing the concept of gender identity and gender identity [i][b]only[/b][/i]. Nothing more, nothing less.
[QUOTE=Not64;52514023]I believe you are extrapolating a bit too much. I know exactly how gender dysphoria works. As I have previously stated, I am not dismissing gender dysphoria, nor the experiences of transgender people. I am dismissing the concept of gender identity and gender identity [i][b]only[/b][/i]. Nothing more, nothing less.[/QUOTE]
You still haven't explained how gender identity comes from gender dysphoria. And how people without dysphoria don't have gender identity.
You still leave room for being reasoned out of dysphoria, which is impossible to our current understanding, and if you could do that, lots of people would be doing that and the transphobes who are arguing for reorientation camps would have some truth to their argument but they don't.
You still haven't explained how the solution to your problem with gender identity can't be that gender identity is a spectrum instead of saying it doesn't exist.
Isn't the actual trans population incredibly small? Why would you centre your childrens views around that?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52514814]You still haven't explained how gender identity comes from gender dysphoria. And how people without dysphoria don't have gender identity.
You still leave room for being reasoned out of dysphoria, which is impossible to our current understanding, and if you could do that, lots of people would be doing that and the transphobes who are arguing for reorientation camps would have some truth to their argument but they don't.
You still haven't explained how the solution to your problem with gender identity can't be that gender identity is a spectrum instead of saying it doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]
Here is a person who has reasoned themselves out of gender dysphoria (which I have linked previously in our discussion, but I guess you missed it). I recommend watching it in its entirety: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2jyEDwpEw[/url] I am not saying that [i]everyone[/i] is capable of this. For this person specifically, becoming male was not the solution to their problems. In other cases, gender reassignment may be the most sensible option.
As for the other stuff:
[img]http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/templates/qhcfv3/images/bullet_black.png[/img] I never said anything about reorientation camps.
[img]http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/templates/qhcfv3/images/bullet_black.png[/img] Gender identity comes from gender dysphoria because gender identity is a politically motivated concept that extrapolates from the real condition of gender dysphoria.
[img]http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/templates/qhcfv3/images/bullet_black.png[/img] As for the "gender identity is a spectrum" thing, that just makes no sense. There are two genders: male and female.
[QUOTE=Luafox;52515196]those are sexes and even then I think you've got it wrong because chromosones are weird and biology is weird, there are intersex conditions that are more common than one would think.[/QUOTE]
yes, but it would basically become a measure of how masculine/feminine you are, in which case calling it "gender identity" would be misleading. anyway, that's a whole other can of worms.
[QUOTE=Not64;52515145]Here is a person who has reasoned themselves out of gender dysphoria (which I have linked previously in our discussion, but I guess you missed it). I recommend watching it in its entirety: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2jyEDwpEw[/URL] I am not saying that [I]everyone[/I] is capable of this. For this person specifically, becoming male was not the solution to their problems. In other cases, gender reassignment may be the most sensible option.[/QUOTE]
So if I understand this correctly this person went female to male and then back. She detransitioned because as she put it "I knew I couldn't keep running from myself, dissociating from myself, because acknowledging my reality as a woman was vital to my mental health". Then she says she was prescribed hormones and got a go for transitioning after 3 or 4 visits at a psychologist and it took only 3 months "with no real, meaningful attempt made to process the issues" that she was facing.
So it looks like she never should have gone through it? Had she had "real, meaningful attempts made to process the issues" she was facing at the time she wouldn't have gone through transitioning? So she was diagnosed incorrectly? If you go to a doctor and you get prescribed meds for pox while you actually don't have it, it doesn't mean that pox doesn't exist. She didn't actually have gender dysphoria in the first place, if she had she should have felt great as a guy and she didn't, she feels like a woman. There are many mental issues that a person can face that can make you hate your own body or feel like you aren't yourself. An incompetent psychologist can incorrectly diagnose them as gender dysphoria and you will regret transitioning later. I don't remember the procedure in detail now but I remember that a (competent) psychologist has to actually rule out all other options before they give you a go for transitioning (and prescribe you life altering meds). And the transitioning person should be regularly seeing that psychologist. I'm actually shocked how unprofessional her transition was.
Anyway this example doesn't invalidate gender identity at all. All this does is actually confirming that her gender identity was always female and it can't change. She didn't reason herself out of dysphoria as you've put it. When she was physically becoming a man she understood that was not the issue she was having. If that person is capable of reasoning herself out of dysphoria, then it should work in the opposite way too no? She was almost (I think) fully transitioned, she should have, by your logic, just reasoned herself to become a man (as that would've been easier than detransitioning).
[QUOTE=Not64;52515145]
[IMG]http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/templates/qhcfv3/images/bullet_black.png[/IMG] I never said anything about reorientation camps.[/QUOTE]
No you said there's an option of reasoning yourself out of dysphoria. If that was the case then gender reorientation camps would have some validity to them and they don't. Your statement doesn't exist in a vacuum. It has consequences. It's like you said the earth is flat and I answered "but what about the satellites" and you replied "but I haven't said anything about satellites"
[QUOTE=Not64;52515145][IMG]http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/templates/qhcfv3/images/bullet_black.png[/IMG] Gender identity comes from gender dysphoria because gender identity is a politically motivated concept that extrapolates from the real condition of gender dysphoria.[/QUOTE]
You really have to explain this one to me because I have no idea what you're trying to say. My gender identity is male, and my body is male, I don't have gender dysphoria.
[QUOTE=Not64;52515145][IMG]http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/templates/qhcfv3/images/bullet_black.png[/IMG] As for the "gender identity is a spectrum" thing, that just makes no sense. There are two genders: male and female.[/QUOTE]
So you created a definition that's restrictive, and then you say it makes no sense and therefore doesn't exist.
Okay then, my definition of sexuality is: you are either straight or gay. But I know there are bisexual people out there therefore sexuality is a social construct, it doesn't exist and nobody has it.
Human's sex is also male or female, but just because there are some rare exceptions to this, it doesn't mean that sex doesn't exist.
[QUOTE=Not64;52515225]yes, but it would basically become a measure of how masculine/feminine you are, in which case calling it "gender identity" would be misleading. anyway, that's a whole other can of worms.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure why that's "misleading" or a "whole other can of worms".
If we're taking gender as expressions of what we consider "masculine" and "feminine" traits (clothing style, hair style, interests, mannerisms, etc.) mapped to a sex (male/masculine, female/feminine), why does "gender identity" make no sense? You could identify more as one than the other, or only one, or some hybrid of both (hence the "GI is a spectrum" dealio).
Do not conflate sex and gender, they are separate things, one being biological the other being psychological/ partially social.
Someone with a male sex but a more feminine gender (based on standard western society at least) could rather than enjoy cars and shit as a kid enjoy dressing up dolls as they identify more with what society expects females to do. Someone who identifies wholly as a person of the "other" gender however may not feel comfortable in their body and as a result experience gender dysphoria.
I'm not entirely sure how this becomes "misleading" or a problem in any sense. GI as a term does make sense.
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