Police Officer Shoots, Kills Firefighter While Being Beaten In The Face - General

[QUOTE=Hinterlight;44105059]So what, the cop just shouldn't arrest the guy if he is drunk and breaking the law?[/QUOTE] Is letting the guy go free and wrestling a big drunk guy who clearly doesn't want to cooperate [B]on your own[/B] the only 2 possible options? What did he expect was gonna happen? That he's not gonna fight back? If yes, then it's a pretty stupid assumption to make and it has cost a man his life, if no then the cop overestimated himself and that got a man killed too. He could have waited for more cops to show up, which would be a risk of course, or do something even riskier, he chose the latter.

Predicting what a drunken person could do is like trying to draw out a a card and guessing it's number and suit.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;44105404]Predicting what a drunken person could do is like trying to draw out a a card and guessing it's number and suit.[/QUOTE] Predicting what a drunken muscled guy is gonna do[B] when you're gonna tackle [/B]him is like predicting what a fucking grizzly bear is gonna do if you tackle it. He already assaulted a taxi driver and didn't want to cooperate with police. I think that's a tiny bit of indication what's gonna happen.

It doesn't really matter how questionable the officers risk assessment was, sometimes you just have to go with what you think is appropriate at the time and do your job, and he has the right to protect himself while doing it. Yes, it's tragic, but you can't criticise someone for just doing their job - the circumstances can't be perfect for the police all the time. Sometimes they just have to do the best they can.

The cop handled that situation so fucking poorly. He should of called back up and done nothing to try and physically touch the man. Follow him the fuck around until back up shows up. This guy should get suspended at the very least. If at work I over estimate what I can do and the company suffers because I fail to complete said work I would be punished. This officer over estimated what he could do and a man ended up dead. He needs to be punished and he needs to think about how he can solve problems without resorting to physical violence. That being said I wish I could see the 5 minutes leading up to the point the video starts at. Unless the FF charged him and that is what initiated physical contact the cop is at fault IMHO. I don't think it was cold blooded murder or that the cop intended to kill the man. I just think he over estimated his ability to physically restrain a fucking bull. The bystanders should not of got involved in anyway what-so-ever, they most likely would of just end up hurt/dead.

I'm not saying he should go to prison for murder or anything. What he did was within his authority. What I am saying is that he could have done it in a safer way, which maybe wouldn't let to a man's death.

To anyone here crying police brutality : have you ever been with a truly drunk, violent person? Someone that you know in your personal life? Because it isn't pretty and joyful. It is the worst in the human brain that comes out. The person will not listen, go on stark mad ravings at the mention of a word and will injure/kill a person / injure/kill himself without ever having the slightest realization of doing so. It is one of the singular reasons why you should fear alcohol overconsumption, and don't give me that crap about "learning to handle it". I've seen tough guys wander into traffic, girls breaking a mans face in with a barstool and a bouncer get his foreheard impaled by the bottom foot of a large wine glass by a pale skinny guy raving about his feelings. I am certain that that firefighter, in his drunken rage that was flaring up instantly, would have beaten that cop into a coma, or even killing him. His restraints were off, his pain receptors nulled, and his eyes filled with red. He would not feel any sort of emotion other then anger. (note : It's not all black/white, alchohol can be great, but it's fucking dangerous when you start being drunk all the time. Also I might be preaching like a pastor here, but I felt the need to say it. I've lost friends to it, and I never, ever want to underestimate it.)

while i'm always amazed at how well british police officers do their jobs without firearms, and how few die, but it's scary to think that a british cop may have died in this situation then again i've never seen a british police officer operate on their own - they're always in pairs

[QUOTE=Marvison;44105551]The cop handled that situation so fucking poorly. He should of called back up and done nothing to try and physically touch the man. Follow him the fuck around until back up shows up. This guy should get suspended at the very least. If at work I over estimate what I can do and the company suffers because I fail to complete said work I would be punished. This officer over estimated what he could do and a man ended up dead. He needs to be punished and he needs to think about how he can solve problems without resorting to physical violence. That being said I wish I could see the 5 minutes leading up to the point the video starts at. Unless the FF charged him and that is what initiated physical contact the cop is at fault IMHO. I don't think it was cold blooded murder or that the cop intended to kill the man. I just think he over estimated his ability to physically restrain a fucking bull. The bystanders should not of got involved in anyway what-so-ever, they most likely would of just end up hurt/dead.[/QUOTE] You're honestly comparing your punch-in, punch-out job to being a beat cop on a night out? The fucking officer can't just file a requisition to get back up, he had to handle the situation then and there. Why would you even want to watch the drunk progress out in the streets? Did you not notice other bystanders that were in the area? The suspect already assaulted a cab driver, why would you continue to let him walk around unrestrained and risk having a bystander have their face numbed and go to the hospital? Especially seeing what this man was capable of doing, I was glad the cop took charge of the situation as opposed to some other partygoer that may have fared far worse.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44105708]while i'm always amazed at how well british police officers do their jobs without firearms, and how few die, but it's scary to think that a british cop may have died in this situation then again i've never seen a british police officer operate on their own - they're always in pairs[/QUOTE] American policing and English policing are two different types of policing. English policing works a lot better in my opinion because of the lack of weapons in the commonplace. Given that the London Metro. police were the first department, theres a lot more to work with.

I love how the people are filming, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HIM!!!" and he tries to respond, then gets flipped over and the situation immediately turns around; "DON'T DO ANYTHING TO THE COP!" then he starts punching and, gets shot as a proper response. The people filming could have helped the officer, and this 'newlywed' firefighter, as to why these make any difference from an ordinary person, would still be alive.

[QUOTE=Covalency;44105876]I love how the people are filming, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HIM!!!" and he tries to respond, then gets flipped over and the situation immediately turns around; "DON'T DO ANYTHING TO THE COP!" then he starts punching and, gets shot as a proper response. The people filming could have helped the officer, and this 'newlywed' firefighter, as to why these make any difference from an ordinary person, would still be alive.[/QUOTE] I'd rather not enlist the help of other bystanders that may have also been buzzed at a party or after a night out in the city.

Those "fuck da poeleec" types are so annoying.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;44105741]You're honestly comparing your punch-in, punch-out job to being a beat cop on a night out? The fucking officer can't just file a requisition to get back up, he had to handle the situation then and there. Why would you even want to watch the drunk progress out in the streets? Did you not notice other bystanders that were in the area? The suspect already assaulted a cab driver, why would you continue to let him walk around unrestrained and risk having a bystander have their face numbed and go to the hospital? Especially seeing what this man was capable of doing, I was glad the cop took charge of the situation as opposed to some other partygoer that may have fared far worse.[/QUOTE] No matter how you look at it he did he job poorly.

[QUOTE=Marvison;44106143]No matter how you look at it he did he job poorly.[/QUOTE] i dont know if you can look at it like that especially with that much hindsight yeh the guy got over-powered and probably should have had backup (why he was operating on his own i dont know. is this normal in the US? seems ridiculous. police here always work in pairs as a minimum) so what should he have done? waited for backup? followed the guy around? for how long? let him go? the fireman had already assaulted a cab driver. how would the news story "police fail to apprehend violent suspect who then goes on to assault/rape/kill someone" sound? pretty bad. i don't think he could have possibly foreseen the events that unfolded

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44106177]i dont know if you can look at it like that especially with that much hindsight yeh the guy got over-powered and probably should have had backup (why he was operating on his own i dont know. is this normal in the US? seems ridiculous. police here always work in pairs as a minimum)[/QUOTE] I think he was off duty, working security. [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44106177]so what should he have done? waited for backup? followed the guy around? for how long? let him go?[/QUOTE] Waiting for more cops as the guy is on the ground and the cop standing on top of him seems like the safest thing to do. What if he had a knife or something, the cop could have died before he drew his gun after he started wrestling. [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44106177]i don't think he could have possibly foreseen the events that unfolded[/QUOTE] Uhh you just said [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44106177]the fireman had already assaulted a cab driver.[/QUOTE] and he doesn't want to cooperate with the police? What else do you expect a buff, drunk, aggressive guy like that is gonna do? There was every indication that this would lead to a struggle. The cop thought he could overpower the guy and the thought wrong so he had to resort to lethal force to save his own life.

If you start beating the shit out of a cop, you deserve to get shot. Seriously.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44106177]i dont know if you can look at it like that especially with that much hindsight yeh the guy got over-powered and probably should have had backup (why he was operating on his own i dont know. is this normal in the US? seems ridiculous. police here always work in pairs as a minimum) so what should he have done? waited for backup? followed the guy around? for how long? let him go? the fireman had already assaulted a cab driver. how would the news story "police fail to apprehend violent suspect who then goes on to assault/rape/kill someone" sound? pretty bad. i don't think he could have possibly foreseen the events that unfolded[/QUOTE] it's normal procedure to have only 1 officer on patrol/in a patrol car due to spread out resources, especially in a large city. and plus the guy was off duty working at a part-time security job.

[QUOTE=Marvison;44106143]No matter how you look at it he did he job poorly.[/QUOTE] are you serious right now you're pretty much just saying "YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE YOU ARE"

[QUOTE=Marvison;44106143]No matter how you look at it he did he job poorly.[/QUOTE] How did he do a poor job? Guy broke the law, assaulted a dude. Police officer shows up whose job it is to enforce the law. Places the man under arrest. When someone is under arrest, an officer can use the amount of force necessary to do so. Guy resists arrest. Cop was being pretty diplomatic at the start of the video, probably buying time for back up. Guy starts resisting and fighting the cop. Gets on top of the cop and starts beating him. Officer can't do shit but draw his weapon since his gun and right arm are all that's free. It's a justified shooting. Have you ever tried to put a guy who didn't want to be handcuffed in handcuffs? It's fucking impossible. What about serve a warrant. ALONE. Because the city's got 100,000 warrants backed up and making a big push to serve them so there can't be 2+ officers every time? What about on the ground at 2 AM fighting for control of your gun against a guy hopped up on drugs 130lbs heavier than you are? You can do everything by the book, shit can still go wrong, and not every situation is written down because there's an infinite number of them. That's why there's this thing called Police Discretion Large cities can not have 2 officers per car all the time. Hell most of the time they can't. Even the police do small tricks to make it look like there are more of them patrolling the streets than there are. This guy wasn't even on duty so he had no one with him. It's not uncommon for officers to take extra security jobs. You stand around and shoot the shit for 5 hours and make $150 or whatever. Pretty decent gig. Just hope some fuckhead doesn't ambush you from the shadows as you escort the manager with the day's take to her car

[QUOTE=Marvison;44106143]No matter how you look at it he did he job poorly.[/QUOTE] He can't go in expecting a fight. He can't back off because "he could floor me". These are 2 humans here, he isn't an actual animal, and the cop has to assume the guy will cooperate.

Sounds like he was an ass hole (beat a cab driver over money), did the world a favor. Call it harsh or nasty, the world is full of shit bags that just seems to grow and grow. ALCOHOL IS NO EXCUSE.

[QUOTE=Marvison;44106143]No matter how you look at it he did he job poorly.[/QUOTE] Yeah i'd rather he let the drunk walk around an potentially cause more damage. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[QUOTE=Solid_Granite;44110499]He can't go in expecting a fight. He can't back off because "he could floor me". These are 2 humans here, he isn't an actual animal, and the cop has to assume the guy will cooperate.[/QUOTE] The reason the cop started wrestling him was BECAUSE the guy wouldn't cooperate and let the cop put handcuffs on him. [QUOTE=Tetsmega;44110651]Yeah i'd rather he let the drunk walk around an potentially cause more damage. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.[/QUOTE] This strawman already appeared on the last page. Letting the guy go and wrestling him alone are not the only 2 possibilities. He has him on the ground, he controls the situation now. Safest thing to do would be to wait for back up.

[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;44106395]it's normal procedure to have only 1 officer on patrol/in a patrol car due to spread out resources, especially in a large city.[/QUOTE] that's fucking stupid. get more funding

There's no way you're going to taser someone whose beating you in the fucking head SPECIALLY when you've got no backup with you, he had to go straight to his last resort option and [B][U]neutralize the threat[/U][/B]

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44111425]that's fucking stupid. get more funding[/QUOTE] Not going to happen. No support for it. Its great to have a partner in the car, but realistically you just cant sustain any department smaller than LA with it. One officer per thousand people is average for department density.. and it works out ok

why didn't the officer just pepper spray him in the leg instead? talk about police brutality

[QUOTE=Code3Response;44111957]Not going to happen. No support for it. Its great to have a partner in the car, but realistically you just cant sustain any department smaller than LA with it. One officer per thousand people is average for department density.. and it works out ok[/QUOTE] wow that's sounds really bad. i honestly dont think police should operate on their own. it creates too much uncertainty and fear and means officers have to rely too much on tools to even the playing field, be it a taser or a firearm. unless my maths is off, i think there's one policeman for every 250 people in london when you include the PCSOs, not counting the volunteers. that must be part of the reason the met is so successful without firearms

You can hear a pretty bad crack on the second punch :(