• Ghosts and the paranormal
    608 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Jookia;38636916]Why can't we explain these things?[/QUOTE] Obviously because we're still pretty new and the Universe is a big place so it'll take a while before we've familiarized all of it's concepts.
[QUOTE=Chrille;38636312]I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but I'm sure that you missed my point.[/QUOTE] No your point was clear. 2000 years ago people believed in ghosts, but that's not true. Even today people believe in ghosts, and even 2000 years ago some people definitely didn't believe in ghosts.
[QUOTE=Jookia;38636916]Why can't we explain these things?[/QUOTE] I don't know, you tell me. You're the one that keeps asking these questions.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;38637791]No your point was clear. 2000 years ago people believed in ghosts, but that's not true. Even today people believe in ghosts, and even 2000 years ago some people definitely didn't believe in ghosts.[/QUOTE] That's not the point, at all. The point is that, like the earth being flat, ghosts and spirits are an ancient belief that does not fit with the evidence that modern science provides. 2000 years was an arbitrary number that I used because it was in the post that I quoted. I then asked if that wan't a good enough reason to stop people from believing in it. I am well aware that there are people who still believe in ghosts, and that there were people who did not 2000 years ago.
[QUOTE=Chrille;38639979]That's not the point, at all. The point is that, like the earth being flat, ghosts and spirits are an ancient belief that does not fit with the evidence that modern science provides.[/QUOTE] Those beliefs didn't fit with the evidence, or the lack of it, that ancient science provided either.
I dont think we`ll ever be able to explain anything as long as we have a concept called time. Maybe nothing has a beginning or end. Maybe everything just is...
[QUOTE=reedbo;38638774]I don't know, you tell me. You're the one that keeps asking these questions.[/QUOTE] So don't say we can't explain something if there's no reason why we can't.
[QUOTE=SteenRNS;38635941]When began time?[/QUOTE] 13.75 ± 0.11 billion years ago.
[QUOTE=Jookia;38643917]So don't say we can't explain something if there's no reason why we can't.[/QUOTE] The reasoning behind why we can't explain some things is the fact that we lack certain knowledge, I've already gone over this. What are you trying to get at? Either you can't prove/disprove ghosts or you've got no argument left. I don't see what you constantly asking me questions is showing. Explaining ghosts is on the same level as explaining the origin of the universe, it currently can't be explained. These topics aren't black and white like you wish they would be, you can't just simply explain them with our current knowledge, therefore you can't say that they don't exist.
I thought you meant explaining them is impossible, not that we lack the knowledge currently.
[QUOTE=Chrille;38629613]It does, however, mean that there is no reason to assume it exists. [/QUOTE] Actually, given that some people have had experiences that can't be debunked, that could be used as a reason to assume something of this sort exists, to the person him/herself at the very least.
There is a spiritual and paranormal world out there that sees what society is doing with the definition of ghosts, ufos, stories, actual happenings (see post 38) etc and using that as a gateway to us. If you open urself up u will get into a "dmz" or no-firewall area where there are no rules anymore. The reason why psycics and mediums exist is because some of them are actually legit and have (foolishly) opened themselves up to the spirit world. Take the american indians for example. They exhausted themselves so much so they could be mentally asleep and still physically awake. This was to recieve spiritual guidance and stuff like that. Most people don't believe in it because they haven't seen it first hand and they don't want to believe that there is something that is uncontrollable and in a different state to our physical one. My 2cents lol
[QUOTE=thet3rm1n8r;39366852]There is a spiritual and paranormal world out there that sees what society is doing with the definition of ghosts, ufos, stories, actual happenings (see post 38) etc and using that as a gateway to us. If you open urself up u will get into a "dmz" or no-firewall area where there are no rules anymore. The reason why psycics and mediums exist is because some of them are actually legit and have (foolishly) opened themselves up to the spirit world. Take the american indians for example. They exhausted themselves so much so they could be mentally asleep and still physically awake. This was to recieve spiritual guidance and stuff like that. Most people don't believe in it because they haven't seen it first hand and they don't want to believe that there is something that is uncontrollable and in a different state to our physical one. My 2cents lol[/QUOTE] Are they composed of any matter or energy at all? And energy as in, it can be converted into matter and vice versa.
Maybe we'll all learn some incredible secret once we die, and it will change everything, but not until you're dead!
They exist out of our physical control and measurement so would only be able to be sensed by humans and not recorded in a camera or similar device.
[QUOTE=thet3rm1n8r;39366852]There is a spiritual and paranormal world out there that sees what society is doing with the definition of ghosts, ufos, stories, actual happenings (see post 38) etc and using that as a gateway to us. If you open urself up u will get into a "dmz" or no-firewall area where there are no rules anymore. The reason why psycics and mediums exist is because some of them are actually legit and have (foolishly) opened themselves up to the spirit world. Take the american indians for example. They exhausted themselves so much so they could be mentally asleep and still physically awake. This was to recieve spiritual guidance and stuff like that. Most people don't believe in it because they haven't seen it first hand and they don't want to believe that there is something that is uncontrollable and in a different state to our physical one. My 2cents lol[/QUOTE] Your two cents are wrong. [QUOTE=thet3rm1n8r;39374195]They exist out of our physical control and measurement so would only be able to be sensed by humans and not recorded in a camera or similar device.[/QUOTE] If it can be sensed by humans, it can be measured. That's how all of science works.
[QUOTE=Jookia;39374299]Your two cents are wrong. If it can be sensed by humans, it can be measured. That's how all of science works.[/QUOTE] Well you cant really broadcast it to the whole world with video. You have to see it for urself to believe it. Science is about recording observations and getting examples like chemicals and things like that. Spirits dont really fall into that category but probably could be studied if people didnt get shit scared by ghosts and ufos and if there were enough instances of the same spirit to be catalogued etc
There is no evidence to prove they exist, hard, actual non anecdotal proven unfalsifiable evidence. Therefore they don't exist and the belief that they do is erroneous.
[QUOTE=Pubichair;39374435]There is no evidence to prove they exist, hard, actual non anecdotal proven unfalsifiable evidence. Therefore they don't exist and the belief that they do is erroneous.[/QUOTE] As you said there is no hard quantifiable evidence to support it so you either believe or you dont
[QUOTE=thet3rm1n8r;39374583]As you said there is no hard quantifiable evidence to support it so you either believe or you dont[/QUOTE] You don't believe things if there are no evidence.
Ghosts can also exist only if someone commited suicide, and thier spirit remains until they're ready to leave. Or murdered. No wonder we saw Micheal Jackson's ghost. If per say that if it is.
[QUOTE=thet3rm1n8r;39374404]Well you cant really broadcast it to the whole world with video. You have to see it for urself to believe it. Science is about recording observations and getting examples like chemicals and things like that. Spirits dont really fall into that category but probably could be studied if people didnt get shit scared by ghosts and ufos and if there were enough instances of the same spirit to be catalogued etc[/QUOTE] Scientific methodology covers a lot more than just chemicals bud. The big reason I don't think ghosts exist, is because to date, no reputable scientific experiment has confirmed their existence. [editline]27th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=benos28;39375208]Ghosts can also exist only if someone commited suicide, and thier spirit remains until they're ready to leave. Or murdered. No wonder we saw Micheal Jackson's ghost. If per say that if it is.[/QUOTE] What causes a ghost to be created? What causes your consciousness held in the fleshy matter inside your head to somehow get out and turn into a ethereal being?
Also the idea that the mind floats off of the brain at death violates the law of the conservation of energy. If a soul is composed of something, it has to have energy. If there was a soul for every human, then there could be an infinite number of souls because the physical constituents of a person are recyclable. If it is composed of nothing, then it doesn't exist. I don't think this argument will actually convince anyone who believes in this sort of thing though.
[QUOTE=Falubii;39378240]Also the idea that the mind floats off of the brain at death violates the law of the conservation of energy. If a soul is composed of something, it has to have energy. If there was a soul for every human, then there could be an infinite number of souls because the physical constituents of a person are recyclable. If it is composed of nothing, then it doesn't exist. I don't think this argument will actually convince anyone who believes in this sort of thing though.[/QUOTE] Probably because if they believe in it in the first place they don't really care about logic and reason.
You guys ever heard of a movie called "Return to Babylon"? It's a remake of an old short movie from the silent movie era, about stars who had great, glamorous lives and then suddenly suffer a fatal demise, like heavy depression, suicide, and so on. If I remember it right, the shootings were made in some famous mansion, where odd things started to happen. The actors felt tired very easily, and like there was something touching them, and started to complain that something weird and "extraordinary" was going on there. The director dismissed it. Meanwhile, the director started to act in a more odd, extravagant way from his usual self. Despite all that, they finished it. During editing, the director found something odd and unnerving, and called the actors to take a look at the finished product. They took a look at it, and they were freaked out by what they saw, asking if he had done anything for it to come out the way it did, to which he replied he had nothing to do with the macabre things going on in it. If you paused the picture in some frames, the faces of the actors acquired desfigured, ghoulish features, like hollowed out eyes and mouth, women that suddenly had what seemed to be a beard, whited out eyes, ghostly appearances, and shadows resembling what people would call a demon casted off of the crew. People have already accused the director of making a deal with the devil, and he has no idea how that happened. Professionals have already analyzed the film, and have no explanation whatsoever for it either. I think it looks a lot like that smudging that happens when you freeze a frame and the motion of something gets stuck in it, but since professionals say they don't have an explanation... I've already posted this in the generally creep stuff thread, and if you are gonna talk about it or post something about it, [b]please post the link. Don't hotlink whatever you want to show. That thing seriously creeped me the fuck out, regardless of how plausible it is, so please, just leave a link.[/b]
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39384233]You guys ever heard of a movie called "Return to Babylon"? It's a remake of an old short movie from the silent movie era, about stars who had great, glamorous lives and then suddenly suffer a fatal demise, like heavy depression, suicide, and so on. If I remember it right, the shootings were made in some famous mansion, where odd things started to happen. The actors felt tired very easily, and like there was something touching them, and started to complain that something weird and "extraordinary" was going on there. The director dismissed it. Meanwhile, the director started to act in a more odd, extravagant way from his usual self. Despite all that, they finished it. During editing, the director found something odd and unnerving, and called the actors to take a look at the finished product. They took a look at it, and they were freaked out by what they saw, asking if he had done anything for it to come out the way it did, to which he replied he had nothing to do with the macabre things going on in it. If you paused the picture in some frames, the faces of the actors acquired desfigured, ghoulish features, like hollowed out eyes and mouth, women that suddenly had what seemed to be a beard, whited out eyes, ghostly appearances, and shadows resembling what people would call a demon casted off of the crew. People have already accused the director of making a deal with the devil, and he has no idea how that happened. Professionals have already analyzed the film, and have no explanation whatsoever for it either. I think it looks a lot like that smudging that happens when you freeze a frame and the motion of something gets stuck in it, but since professionals say they don't have an explanation... I've already posted this in the generally creep stuff thread, and if you are gonna talk about it or post something about it, [B]please post the link. Don't hotlink whatever you want to show. That thing seriously creeped me the fuck out, regardless of how plausible it is, so please, just leave a link.[/B][/QUOTE] That honestly just sounds like the movie marketing team trying to build up some sort of hype for their movie. So they made up a horror story to get people to watch the film out of curiosity when it comes out.
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39384233]You guys ever heard of a movie called "Return to Babylon"? It's a remake of an old short movie from the silent movie era, about stars who had great, glamorous lives and then suddenly suffer a fatal demise, like heavy depression, suicide, and so on. If I remember it right, the shootings were made in some famous mansion, where odd things started to happen. The actors felt tired very easily, and like there was something touching them, and started to complain that something weird and "extraordinary" was going on there. The director dismissed it. Meanwhile, the director started to act in a more odd, extravagant way from his usual self. Despite all that, they finished it. During editing, the director found something odd and unnerving, and called the actors to take a look at the finished product. They took a look at it, and they were freaked out by what they saw, asking if he had done anything for it to come out the way it did, to which he replied he had nothing to do with the macabre things going on in it. If you paused the picture in some frames, the faces of the actors acquired desfigured, ghoulish features, like hollowed out eyes and mouth, women that suddenly had what seemed to be a beard, whited out eyes, ghostly appearances, and shadows resembling what people would call a demon casted off of the crew. People have already accused the director of making a deal with the devil, and he has no idea how that happened. Professionals have already analyzed the film, and have no explanation whatsoever for it either. I think it looks a lot like that smudging that happens when you freeze a frame and the motion of something gets stuck in it, but since professionals say they don't have an explanation... I've already posted this in the generally creep stuff thread, and if you are gonna talk about it or post something about it, [b]please post the link. Don't hotlink whatever you want to show. That thing seriously creeped me the fuck out, regardless of how plausible it is, so please, just leave a link.[/b][/QUOTE] You just told me a creepypasta story (which I enjoy), but we are dealing with ghosts and shit here, which can't seem to be verifiable by any scientific study done so far.
I have little doubt there is something we can't explain. More then likely just the spirits of people who lost their way, don't believe they've died, or have something they still need to do. Or maybe life was hell for them, so as punishment, they must spend eternity here. I don't know, I've had experiences that are unexplainable, but that's not enough.
Well if you HAD to rationalize the existence of ghosts, you have to go far out in the murky waters of uselessly thoretical quantum ish science. So lets do that for fun. If multiverse theory is correct, and considering there is no limit to the amount of universes that can exist, then every single possibly concievable universe, in every single possible concievable time, could exist. If the laws of science are allowed to fluxuate between universes, and two universes can fold together, then its possible that two universes on the same 'wavelength', may intersect, placing a deceased person in a limbo, between a universe where he/she survived, and a universe where he/she died. Effectively creating a third possible universe where the person is neither dead nor alive. In other words, its so close to infinitely unlikely that you might aswell consider it impossible.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;39386919]Well if you HAD to rationalize the existence of ghosts, you have to go far out in the murky waters of uselessly thoretical quantum ish science. So lets do that for fun. If multiverse theory is correct, and considering there is no limit to the amount of universes that can exist, then every single possibly concievable universe, in every single possible concievable time, could exist. If the laws of science are allowed to fluxuate between universes, and two universes can fold together, then its possible that two universes on the same 'wavelength', may intersect, placing a deceased person in a limbo, between a universe where he/she survived, and a universe where he/she died. Effectively creating a third possible universe where the person is neither dead nor alive. In other words, its so close to infinitely unlikely that you might aswell consider it impossible.[/QUOTE] If infinite universes did exist, wouldn't there be a universe were someone had the ability to travel between the universes, and would have done so already? Which means that I would have met a traveler from another universe at every moment in my life, because of the infinite combinations?
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