I used to live in a pretty large manor house which was supposedly haunted. Everybody in my family who lived there claims to have witnessed something paranormal... children laughing, people screaming, old women the end of the bed, black figures moving across the room, things being thrown, doors slamming, faces at windows and the general bullshit like that. Went so far my mother had the place exorcised of evil spirits. Despite it all, I didn't once see anything out of the ordinary while living there, all the tales of ghosts at the place just reinforced my scepticism, and the belief that my family is full of headcases.
[QUOTE=Chrille;39388853]If infinite universes did exist, wouldn't there be a universe were someone had the ability to travel between the universes, and would have done so already? Which means that I would have met a traveler from another universe at every moment in my life, because of the infinite combinations?[/QUOTE]
You could be living in one of a nearly infinite categorization of universes that doesnt allow for travellers to visit it.
[editline]28th January 2013[/editline]
You really cant argue about this though so i probably shouldnt have voiced it. Its also a completely useless postulation, so dont actually take it seriously.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39386419]You just told me a creepypasta story (which I enjoy), but we are dealing with ghosts and shit here, which can't seem to be verifiable by any scientific study done so far.[/QUOTE]
It isnt a creepypasta...
[editline]28th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Valnar;39385859]That honestly just sounds like the movie marketing team trying to build up some sort of hype for their movie. So they made up a horror story to get people to watch the film out of curiosity when it comes out.[/QUOTE]
Thats what I thought aswell. The stuff I can remember looked like simple smudging blur or just coincidences done by just regular filming. I saw it first on a ghost story show, so dont know if true or false since it wreaks of publicity even withpeople saying its real.
Scientifically, I can't think of any reason why there would be ghosts or anything paranormal, however I do find that the idea of ghosts or the paranormal is very interesting, even if its fake.
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39390352]It isnt a creepypasta...
[/QUOTE]
It obviously isn't ghosts. I haven't seen it, but if the actors change faces it's evidently been toyed with. It isn't exactly difficult to do.
[editline]28th January 2013[/editline]
Alright, I watched it. It was hardly anything, looked like artifacts of the film at best. And I found an explanation on IMDb:
[quote]The movie is filmed at a high speed like the old silent movies of the '20s and when you pause it at a certain point, the frame that is frozen will look messed up because it is actually more than one frame put together. It's just a movie. There's nothing "otherworldly" about it. This is Alex Monty's fourth movie. He's not a big name in Hollywood so he's just trying to make himself famous by cooking up a supposed "ghost story" on the set of the movie. I am watching "My Ghost Story" right now and saw the segment talking about this movie. There are explanations for ALL of the images.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39386419]You just told me a creepypasta story (which I enjoy), but we are dealing with ghosts and shit here, which can't seem to be verifiable by any scientific study done so far.[/QUOTE]
Because something can't be verified by scientific doesn't mean that it is impossible to exist. There are plenty of things outside our realm of knowledge but you shouldn't assume that something is impossible until you can prove it otherwise.
[QUOTE=reedbo;39393593]Because something can't be verified by scientific doesn't mean that it is impossible to exist. There are plenty of things outside our realm of knowledge but you shouldn't assume that something is impossible until you can prove it otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Like?
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;39386919]Well if you HAD to rationalize the existence of ghosts, you have to go far out in the murky waters of uselessly thoretical quantum ish science. So lets do that for fun.
If multiverse theory is correct, and considering there is no limit to the amount of universes that can exist, then every single possibly concievable universe, in every single possible concievable time, could exist.
If the laws of science are allowed to fluxuate between universes, and two universes can fold together, then its possible that two universes on the same 'wavelength', may intersect, placing a deceased person in a limbo, between a universe where he/she survived, and a universe where he/she died. Effectively creating a third possible universe where the person is neither dead nor alive.
In other words, its so close to infinitely unlikely that you might aswell consider it impossible.[/QUOTE]
You shouldn't even entertain that as a remote possibility. What you just wrote was science fiction.
[QUOTE=Chrille;39392412]It obviously isn't ghosts. I haven't seen it, but if the actors change faces it's evidently been toyed with. It isn't exactly difficult to do.
[editline]28th January 2013[/editline]
Alright, I watched it. It was hardly anything, looked like artifacts of the film at best. And I found an explanation on IMDb:[/QUOTE]
Ah, so it is what I thought.
Why do they say they got professionals analyzing and say no way to explain it? Are they that desperate for attention?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39393597]Like?[/QUOTE]
Origination of the big bang. Quantum physics. Mass etc.. Science is theories, nothing is 100% true.
[QUOTE=Falubii;39393919]You shouldn't even entertain that as a remote possibility. What you just wrote was science fiction.[/QUOTE]
Not that redundancy isnt hilarious.
But thats almost exactly what i said.
[QUOTE=reedbo;39394766]Origination of the big bang. Quantum physics. Mass etc.. Science is theories, nothing is 100% true.[/QUOTE]
Gravity and evolution is a theory too.
[QUOTE=reedbo;39393593]Because something can't be verified by scientific doesn't mean that it is impossible to exist.[/QUOTE]
It's sad that you have to argue this.
[QUOTE=reedbo;39393593]There are plenty of things outside our realm of knowledge[/QUOTE]
No there's not.
[QUOTE=reedbo;39393593]you shouldn't assume that something is impossible until you can prove it otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Assuming you mean 'doesn't exist' instead of impossible, I disagree. Assume nothing exists until it's proven.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;39394793]Not that redundancy isnt hilarious.
But thats almost exactly what i said.[/QUOTE]
But in your post you still gave the impression that it was possible based on some rudimentary understanding of sting theory.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39393597]Like?[/QUOTE]
The multiverse theory for instance.
[QUOTE=thet3rm1n8r;39374583]As you said there is no hard quantifiable evidence to support it so you either believe or you dont[/QUOTE]
Imho ghosts either exist or they don't.
Same with god, they can't exist and not exist at the same time. That's kind of a huge dilemma before we even get into the argument.
[QUOTE=reedbo;39393593]Because something can't be verified by scientific doesn't mean that it is impossible to exist. There are plenty of things outside our realm of knowledge but you shouldn't assume that something is impossible until you can prove it otherwise.[/QUOTE]
It's entirely unhelpful to consider everything that can't be proven impossible as a possibility.
[QUOTE=reedbo;39393593]Because something can't be verified by scientific doesn't mean that it is impossible to exist. There are plenty of things outside our realm of knowledge but you shouldn't assume that something is impossible until you can prove it otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Are you SERIOUSLY saying that there could VERY WELL be an entire another planet where GHOSTS lived? Or what are they, where would they live, doing what?
I mean, dude, ghosts are a product of the human mind to start with. So... that kind of runs the argument into the ground before it even got off.
[editline]29th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jookia;39396573]It's sad that you have to argue this.
No there's not.
Assuming you mean 'doesn't exist' instead of impossible, I disagree. Assume nothing exists until it's proven.[/QUOTE]
I think your way of thinking is a pretty dull way to go about it, too. But I suppose it's rational.
When anyone says "outside of our realm of knowledge" I automatically assume it is still inside the same information pool, which is The Universe.
And from what we've gathered, there is almost like an endless variation of species that can grow into life, some of which DO have the resemblance of a ghost, (but are not ghosts in the usual bullshit-sense.) So, you can very well assume that even more varying species exist outside of our knowledge, even on our very planet.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;39398960]The multiverse theory for instance.[/QUOTE]
The multiverse hypothesis is actually based on mathematics and some of our current understanding of physics. We shouldn't entertain [i]every[/i] idea that is unverifiable.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39396190]Gravity and evolution is a theory too.[/QUOTE]
But because we have a foundation for those theories to exist one can assume that they are true. Those of you who are certain that ghosts don't exist have no foundation to claim that they do not exist.
[QUOTE=Jookia;39396573]It's sad that you have to argue this.
No there's not.
Assuming you mean 'doesn't exist' instead of impossible, I disagree. Assume nothing exists until it's proven.[/QUOTE]
I'm not arguing that ghost exist. I'm simply stating that you can't possibly claim with 100% certainty that ghosts do not exist; It is merely an assumption based on a lack of evidence for the existence of ghosts. I'm claiming that we currently do not posses the knowledge to say for sure whether ghosts or the paranormal exist or do not exist.
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;39399209]It's entirely unhelpful to consider everything that can't be proven impossible as a possibility.[/QUOTE]
I'm not asking you to consider that it is a possibility I'm asking that you acknowledge that you have not concrete evidence that leads you to believe that ghosts and the paranormal do not exists. You're merely making an assumption because you have no evidence for or against the existence of ghosts and the paranormal.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;39402213]Are you SERIOUSLY saying that there could VERY WELL be an entire another planet where GHOSTS lived? Or what are they, where would they live, doing what?
I mean, dude, ghosts are a product of the human mind to start with. So... that kind of runs the argument into the ground before it even got off.
[/QUOTE]
I'm sure a lot of you believe that there are aliens out there in the universe so why is it so hard to grasp the concept that there could be something that exists without having any proof of it's existence?
[editline]29th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Falubii;39405341]The multiverse hypothesis is actually based on mathematics and some of our current understanding of physics. We shouldn't entertain [i]every[/i] idea that is unverifiable.[/QUOTE]
Simply not entertaining the idea is different from outright claiming with 100% certainty that there is no way it's possible to exist.
[QUOTE=reedbo;39406135]But because we have a foundation for those theories to exist one can assume that they are true. Those of you who are certain that ghosts don't exist have no foundation to claim that they do not exist.[/QUOTE]
Erm, the burden of proof is on you to prove ghosts mate.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35328026]
For example, one might say ghosts have the ability to go through walls and can float about. However were this possible, then the earth would rotate around the sun and leave the ghost to drift aimlessly in the vacuum of space.
[/QUOTE]
I knew it! Ghosts do not exist, and the sun rotates around the earth!
I don't really know what your position is about ghosts reedbo, but I'd say given all that we currently know, ghosts aren't real. If some actual strong evidence of their existence was provided, then they'd absolutely exist and a new domain of science would be created to study them. Until that evidence comes around though, I don't see why one would waste brain power thinking about them.
[editline]29th January 2013[/editline]
You guys meant revolve btw.
There is a reason no properly controlled scientific tests replicate the existence of paranormal activity and why every claim to existence I see here is either word of mouth or personal experience
[QUOTE=reedbo;39406135]But because we have a foundation for those theories to exist one can assume that they are true. Those of you who are certain that ghosts don't exist have no foundation to claim that they do not exist.[/QUOTE]
Scientific theories have a lot of evidence, they are built on studies and observations. Scientific theories have to go through a lot of rigour to become theories.
There has never been any actual evidence of ghosts that couldn't be explained by some other phenomena.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39406161]Erm, the burden of proof is on you to prove ghosts mate.[/QUOTE]
I'm not trying to prove that ghosts exist nor am I claiming that they do. Mate.
[editline]29th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Valnar;39407414]Scientific theories have a lot of evidence, they are built on studies and observations. Scientific theories have to go through a lot of rigour to become theories.
There has never been any actual evidence of ghosts that couldn't be explained by some other phenomena.[/QUOTE]
Nor has there been any evidence suggesting that ghosts cannot exist. Not that you have to provide any proof but simply state that you do not know for sure whether ghosts exist or not. I'm agnostic on the existence of ghosts much like other things that I do not have the knowledge to comprehend. It's not that hard to understand that you don't know everything therefor can't possibly explain something that may exist outside of our understanding.
[QUOTE=reedbo;39408023]
Nor has there been any evidence suggesting that ghosts cannot exist. Not that you have to provide any proof but simply state that you do not know for sure whether ghosts exist or not. I'm agnostic on the existence of ghosts much like other things that I do not have the knowledge to comprehend. It's not that hard to understand that you don't know everything therefor can't possibly explain something that may exist outside of our understanding.[/QUOTE]
Well that's not entirely true. There's good reason to think they don't exist. Many of their behaviors defy known laws of physics and the way they are reported (exclusively by eye witness testimony) is very shady. We can of course play this agnosticism game with any number of "possible" phenomena.
I'm sure your familiar with the cosmic teapot. It goes like this, "Nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice."
[QUOTE=Falubii;39408142]Well that's not entirely true. There's good reason to think they don't exist. Many of their behaviors defy known laws of physics and the way they are reported s very shady. We can of course play this game with any number of "possible" phenomena.
I'm sure your familiar with the cosmic teapot. It goes like this, "Nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice."[/QUOTE]
There are also plenty of well documented cases of first hand experience where people believe that they have interacted and experienced the paranormal. Is it not reasonable for those with first hand experience to decide whether or not they believe in such things? I fully agree that it's reasonable to be skeptical about something that you have no knowledge or experience of but that does not mean that it's pointless and silly for those that do to believe in such things. I can say with 100% certainty that the collective knowledge of humanity is very limited in terms of what we understand and that it's reasonable to assume that it's possible for the paranormal to exist but we just don't understand it yet. Personally I don't believe in the paranormal but I won't say that it doesn't exist. I am uncertain about the existence of the paranormal.
Eye witness testimony is one of the most unreliable forms of evidence.
[QUOTE=Falubii;39408281]Eye witness testimony is one of the most unreliable forms of evidence.[/QUOTE]
So is the 'evidence' against the paranormal. Oh wait, there isn't any.
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