• Ghosts and the paranormal
    608 replies, posted
All is well and good in skeptic town until you look up a summoning ritual in the Ars Goetia and it goes awry.
[QUOTE=SteenRNS;39434833]Considering what lived on earth in prehistoric times ,i dont think other planets only have cute cats and puppies.[/QUOTE] No you are right it was a bit of an underestimation, considering the variety of species on Earth, I bet the variety grows even more when you take other planets into account.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39435103]All is well and good in skeptic town until you look up a summoning ritual in the Ars Goetia and it goes awry.[/QUOTE] Can you provide any links to something specific, all I've found is people playing stereotypical horror sounds and doing metal-screaming. Hardly conclusive stuff.
[QUOTE=waoop;39435848]Can you provide any links to something specific, all I've found is people playing stereotypical horror sounds and doing metal-screaming. Hardly conclusive stuff.[/QUOTE] Then try it yourself! Go find yourself a grimoire (Ideally one with reference to the ars goetia) and see if you can't find a fun character to play with, For best most soul shattering results I reccomend Leviathan or Azmodeus. Whatever arbitrary requisites the grimoire asks for you must do. If that means getting the blood from a bull slaughtered at midnight on the 3rd moon, then that's what you gotta do. Have fun, and before you start this skeptical experiment I suggest that you skeptically analyze a binding/banishing chapter or two. Here is the [url="http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/grimoire/goetia.pdf"]lesser key of Solomon[/url] for you to cherry pick from. If you end up in a bad way the only who can save you is YHShWH. Atleast that is how it works, but I'm sure you're smart enough to look past it and not call on him. Also for your family's sake don't do this in or near your house.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39451686]Then try it yourself! Go find yourself a grimoire (Ideally one with reference to the ars goetia) and see if you can't find a fun character to play with, For best most soul shattering results I reccomend Leviathan or Azmodeus. Whatever arbitrary requisites the grimoire asks for you must do. If that means getting the blood from a bull slaughtered at midnight on the 3rd moon, then that's what you gotta do. Have fun, and before you start this skeptical experiment I suggest that you skeptically analyze a binding/banishing chapter or two. Here is the [url="http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/grimoire/goetia.pdf"]lesser key of Solomon[/url] for you to cherry pick from. If you end up in a bad way the only who can save you is YHShWH. Atleast that is how it works, but I'm sure you're smart enough to look past it and not call on him. Also for your family's sake don't do this in or near your house.[/QUOTE] tell me the worst possible thing i can do to annoy the spirits that will take me 5 minutes to do and won't be economically costly and brings near to immediate results
My personal belief on the matter is there is a fine line between the people who do believe in this and the people who do not. You either believe it or not. I too was once a skeptic about this but now I believe (from my own personal experience.) The universe is vast too so I'm not assuming anything yet.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39452385]tell me the worst possible thing i can do to annoy the spirits that will take me 5 minutes to do and won't be economically costly and brings near to immediate results[/QUOTE] Zilch, this isn't harry potter. You don't just get some magic words and shoot fire out your wand. That is just made up. [editline]2nd February 2013[/editline] If you want an easy time debunking things I suggest you stick to the would-be mystics and new agers, If you spend time on the actual occult with all the romance removed, It will be a different ride. [editline]2nd February 2013[/editline] One more thing: The 'quickest' way to fuck around I would image would include a quick blood ritual and then inviting a spirit into you. This will usually lead to what appears to be schizophrenia. It will build slowly with more and more outrageous thoughts until you finally identify them as 'seperate' from your own. But honestly I would stay away from blood Magick unless you approve of the likes of Aleister Crowley. I have stayed away from it, you should too, real or not.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39453479]Zilch, this isn't harry potter. You don't just get some magic words and shoot fire out your wand. That is just made up. [editline]2nd February 2013[/editline] If you want an easy time debunking things I suggest you stick to the would-be mystics and new agers, If you spend time on the actual occult with all the romance removed, It will be a different ride. [editline]2nd February 2013[/editline] One more thing: The 'quickest' way to fuck around I would image would include a quick blood ritual and then inviting a spirit into you. This will usually lead to what appears to be schizophrenia. It will build slowly with more and more outrageous thoughts until you finally identify them as 'seperate' from your own. But honestly I would stay away from blood Magick unless you approve of the likes of Aleister Crowley. I have stayed away from it, you should too, real or not.[/QUOTE] I decided to pick at a scab on my arm for this ritual. I drew a pentagram on a post-it-note and smeared blood in the middle, before saying "please bring all evil spirits here". The post it note is on my desk beside me, what results should I expect?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39453826]I decided to pick at a scab on my arm for this ritual. I drew a pentagram on a post-it-note and smeared blood in the middle, before saying "please bring all evil spirits here". The post it note is on my desk beside me, what results should I expect?[/QUOTE] Again good job entirely missing the point. Had you known anything about anything you would know that a pentagram is a ward against spirits and is usually used to protect your sorry ass. Seriously doing some half assed joke of a job will get you nothing more than maybe an infection. Go read up for yourself and do something by the book if you are going to do it at all. [editline]2nd February 2013[/editline] Here this should provide an adequate introduction to occult principles as well as many references and examples. This also by no means an end-all resource, just an introduction. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHCuSCUPXo0[/media] Please keep in mind basically everything he says is the OCCULT VIEWPOINT not an ultimate source of truth, so if you feel like he is going off far into wackyland, you can just flip off that well trained attention switch most people today have and fast forward a bit.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39453954]Again good job entirely missing the point. Had you known anything about anything you would know that a pentagram is a ward against spirits and is usually used to protect your sorry ass. Seriously doing some half assed joke of a job will get you nothing more than maybe an infection. Go read up for yourself and do something by the book if you are going to do it at all.[/QUOTE] Can you just give me some instructions so I can do it already? I'm not even sure if you subjected any "magick" (whats with the spelling) to scientific scrutiny.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39454015]Can you just give me some instructions so I can do it already? I'm not even sure if you subjected any "magick" (whats with the spelling) to scientific scrutiny.[/QUOTE] I think the idea is, you cant do it if you dont believe it first. Wich means it doesnt work.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;39454119]I think the idea is, you cant do it if you dont believe it first. Wich means it doesnt work.[/QUOTE] This is a convenient way to jump around the idea of something being falsifiable. Can I observe somebody doing it in a scientific experiment? Can I utilize double blind testing?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39454015]Can you just give me some instructions so I can do it already? I'm not even sure if you subjected any "magick" (whats with the spelling) to scientific scrutiny.[/QUOTE] I already have provided you with the means to do so. The lesser key of Solomon is the most concise instruction guide I could have given you. I am not going to post a full summoning ritual and its requisites on a forum. If you profane think that I can just teach you a spell like a damn trainer in skyrim, you have another thing coming. And no, you do not have to believe for it to work, you just have to have patience and more than 5 fucking minutes. Anything within a timeframe of 5 minutes consitutes nothing more than a new-agey hippy astral projection bullshit which is barely the surface of the surface and doesn't provide anything for you as far as empirical proof. [editline]2nd February 2013[/editline] I mean really if I am to make a comparison to skyrim then let me say this: How big is the text required to technically read to get ONE spell? A whole damn book is the answer, and real occultism is not far off.
Can you record yourself (or somebody else) doing the ritual and having things happen?
[QUOTE=Jookia;39454541]Can you record yourself (or somebody else) doing the ritual and having things happen?[/QUOTE] Neither I nor any person I know would be willing to go to the trouble of it all just for your own satisfaction. Frankly I don't like practicing Magic, even if it is Enochian, I much prefer prayer due to it's safety and humility. If you really want to see it you will likely go to the same or more amount of trouble finding someone than if you were to just procure the materials yourself and do some reading.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39455124]Neither I nor any person I know would be willing to go to the trouble of it all just for your own satisfaction.[/quote] Or: If I do all this bizarre superstitious nonsense and record it I might look like a fool here. [quote]Frankly I don't like practicing Magic, even if it is Enochian, I much prefer prayer due to it's safety and humility. If you really want to see it you will likely go to the same or more amount of trouble finding someone than if you were to just procure the materials yourself and do some reading.[/QUOTE] Magic and all that is the following: [img]https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZQaQ0woPRsW2Ra0oH0LeBR8DWZ6ZEt8KAWXgXddeoeO9AL65i[/img] We know very well how the universe works, and can even measure how much energy we will get if we destroy X amount of matter, and how much time or length will dilate at relativistic speeds.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39455570]Or: If I do all this bizarre superstitious nonsense and record it I might look like a fool here. Magic and all that is the following: [img]https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZQaQ0woPRsW2Ra0oH0LeBR8DWZ6ZEt8KAWXgXddeoeO9AL65i[/img] We know very well how the universe works, and can even measure how much energy we will get if we destroy X amount of matter, and how much time or length will dilate at relativistic speeds.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, don't do it then. I have nothing to prove to you.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39455699]Fair enough, don't do it then. I have nothing to prove to you.[/QUOTE] If you want anybody to think that your occult beliefs are to be taken seriously (i.e they have a tangible effect) then you need to provide some kind of evidence. Also the guy in the video is talking out his ass about quantum physics.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39455719]If you want anybody to think that your occult beliefs are to be taken seriously (i.e they have a tangible effect) then you need to provide some kind of evidence. Also the guy in the video knows fuck all about quantum physics.[/QUOTE] I thought the scientific method is giving a formula for action (experiment) that will produce a specific result. I have given you the formula, yet you refuse to even do it. What does it matter if I do it for you on video? For all you know it is adobe after effects. If you are too profane to even entertain the notion that there might be something out there then there is nothing I can ever say to you. If on the other hand you are truly objective as you seem to want yourself to come across as then I would suggest humbling yourself and opening a grimoire for longer than a half hour. I also suggest that you do not actually choose leviathan or Bael as your first try because honestly that is just foolish. Start with some lowly duke or something.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39455778]I thought the scientific method is giving a formula for action (experiment) that will produce a specific result. I have given you the formula, yet you refuse to even do it. What does it matter if I do it for you on video? For all you know it is adobe after effects. If you are too profane to even entertain the notion that there might be something out there then there is nothing I can ever say to you.[/quote] That is because the burden of proof is on you. If you want to prove it, then actually do it. What you have done is given me references and a video and expect me to trudge through the bullshit before spending a tedious amount of time designing an experiment to put it to the test and see what would happen. You need to do the following if you want to be taken seriously: 1. Test it yourself 2. Tell me the exact method you used, and the results of your findings. (this is where the bad scientists often get caught out, usually because during peer review somebody spots poor methodology) 3. I then carry out this method in the same way you did. 4. I compare the results to yours. 5. If we do the same method, we should find the same reuslts. [quote]If on the other hand you are truly objective as you seem to want yourself to come across as then I would suggest humbling yourself and opening a grimoire for longer than a half hour. I also suggest that you do not actually choose leviathan or Bael as your first try because honestly that is just foolish. Start with some lowly duke or something.[/QUOTE] I can't be arsed to. You have extraordinary claims, and I am going to have to get some extraordinary evidence. What effect will this magic have? How is it produced? What effect does it have on energy or matter? How would I go about writing an equation showing how it interacts with something?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39456014]That is because the burden of proof is on you. If you want to prove it, then actually do it. What you have done is given me references and a video and expect me to trudge through the bullshit before spending a tedious amount of time designing an experiment to put it to the test and see what would happen. You need to do the following if you want to be taken seriously: 1. Test it yourself 2. Tell me the exact method you used, and the results of your findings. (this is where the bad scientists often get caught out, usually because during peer review somebody spots poor methodology) 3. I then carry out this method in the same way you did. 4. I compare the results to yours. 5. If we do the same method, we should find the same reuslts. I can't be arsed to. You have extraordinary claims, and I am going to have to get some extraordinary evidence. What effect will this magic have? How is it produced? What effect does it have on energy or matter? How would I go about writing an equation showing how it interacts with something?[/QUOTE] The method is provided in the Lesser Key of Solomon, had you read it past the various names of the spirits then maybe you would have seen it. The effect it has is dependant on the effect you want it to have. If the visual experience of it can only be shown to you if you actually do it then what can I possibly do to help you? As far as it's effect and scientific relation to matter I can only stipulate that it works with probabilities. (Ie in some cases you need smoke in order for them to materialize by arranging that smoke). The video I provided should also be good enough to explain the main philisophic difference between binary secularism and occultism. I believe it is around the 3 hour mark. So in conclusion let me just restate a few things to get it through to you: -This isn't harry potter magic, there is no short set of magic words that will levitate things for you. -The whole thing is a dangerous matter, don't say I didn't warn you. -There are several pages of invocations and sigils as well as a list of materials needed provided in the key of solomon, consider it the experiment book. -Just as you cannot be arsed to procure skin of a calf or the some expensive annointing oil so that you can ask for knowlege from some demon, so too can I not be arsed to do so for I want nothing to do with them, and gain no benefit from it as in all likelyhood you would just say it is fake. -If Gallileo asked for proof for quarks in his time, no amount of quick anecdotes and logic would consitute the proof that would be provided by procuring the materials for a particle accelerator. (Luckily your task is much smaller than that, and yet you still bitch and complain)
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39456137]-If Gallileo asked for proof for quarks in his time, no amount of quick anecdotes and logic would consitute the proof that would be provided by procuring the materials for a particle accelerator. (Luckily your task is much smaller than that, and yet you still bitch and complain)[/QUOTE] If it's such a small a task why can't you do it? You won't do it, yet you expect us to go out and do it ourselves? It's your claim, your research project. If anything you've just said has any bearing on reality, then prove it. It wouldn't be very hard to do if what you have told us is true. Furthermore, if it is true, you will turn science on its head and probably become very rich.
[QUOTE=Falubii;39456222]If it's such a small a task why can't you do it? You won't do it, yet you expect us to go out and do it ourselves? It's your claim, your research project. If anything you've just said has any bearing on reality, then prove it. It wouldn't be very hard to do if what you have told us is true. Furthermore, if it is true, you will turn science on its head and probably become very rich.[/QUOTE] Because it is not a small task, it actually a considerable one. Also it is not my research project, I have already dabbled enough in occultism to prove to myself beyond a doubt. I do not have to prove that to you, and the only way I could is by getting you to do it yourself in the first place. Also if Aleister Crowley, John Dee and the likes hadn't been such prominent figures then maybe I would have had to concede at your last point.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39456137]The method is provided in the Lesser Key of Solomon, had you read it past the various names of the spirits then maybe you would have seen it. The effect it has is dependant on the effect you want it to have.[/quote] Erm, I need to be able to test it in an objective manner. All variables are to be controlled, and then I can fuck around with one variable to see what effect it has. [quote]If the visual experience of it can only be shown to you if you actually do it then what can I possibly do to help you?[/quote] Record it. [quote]As far as it's effect and scientific relation to matter I can only stipulate that it works with probabilities. (Ie in some cases you need smoke in order for them to materialize by arranging that smoke).[/quote] So can I change the quantity of smoke to see the effect? How many parts per million in the area must there be to bring forth the demon? [quote]The video I provided should also be good enough to explain the main philisophic difference between binary secularism and occultism. I believe it is around the 3 hour mark.[/quote] I watched more of it and the guy clearly knows fuck all about science or physics in it. He claims that all scientists are in universal consensus about string theory (they aren't). He claims that dreams mean something (its closer to random neurons firing in the brain and you interpreting this). Life force has no evidence behind it either. As I go on, this man in the video systematically shows me why he would get a F in Physics, F in Chemistry and a F in Biology. Claiming the internet is another dimension. Lmao it's a hardware network. He also is confused about what energy is. Energy is basically mass times the speed of light squared. [quote]So in conclusion let me just restate a few things to get it through to you: -This isn't harry potter magic, there is no short set of magic words that will levitate things for you.[/quote] Pity, I wanted to do a "dinner-table experiment" like when I proved that you cannot tell the difference between coke and pepsi to a family member. [quote]-The whole thing is a dangerous matter, don't say I didn't warn you.[/quote] Tell me the worst possible thing that can happen. Will I get a headache? [quote]-There are several pages of invocations and sigils as well as a list of materials needed provided in the key of solomon, consider it the experiment book.[/quote] Sounds handy dandy. [quote]-Just as you cannot be arsed to procure skin of a calf or the some expensive annointing oil so that you can ask for knowlege from some demon, so too can I not be arsed to do so for I want nothing to do with them, and gain no benefit from it as in all likelyhood you would just say it is fake.[/quote] Lol how do you know they exist? Do you have experience? [quote]-If Gallileo asked for proof for quarks in his time, no amount of quick anecdotes and logic would consitute the proof that would be provided by procuring the materials for a particle accelerator. (Luckily your task is much smaller than that, and yet you still bitch and complain)[/QUOTE] Well the problem is that all the intermediary steps needed to establish their existence had not yet been done. Magic on the other hand, has been disproven time and time again, simply because it cannot produce tangible results in laboratory settings. I feel sorry for the world you live in. You cling onto superstition instead of working out how the world REALLY works, and figuring out the natural laws (It's possible to work out a lot of physics by using some copper wire, magnets, some thought experiments and some math, and to work your way up from the idea that time and space is absolute. Like, it's possible to work out that time is relative once you realize there is a cosmic speed limit. [editline]3rd February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Zenreon117;39456273]Because it is not a small task, it actually a considerable one. Also it is not my research project, I have already dabbled enough in occultism to prove to myself beyond a doubt. I do not have to prove that to you, and the only way I could is by getting you to do it yourself in the first place.[/quote] What HAVE you done? [quote]Also if Aleister Crowley, John Dee and the likes hadn't been such prominent figures then maybe I would have had to concede at your last point.[/QUOTE] I know from my history books of the Tudors that John Dee was full of shit. It's also a complete fucking insult that Crowley comes above Maxwell in the top 100 Britons poll. That fact horribly disgusts me.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39456341]Erm, I need to be able to test it in an objective manner. All variables are to be controlled, and then I can fuck around with one variable to see what effect it has. [b] Yeah well make like Farraday and work your way up from the phenomenon.[/b] Record it. [b] I've already said that even if I do you will say it is a fake.[/b] So can I change the quantity of smoke to see the effect? How many parts per million in the area must there be to bring forth the demon?[b] I am not sure, how about you try it yourself?[/b] I watched more of it and the guy clearly knows fuck all about science or physics in it. He claims that all scientists are in universal consensus about string theory (they aren't). He claims that dreams mean something (its closer to random neurons firing in the brain and you interpreting this).[b] No-comment I never vouched for this guy's chemistry marks. Only his insight into Occultism[/b] Life force has no evidence behind it either.[b]Irrelevant if the procedure works[/b] As I go on, this man in the video systematically shows me why he would get a F in Physics, F in Chemistry and a F in Biology. [b] see above [/b] Claiming the internet is another dimension. Lmao it's a hardware network. [b] Actually he claimed that it was analogous to one and a good chunk of it with "digi-guy" is just a metaphor. So Im just going to leave it at you misunderstood him[/b] He also is confused about what energy is. Energy is basically mass times the speed of light squared. [b] I don't see where he said it wasn't [/b] Pity, I wanted to do a "dinner-table experiment" like when I proved that you cannot tell the difference between coke and pepsi to a family member. [b] Sounds like something I would do [/b] Tell me the worst possible thing that can happen. Will I get a headache? [b] No, you will go insane [/b] Sounds handy dandy. [b] Things are only as handy as the people willing to use them[/b] Lol how do you know they exist? Do you have experience? [b] Yes, and because of that I choose not to practice anymore.[/b] Well the problem is that all the intermediary steps needed to establish their existence had not yet been done. Magic on the other hand, has been disproven time and time again, simply because it cannot produce tangible results in laboratory settings. [b]If you showed him the display of the particle detector that would have been proof enough. Just as if you were to go through with an evocation, you would see enough for yourself.[/b] I feel sorry for the world you live in. You cling onto superstition instead of working out how the world REALLY works, and figuring out the natural laws (It's possible to work out a lot of physics by using some copper wire, magnets, some thought experiments and some math, and to work your way up from the idea that time and space is absolute. Like, it's possible to work out that time is relative once you realize there is a cosmic speed limit.[/QUOTE] Thanks for judging me. Ofcourse I do not believe in science, I am just a dumb hillbilly that doesnt know what a hydrogen is. I have no notion of the scientific world and think that magnets are witch-craft. [/blatent sarcasm]
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39456466]Yeah well make like Farraday and work your way up from the phenomenon.[/quote] You need to do some work too. [quote]I've already said that even if I do you will say it is a fake.[/QUOTE] This is because you fear being proven wrong. [quote]I am not sure, how about you try it yourself?[/quote] Because you have no desire for knowledge. When somebody has a desire for knowledge, that is what they do. [quote]No-comment I never vouched for this guy's chemistry marks. Only his insight into Occultism[/quote] If he knows fuck all about science he isn't able to scrutinize the workings of the universe properly. [quote]Life force has no evidence behind it either.Irrelevant if the procedure works[/quote] This is what the psychological school of behaviorism initially thought, before biological and cognitive approaches said "hang on there's something going on inside the brain too". [quote]Actually he claimed that it was analogous to one and a good chunk of it with "digi-guy" is just a metaphor. So Im just going to leave it at you misunderstood him [/quote] Either way his analogy makes no sense. [quote]He also is confused about what energy is. Energy is basically mass times the speed of light squared. I don't see where he said it wasn't [/quote] He claims its some thing that can go in or out of the body. Apparently, all of it is lost when you die. Do you get lighter when you die? [quote]No, you will go insane[/quote] Sounds fun. Luckily medical science will cure me. [quote]Yes, and because of that I choose not to practice anymore.[/quote] Please detail what happened. [quote]If you showed him the display of the particle detector that would have been proof enough. Just as if you were to go through with an evocation, you would see enough for yourself.[/quote] Well he would need to see the method used, plus the results before making conclusions.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39456273]I do not have to prove that to you, and the only way I could is by getting you to do it yourself in the first place. [/QUOTE] You don't know that. Sufficient proof can be acquired without me wasting my time. But if you won't do it, then don't expect me to believe it. [QUOTE=Zenreon117;39456466]Thanks for judging me. Ofcourse I do not believe in science, I am just a dumb hillbilly that doesnt know what a hydrogen is. I have no notion of the scientific world and think that magnets are witch-craft. [/blatent sarcasm][/QUOTE] Well clearly you have no respect for the scientific method.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39456628]You need to do some work too.[/quote] I do not want to, as I am not curious enough about the details, nor am I willing to do the constant experimenting to establish them. [quote]This is because you fear being proven wrong.[/quote] I'd love for you to prove me wrong, but unfortunately I honestly don't think you can. [quote]Because you have no desire for knowledge. When somebody has a desire for knowledge, that is what they do.[/quote] I have a desire for knowlege past this, I constantly dabble in metaphysical philosophy and argumentation. I wanted to be a scientist at one point, but realized that being a scientist means using up your whole life for the sake of the accuracy of one decimal point in some constant (or something equivocal). Besides there are plenty of eager would-be scientists lining up to do the menial work of dissecting every variable of various phenomenon, why should this be any different? [quote]If he knows fuck all about science he isn't able to scrutinize the workings of the universe properly. [/quote] Perhaps not, but he is able to provide a scholarly account of Occult writings and summarize them. Mechanics do not need to know organic chemistry to tell you how to build a car. [quote]This is what the psychological school of behaviorism initially thought, before biological and cognitive approaches said "hang on there's something going on inside the brain too".[/quote] I thought we were talking about the existence of occult phenomenon, not whether neurological determinism is true. [quote]Either way his analogy makes no sense.[/quote] It does, but you seem to have missed it entirely, give it another watch if you are at all committed to understanding literature. [quote]He claims its some thing that can go in or out of the body. Apparently, all of it is lost when you die. Do you get lighter when you die?[/quote] Debatable and unresolved as far as I know. [url]http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/568373.html[/url] [quote]Sounds fun. Luckily medical science will cure me.[/quote] Schizophrenia pills electric boogaloo [quote]Please detail what happened.[/quote] I evoked what I thought was Michael, but turned out to be something else because after I asked it to reveal itself in the name of Adonai it turned out to be some lesser demon. From there things went awry and I screwed up on the banishing portion of the ritual. I heard a dark voice for the next couple of months that would scream in my ear horrible deplorable thoughts about logically maintaining humanity under half a billion and genocide and something about the ascended masters. All in all it was horrible. Thats enough, I don't want to keep explaining myself to you. If you want proof and go through with it then God help you.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39456926] I have a desire for knowlege past this, I constantly dabble in metaphysical philosophy and argumentation. I wanted to be a scientist at one point, but realized that being a scientist means using up your whole life for the sake of the accuracy of one decimal point in some constant (or something equivocal). Besides there are plenty of eager would-be scientists lining up to do the menial work of dissecting every variable of various phenomenon, why should this be any different?[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's definitely not what science is. [QUOTE=Zenreon117;39456926] I evoked what I thought was Michael, but turned out to be something else because after I asked it to reveal itself in the name of Adonai it turned out to be some lesser demon. From there things went awry and I screwed up on the banishing portion of the ritual. I heard a dark voice for the next couple of months that would scream in my ear horrible deplorable thoughts about logically maintaining humanity under half a billion and genocide and something about the ascended masters. All in all it was horrible. Thats enough, I don't want to keep explaining myself to you. If you want proof and go through with it then God help you.[/QUOTE] Please just tell us you're [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law]joking[/url]. Please.
[QUOTE=Falubii;39457014]Yeah, that's definitely not what science is.[/quote] True: That is what philosophy is. Good job catching on to that whole "I am not a scientist nor do I want to be one" message in what I said. [Quote]Please just tell us you're [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law]joking[/url]. Please.[/QUOTE] No I am not, and I am actually going to leave this conversation because you guys seem to have missed the whole reason I am explaining anything to you guys. -I do not care for proving my own claims to you, I came here to say that there is a phenomenon that makes believers out of skeptics, it is occultism. It is an action whereby you yourself can do, and not me just claiming that I saw a ghost. I think you have your panties in a bunch because I started out with the method and then followed up eventually with my own anecdote of my bad experience with it. I do not care if you believe me, if you care enough to prove it to yourself then this is how [b]you[/b] can. But if you do not care enough to prove it to yourself then I still do not care, just ignore everything I said. I do not want to do it for your sake because I literally do not want to do it, because I have nothing to gain and everything to lose. [editline]2nd February 2013[/editline] I think I finally understand why this stuff was kept from the profane throughout history. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating - Already challenged multiple times, provided no evidence" - Megafan))[/highlight]
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