• Ghosts and the paranormal
    608 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39457108]True: That is what philosophy is. Good job catching on to that whole "I am not a scientist nor do I want to be one" message in what I said.[/quote] [QUOTE=Zenreon117;39456926]I wanted to be a scientist at one point, but realized that being a scientist means using up your whole life for the sake of the accuracy of one decimal point in some constant (or something equivocal).[/QUOTE] Yeah, I was replying to that. That is probably the most awful description of science I've ever heard. [QUOTE=Zenreon117;39457108]No I am not, and I am actually going to leave this conversation because you guys seem to have missed the whole reason I am explaining anything to you guys. -I do not care for proving my own claims to you, I came here to say that there is a phenomenon that makes believers out of skeptics, it is occultism. It is an action whereby you yourself can do, and not me just claiming that I saw a ghost. I think you have your panties in a bunch because I started out with the method and then followed up eventually with my own anecdote of my bad experience with it. I do not care if you believe me, if you care enough to prove it to yourself then this is how [b]you[/b] can. But if you do not care enough to prove it to yourself then I still do not care, just ignore everything I said. I do not want to do it for your sake because I literally do not want to do it, because I have nothing to gain and everything to lose. [editline]2nd February 2013[/editline] I think I finally understand why this stuff was kept from the profane throughout history.[/QUOTE] You are right, I am not ready to understand :tinfoil:
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39457108] No I am not, and I am actually going to leave this conversation because you guys seem to have missed the whole reason I am explaining anything to you guys. -I do not care for proving my own claims to you, I came here to say that there is a phenomenon that makes believers out of skeptics, it is occultism. It is an action whereby you yourself can do, and not me just claiming that I saw a ghost. I think you have your panties in a bunch because I started out with the method and then followed up eventually with my own anecdote of my bad experience with it. I do not care if you believe me, if you care enough to prove it to yourself then this is how [b]you[/b] can. But if you do not care enough to prove it to yourself then I still do not care, just ignore everything I said. I do not want to do it for your sake because I literally do not want to do it, because I have nothing to gain and everything to lose.[/QUOTE] Well I'm afraid this is the debate section, not the 'take-it-or-leave-it' section.
Magic is bullshit. But then again chemistry/biology IS fucking magic.
Are ghosts real? Always an interesting debate. Here's my two cents: I don't believe in ghosts, where the human spirit appears in the physical world or inhabits a locations. I do, however, believe in demons. In many religions, not just Christianity, demons are said to impersonate loved ones or people we knew in order to lead them into evil and deadly situations.
[QUOTE=normandy;39461870]Are ghosts real? Always an interesting debate. Here's my two cents: I don't believe in ghosts, where the human spirit appears in the physical world or inhabits a locations. [I][B]I do, however, believe in demons.[/B][/I] In many religions, not just Christianity, demons are said to impersonate loved ones or people we knew in order to lead them into evil and deadly situations.[/QUOTE] Why?
Because Bible. In all seriousness though, I do believe in demons because of their prior involvement in events stated in the Bible. And the idea that Satan still exists, still wants to overthrow God and rule the world, put as simply as possible.
This had to have been gone over a hundred times by now but here's my two cents. Firstly I desperately want the paranormal scene to exist. Maybe not to kill me but thinking that's bullshit only to find out it exists would be awesome. That and magic. People call it "unexplained" and talk about how "perhaps science can't explain it yet." Why is it that we can't prove it or even locate it with science when ghosts show up to haunt or just walk around dark hallways. What are they hiding for? Why are they hiding? What is their purpose? Why do they show up for only a handful of people? How come if they exist and can think and fuck with people they don't TALK to us or give us something so that we can study them and perhaps help them? If ghosts exists does that mean another world does? Perhaps a heaven or a hell? Why is it that they can choose to show up for human eyes and not for a god damn scientific lens? Ghost sightings are so vague and rare so is it safe to assume that only a few of the deceased are chosen to return? What if this is all the fucking matrix and the few ghosts we see are trying to let us know that none of this is real. Awesome, but fucking unlikely. I guess you can mark it as "unexplained/explainable" but really the questions that come with such a revelation like ghosts and the paranormal in general existing, most of which make it even farther fetched for me.
[QUOTE=normandy;39464542]Because Bible. In all seriousness though, I do believe in demons because of their prior involvement in events stated in the Bible. And the idea that Satan still exists, still wants to overthrow God and rule the world, put as simply as possible.[/QUOTE] Hooray! We've got a new Zenreon! What prior events were demons involved in? And do you have any less questionable sources than the bible? [QUOTE=Sobotnik;39456341]It's also a complete fucking insult that Crowley comes above Maxwell in the top 100 Britons poll. That fact horribly disgusts me.[/QUOTE] I'm sure it was purely on the strength of the Ozzy Osborne song.
[QUOTE=normandy;39464542]Because Bible. In all seriousness though, I do believe in demons because of their prior involvement in events stated in the Bible. And the idea that Satan still exists, still wants to overthrow God and rule the world, put as simply as possible.[/QUOTE] Well, I'm afraid [I]the Bible[/I] is not at all a reliable resource for factual matters. Could you, perhaps, cite a legitimate source?
The bible states Jesus was a zombie born of a virgin, pretty legit sounding stuff.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ju9mn3g.jpg[/IMG] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]
You might want to snip that, it's not debating.
Oh boy, were relying on the bible for our worldviews now? What is this, the dark ages?
[QUOTE=Falubii;39468188]The bible states Jesus was a zombie born of a virgin, pretty legit sounding stuff.[/QUOTE] Actually, I am of the opinion that Jesus was a [I]lich[/I], not a zombie. Of course, both creatures are entirely fictitious, so I wouldn't worry all too much about it. It is common for a subject of debate to presuppose that both parties are equal in ability to win the argument; it seems to me, however, that those in favor of the supernatural have, shockingly, never produced proof. I shall always take into consideration [I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law"]Poe's_law[/URL][/I].
I am kind of in the middle on this discussion. I personally am leaning to the side that does not believe in such things, however, I have seen some strange occurrences. I have not seen enough to change my belies though. I do go to church, and I do believe in God. I don't mean to be a religious activist, but it says in the bible that God simply does not create ghosts and demons. I am aware that the devil, who I also believe in, does make ghosts and demons. So like I said in the beginning of this post, I am in the middle on this one.
I hope UFOs are a part of this discussion, because I have a tale to tell. Last summer, I was visiting my cousin and her husband in New Mexico, and they lived in a somewhat remote area. There were barely any lights coming from towns, so the stars were completely visible. On the second night of my stay, I was still awake. I was reading a book when I looked out the window to see a red light dancing about. It danced for about 10 seconds, then suddenly flew away and vanished at an amazing speed. I immediately went to the kitchen to find my cousin's husband, Victor, to be having a midnight snack. I told him that I just saw a red light in the sky that swirled around then vanished. He told me that it happens all the time, and it's pretty much a normal part of their lives. He told me it usually happens twice, so we go outside to see if it happens again. As soon as we go out the door, there's this sound we hear that kind of sounded like the BRAAWWWMM sound from Inception. More so, it's something that was felt, rather than heard, as if you hear it only in your mind. It's really hard to explain, but we both "heard" it. Then, all of the sudden, a beam of light struck across all the way across the sky. Literally, if you blinked, you would have missed it. Luckily, I didn't, and all Victor said "That was new." I had no idea what to think or say. Apparently, the red light was normal. It appeared about once a week, and has happened ever since they moved there, which was about 4 or 5 years ago. The sound and the beam of light, however, was completely new and Victor had never experienced it before. A disclaimer, also: I don't do drugs, nor does Victor or my cousin. We weren't sleep deprived, either, nor do we have a history of hallucinations. I still have no clue what happened. All I can say is that it scared the shit out of me.
[QUOTE=Boaraes;39536473]Small blog post.[/QUOTE] Your entire story feels to be fabricated--an unverifiable anecdote that has been conceived as a means of falsehood. You know, anecdotes are hardly subject to sensible debate, rendering it purposeless in this thread. It is also rather insulting that you consider us to be so dim that we might believe the circumstances of such an event would not be in permission of records beyond your own retelling.
[QUOTE=Squerl101;39506837]I am kind of in the middle on this discussion. I personally am leaning to the side that does not believe in such things, however, I have seen some strange occurrences. I have not seen enough to change my belies though. I do go to church, and I do believe in God. I don't mean to be a religious activist, but it says in the bible that God simply does not create ghosts and demons. I am aware that the devil, who I also believe in, does make ghosts and demons. So like I said in the beginning of this post, I am in the middle on this one.[/QUOTE] Sorry, but no skeptic worth his salt will be able to see past the fact that you take such a huge unfalsefyable hypothesis as "gods and devils" at face value. From my viewpoint you just said, "i have no intrest in the evidence, or rational inquiry, i just wanted to talk about 'this'" Wich has no practical use to anyone.
I feel sorry for people who go to "Spiritualists" for help and stuff. My girlfriend came to me saying her mother sent her to a "Spiritualist" to "read her future". I know it is bullshit but I played along. It just so happens that this "Spiritualist" told her that she would be very successful in life if she does as she is told and does her collage work. I think it's sad she has no idea what had been done because she is all tied up in this rubbish, I would never challenge her belief if it makes her happy though.
[QUOTE=Elfy;39554608]I feel sorry for people who go to "Spiritualists" for help and stuff. My girlfriend came to me saying her mother sent her to a "Spiritualist" to "read her future". I know it is bullshit but I played along. It just so happens that this "Spiritualist" told her that she would be very successful in life if she does as she is told and does her collage work. I think it's sad she has no idea what had been done because she is all tied up in this rubbish, I would never challenge her belief if it makes her happy though.[/QUOTE] Haha that's pretty funny, the spiritualist told her a pretty common advice. But a good advice nevertheless, that should better the odds of a successful life at least.
[QUOTE=Agent_Control;39546642]Your entire story feels to be fabricated--an unverifiable anecdote that has been conceived as a means of falsehood. You know, anecdotes are hardly subject to sensible debate, rendering it purposeless in this thread. It is also rather insulting that you consider us to be so dim that we might believe the circumstances of such an event would not be in permission of records beyond your own retelling.[/QUOTE] Well, sorry you feel that way. I was merely sharing a personal story of mine. You don't have to believe me, but this did happen. Also, it seems your post is purposeless as well. You did not add a single ounce of anything related to the topic. Your words carry no weight. Onto the topic at hand, I never really believed in anything like ghosts. They're impossible to exist. People claim to be cold when ghosts are near, even though energy is what composes them. I thought it was common knowledge that energy = heat. Unfortunately my family is obsessed with watching Ghost Hunters and they always 'ooh' and 'aah' at it. Whenever I call them out on it they get pissy. Oh well.
[QUOTE=Boaraes;39582091]Well, sorry you feel that way. I was merely sharing a personal story of mine. You don't have to believe me, but this did happen. Also, it seems your post is purposeless as well. You did not add a single ounce of anything related to the topic. Your words carry no weight. Onto the topic at hand, I never really believed in anything like ghosts. They're impossible to exist. People claim to be cold when ghosts are near, even though energy is what composes them. I thought it was common knowledge that energy = heat. Unfortunately my family is obsessed with watching Ghost Hunters and they always 'ooh' and 'aah' at it. Whenever I call them out on it they get pissy. Oh well.[/QUOTE] He was perfectly right to call your story out as unfalsefyable, and therefore untestable. He's merely skeptical, as he should be. You dont get to dump a funny story of things you may or may not have seen, and then expect it all to be validated by just going, "true story." If you could provide pictures, videoclips, even the testemony of other people who were there, we would have more to work with, but what we have is an incredibly vague story about strange lights in the sky.
people have been witnessing strange lights that move and suddenly just speed away, at very great distances in the sky. one of my friend has also witnessed it around here (with several others) but they didn't think nothing of it after an hour or so. (it was a party-weekend, not from U.S. either mind u) it seems unexplainable at hand but there's probably something simple behind it. it's a very known phenomenon or sight actually (okay not very known), but still personally I'm not sure what it is, but I know what they are talking about.
This debate is very very very interesting to me. It has caused a shit ton of debate between me and my favorite teacher who I regard as an extremely intelligent person and has influenced my teen years a lot. Usually he stands to be me as a figure of logic and reasoning, he does have a very spiritual side to him and I don't criticize him for it. However, when he mentions all the things he has seen and experienced in his old house in terms of the paranormal I tend to question a lot of it. I am usually cold and harsh when it comes to these things that come off as ridiculous, I used to kind of believe in ghosts when I was a kid because of those shows but after an episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit I stand heavily on the skeptical side. I question what I truly think about the subject a lot though. For my teacher who I regard as a figure of intelligence and logic recites his encounters with the paranormal often make me really unbalanced on where I usually stand. I know for a fact he wouldn't lie about these stories, and it's not just him who have experienced these things in the house, really crazy shit has gone on in there apparently and even workers and movers experienced things. And these are not just "oh just lights or shadow figures it can be explained given more perceptive circumstances" stuff. He talks about shit floating, disappearing , entire furniture rearranging itself, glasses being thrown, fucking people walking around the house in full day light and completely solid and they have no idea who they are. So I can stand on my high horse completely denying any sort of thing to do with "ghosts" actually happening and call my teacher fuckin nuts. But I can't just do that. I am starting to believe people are truly experiencing these events, I can't say if they are ghosts are not, but I really want to see more real scientific work into seeing what the fuck is happening. Completely unbiased, not sensationalist, scientific research. We to find out what is really happening and if these events are truly undebunkable. And if we truly do find something unexplainable by current scientific knowledge it would be groundbreaking and very enticing to further study into it. But so far I just see stubborn scientists scoffing at the subject, and retarded people making shit up and further sensationalizing it through television and spiritual bullshit, thus making it much more unbelievable.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';40166782]And if we truly do find something unexplainable by current scientific knowledge it would be groundbreaking and very enticing to further study into it. But so far I just see stubborn scientists scoffing at the subject, and retarded people making shit up and further sensationalizing it through television and spiritual bullshit, thus making it much more unbelievable.[/QUOTE] The thing is, with Occams razor, we pretty much eliminate ghosts entirely. Faulty equipment, wishful thinking, and flaws of human psychology are largely to account for this.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40664004]The thing is, with Occams razor, we pretty much eliminate ghosts entirely. Faulty equipment, wishful thinking, and flaws of human psychology are largely to account for this.[/QUOTE] It used to be partially excusable hundreds of years ago when the technology wasn't up to explaining everyday phenomena. Now, however, there is little we cannot explain and what we do lack an understanding of we no longer have to attribute to flying invisible dead people.
[QUOTE=Truckasaurus1;40676110]It used to be partially excusable hundreds of years ago when the technology wasn't up to explaining everyday phenomena. Now, however, there is little we cannot explain and what we do lack an understanding of we no longer have to attribute to flying invisible dead people.[/QUOTE] Instead, we attribute it to ET's, and secretive governments.
I didn't have any kind of experiences involving anything supernatural, if I do get any, I'm just going to assume that something is wrong with my brain, and that I'm probably hallucinating. All current evidence points out to the fact that the universe is strictly materialistic. So as long as I don't have any kind of evidence, I would have to put ghosts and all supernatural phenomena, with the same probability of the existence God, which is very very unlikely.
I believe that paranormal activities occur on our plane of reality, yes. I've found no reason to assume ghosts are malevolent. I've stated once before, in another thread, that ghosts repeatedly open and close doors at my place, and have done so for the last two years. I'm also a bit perplexed by the fact that not all stories about "ghosts" match up. I've never had any harmful experiences with spectres. The worst I've ever gotten was shivers up my spine, to be truthful. [QUOTE=PeejsterM;40633597]Ghosts open and close my doors at any time of day.[/QUOTE] The wind cannot close doors inside of a home. The doors are all wooden, too, so there is no mechanism that moves them into place. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;40695052]Actually it can. [/QUOTE] ... well, yes, it can, but it's not [i]windy[/i] over here.
[QUOTE=PeejsterM;40695021]I believe that paranormal activities occur on our plane of reality, yes. I've found no reason to assume ghosts are malevolent. I've stated once before, in another thread, that ghosts repeatedly open and close doors at my place, and have done so for the last two years. I'm also a bit perplexed by the fact that not all stories about "ghosts" match up. I've never had any harmful experiences with spectres. The worst I've ever gotten was shivers up my spine, to be truthful. The wind cannot close doors inside of a home. The doors are all wooden, too, so there is no mechanism that moves them into place.[/QUOTE] Actually it can. One of the things I enjoyed doing in my house was to open/close doors and windows around my house in order to control air currents passing through it, and therefore control more doors and windows down in the rest of the house. Mines in the industrial revolution used this concept to aid with the movement of fresh and stale air (and poison gases) around tunnels. The boys hired to open and shut the wooden doors were meant to ensure the doors kept closed until somebody needed through, so as to control the flow of air through the mining network.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.