• Ghosts and the paranormal
    608 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HkSniper;35371234]Oh, it does? So you can not use evidence to prove against something, only for something? Huh. By the way. I am not for or against ghosts. I am inconclusive. But I just find it humorous when people are smug and so sure of themselves against something that is purely unknown. ;)[/QUOTE] If that something doesn't even have any backing proof in the first place, then no evidence disproving it needs to be provided. I could easily claim that an invisible giant is looking down on us [i]right now[/i]. Do I have any proof to back it up? No. Can you proove that said Giant [i]does not[/i] exist? No! Ergo, the giant could exist, but the fact that there is no evidence supporting such a claim means that we must revert to the default position, which is that it does not exist.
[QUOTE=HkSniper;35371234]Oh, it does? So you can not use evidence to prove against something, only for something? Huh. By the way. I am not for or against ghosts. I am inconclusive. But I just find it humorous when people are smug and so sure of themselves against something that is purely unknown. ;)[/QUOTE] By all accounts you seem like the smug one, despite obviously not understanding his post. Yes, the person who claims that ghosts exist will have to provide the evidence because we shouldn't just assume they do. Exactly like how I would have to provide evidence of I told you that I had a giraffe with wings in my garden.
I could say that Mr Bean grows into a giant 20 metres tall and fornicates in the middle of Trafalgar sq every Tuesday at 4pm. Do I have any evidence? Hell no. Do people have evidence proving this doesn't happen? Yes. It hasn't been completely disproven (As stupid as it sounds), yet it could still happen. This is the case with ghosts. There is no conclusive evidence showing they exist, and the evidence stacked up against them is huge. Thing put down to ghosts are being explained daily by scientists. There are no such things as ghosts.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35372954]I could say that Mr Bean grows into a giant 20 metres tall and fornicates in the middle of Trafalgar sq every Tuesday at 4pm. Do I have any evidence? Hell no. Do people have evidence proving this doesn't happen? Yes. It hasn't been completely disproven (As stupid as it sounds), yet it could still happen. This is the case with ghosts. There is no conclusive evidence showing they exist, and the evidence stacked up against them is huge. Thing put down to ghosts are being explained daily by scientists. There are no such things as ghosts.[/QUOTE] Can you prove to me that ghosts aren't just people or something from a 5th dimension? No? Okay. Then don't claim things you cant back up with evidence.
[QUOTE=Robbi;35378054]Can you prove to me that ghosts aren't just people or something from the 5th dimension? No? Okay. Then don't claim things you cant back up with evidence.[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? The 5th dimension? Do you even know what that is? "People or something" yeah, ok, great argument, except you have no idea what you're talking about. Dimensions aren't magical places you can physically go to or exist in the way your brain would rationalize it as. You exist within the higher dimension, but things from that dimension do not systematically exist in our perceptive dimension (yet or anymore, for example, if you talk about the 4th dimension). The 4th dimension isn't hard enough for most of us to understand, but the 5th dimension is already too complex and abstract for us to fully understand, but it is basically a link between time and space that encompasses any possibility of existence you could partake into one single entity, but I doubt that's what you were talking about and were actually just throwing random bullshit around in hopes of proving some halfassed point. If you want to hold a belief towards something then you need evidence to back your belief up, otherwise its just blind faith. If you don't believe in something then you lack that belief. If you chose to believe against ghosts than you do so using our current knowledge within certain scientific fields and your own rationalization, logic, and understanding of probability, which currently points towards ghosts not existing.
[QUOTE=Sickle;35364440]They cannot exist. When you die, you cease to be. You decompose and that is it. Anyone have conclusive evidence against this?[/QUOTE] It's impossible to prove it either way - you can't prove you come back as a ghost and you can't prove you just decompose and nothing else.
[QUOTE=Blazyd;35379502]It's impossible to prove it either way - you can't prove you come back as a ghost and you can't prove you just decompose and nothing else.[/QUOTE] You can also not disprove that when you die 12 invisible clowns pop out of your eyeballs and dance a jig in the air.
[QUOTE=Blazyd;35379502]It's impossible to prove it either way - you can't prove you come back as a ghost and you can't prove you just decompose and nothing else.[/QUOTE] And even if you did have some kind of photo or video evidence of a 'ghost', you'd have a hard time proving it was anything other than what it directly appeared to be.
People who haven't taken vector calculus most likely don't even conceptualize extra dimensions properly.
[QUOTE=Blazyd;35379502]It's impossible to prove it either way - you can't prove you come back as a ghost and you can't prove you just decompose and nothing else.[/QUOTE] There is no reason to assume anything else happens. We know that neural signals cannot work without the brain, we know that the brain is a part of the body, and we know the body decomposes. Assuming that our mind is released from our body is just as rational as assuming the clown scenario as mentioned above.
[QUOTE=Robbi;35378054]Can you prove to me that ghosts aren't just people or something from a 5th dimension? No? Okay. Then don't claim things you cant back up with evidence.[/QUOTE] ITT: people who don't understand how to debate [highlight](User was banned for this post ("ITT" - Orkel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Chrille;35383385]There is no reason to assume anything else happens. We know that neural signals cannot work without the brain, we know that the brain is a part of the body, and we know the body decomposes. Assuming that our mind is released from our body is just as rational as assuming the clown scenario as mentioned above.[/QUOTE] Why are people nowadays so stubborn towards the possiblity that theres more than just what we know now? Only a few hundred years ago we thought the earth was flat, anyone who disagreed was attacked, not just verbally. Why can't any of you even consider the possibility thats theres more to the universe then we know? the ghost phenomenon Is very interesting, I don't think we should just write off as "people are suggestable and easily fooled".
[QUOTE=lotusking;35385274]Why are people nowadays so stubborn towards the possiblity that theres more than just what we know now? Only a few hundred years ago we thought the earth was flat, anyone who disagreed was attacked, not just verbally. Why can't any of you even consider the possibility thats theres more to the universe then we know? Whatever Is happening with ghosts Is very interesting, I don't think we should just write off as "people are suggestable and easily fooled".[/QUOTE] People thought the Earth was flat, then we discovered that it wasn't. The same thing hasn't happened with ghosts and other than anecdotes there is nothing to back up the idea that ghosts exist.
[QUOTE=lotusking;35385274]Why are people nowadays so stubborn towards the possiblity that theres more than just what we know now? Only a few hundred years ago we thought the earth was flat, anyone who disagreed was attacked, not just verbally. Why can't any of you even consider the possibility thats theres more to the universe then we know? the ghost phenomenon Is very interesting, I don't think we should just write off as "people are suggestable and easily fooled".[/QUOTE] Let's turn this around. For millenia people have believed that your mind was a spirit connected to your body, and when you died it was separated. Some believed these spirits still roamed the bodily world as ghosts. When it was found out that our minds were merely neural signals constantly generated by a brain evolved over millions of years to behave in certain ways, people were stubborn towards the possibility that there was nothing more to life than this. Only a few hundred years ago, people who disagreed with the traditional belief were either stoned, burned, drowned or beaten to death. Saying that people who do not believe in ghosts deny that there is more to the universe than we know is either ignorant or insulting. We barely know anything. The difference is that I acknowledge that and choose not to believe in made up things, leaving it to scientists (the people who do it for a living) to determine what is real and what is not, instead of claiming that I actually know how the universe works, as people who are religious or superstitious do.
[QUOTE=HkSniper;35366407]Do you have any conclusive evidence against ghosts? Same can be said either way around when it comes to the unknown. The fact is you do not know...yet.[/QUOTE] The burden of proof lies with those who make the claim that they exist.
[QUOTE=Lilyo;35378357]What are you talking about? The 5th dimension? Do you even know what that is? "People or something" yeah, ok, great argument, except you have no idea what you're talking about. Dimensions aren't magical places you can physically go to or exist in the way your brain would rationalize it as. You exist within the higher dimension, but things from that dimension do not systematically exist in our perceptive dimension (yet or anymore, for example, if you talk about the 4th dimension). The 4th dimension isn't hard enough for most of us to understand, but the 5th dimension is already too complex and abstract for us to fully understand, but it is basically a link between time and space that encompasses any possibility of existence you could partake into one single entity, but I doubt that's what you were talking about and were actually just throwing random bullshit around in hopes of proving some halfassed point. If you want to hold a belief towards something then you need evidence to back your belief up, otherwise its just blind faith. If you don't believe in something then you lack that belief. If you chose to believe against ghosts than you do so using our current knowledge within certain scientific fields and your own rationalization, logic, and understanding of probability, which currently points towards ghosts not existing.[/QUOTE] Oh man, you're cute. I'm not saying that this is a possibility, I am just saying that he cant prove it isn't true, and I do not believe in ghosts, it is just idiotic that some people go around claiming that they 100% do not exist. [QUOTE=halflife_123;35385273]ITT: people who don't understand how to debate[/QUOTE] I was in no way being serious, I was just pointing out that I could do the exact same with his arguament and just spout random bullshit.
who knows? [editline]2nd April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=lotusking;35385274]Why are people nowadays so stubborn towards the possiblity that theres more than just what we know now? Only a few hundred years ago we thought the earth was flat, anyone who disagreed was attacked, not just verbally. Why can't any of you even consider the possibility thats theres more to the universe then we know? the ghost phenomenon Is very interesting, I don't think we should just write off as "people are suggestable and easily fooled".[/QUOTE] this, there could quite possibly be another plain, in which the earth is the same, but those who have died already exist in that plain. seeing ghosts s just a glimpse of this plain
I personally believed that ghosts and the like exist, at least to some degree. Sure, there is no solid proof, but how do you explain away the sheer volume of visual, audio, etc etc evidence that has come up over the years? Some can be explained, some can't. To say that the millions of claims are all the result of crazy or misinformed people is stupid in itself.
Jesus dick are you thick. The evidence "proving" ghosts has been shown to be one or the following of the combinations: 1. Easily explainable through rational logic. 2. Explainable by use of the scientific method. 3. Bullshit. It astounds me how many on Facepunch do not believe in a god, but believe in ghosts. The same backwards and broken logic that is used by fundies is used by other people to prove ghosts or cryptids.
theres no reason to make these topics anymore because its just a bunch of people saying "WELL IT DOESNT EXIST BECAUSE ITS BULLSHIT"
[QUOTE=lotusking;35385274]Why are people nowadays so stubborn towards the possiblity that theres more than just what we know now? Only a few hundred years ago we thought the earth was flat, anyone who disagreed was attacked, not just verbally. Why can't any of you even consider the possibility thats theres more to the universe then we know? the ghost phenomenon Is very interesting, I don't think we should just write off as "people are suggestable and easily fooled".[/QUOTE] The egyptians knew world wasn't flat. Also this spirit shit and other stuff just doesn't apply to the laws of physics. Why should we consider the possibility when it's impossible? Also if ghosts and spirits are so easy to hunt and shit, we would've already discovered the shit behind it.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35331139]There are many things that are bullshit when it comes to dealing with the paranormal and ghosts (like Ouigi boards for example and SOME "psychics") but at the same time [B]there are some things that science just cannot explain. I think we can all accept that there just isn't an explanation for every case.[/B] [B]I'll go so far as even say that it's ignorant to assume that science has the answer for everything regarding the paranormal and "ghosts". What if it's just a matter that our current scientific understanding is actually too young to properly understand the paranormal?[/B] What's stopping us from one day finding a proper name to "ghosts" and defining what it may actually be? Personally, I'm on the fence. On one hand it's interesting to hear stories about incidents involve the paranormal and chilling but at the same time it also adds skepticism.[/QUOTE] Thank God someone else has a little common sense. Pretty much what this guy says.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35331139]There are many things that are bullshit when it comes to dealing with the paranormal and ghosts (like Ouigi boards for example and SOME "psychics") but at the same time there are some things that science just cannot explain. I think we can all accept that there just isn't an explanation for every case. I'll go so far as even say that it's ignorant to assume that science has the answer for everything regarding the paranormal and "ghosts". What if it's just a matter that our current scientific understanding is actually too young to properly understand the paranormal? What's stopping us from one day finding a proper name to "ghosts" and defining what it may actually be? Personally, I'm on the fence. On one hand it's interesting to hear stories about incidents involve the paranormal and chilling but at the same time it also adds skepticism.[/QUOTE] Well this post just went full retard. Of course science can't explain everything. If science could explain everything, we wouldn't even need science. Science will eventually explain everything, but after explaining something, you get tons of new things to explain, and it continues. You can say there's no explanation for something, but there [B]WILL[/B] be. If we don't know something now, we don't just explain it with paranormal shit, we don't do that shit anymore. We used to, but come on.
"Science cannot explain anything" is not a valid argument for Ghosts, the paranormal or any of that other [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion]bullshit[/url] (dorp). As of now, Science cannot explain everything, but that doesn't mean it never will (although this is very unlikely). This does not mean, that for the meantime you can fill in the blanks with whatever suits your fancy. I could suggest that Unicorns exist, and when asked for evidence of said claim, just say, "Well, you cannot prove that they don't exist." If you claim that something exists, you need to back it up with solid evidence, otherwise it's likely that you're full of shit.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35396154]Jesus dick are you thick. The evidence "proving" ghosts has been shown to be one or the following of the combinations: 1. Easily explainable through rational logic. 2. Explainable by use of the scientific method. 3. Bullshit. It astounds me how many on Facepunch do not believe in a god, but believe in ghosts. The same backwards and broken logic that is used by fundies is used by other people to prove ghosts or cryptids.[/QUOTE] So each and every sighting can be explained that way? Every single one? If that were the case, there would be no debate on the matter. To say that its all bullshit in its vastness is being "thick". To say that millions of people have experienced nothing is just refusing to accept any other possibility. That is bad science.
[QUOTE=DTkach;35400386]So each and every sighting can be explained that way? Every single one? If that were the case, there would be no debate on the matter. To say that its all bullshit in its vastness is being "thick". To say that millions of people have experienced nothing is just refusing to accept any other possibility. That is bad science.[/QUOTE] Eye witness reports have been proven to extremely unreliable. If someone believed in ghosts before their "witnessing", then they will probably force themselves to believe that what they saw was a ghost.
[QUOTE=Patriarch;35400770]Eye witness reports have been proven to extremely unreliable. If someone believed in ghosts before their "witnessing", then they will probably force themselves to believe that what they saw was a ghost.[/QUOTE] people aren't that fucking suggestable.
[QUOTE=lotusking;35402481]people aren't that fucking suggestable.[/QUOTE] Then explain why the people of North Korea cried and screamed when they heard their leader Kim Jong il died? Or why the holocaust happened?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35402573]Then explain why the people of North Korea cried and screamed when they heard their leader Kim Jong il died? Or why the holocaust happened?[/QUOTE] north koreans cried because they didnt want to get fucking shot to death. nazi: years of conditioning, propaganda.
[QUOTE=lotusking;35405054]north koreans cried because they didnt want to get fucking shot to death. nazi: years of conditioning, propaganda.[/QUOTE] Explain holocaust denial then.
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