[QUOTE=lotusking;35402481]people aren't that fucking suggestable.[/QUOTE]
Um, yes we are. First of all we are naturally born to accept pretty much anything we are told. It's a natural evolutionary mechanism that helps us survive when at a young age by believing anything our elders tell us. Ideas always remain in the subconscious and if you grow up being told by your relatives and friends that ufos exist then that can easily directly influence your perception on a subconscious level.
[QUOTE=lotusking;35405315]batshit insane people...?[/QUOTE]
Which is exactly the same as the people who state that ghosts exist because science can't prove them.
The same methodologies used by science to prove the holocaust actually happened is the same that is used to show that what is attributed to ghosts is actually natural.
[QUOTE=Lilyo;35405275]Um, yes we are. First of all we are naturally born to accept pretty much anything we are told. It's a natural evolutionary mechanism that helps us survive when at a young age by believing anything our elders tell us. [B]Ideas always remain in the subconscious and if you grow up being told by your relatives and friends that ufos exist then that can easily directly influence your perception on a subconscious level.[/B][/QUOTE]
So anyone that has ever seen a UFO has been taught that they exist by their relatives? Sure, it makes sense in a way. But I'm sure that the majority of UFO witnesses did not grow up thinking that UFOs exist.
I never grew up believing that UFOs were real. I just saw one and then I started believing. See how that works?
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35402573]Then explain why the people of North Korea cried and screamed when they heard their leader Kim Jong il died?
Or why the holocaust happened?[/QUOTE]
From what I can gather, the holocaust happened because Germany was in an extremely terrible situation. Germany lost pretty much everything after World War I, so I would think that some of them were just looking for something (or someone) to blame. Also, I'm pretty sure a good number of Germans didn't actually want to kill Jews or any other "less superior" race; they were probably just too scared to go against those in power that did, and not to mention the other Germans that actually were convinced that they were superior.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35412537]So anyone that has ever seen a UFO has been taught that they exist by their relatives? Sure, it makes sense in a way. But I'm sure that the majority of UFO witnesses did not grow up thinking that UFOs exist.
I never grew up believing that UFOs were real. I just saw one and then I started believing. See how that works?[/QUOTE]
Based on that logic, I could hallucinate something and then believe it exists contrary to all accumulated knowledge thus far.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35412607]Based on that logic, I could hallucinate something and then believe it exists contrary to all accumulated knowledge thus far.[/QUOTE]
people don't just fucking spontaneously hallucinate things, you're really grasping for straws here.
[QUOTE=lotusking;35413311]people don't just fucking spontaneously hallucinate things, you're really grasping for straws here.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun[/url]
[QUOTE=lotusking;35413311]people don't just fucking spontaneously hallucinate things, you're really grasping for straws here.[/QUOTE]
Yes, they do. And if it's not a hallucination it's an optical illusion. Or unconsciously reconstructing memories that differ from what actually happened. It takes 5 seconds to look up various explanations on Wikipedia, or find books that give detailed explanations on the matter.
when someone says something like "the TV turned on by itself several times" ...
go over to the TV and do some investigation. unplug it, check the electrical current, is it fluctuating? if the current is fine, open up the TV. figure out where exactly something is changing to turn the device on. etc. etc.
my point is, televisions aren't some sort of black box. if something weird is going on, you can investigate it all the way down to the individual components and the flow of electricity.
if you find a wire that is magically producing a current (and you're not in a strong enough magnetic field, etc.) THEN conclude that something supernatural is going on. but of course, you'll never get to that point - you're gonna see the TV turn on and think "HOLY SHIT GHOSTS"
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
same goes for other things. how come there are so many stories of "seeing" ghosts, but no one has ever gone up to the ghost and see it up close, or try to feel it, or record it with something other than a flip-phone-camera
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
and here's another idea. let's say you've found a "haunted building" and you're sure there are ghosts inside.
what happens if you call a demolition company and they turn the building into rubble? are the ghost gonna just be floating in mid-air in plain sight? surely, if ghost can move through solid matter, then demolishing the building shouldn't have any effect on them whatsoever?
or are they gonna disappear? but if they disappear, where did they go?
etc. etc.
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
if ghosts existed, wouldn't they do something more ... useful? i always hear stories about ghosts doing some insignificant bullshit like "rearranging the plates" - what the fuck? if they can interact with physical matter, surely they would do something more useful, like, for example, kill you?
[QUOTE=icantread49;35414501]when someone says something like "the TV turned on by itself several times" ...
go over to the TV and do some investigation. unplug it, check the electrical current, is it fluctuating? if the current is fine, open up the TV. figure out where exactly something is changing to turn the device on. etc. etc.
my point is, televisions aren't some sort of black box. if something weird is going on, you can investigate it all the way down to the individual components and the flow of electricity.
if you find a wire that is magically producing a current (and you're not in a strong enough magnetic field, etc.) THEN conclude that something supernatural is going on. but of course, you'll never get to that point - you're gonna see the TV turn on and think "HOLY SHIT GHOSTS"
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
same goes for other things. how come there are so many stories of "seeing" ghosts, but no one has ever gone up to the ghost and see it up close, or try to feel it, or record it with something other than a flip-phone-camera
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
and here's another idea. let's say you've found a "haunted building" and you're sure there are ghosts inside.
what happens if you call a demolition company and they turn the building into rubble? are the ghost gonna just be floating in mid-air in plain sight? surely, if ghost can move through solid matter, then demolishing the building shouldn't have any effect on them whatsoever?
or are they gonna disappear? but if they disappear, where did they go?
etc. etc.
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
if ghosts existed, wouldn't they do something more ... useful? i always hear stories about ghosts doing some insignificant bullshit like "rearranging the plates" - what the fuck? if they can interact with physical matter, surely they would do something more useful, like, for example, kill you?[/QUOTE]
Notice how things we once thought of as supernatural turn out to be normal, explainable phenomenon?
[QUOTE=Levithan;35416852]Notice how things we once thought of as supernatural turn out to be normal, explainable phenomenon?[/QUOTE]
Such as?
[QUOTE=halflife_123;35424781]Such as?[/QUOTE]
Lightning. The Sun. The Moon. Combustion. Earthquakes. Disease. Tsunamis. Hurricanes. Landslides. Avalanches. Rain. Snow. Wind. Waves. The fucking planet itself.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35424857]Lightning. The Sun. The Moon. Combustion. Earthquakes. Disease. Tsunamis. Hurricanes. Landslides. Avalanches. Rain. Snow. Wind. Waves. The fucking planet itself.[/QUOTE]
And now all of those things do have explanations because we are able to study them. We can't study ghosts. Perhaps scientists should sit around a ouija board and try to tell the spirits of the dead that they need to come out so they can be studied and that their existence can be verified? Heck even some nice friendly ghosts might be able to tell us about how they exist and save us the bother of trying to explain it!
[QUOTE=halflife_123;35425688]And now all of those things do have explanations because we are able to study them. We can't study ghosts.[/QUOTE]
If they can be observed and felt they can be studied. Turns out, all the times someone has actually felt or seen a ghost and it was documented, it turned out to be something else. You could go on and say that ghosts are above the physical world, but then you're dealing with something infallible, and that's generally not worth anyone's time because it can't be disproved.
[QUOTE=halflife_123;35425688]We can't study ghosts.[/QUOTE]
That's because they don't fucking exist. That's why.
[QUOTE=Chrille;35425766]If they can be observed and felt they can be studied. Turns out, all the times someone has actually felt or seen a ghost and it was documented, it turned out to be something else. You could go on and say that ghosts are above the physical world, but then you're dealing with something infallible, and that's generally not worth anyone's time because it can't be disproved.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35427597]That's because they don't fucking exist. That's why.[/QUOTE]
Both of which are points I was trying to make. There are many things in the universe we don't understand but at least we can have a go at studying them because we know they are there. You can't study something which conveniently doesn't appear when you want it to...
[QUOTE=halflife_123;35427706]You can't study something which conveniently doesn't appear when you want it to...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, ghosts tend to have a pretty heavy schedule; some "oohhhh"ing over here, some "BOO"s over there. There is just no way that any ghost would even have the time to be scientifically studied.
[QUOTE=halflife_123;35427706]Both of which are points I was trying to make. There are many things in the universe we don't understand but at least we can have a go at studying them because we know they are there. You can't study something which conveniently doesn't appear when you want it to...[/QUOTE]
Do ghosts have the ability to go through solid objects? (In your belief)
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35428088]Do ghosts have the ability to go through solid objects? (In your belief)[/QUOTE]
I don't really believe in ghosts, I think I'm just bad at internet sarcasm haha.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35427597]That's because they don't fucking exist. That's why.[/QUOTE]
great arguement, if they "don't fucking exist" whats the point of making a debate topic?
[QUOTE=halflife_123;35428122]I don't really believe in ghosts, I think I'm just bad at internet sarcasm haha.[/QUOTE]
Then stop posting in a debate thread.
[QUOTE=lotusking;35428123]great arguement.[/QUOTE]
It's a more solid [b]argument[/b] than all of the ones for ghosts combined.
If you want to prove ghosts. We need REAL, TANGIBLE, EVIDENCE. So far we have gotten diddly shit in terms of evidence for ghosts, whilst explaining many other phenomenon pertaining to ghosts and disproving many ghost cases.
Ghosts =/= real.
I personally believe ghosts don't exist. People want to understand things, that's why things like religion exist. People want an explanation of why we're here, how we got here and where we will go when we die. Same goes with ghosts, people are trying to assign meaning what they don't understand. The known is less scary than the unknown.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35428262]Then stop posting in a debate thread.
It's a more solid [b]argument[/b] than all of the ones for ghosts combined.
If you want to prove ghosts. We need REAL, TANGIBLE, EVIDENCE. So far we have gotten diddly shit in terms of evidence for ghosts, whilst explaining many other phenomenon pertaining to ghosts and disproving many ghost cases.
Ghosts =/= real.[/QUOTE]
fair enough, but whats the point of making a DEBATE thread if you're just going to dismiss everything as "ghosts arent real" "people just spontaneously hallucinate". there's no need for a debate thread if thats such a fact,
you leave no room open for other possibilities in your mind, it really seems like you're just making these threads so you can be validated by other people agreeing with you.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35428262]Then stop posting in a debate thread.[/QUOTE]
You want me to stop posting because I have the same opinion as you?
My Godfather's house is the home to a family of 3 murdered, thats why he got it for like 60% cheaper then the original price would have been. I sleep in the livingroom when I am over, and presisley around 2-4AM there is alwys a wimper, and footstep in the kitchen. Every night. I have heard door closeing when it was only him and i in the house, him being in the room connected to the living room, and the 4 rooms the go from the kitchen to the office area i have heard doors close in there. I was approched by a ghostly manish figure and he descended once I said to go away. He said when I was younger that they will stop screwing with you once u say stop, so when i was like 8 i said stop and I had no more personal encounters. Now, I loive on a farm, a WW2 Blimp Base to be specidic. I have seen men as if zombies walking in groups towards the house, my house, and I have seen men just stand in camo uniforms staring at the house early in mornings and late in evenings. When a grandfather had passed, before we knew aboiut it, I was seeing a black foggy figure at exactly 7:35 PM everyday for a week enter my brother's room, 9My brother is named afte the passewd Grandfather" and then the figure would float "I say float because he was floatingwalking behind the game table so I couldnt ee legs" down the stairs slowly. My brother had a dream that a well built man told him our grandfather had passed so we called our grandmother and sure as hell he did. The man was his bestfriend actually once Guy had described the man that approached him in his dream, Grandma confirmed his as his bestfriend Al. I ave had shit thrown at me in the middle of the night in my room at our old house, IUmma stop here. I can go on forever about expeirences I have had. They are real. Trust me.
[QUOTE=schley;35428708]My Godfather's house is the home to a family of 3 murdered, thats why he got it for like 60% cheaper then the original price would have been. I sleep in the livingroom when I am over, and presisley around 2-4AM there is alwys a wimper, and footstep in the kitchen. Every night. I have heard door closeing when it was only him and i in the house, him being in the room connected to the living room, and the 4 rooms the go from the kitchen to the office area i have heard doors close in there. I was approched by a ghostly manish figure and he descended once I said to go away. He said when I was younger that they will stop screwing with you once u say stop, so when i was like 8 i said stop and I had no more personal encounters. Now, I loive on a farm, a WW2 Blimp Base to be specidic. I have seen men as if zombies walking in groups towards the house, my house, and I have seen men just stand in camo uniforms staring at the house early in mornings and late in evenings. When a grandfather had passed, before we knew aboiut it, I was seeing a black foggy figure at exactly 7:35 PM everyday for a week enter my brother's room, 9My brother is named afte the passewd Grandfather" and then the figure would float "I say float because he was floatingwalking behind the game table so I couldnt ee legs" down the stairs slowly. My brother had a dream that a well built man told him our grandfather had passed so we called our grandmother and sure as hell he did. The man was his bestfriend actually once Guy had described the man that approached him in his dream, Grandma confirmed his as his bestfriend Al. I ave had shit thrown at me in the middle of the night in my room at our old house, IUmma stop here. I can go on forever about expeirences I have had. They are real. Trust me.[/QUOTE]
I am really tempted to post about a skeleton popping out, but I reckon Mass Debate is not the place for this.
[QUOTE=schley;35428708]My Godfather's house is the home to a family of 3 murdered, thats why he got it for like 60% cheaper then the original price would have been. I sleep in the livingroom when I am over, and presisley around 2-4AM there is alwys a wimper, and footstep in the kitchen. Every night. I have heard door closeing when it was only him and i in the house, him being in the room connected to the living room, and the 4 rooms the go from the kitchen to the office area i have heard doors close in there. I was approched by a ghostly manish figure and he descended once I said to go away. He said when I was younger that they will stop screwing with you once u say stop, so when i was like 8 i said stop and I had no more personal encounters. Now, I loive on a farm, a WW2 Blimp Base to be specidic. I have seen men as if zombies walking in groups towards the house, my house, and I have seen men just stand in camo uniforms staring at the house early in mornings and late in evenings. When a grandfather had passed, before we knew aboiut it, I was seeing a black foggy figure at exactly 7:35 PM everyday for a week enter my brother's room, 9My brother is named afte the passewd Grandfather" and then the figure would float "I say float because he was floatingwalking behind the game table so I couldnt ee legs" down the stairs slowly. My brother had a dream that a well built man told him our grandfather had passed so we called our grandmother and sure as hell he did. The man was his bestfriend actually once Guy had described the man that approached him in his dream, Grandma confirmed his as his bestfriend Al. I ave had shit thrown at me in the middle of the night in my room at our old house, IUmma stop here. I can go on forever about expeirences I have had. They are real. Trust me.[/QUOTE]
Are you even trying to make a post? I can barely read this unformatted pile of rubbish chock full of spelling and grammar errors.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35429232]Are you even trying to make a post? I can barely read this unformatted pile of rubbish chock full of spelling and grammar errors.[/QUOTE]
hi sobotnik can atleast try to respond to the points i raised earlier???
[QUOTE=halflife_123;35428558]You want me to stop posting because I have the same opinion as you?[/QUOTE]
No, because you haven't been debating. Whenever you have the same opinion or not is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35430575]No, because you haven't been debating. Whenever you have the same opinion or not is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://facepunch.com/threads/1173361?p=35428381&viewfull=1#post35428381[/url]
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