When's a man not a man; when's a woman not a woman
171 replies, posted
Are you high?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;30928784]Gender is a social concept.[/QUOTE]
Not entirely. Although neural plasticity and genesis may result in changes incurred on the brain from the environment, underlying constants do exist from which a male/female develops.
[editline]7th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Skelmech;30959819]You don't have to hide my name out of respect, though I appreciate it.
Unless you meant shana
[editline]Hi[/editline]
Hi all of you. My name is Lily and i'm an MtF Transgirl. Why does this concept seem to scare you all so much? Because of organs? i'll give you this, no matter what I or any tgirl does, we will always be biologically male. But that is the ONLY aspect in which we are male.
And before you all go spouting the bullshit about sex and gender please get educated on the subject of which you continue to condemn. Here, i'll even give you some useful links to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder"]Gender Identity Disorder[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex"]Sex,[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender"]Gender[/URL] respectively. Not that any of you will take the time to read them.
But what do I know? I'm just one of those weird dudes who plans on "destroying" and "mutilating" the body she didn't even get to pick, right?[/QUOTE]
Biologically male? Apologies, but I disagree - biological males don't have a greater quantity of feminine traits that can be compared against their masculine counterparts to create the image of a female. Sure, they may have some feminine traits due to some difference from the default male template, but they don't look like women; so ultimately, if it looks like a woman to you, it's a woman and vice versa. XY and XX don't dictate sex -- if they did, they wouldn't attain their alternate psychological, physiological and anatomical differences under some circumstance(s).
ITT: Close-minded pricks everywhere.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;30957783]Jesus fuck, it's 2011 not 1511, stop being bigot pricks
"fuk dis social crap, if pen0r then man if vag then woomun, eez simple, y u no understand? xDxD"
The world doesn't work that way you insolent fucks, not everyone is happy with who they were born as.[/QUOTE]
It's a little ironic considering that in some historical societies they were looked up to (e.g. transsexual females as having some superior overlook due to a potential ability to view the environment from both, a male and female perspective).
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#History[/URL]
[QUOTE=Skelmech;30959819]You don't have to hide my name out of respect, though I appreciate it.
Unless you meant shana
[editline]Hi[/editline]
Hi all of you. My name is Lily and i'm an MtF Transgirl. Why does this concept seem to scare you all so much? Because of organs? i'll give you this, no matter what I or any tgirl does, we will always be biologically male. But that is the ONLY aspect in which we are male.
And before you all go spouting the bullshit about sex and gender please get educated on the subject of which you continue to condemn. Here, i'll even give you some useful links to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder"]Gender Identity Disorder[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex"]Sex,[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender"]Gender[/URL] respectively. Not that any of you will take the time to read them.
But what do I know? I'm just one of those weird dudes who plans on "destroying" and "mutilating" the body she didn't even get to pick, right?[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't it be better just to wait until you can get proper surgery that will actually turn you into a woman rather than just cosmetically?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;30964070]Wouldn't it be better just to wait until you can get proper surgery that will actually turn you into a woman rather than just cosmetically?[/QUOTE]
If that isn't accomplished within a reasonable amount of time in their lifetime they'll only die disappointed.
When it's a jar!
oh, wait..
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;30964070]Wouldn't it be better just to wait until you can get proper surgery that will actually turn you into a woman rather than just cosmetically?[/QUOTE]
Not every TGirl wants to have the "dick chopping" surgery tbh. I know I dont simply because I don't think the end result is good enough to hurt a vital organ for it.
Would I rather not have that vital organ? Of course, but i'm not going to hurt what i already have if it cant help.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;30962488]
Biologically male? Apologies, but I disagree - biological males don't have a greater quantity of feminine traits that can be compared against their masculine counterparts to create the image of a female. Sure, they may have some feminine traits due to some difference from the default male template, but they don't look like women; so ultimately, if it looks like a woman to you, it's a woman and vice versa. XY and XX don't dictate sex -- if they did, they wouldn't attain their alternate psychological, physiological and anatomical differences under some circumstance(s).[/QUOTE]
Not every TGirl is the picture of a feminine XY male. I've got broad shoulders and somewhat big hands. What's in our pants doesn't define our GENDER but it does define out biological SEX. Also, most Trans people go through a hormonal regiment to give them those feminine traits. Almost none of us are born that way.
Sex = Physically what you are.
Gender = What you perceive yourself to be.
Can't beleive people still think sex=gender.
Now fully aware most Facepunchers are still in middleschool :ohdear:
[editline]7th July 2011[/editline]
Wow you take away my favorite emoticon
:ohdear: is gone?!
DAMMIT GARRY :argh:
[editline] fuck [/editline]
:argh: too? I what the hell Garry :c
[QUOTE=Skelmech;30974283]:ohdear: is gone?!
DAMMIT GARRY :argh:
[editline] fuck [/editline]
:argh: too? I what the hell Garry :c[/QUOTE]
legitimate question here
is wanting be a different gender than what sex you are caused by a hormonal deficiency or what
[QUOTE=TBFundy;30974441]legitimate question hereis wanting be a different gender than what sex you are caused by a hormonal deficiency or what[/QUOTE] not in the least. The diagnosis for it (Gender Identity Disorder) states we are born with a gender identity and the identity you're born with doesn't have to match your sex. We use the term "cisgender" for people born with a matching gender identity and sex, and and "transgender" for people who are born with a gender identity opposite of their sex. Sometimes people are born with a gender identity that's neither male nor female. We call them "genderqueer" or "gender fluid". A good example of someone like is Zianna Jones on youtube. Though she presents mostly feminine.
[editline] fuck [/editline]
Quite a few people in this thread.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;30974760]not in the least. The diagnosis for it (Gender Identity Disorder) states we are born with a gender identity and the identity you're born with doesn't have to match your sex. We use the term "cisgender" for people born with a matching gender identity and sex, and and "transgender" for people who are born with a gender identity opposite of their sex. Sometimes people are born with a gender identity that's neither male nor female. We call them "genderqueer" or "gender fluid". A good example of someone like is Zianna Jones on youtube. Though she presents mostly feminine.
[editline] fuck [/editline]
Quite a few people in this thread.[/QUOTE]
yeah I understand I asked if it was caused by a hormonal deficiency
[QUOTE=TBFundy;30975512]yeah I understand I asked if it was caused by a hormonal deficiency[/QUOTE]
There's really no identified cause for it, but one theory is that it is caused by hormone levels in utero.
[QUOTE=Herb;30975592]There's really no identified cause for it, but one theory is that it is caused by hormone levels in utero.[/QUOTE] Basicially this
Fuck yeah, Lily.
[QUOTE=TBFundy;30975512]yeah I understand I asked if it was caused by a hormonal deficiency[/QUOTE]
There is no single thing that causes it, and that's pretty much the only thing that scientists can agree on
[editline]7th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Skelmech;30959819]
But what do I know? I'm just one of those weird dudes who plans on "destroying" and "mutilating" the body she didn't even get to pick, right?[/QUOTE]
I don't think most Facepunchers "against" it really mean any malice, they're just young and afraid of things that don't fit into the worldview that their parents gave them
[QUOTE=Skelmech;30976254]Yes? [img]http://d2k5.com/emot/SA/emot-3.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
Just enjoying the trans-smackdown.
You may know me as Tankred :v:
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30976162]I don't think most Facepunchers "against" it really mean any malice, they're just young and afraid of things that don't fit into the worldview that their parents gave them[/QUOTE] I know. That's why I don't get too angry.
[editline]7th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30976299]Just enjoying the trans-smackdown.You may know me as Tankred :v:[/QUOTE] oh, hey tank :D
I believe that everything physiological is defined by our genetic predisposition. This includes the neurobiology of the human brain. The primal compulsion to breed being almost redundant in the diversity of human population of today, enables the evolution of sexual differences in opposition to what made us populate in the first place. The sexual preferences or even the identity of your own gender is the psychological manifestation of this fact.
Transexuality, homosexuality and such have been kind of grey area of social things expecially in the 19th century because expecially durring this time period personal freedom and the chain reaction of acceptance reasoned by the personal freedom has become a rapid movement which has kind of orginated from the racial freedom movement because of the ethical questions. But the cause isn't really just simple as "hey we can't do this kind of thing to these people", because you got bunch of people who have their own personalities based on their memories and experience in life based on the very basic instincts and thus everyone kind of has their own reason why they support the thought.
Anyway, I'd say homosexuality and transexuality are fetishes. You cant compare them to race since you never born "that way", If you are gay it's because the act turns you on. Now the reason why transexuality isn't so accepted in our society is the logical reasoning which makes homosexuality bit more accepted: Love. In transexuality there's no love, If there's love its not really that much part of being transexual. It's rather the fact that your partner or yourself would prefer you in a transexual way but this ones kind of personal since there's not really one kind of transexuals.
However in most of the cases it's a thought loop where you orginally just admire something, Usually sexually. So it's not so much about dressing in miniskirts and being cute and femine but rather getting throatfucked and overall being the sub, but not really prefering gaysex. The rest kind of becomes as byproduct of all this.
Now with this all "thinking" i'd like to bring up a point, The point what i'm talking about is personal freedom. You are totally free to do what you want but you shouldn't force it in society, Because this is a wrong approach to things. Basically the situation where we are right now is ideal in the terms of personal freedom. You are able to choose weither or if you do certain things but you're also able to choose not to prefer certain things. Now this "i want rights too" piggyback riding has gone quite far from extremist feminist overall movement always to something such as pedophiles comparing themselves and their actions to homosexuality.
Now i'm not going to start talking about the law because it's quite obvious that if you cannot do a job well enough you're getting paid less or if you're molesting kids you're going into jail. and i'm also not going to start explaining why its wrong to molest kids even though they might in some cases say "yes" if they're asked about if they love their 50 year old bed buddy. Anyway, Personal freedom does not equal social acceptance. And i think this is the main problem. In my opinion its the very root of many problems. People seem to be thinking that it does, and because of this we got to accept everything. No. No we dont. Its everyones personal freedom to choose weither or not they like certain kind of people. You can cut your dick in half everynight and stich it back in the morning if you want, But i and everyone else have the right to choose not to be exposed to this kind of crap, and not like it, not approve it in anyway. Or vise versa.
No one said you had to approve or like it, but rather let us live our lives the way we choose without being chastised do it. Yes there are transvestites who dress up and jerk off but most transsexuals don't do it for a fetish reason, we do it to feel and be treated like we do on the inside
[QUOTE=Skelmech;30977123]we do it to feel and be treated like we do on the inside[/QUOTE]
Okay, yeah sure.
So, You're a tranny. But do you realize that you're treated quite equally and as you wish considering that you're probably a male dressing and acting as a female? I don't really know nor understand how much more you can be treated equally or as you wish in the limitations of personal freedom?
[QUOTE=papu2;30977707]Okay, yeah sure.So, You're a tranny. But do you realize that you're treated quite equally and as you wish considering that you're probably a male dressing and acting as a female? I don't really know nor understand how much more you can be treated equally or as you wish in the limitations of personal freedom?[/QUOTE]If you pass as female then you'd be treated like one, or vice versa for transmen. That the end goal of "dressing up" like you're opposite sex. And for future reference: the term tranny is a slur and incredibly offensive.
You also need to remember that since preferances vary it's quite hard to treat one as i described, And that a weird appearance always causes atleast some akwardness.
I don't really undrestand what is so mystic about this whole setup?
Lets say you're a "fulltime transexual" and you go to a regular club, and engage in social activities which are considered normal in the limitations of transexuality of course. It's painfully obviously going to cause akwardness and people may be avoiding you because of their personal choices. It's going to be hard to engage in social activities if people don't like you. But that's their choice. And i for one think it's quite normal because most of the transexuals look horrible. And lets say even if you'd end up in a one night thing you're still looking for trouble by introducing the painfully obvious bulge of yours.
Think it this way, Lets say you're horribly ugly and overall considered unattractive, And you got a small deformed dick. The reactions are somewhat the same.
But here's another example, You're again the "fulltime transexual" and you go to a store. You can basically do things normally there. If it wouldn't be this way you'd be kicked out of the store or you wouldn't get any service.
Ok, so you're saying it's ok to treat someone badly if they're ugly/you don't agree with their lifestyle choices? I'm not even going to start with you.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;30978209]Ok, so you're saying it's ok to treat someone badly if they're ugly/you don't agree with their lifestyle choices? I'm not even going to start with you.[/QUOTE]
Comeon don't pretend you haven't ever been what people consider normal or you don't understand anything about getting any.
Well, Okay i don't know maybe you were dressed as girl or boy since the day 1 of your life. Who knows.
But ya, It's normal alright. I think you'd need to spend a bit time on studying whats considered normal and then looking into what you'd wish to be the standard. Maybe you should write it down somewhere so you'd be actually able to realisticly see what's different.
[QUOTE=papu2;30978309]Comeon don't pretend you haven't ever been what people consider normal or you don't understand anything about getting any.Well, Okay i don't know maybe you were dressed as girl or boy since the day 1 of your life. Who knows.But ya, It's normal alright. I think you'd need to spend a bit time on studying whats considered normal and then looking into what you'd wish to be the standard. Maybe you should write it down somewhere so you'd be actually able to realisticly see what's different.[/QUOTE] I never claimed to be normal, nor did I claim I've never gotten shit for being myself. But I shouldn't harassed for living my life the way I choose if it's not hurting anyone.
fucks sake equality isn't a hard concept.
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