• When's a man not a man; when's a woman not a woman
    171 replies, posted
Okay look. Think that you're this hot hot babe which you want to be, You're the prettiest girl in the country(This is the donkey kong country). Then you got this really akward, ugly and smelly nerd that has an arsenal of zits on his face and lvl 80 wow priests, and hes coming to you and trying to hit on you. And now lets make this bit more ridiculous, He starts talking about his wow priests and the raids he was doing last night and how some asshole got on the vent and started spamming shit. And no he wont quit nor change the topic, If you try to change the topic he goes back to it. What do you do? Now a normal person would be ATLEAST like "what the fuck is this shit?" But i don't know maybe you might find that super hot and interesting.
That is the worst analogy I've ever seen.
Then you tell him you don't want to talk about something only he plays/does? You don't make fun of him for doing something he likes too do unless your some kind of jock asshole
[QUOTE=papu2;30976661] Anyway, I'd say homosexuality and transexuality are fetishes.[/QUOTE] Well then it's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about. The rest of your post is even more gross but I assumed people stopped reading after this sentence
Gender is what you identify yourself as, and sex is what you are genetically.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;30978578]Then you tell him you don't want to talk about something only he plays/does? You don't make fun of him for doing something he likes too do unless your some kind of jock asshole[/QUOTE] You might aswell tell him to quit wow. I didn't say you got to make fun of him, But you'd want to avoid that kind of company because its going to fucking ruin your night or am i completely wrong or would the facepunchers find this exciting to discuss about games all night? I know i wouldn't, But then again if its a female and the place's empty i might aswell play along and see if i can get her put a paperbag on her head. I know i'm making bit of show out of this but it's so that you'd see what i mean.
I mean, I'm not going to harass people for being transsexual but I really can't help that it makes me uncomfortable
[QUOTE=papu2;30976661] Anyway, I'd say homosexuality and transexuality are fetishes.[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me. Just stop. seriously.
[QUOTE=ForTehWolf...2!;30933207]honestly I don't understand what all the hubbub is about, a mans a man when he has XY chromosomes and a women is a women when she has XX chromosomes, fuck all this social crap XD ~Fortehwolf ---------------------- [img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/maverick32/girls_sig.bmp[/img][/QUOTE] [img]http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu176/GodPlaysGibson/Picture1-1.png?t=1252348976[/img]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30978618]Well then it's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about. The rest of your post is even more gross but I assumed people stopped reading after this sentence[/QUOTE] You prefer one thing over another, You could do the regular thing but you wont because doing that one thing turns you on. Sticking your weewee in a woowoo probably wont kill you, Unless you're located in africa or havent heard about protection. It's not like you HAVE to do certain things. Unless someone's pointing a gun to your head, But you don't need to if you're dedicated to the cause. But that's your choice. If you see a guy and a gal walking down the street and the gal is wearing fullbody latex clothing, she has a collar and a gasmask. What'd you think? You know, could they have a thing for it or is it just lady gaga taking a walk? Oh wait. Anyway, What is this the god damn kindegarden? Can't we talk about things how they are and don't tell me you only expected "how brave thou are!" comments on this thread. Life ain't always easy, Maybe it's time for you to face the truth. I'm not here to flame or diss anybody, I'm just saying that you shouldn't expect unrealistic things. Sure its nice to see people having dreams but don't create utopic plans based on something that wont happen for atleast the next 100 years for obvious reasons which i already stated.
papu2, most good things in society start from dissatisfaction and discomfort towards the current state of affairs. You're suggesting that a person who doesn't [B]have[/B] to be hated or treated in an unjust way should nonetheless be treated like that because of the stuck Christian habits and the fact people love condemning whoever is not themselves or the people they love. Had you ever gotten to really know a single transsexual human and their story, your view of this matter would be a lot more accepting and empathetic. From what I see it's you who has a stuck view on gender and sexual roles, treating different kinds of love and body images as [B]fetishes[/B]. (transvestism neither IS always, but it can be a fetish. It can also be just expressing yourself and your thoughts in a visible way. Reflections from other people in the society build everyone's self image, and by letting them reflect onto yourself that "you look feminine, or at least give direct resemblance with your behavior, clothing and apparel to an average female", you feel a good bit better about it, and are able to feel more like the gender you're trying to represent yourself as, and vent some emotions most likely. It's really tough being understood as a male, when your brain, and trail of thought just don't harmonize with the way people normally treat males. It's a far out concept and you will hate it, but there are gender-fluid and bi-gender people too, who are very comfortable with both genders (doesn't mean bisexual, their love can be (from the biological point of view) straight, bi, pan or homo. Also getting turned on by "trannies" is a fetish, but being one is not a fetish. It might turn a small percentage of them on for starters, but that's most likely because they can't express their libido as their biological gender currently, and any gained resemblance towards their "own" gender makes them feel a lot better and more confident about it for starters, and this too is only initial observations, later they most likely will stop feeling that weird turn on as it's going to become a daily normal activity. Girls don't get turned on from putting on make-up either, why should girls who've had a sexual re-arrangement surgery?) You make me physically sick and I most certainly hope you get a higher level of understanding one day, because people who loudly denounce and condemn people who might have a low self-esteem due to self-image and love issues and are the top 1 reason to high suicide rates aren't super nice. Nobody should be guilt-tripped for love and wanting to live like they feel like. Stop saying "deal with it" when it's the majority who needs to deal with people loving and feeling different. It's a sickness, whether it's mental (feeling wrong) or biological (being born wrong) is up for debate but since modern society CAN help them out in their favour without taking anything away from "normals", why not? What is the society missing out on except depressed people, who are even more likely to try suicide than transitioning transpeople, due to obnoxious unjust hating like what you're doing (not saying you ARE doing it publicly, but you seem the kind that would not object to public demonstration of fear and angst against a specific sort of people)? Besides sounds like you've never seen a male-to-female transgender girl, and are assuming they all look like drag queens. Pro-tip: A good deal of them don't look any different from real girls, and there are bulkier/more manly looking girls than guys in existence. To be honest I can swear some of them are actually prettier than 99,99% of people stuck up monsters like you would classify as "real" girls. On top of this, if you don't only feel like hating, and want to try and understand our point and come across as an insightful conversationalist and a person who at least TRIES to understand instead of hating, I know this Finnish transvestite MtF female who wouldn't mind having a word with you some day, she's quite lax and most likely would be thrilled to try and help you see what's my point. [URL="http://irc-galleria.net/user/taskuraketti"]http://irc-galleria.net/user/taskuraketti.[/URL] She neither, btw at least in my books look like an awkward male in female clothing, she's quite ok if you ask me. Also, it's ok you're speaking out, because that way we can try changing your opinion or at least give you our opinion why and what is in our opinion wrong with it. It's totally fine, it takes a long long while before the society is ready to see this as a normal disease instead of a fashion trend or a fetish, like you put it into words. Peace man, ja reilu meininki etc. :3: Also I'm a "normal" guy in the sense you might think about it, been dating a girl for four years and still do but that doesn't make me stuck up about what I think about people around me, but that's most likely because I do have several transgender friends. I just feel like you might not even be attempting to understand, hence the tl;dr of various aspects of things I think you might not have previously considered. Try comprehending it or at least read it with thought at least once, I read your posts but didn't get a huge lot of strong arguments out of them so I didn't bother quoting and shooting them down. Besides I'm feeling knackered because I haven't slept more than few hours this week due to crippling pain in my arse. I know i'm making bit of show out of this but it's so that you'd see what i mean.
Is that who I think it is?
A man's not a man if he can't get it up A woman's not a woman if she leaves the kitchen
Bro ain't got no dick
[QUOTE=Drebin001;30949137]What's so difficult? If you have a dick, your a Man. If you have a Vagina, your a Woman. This will not change even if you do decide to change from a Man to a Women or a Women to a Man.[/QUOTE] People have problems facing the truth. Penis=man vagina=woman Thats a man down there. He was once a woman, who wanted to be a man. [IMG]http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/dickhead.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=papu2;30978309]Comeon don't pretend you haven't ever been what people consider normal or you don't understand anything about getting any.[/QUOTE]There really is no such thing as normal.
[QUOTE=DudeGuyKT;30982071]There really is no such thing as normal.[/QUOTE] You're wrong there. Though honestly, I think a lot of the problems with today's society arise from the fact that people have too much choice. Hurr hurr, I wanna be a woman, lets go get my penis cut off and the resulting area turned inside out. Sorry, but, thats not normal. You can want it all you want, but doing it just isn't natural, its fucking creepy.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;30982068]People have problems facing the truth. Penis=man vagina=woman [/QUOTE] Nobody is disagreeing with the fact a person born as a male is born as a male. Nobody is either disagreeing with the fact that you cannot yet have the functional reproductive organs of the other sex via surgery, but to people who undergo the severity of the mental stress and pain gender dysphoria causes, it's the least of concern and they just want to get fixed and just about anything that gets them a slight bit closer to the real thing, helps a huge lot. They feel they're physically sick, and have been so from birth. If they can be healed and are happy living a "delusional" life as you seem to imply, the real question is: [B]why are you bothered by their personal business?[/B] It's none of your concern what do they do to themselves, whereas people shunning them are being hurtful, childish and ignorant and only cause ruckus like this and create a more inflammatory and scary world. I admit I am an idealist. But I don't see other people's happiness as something that's away from mine. It baffles me to see others so upset just because the only argument they seem to have is "but they aren't pretty and they don't fit in". Well guess why the fuck they won't fit in? You can take a look at the answer, it's right there in the mirror.
[QUOTE=Karjanainen;30982320]Nobody is disagreeing with the fact a person born as a male is born as a male. Nobody is either disagreeing with the fact that you cannot yet have the functional reproductive organs of the other sex via surgery, but to people who understand the severity of the mental stress and pain this causes, it's the least of concern and they just want to get fixed. They feel they're physically sick, and have been so from birth. If they can be healed and are happy living a "delusional" life as you seem to imply, the real question is: [B]why are you bothered by their personal business?[/B] It's none of your concern what do they do to themselves, whereas people shunning them are being hurtful, childish and ignorant and only cause ruckus like this and create a more inflammatory and scary world. I admit I am an idealist. But I don't see other people's happiness as something that's away from mine. It baffles me to see others so upset just because the only argument they seem to have is "but they aren't pretty and they don't fit in". Well guess why the fuck they won't fit in? You can take a look at the answer, it's right there in the mirror.[/QUOTE] No, I care because it shows how much the human race as a whole is degrading. Every day now you see people losing more and more self control and responsibility for one's own actions. I mean, seriously. You can't come to terms with yourself as a male or female human being so you get yourself changed into a pseudo version of the opposite sex? Im sorry, but that just sounds like you're a ridiculously big asshole for not even being able to deal with your OWN body. If you can't control that then your just an emotionally unstable reckless fuck.
[QUOTE=Karjanainen;30980325]papu2, most blah blah[/QUOTE] "Dr you're playing god! Don't do it!" *lightning* "WRAARRRR I WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEENND ACCEPT ME ON FACEBOOK" "OH GO-" Wait what happened to the whole frankenstein's monster meets the angry drunk redneck facist christian townsmen situation? Also i think you might be getting on a bit too personal level with this thing.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;30982422]your just an emotionally unstable reckless fuck.[/QUOTE] You would be surprised how happy some transpeople are. They're energetic and positive, because they have the balls to represent themselves how they feel like, and they honestly feel like they're expressing themselves and feeling they can finally accept their condition and do whatever they want about it. Life's a gift, why not take most out of it? Gender dysphoria does come with a huge percentile of people being depressed and self-destructive, but that doesn't mean they're all completely insane, and if you had the empathy to see why they do that to themselves, you would feel pity instead of disgust and hate. Also, you seem to imply the society will somehow collapse if the two three percent of transpeople actually act out and change their socially and visibly perceived gender. You might have a very negative image on them because the current society doesn't give them a chance to be themselves, over half of transgendered job applicants are turned down, and a huge lot gets fired just because they're trans. They would be nowhere near as miserable and they'd be totally functional members of the society if they were given a chance instead of everyone normal being emotionally inept reckless fucks who think they have all the rights in the world to tell other people what to do. Also, the human race isn't going to extinguish any time soon if that's what you're scared of, I'm sure the vast amount of population will remain straight and continue overpopulating a planet to it's knees. If anything, accepting homosexuals and transgender people must be a natural reaction to overpopulation. At least I'm proud that I'm not going to add myself to the gene pool anymore, even though I'm quite saddened by people like you who do, especially since you seem so hell bent on being disgusted by people with a very difficult disease. I know it's a huge ad hominem, but almost resembles me of one guy who burned a good lot of jews.. [editline]8th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=papu2;30982632] Wait what happened to the whole frankenstein's monster meets the angry drunk redneck facist christian townsmen situation?[/QUOTE] Unfortunately nothing, the pitchforks and torches and angry hicks still exist. But I'm optimistic and believe one day they'll pick up a book or two on psychology, philosophy and common sense and think for a second before blurting an un-educated and inflammatory opinion. I see your point, but it's a terrible point in my opinion, and we as a society should not conform to people being violent towards minorities, let alone condone the said violence ourselves. You don't have to talk to her, I just think you're disregarding the fact that you're personally attacking a huge lot of people with your blanket insults. People are miserable because you people keep putting them down, not because they're weird. PS. She's not going to attack you either because she loves to talk about this stuff, I just thought that people who seem so scared of transpeople might have a huge lot of unanswered questions that should be dealt with. She most likely knows what you're going through, having been a skinhead and a horrible homophobe herself earlier.
Basically all of everything above poster is saying
[QUOTE=Karjanainen;30982644]You would be surprised how happy some transpeople are. They're energetic and positive, because they have the balls to represent themselves how they feel like, and they honestly feel like they're expressing themselves and feeling they can finally accept their condition and do whatever they want about it. Life's a gift, why not take most out of it? Gender dysphoria does come with a huge percentile of people being depressed and self-destructive, but that doesn't mean they're all completely insane, and if you had the empathy to see why they do that to themselves, you would feel pity instead of disgust and hate. Also, you seem to imply the society will somehow collapse if the two three percent of transpeople actually act out and change their socially and visibly perceived gender. You might have a very negative image on them because the current society doesn't give them a chance to be themselves, over half of transgendered job applicants are turned down, and a huge lot gets fired just because they're trans. They would be nowhere near as miserable and they'd be totally functional members of the society if they were given a chance instead of everyone normal being emotionally inept reckless fucks who think they have all the rights in the world to tell other people what to do. Also, the human race isn't going to extinguish any time soon if that's what you're scared of, I'm sure the vast amount of population will remain straight and continue overpopulating a planet to it's knees. If anything, accepting homosexuals and transgender people must be a natural reaction to overpopulation. At least I'm proud that I'm not going to add myself to the gene pool anymore, even though I'm quite saddened by people like you who do, especially since you seem so hell bent on being disgusted by people with a very difficult disease. I know it's a huge ad hominem, but almost resembles me of one guy who burned a good lot of jews.. [editline]8th July 2011[/editline] Unfortunately nothing, the pitchforks and torches and angry hicks still exist. But I'm optimistic and believe one day they'll pick up a book or two on psychology, philosophy and common sense and think for a second before blurting an un-educated and inflammatory opinion. I see your point, but it's a terrible point in my opinion, and we as a society should not conform to people being violent towards minorities, let alone condone the said violence ourselves. You don't have to talk to her, I just think you're disregarding the fact that you're personally attacking a huge lot of people with your blanket insults. People are miserable because you people keep putting them down, not because they're weird.[/QUOTE] You know what people used to be able to do? They used to be able to deal with a single fucking problem, now the people we see everyday are spineless pansies, its disgusting how easily people give in, and how little they try.
If anything I think it's amazing how someone has the courage to chop their dick off, slit a hole to replace it and be happy with it. Now THAT takes some serious backbone in my books. I applaud and I'm jealous of the courage of post-operational females I've met. I wouldn't ever do it myself because of the said dysfunctional organs even if I did have GID, but I still think it's very brave and inspirational how someone has the ability to change themselves so much. [QUOTE=Jetblack357;30982761]You know what people used to be able to do? They used to be able to deal with a single fucking problem, now the people we see everyday are spineless pansies, its disgusting how easily people give in, and how little they try.[/QUOTE] And it sounds more like there's something personal in yourself that you're bitter and frustrated about that you don't even dare fantasizing of changing. It might not be sex or gender related, but you just seem like one of the spineless twats who just bitch and moan because they want to be total assholes about how they feel lonely, like they never accomplish anything or aren't expressing themselves. I'm sorry to sound so mean but the hurt dog usually barks the loudest. I was like that until I got 20, then I did shit I actually loved and now I'm in the top of the world. Give life a try and stop worrying about other people, they worry about themselves enough. Also, spineless pansies? Having been to the military, about nine out of ten loud, obnoxiously hetero males with serious self-esteem issues never got shit done, lied as much as they could just to get out of doing crap, were in shit shape and couldn't run half of my 3250 meters in Cooper's with their crappy smoke infested lungs and bulging useless mass, whereas I was a honest and capable soldier who kept their mouth shut like a private should. On top of this studying in an university with decent grades and having worked in a solid job with numerous clients and subordinates, paying decent taxes and being a reliable and good boyfriend/friend to everyone around me, I would not go as far as call myself spineless even though I am fully capable of the very scary and detrimental-to-the-society concept of empathy. What do you do, in the other hand? Bitch at people who are having problems already. You must be so proud of yourself, dealing with yourself and acting it out on everyone around you. Now that's healthy and not detrimental to the society at all!
[QUOTE=Karjanainen;30982829]If anything I think it's amazing how someone has the courage to chop their dick off, slit a hole to replace it and be happy with it. Now THAT takes some serious backbone in my books. I applaud and I'm jealous of the courage of post-operational females I've met. I wouldn't ever do it myself because of the said dysfunctional organs, but I still think it's very brave. And it sounds more like there's something personal in yourself that you're bitter and frustrated about that you don't even dare fantasizing of changing. It might not be sex or gender related, but you just seem like one of the spineless twats who just bitch and moan to be blunt. I'm sorry to sound so mean but the hurt dog usually barks the loudest.[/QUOTE] Im not really hurt, I just find it insane that people do this to themselves. Like I said before, people can't learn to deal with it.
Why can't everyone just be and everyone else just let them be. I don't understand why everyone has to be this or that, and can't just be themselves. I also don't understand why people get all up in other peoples' shit when they're not hurting anyone. I don't see why we need to have gay, straight, bi, trans, etc, when we could all just be us. If you want to be a girl, that's fine, be yourself. If you like dudes or chicks, who cares, be yourself. Everybody puts way too much fucking value on what words you call yourself.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;30982843]people can't learn to deal with it.[/QUOTE] As it seems, neither can you. This thread doesn't have much to offer you then, and I suggest you stop making further of an ass out of yourself. I'm not the one preaching bitterness and intolerance here, you can have your opinion but if it has the chance of hurting other people, I suggest you think twice before saying it in the people's face who need all the help they could get, no matter what solution they pick. Also, I believe it's the oh so beloved and normal society that's causing all of this "not dealing with shit" and mental issues. Stuff doesn't appear from nothing, and it started at some point from completely "normal" and "healthy" people, now it's like "this". Blame the society, not the problem.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;30982068]People have problems facing the truth. Penis=man vagina=woman Thats a man down there. He was once a woman, who wanted to be a man. [IMG]http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/dickhead.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] What the fack is that.
I believe that people should be treated like the gender they identify as. Live and let live.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;30982422]No, I care because it shows how much the human race as a whole is degrading. Every day now you see people losing more and more self control and responsibility for one's own actions. I mean, seriously. You can't come to terms with yourself as a male or female human being so you get yourself changed into a pseudo version of the opposite sex? Im sorry, but that just sounds like you're a ridiculously big asshole for not even being able to deal with your OWN body. If you can't control that then your just an emotionally unstable reckless fuck.[/QUOTE] Yeah that's right, insult people who are going through a lot and be a hypocrite. Bugger off already, would you? [QUOTE=papu2;30982632]"Dr you're playing god! Don't do it!" *lightning* "WRAARRRR I WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEENND ACCEPT ME ON FACEBOOK" "OH GO-" Wait what happened to the whole frankenstein's monster meets the angry drunk redneck facist christian townsmen situation? Also i think you might be getting on a bit too personal level with this thing.[/QUOTE] You too, leave.
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