Are you awake yet? - General

Are they praying at 2:10? Holy shit...

This is why I want to move to Australia. Nothing bad ever happens there, right?

If the world goes to shit and dollars become worthless, gold and silver will too. They're shiny metals, nothing more. The things people will pay for are practical things, like radios, water filters, engines, things like that.

Soon everybody buys gold, gold markets slow, people sell it and then the market is non-existent. It isn't some miracle remedy for the economy, and it certainly isn't and won't be as stable as the dollar.

[QUOTE=Olinaj;27878611]Soon everybody buys gold, gold markets slow, people sell it and then the market is non-existent. It isn't some miracle remedy for the economy, and it certainly isn't and[B] won't be as stable as the dollar.[/B][/QUOTE] What? This makes absolutely no sense. The value of the dollar changes every single day. It has never been stable.

[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27878092]If the world goes to shit and dollars become worthless, gold and silver will too. They're shiny metals, nothing more. The things people will pay for are practical things, like radios, water filters, engines, things like that.[/QUOTE] Gold and silver are ancient relics, right? Perhaps you'll change your mind when you realize what these shiny metals are used for, along with the rest of the precious metals. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Use_and_applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhenium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tellurium#Applications[/url] Modern society would not exist without utilization of precious metals. Before projecting opinion, make sure you back it up factually. Gold and silver are ideal currencies due to relative abundance after commercial/industrial usage, lack of reactivity and non-toxicity. There is a reason that they have been commodity currencies for thousands of years. With those facts out of the way, what will be used to pay for these practical things? Paper, cigarettes, sardines, seashells? The only point that gold and silver become worthless is when there is no food at all and a society devolves into every-man-for-himself. I don't see that happening except for rural, fringe regions. If that point is reached and society begins to rebuilt, the most viable true currency would again be gold, even if there are other intermediary commodity currencies. [QUOTE=Olinaj;27878611]Soon everybody buys gold, gold markets slow, people sell it and then the market is non-existent. It isn't some miracle remedy for the economy, and it certainly isn't and won't be as stable as the dollar.[/QUOTE] Your argument implies no demand, so I take it that you're arguing against the entirety of recorded history that gold will simply disappear. Even if it became possible to commercially manufacture gold, as with diamonds, the markets will shift over time instead of instantaneously. I suggest developing greater comprehension of how exchange and markets work before risking a further show of ignorance. Need I point out that the dollar has lost well over 90% of it's perceived 'value' since its inception barely 200 years ago, while gold has remained consistent for over 5,000 years? There is no fixing the Western economy, just slowing its decay. Gold will be a major component of any new monetary system. Due to this re-incorporation as money it may fluctuate moderately, but it will not drop as you suggest. These times are turbulent and transitionary. Stability is already rare and will become even scarcer. Gold is stable as a currency and is universally accepted.

[QUOTE=miscreanity;27880570]Gold and silver are ancient relics, right? Perhaps you'll change your mind when you realize what these shiny metals are used for, along with the rest of the precious metals. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Use_and_applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhenium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenium#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver#Applications[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tellurium#Applications[/url] Modern society would not exist without utilization of precious metals. Before projecting opinion, make sure you back it up factually. Gold and silver are ideal currencies due to relative abundance after commercial/industrial usage, lack of reactivity and non-toxicity. There is a reason that they have been commodity currencies for thousands of years. With those facts out of the way, what will be used to pay for these practical things? Paper, cigarettes, sardines, seashells? The only point that gold and silver become worthless is when there is no food at all and a society devolves into every-man-for-himself. I don't see that happening except for rural, fringe regions. If that point is reached and society begins to rebuilt, the most viable true currency would again be gold, even if there are other intermediary commodity currencies. Your argument implies no demand, so I take it that you're arguing against the entirety of recorded history that gold will simply disappear. Even if it became possible to commercially manufacture gold, as with diamonds, the markets will shift over time instead of instantaneously. I suggest developing greater comprehension of how exchange and markets work before risking a further show of ignorance. Need I point out that the dollar has lost well over 90% of it's perceived 'value' since its inception barely 200 years ago, while gold has remained consistent for over 5,000 years? There is no fixing the Western economy, just slowing its decay. Gold will be a major component of any new monetary system. Due to this re-incorporation as money it may fluctuate moderately, but it will not drop as you suggest. These times are turbulent and transitionary. Stability is already rare and will become even scarcer. Gold is stable as a currency and is universally accepted.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying gold is going to be completely useless. I'm just saying the price is going to drop immensely. If the world goes to shit, several gallons of fuel will be more more than some gold piece of jewelry.

[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27898039]I'm not saying gold is going to be completely useless. I'm just saying the price is going to drop immensely. If the world goes to shit, several gallons of fuel will be more more than some gold piece of jewelry.[/QUOTE] Without a steady supply of fuel, all equipment that runs on it will become dead weight. Fuel itself will become worthless, as even the best storage methods can only maintain it for about a year before it becomes too degraded for use in an engine. It can't even be used as a daily trade item anyway due to excessive weight and volume. What would you be able to barter for food if you had to travel? Do you have any useful skills that would be in demand wherever you go? Unless you have something that an established community will accept in trade, you will have to depend on charity and goodwill or your own wits. Hence, gold and silver. Both gold and silver dropped precipitously in January this year. That was the same action that occurred since 2008. Global markets outside of Western economies are acquiring any and all precious metals they can get their hands on, not to mention commodities in general. What occurred was a systematic flushing of confidence in gold and silver to as great a degree as possible. They've already bottomed and are rising. What is your reasoning that suggests gold's value will decrease? Let's continue... In 2008, gold fell almost 33% and silver dropped a bit more than 60%. For 2009, the largest gold correction was about 12% and silver was 23%. Last year, gold declined a maximum of 10% with silver down 22%. So far this year, gold is down about 8% and silver is only under by 16%. Even if gold were to fall to 1280 and silver to 25, the percentage corrections would only be 10% and 20%, respectively. The current drops are over-extended both with the amount of time they've lasted (a month of continuous downward movement is a very long time for the metals) and for all the issues surrounding the precious metals (shortages, gov't financial problems, currency concerns, etc). Also note that, for the past two years, the first several trading days of a new year (post-holiday and marking a new trading calendar for yearly highs and lows) mark a high which promptly declines to the yearly low within a month. Largest declines 2008: gold -33%; silver -60% 2009: gold -12%; silver -23% 2010: gold -10%; silver -22% 2011: gold -8%; silver -16% On the flip-side, the rises in the precious metals (from lowest point of the year following highest) have been nothing less than astonishing. Largest increases 2008: gold +30%; silver +28% 2009: gold +53%; silver +88% 2010: gold +37%; silver +109% 2011: ... These patterns occur over time spans far longer than most individuals' attention spans. Thus, when a price spike happens, they are caught unaware. Then when the price drops, they think the rise is all over. Hundreds of years of economic history must be studied to truly comprehend what will happen and why these commodities cannot be traded as bonds, equities or even most other commodities. The metals have persistently risen in [i]US dollar denomination[/i] since 2001 with no break and no sign of any reversal. Actually, [i]every[/i] currency has been falling relative to gold and silver. Gold would have to fall below USD$1,100/oz for there to be even a possibility that the trend were reversing. There isn't enough selling pressure to do that, but there's more than enough buying to push it to at least $2,000/oz in the near future. A range of $1,700 to $1,800 is easily possible by mid-May. All of the major media news outlets have flawed understandings of how these currencies operate, never having had any reason to doubt the paper currencies. Now, things are changing and talking heads are proclaiming absolutely ridiculous explanations. Weather is often blamed. They'll say that there was a giant winter storm, so the price of gold dropped... does that sound remotely reasonable to you? If anything, delayed production due to a storm in the face of increasing global demand would [i]increase[/i] the price, not decrease it. This is not the top, nor are we near it. This May will show highs that reach the inflation-adjusted 1980 peak. From there, prices will most likely continue higher. If you do not understand capital flows, you will have a difficult time understanding why gold will move higher. You must also recognize that gold is stable (due to its limited and relatively consistent supply) while paper currencies fluctuate around it. The dollar is a piece of paper which represents a claim on productive capacity. Gold is a rare substance which does not require confidence or reliance upon a third-party/counter-party, as it has its own uses and properties that make it valuable. Silver even more so. For a comparison of several major currencies to gold, take a look at this: [url]http://edegrootinsights.blogspot.com/2011/02/growing-acceptance-of-gold-as-worlds.html[/url]

God, that voice. Awake to sleepy in 10 seconds.

[QUOTE=miscreanity;27900847]Without a steady supply of fuel, all equipment that runs on it will become dead weight. Fuel itself will become worthless, as even the best storage methods can only maintain it for about a year before it becomes too degraded for use in an engine. It can't even be used as a daily trade item anyway due to excessive weight and volume. What would you be able to barter for food if you had to travel? Do you have any useful skills that would be in demand wherever you go? Unless you have something that an established community will accept in trade, you will have to depend on charity and goodwill or your own wits. Hence, gold and silver. Both gold and silver dropped precipitously in January this year. That was the same action that occurred since 2008. Global markets outside of Western economies are acquiring any and all precious metals they can get their hands on, not to mention commodities in general. What occurred was a systematic flushing of confidence in gold and silver to as great a degree as possible. They've already bottomed and are rising. What is your reasoning that suggests gold's value will decrease? Let's continue... In 2008, gold fell almost 33% and silver dropped a bit more than 60%. For 2009, the largest gold correction was about 12% and silver was 23%. Last year, gold declined a maximum of 10% with silver down 22%. So far this year, gold is down about 8% and silver is only under by 16%. Even if gold were to fall to 1280 and silver to 25, the percentage corrections would only be 10% and 20%, respectively. The current drops are over-extended both with the amount of time they've lasted (a month of continuous downward movement is a very long time for the metals) and for all the issues surrounding the precious metals (shortages, gov't financial problems, currency concerns, etc). Also note that, for the past two years, the first several trading days of a new year (post-holiday and marking a new trading calendar for yearly highs and lows) mark a high which promptly declines to the yearly low within a month. Largest declines 2008: gold -33%; silver -60% 2009: gold -12%; silver -23% 2010: gold -10%; silver -22% 2011: gold -8%; silver -16% On the flip-side, the rises in the precious metals (from lowest point of the year following highest) have been nothing less than astonishing. Largest increases 2008: gold +30%; silver +28% 2009: gold +53%; silver +88% 2010: gold +37%; silver +109% 2011: ... These patterns occur over time spans far longer than most individuals' attention spans. Thus, when a price spike happens, they are caught unaware. Then when the price drops, they think the rise is all over. Hundreds of years of economic history must be studied to truly comprehend what will happen and why these commodities cannot be traded as bonds, equities or even most other commodities. The metals have persistently risen in [i]US dollar denomination[/i] since 2001 with no break and no sign of any reversal. Actually, [i]every[/i] currency has been falling relative to gold and silver. Gold would have to fall below USD$1,100/oz for there to be even a possibility that the trend were reversing. There isn't enough selling pressure to do that, but there's more than enough buying to push it to at least $2,000/oz in the near future. A range of $1,700 to $1,800 is easily possible by mid-May. All of the major media news outlets have flawed understandings of how these currencies operate, never having had any reason to doubt the paper currencies. Now, things are changing and talking heads are proclaiming absolutely ridiculous explanations. Weather is often blamed. They'll say that there was a giant winter storm, so the price of gold dropped... does that sound remotely reasonable to you? If anything, delayed production due to a storm in the face of increasing global demand would [i]increase[/i] the price, not decrease it. This is not the top, nor are we near it. This May will show highs that reach the inflation-adjusted 1980 peak. From there, prices will most likely continue higher. If you do not understand capital flows, you will have a difficult time understanding why gold will move higher. You must also recognize that gold is stable (due to its limited and relatively consistent supply) while paper currencies fluctuate around it. The dollar is a piece of paper which represents a claim on productive capacity. Gold is a rare substance which does not require confidence or reliance upon a third-party/counter-party, as it has its own uses and properties that make it valuable. Silver even more so. For a comparison of several major currencies to gold, take a look at this: [url]http://edegrootinsights.blogspot.com/2011/02/growing-acceptance-of-gold-as-worlds.html[/url][/QUOTE] I'm not talking about regular circumstances, I'm talking about if the world goes to shit. Like fallout 3 shit. Like borderline humanity extinction shit. A whole brick of solid gold won't do shit for you if you're struggling to stay alive.

hoo boy I love me some end-of-days doombringer speeches [quote]Search for information on the topic of financial distress and you'll find plenty.[/quote]conspiracy theorists sure do love logical fallacies [quote]the information is presented on a silver platter[/quote][quote]Your magic crystal ball[/quote][quote]I'd rather be early than dead[/quote]lmfao are you kidding me please don't be this gullible facepunch to say the least everything you say is permeated with a sensationalist POV

[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27909896]I'm not talking about regular circumstances, I'm talking about if the world goes to shit. Like fallout 3 shit. Like borderline humanity extinction shit. A whole brick of solid gold won't do shit for you if you're struggling to stay alive.[/QUOTE] No shit. It didn't require a reply to this thread to point that out, nor much mental capacity. Figuring out what the best course of action in a realistic scenario (sans asteroid impact, alien invasion or nuclear apocalypse) will be the difference between complacent couch potatoes and those who live to make progress. So if you're expecting that, don't bother planning for anything. You can make the best use of yourself by getting out of the way or donating your corpse as mulch for those who will put in the effort to survive. All I'm postulating is that we're in for some rough times and those prepared for it will be that much stronger and able to achieve more. If you actually have something constructive to say, then by all means do so.

woah there bro what are you getting so defensive about

This video is hilarious. I don't even feel the need to explain why it's wrong. Take your tin foil hat off miscreanity.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27911212]This video is hilarious. I don't even feel the need to explain why it's wrong. Take your tin foil hat off miscreanity.[/QUOTE] Please do explain. I'd love to know what exceptional economic theory you're privy to.

[QUOTE=miscreanity;27910281]Figuring out what the best course of action in a realistic scenario (sans asteroid impact, [highlight]alien invasion[/highlight] or nuclear apocalypse)...[/QUOTE] I want you to explain why you believe this is a realistic scenario.

[QUOTE=Fhenexx;27927287]I want you to explain why you believe this is a realistic scenario.[/QUOTE] The meaning of [url=http://tfd.com/sans]sans[/url] is 'without' - so the list in parenthesis is the unrealistic, posed as extreme scenarios that could reduce humanity to base survival mode.

[QUOTE=miscreanity;27927459]The meaning of [url=http://tfd.com/sans]sans[/url] is 'without' - so the list in parenthesis is the unrealistic, posed as extreme scenarios that could reduce humanity to base survival mode.[/QUOTE] Guess I learned something new today.

I'm not worried, I can sustain my existence pretty long without the existence of money. I lived a semi homeless life between the ages of 11-19. I am 20 now and my mother passed away and had a fully paid off life insurance thing and left me 100k... I got plenty of gold if need be, mom collected jewelry, so... Yea... :love: [editline]7th February 2011[/editline] :love: you mom! You gave me life and happiness and you have got to be one of the best mothers in this universe I will cherish you and your teachings forever... Except the believe in god one... I'm agnostic... :saddowns:

[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27910819]woah there bro what are you getting so defensive about[/QUOTE] Apologies - you've been civil throughout. I thought I was replying to a post by Soda. Too many damn Bieber avatars and not enough time to explain economic concepts to him when he has nothing of substance to contribute.